Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 11:55AM
Hi All I thought I'd post some old and new pic from Pan Hot. Love to see and hear about peoples memories of Pan Hot Springs
Ray
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 11:56AM
more
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 11:57AM
and more
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:01PM
These are Felix Shure's drilling crew and their equipment drilling the first wells at Pan Hot Springs
Ray
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:02PM
.........
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:03PM
ect
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:04PM
and...
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:06PM
These wells are still producing artesian hot water.
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melvin, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:07PM
awesome!!
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:13PM
These photos are from Fred Ransom's collection, he allowed me to make copies. Felix was his uncle.
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:14PM
and...
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:16PM
This tank fed the resort and Hotel. Sat where the mormon church is now. !8 feet in the air
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:20PM
Last 2 for now. New pic shot last Monday sunrise. First one is the pond up by the highway
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:31PM
Interesting note: 1918 report listed water temps at 88 degrees. First testing by me in 1993( post 1992 earthquake) was 92 degrees. After new pipes and pumps were installed last summer temps rose to 94 degrees. Yesterday noted a temp surge to 96 degrees and then it came back down to 94.
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:33PM
Ok one more.
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Hooky Bobber, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:38PM
Thanks Ray for the history and hope you get it opened up I used to love swimming there. Good Luck pulling for you!
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:51PM
Thanks JerryB For those who didn't hear I let the locals swim the last two summers on the weekends just to let as many people know about Pan Hot Springs and my work to reopen the pools. We are in the permit process with County Planning department, and we were sucess full in geting a partnership with US Fish and Game and the CSD in developing a Conservation Habitat Plan for the Pan Hot Springs Meadow ,using the recycled water from the pools to help maintain hydrology for approx 40 acres of CSD property, and allow additional public access and recreation on the balance of the property. Included in that partnership is the planning for non-chemical treatment for the pools to maintain the original water quality and chemistry.
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PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:55PM
Here's another sunrise over the meadow that I liked.
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MIKE, Sun Feb 22 2009, 01:45PM
Did you go with smaller pools? I was a life Guard for the Pohills at PanHot for several years from about 78 through the 80's, and those shots look like the pool is much smaller.
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Deb Doodah, Sun Feb 22 2009, 02:05PM
For us newbies...where is Pan Hot Springs located.
And, can I come jump into the bath water while there is still snow on the ground?
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MIKE, Sun Feb 22 2009, 02:21PM
Head out like you were going to go to the desert towards Baldwin Lake on North shore. It is the last set of structures on the right side of the road just before Baldwin Lake.
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Luna, Sun Feb 22 2009, 03:05PM
Northshore, just east of Paradise, next to the church.
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©ammy, Sun Feb 22 2009, 08:53PM
Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing the photos and history!
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bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 08:15AM
Living in the West end I swam at Stillwells most of the time, and seldom got to Pan hot.
Later on a bunch of us were taking scuba diving classes from a local deputy. He was graciously loaned the pool for our use. It was in the winter and the inside pool was very nice and warm. once being maucho we decided to use the outside pool. I don't think any of us lasted more then a few seconds as it was probably about 50 dehrees.
For some reason I would get a rash from something in the water and one time scraped my foot and got an infection and couldn't walk the next day untill I got a shot from the doctor.
It was a very neat place and has a great history and I'm sure there are a lot of stories to tell.
I wish you the best in getting it going again. My son lives very close and I'm sure they will teach their daughter to swim in the pool.
And thanks to you and Fred for the pictures. I wish we could get him on here to share his stories.
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bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 08:24AM
The temperature went up after the landers/ big bear quakes. .
Right now there is an auful lot of shaking going on in the state. and in Alaska. I'm sure you will notice a connection as you follow it. Masybe even be able to predict a bit.
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Lalala, Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:10AM
BG, No BIG shakers, please and thank you
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PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:18AM
Mike: Not these are the original pools, we just cleaned them up. You'er probaly bigger now and the don't seem as big as they did then.
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PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:24AM
Debbie Doo? Pan Hot Springs is a 5 acre property adjacent east of the Mormon Church with 300 feet of frontage on State Highway 18 ( North Shore Drive) And no we are not allowing swimming now that we are in a permit stage and do not want to p#* off the power that be.
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bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:55AM
Lalala
I'm with you there. I used to enjoy them untill that morning and the following week. Now I don't enjoy them at all.
Our water in the park I am at now is 105 degrees. We sit right on top of a leg of the san andreas.
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PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:57AM
Bill's Grandson: Since we do not have temp reading right before the 92 quake we do not know if the temps went up because of that event. What we do know is that the artesian flow returned to it historical flow (1915/ 40 gpm: 1993/40 gpm)and that the artesian flow was not enough prior to the 92 quake, Pan Hot was pumping water to mainain temps in the pools. I have taken temps after all major aftershocks and quakes ie Hector, and the temps did not change (93 degrees). Because of information from testing of Pan Hot Springs by the USGS two yearts ago we know that the water from the springs is over 8,000 year old since it was last surface ground water and that it moves quickly through the mountain formation, and that it is heated by a magma source 2,000 feet below sea level. The San Bernardino's are a basalt formation( molten rock cooled below the surface and heaved through plate teutonics), and are not a volcanic formation. We also know that the Baldwin lake basin is over 2,000 feet deep with alluvim and the soils are about 700 feet deep at the site of Pan Hot Springs. We also know that wells a mile away are heated to 87 degrees at a depth 0f 700+ feet deep indicating significant spreading of the geothermal waters. These soils are saurated with cool ground water (55-57 degrees) and I believe the geothermal waters are cooling as they rise through the saturated soils and that because of tha shaking of the 92 event allowed a return to the historical flow allowed the heated water to resume its temps. And I belive that with the new pumping system that I installed this past summer ( increased flow to 145 gpm) allowed the thermal waters to move faster through the saturated soils reducing the contact with the ground water temps and thus showing higher temps than ever before.
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bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:02AM
I thought it was in the grizzly that the temp went up, but it could be just the flow sorry if I had it wrong
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bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:12AM
Great info.
I love geology and especialy of the Big Bear area.
I used to have a map that showed the different sediment layers in the valley learned mostly from the wells. It is very hard to imagine how much the area has changed over the centuries.
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PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:38AM
Bill's Grandson: Accuracy and Fact checking is not one of the Grizzly's forte. They still take about the 92 earthquake as the "Big Bear Quake" and the paper at that time stated that the epicenter was in Baldwin Lake, when infact it was centered at the approx. 4,000 foot level on the back side ( south facing) slope of Sugarloaf Mountain 6 miles deep and never surfaced faulted. It was on a previously infered but not disclosed fault line paralleling Big Bear valley in the Santa Anna Canyon. It was a slip strike quake which sent almost 80 percent of the force north into Big Bear valley. Because of the solid rock formations we suffered less that 10% damages to our evaluation ( 6 billion dollar value verses 60 million dollars damages) We are actually rated by the State of California Earthquake Authority the lowest hazard rating of a C1. In a conversation I had with Dr. Lucy Jones from USGS she told me that meeting with reporter that day after the "Big Bear Quake" that she told the assembled that the quake was epicentered 6.5 kilometers south south east of Big Bear Lake 6 miles deep near Seven Oaks, and never surfaced faulted, but that was too wordy for the newspaper editors and was thus dubbed the Big Bear Quake. Our local media was the worst in the reporting and have yet to fully state the USGS final report and have really done a disservice to the public.
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PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:47AM
Bill's Grandson: It has changed very little over the centuries, the alluvium is about 1 foot per hundred year's ;more in the flood plains. Our mountains are considered very young, 250 million years, Triassic I belive.
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bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:51AM
I think everyone who was here would tell you that it was on their porch which you think about it, it was becaause of the fepth. When the big one hit I had a full house at the restaurant. Everyone being woke up from Landers. It was easy to tell it had come from the SE toward bear mountain as that was where the "train" came from that hit the building.
My house was in sawmill canyon which had a surface crack at either that one over the next week. There were a few more in the valley. I wouldn't know if these would qualify as a rupture. I did notice something that I have never heard mentioned but there was a slide just North of South fork where probably about 1/4 acre slid downslope about 50 feet. That would be about directly above the place you mention I would guess. I heard stories of fishing jumping in the lake, and a "wave" going across baldwin which I believe was dry at the time.
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bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:57AM
I was talking a larger scale. As I understand it this is at least the second time around for this area to be built and torn down. To scoop out the alluvial and imagine the valley as a canyon and the enormity of some of the changes is very humbeling to humans who measure time in minutes and years when the earth thinks of a second as hundreds or thousands of years we have only been here a blink of an eye to the planet.
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PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 12:18PM
Bill's Grandson: I know it is hard to explain to people about the 92 Quake, when they know what they saw and felt. I was here also. Most of the damages were from poor construction, un-reinforced masonary, hillside construction and liquefaction. Did you know that the whole bottom of the valley is a liquefaction zone? The USGS report noted that there were reports of faulting at Pan Hot Spring, but they were in fact arcane strike marks resulting from liquefaction. Shock waves radiating through the soft soils leaving lines as the wave moved north across the valley. It was also noted that there were a number of rock falls in the Santa Anna Canyon, but no finding of surface rupturing.
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UBU, Mon Feb 23 2009, 12:56PM
Thanks guys, this is interesting.
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Radha, Mon Feb 23 2009, 01:34PM
This image seems to be from around the same time as yours.
PanHot, thanks for all of the time and effort you put into scanning and loading images. Your collection is wonderful.
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bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 01:36PM
The way it was shaking that morning I didn't think there would be anything left.
At the restaurant besides thegrill and fryers trying to go to the floor there was no damage.
At my home beside having floor to ceiling glass the only damage was my water heater trying to leave. It actualy made it about a foot.
Besides the western auto, emingers, and the grizzly/village printing office there was little structural damage. Several thousan fireplaces. I think more damage was done tearing down the fireplaces without unhooking from the building then the earthquake itself. several newer house showed they wern't built according to code.
But luckily no loss of life in the valley.
I am sure glad to have been there for it. But wouldn't want to go through it again.
Those who have google earth and haven't upgraded recently do so there is a great overlay that shows near real time earthquakes and you can see how Alaska and the aleutian chain are rocking and rolling with a volcano coming to life.
In california there is a lot going on to but the mamoth lakes area which has enormous potential is relativly quiet.
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Socalman, Mon Feb 23 2009, 03:48PM
My parents owned a place on Michael Ave., just south of North Shore Blvd. It had been built in 1938 and from what I saw there, there were no building codes enforced. My parents bought from the original builder in 1959. The man was a welder by trade. Most of the plumbing pipes were WELDED. About a month following the quake, we found out that the drain from our sink & bathtube had broken loose from the "main" bathroom drain when we went below the floor to check on the feasibility of adding a downstairs restroom. To our shock, we found a small "septic" pool had formed where the welded pipes had broken. Fortunately we were weekenders and it wasn't a horrible situation to fix!
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Socalman, Mon Feb 23 2009, 03:51PM
I would sometimes go over to Pan Hot when we got tired of the pool at the Peter Pan Club or when it was closed. (Had a little "after hours" swim once too. I'm sure it was a common practice for the locals!)
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Deb Doodah, Mon Feb 23 2009, 04:14PM
Thanks for all the info PanHot! and welcome to the site. I look forward to your opening so I can come and check it out. I promise I won't jump in while there is snow around it and until you get your permits.
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butterflyaway, Mon Feb 23 2009, 05:13PM
I remember once being accused of stealing water from Pan Hot Springs.... true story!
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MIKE, Mon Feb 23 2009, 05:50PM
I used to bring gallons jugs of it home for my grandma. She liked to drink it.
From the source not the pool
....
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MIKE, Mon Feb 23 2009, 05:55PM
Pan Hot Springs Lifeguard
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, Mon Feb 23 2009, 06:19PM
Mike how old are you and did you go to High School up here?
I think I went to pan hot springs once. I don't know why I didn't go more then that. I knew a guy who had his gym in the building. Thats when I was there working on my abs.
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MIKE, Mon Feb 23 2009, 07:02PM
I was about 18 there. Yes I used the Gym. Gary Pohill and Mr.P pretty much let me have the run of the place. I am currently 46 I taught swimming and lifeguarded at Pan Hot for about 10 to 12 years, from 1979. The guy from Bad Bear Sports use to guard there too, cant remember his name right now. (Rick?).
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, Mon Feb 23 2009, 07:09PM
I think Mike Delano owned the gym once? Or ran it. My sister Gina went to the high school up here. You might of been to young to remember her. She was the Mascot one year.
I don't swim. I don't know how to swim and I'm not willing to learn. Its a phobia.
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butterflyaway, Mon Feb 23 2009, 09:12PM
Mike, I wasn't talking about jug fulls I was talking truck fulls. BS and non truths come back to bite people.
Nice to see a bit of history tho'
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Around The Lake, Wed Feb 25 2009, 07:41PM
Ray please tell your kids I said hi as I use to teach them to ski a few years back.
PS if you need help with the pools just give me an e mail, not long ago if you remember I ran the pools for the YMCA as there CPO and installed the salt unit for the Star Gazers inn
Todd
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Luna, Wed Feb 25 2009, 07:55PM
I'm going to call BS on this one - it pegged the BS meter.
A talking truck, full or not...BS.
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Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 25 2009, 08:39PM
Wondered what the story has been with that place, been driving by it for years. Always seeing the steam coming off the pools on a cold morning. Sometimes the pools are empty and so are the ponds, then a new smaller pond with a fountain. Weren't you attempting to make an ice skating rink with the ponds? Or so the rumor is told...
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butterflyaway, Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:00PM
Luna, call BS all you want. We were trying to help and deal with them. Then the BS happened. We have never and would never cheat or steal from anyone. But we were accused in public. That's it. From that day on we quit referring business thata way....
It was one of those you make money, we make money situations. It ended quickly.
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butterflyaway, Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:15PM
Your a good neighbor talk travels fast. Your a liar and things can spread like wildfire. I have never spoken a bad word about them till now. Sometimes its best to say nothing. Had this business never said a thing neither would I have. But since they have, I must share my side. And as you all know I don't share much. But when something is wrong....then that's what it is....wrong!
I'm done. Nothing more needs to be said.
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Luna, Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:21PM
Uh, you missed the joke there about the talking truck.
S l o w d o w n ...
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butterflyaway, Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:27PM
Sorry. I did see that. Your right, I need to slow down. Touchy subjects get things rolling that have never came out before. Ok, I am done. Just don't get me started again. Talking trucks have mouths....
But mine has now shut up!
Thank you for chilling me out.
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Luna, Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:45PM
I'm sorry that you got upset! I hate that feeling from that kind of situation.
Sleep tight!
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PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:06AM
Butterflyaway: Im sorry,I have no idea what you are talking about. talking truck? my mother the car? just giving you a hard time.Did you have a deal to get water from pan hot spring before me? I had the control of the property since 1993 when I optioned the property and I have never had anyone try to take(steal) water, who didn't have my permission to take some water. Jug's or trucks.
I do sell water and have had several contracts over the last several years. So if you do need some water do not hesitate to call me @ 909.436.9092 ounces to acres
Benny: We have been scratching and digging out the property and figuring out the system(s) and there was; we found out, many different operations over the last 89 years. We have been repairing and testing and the system to see what temps we could maintain in the pools; so we are constantly filling and draining them, especially this last year, as we repaired over 2500 feet of pipes and we uncovered the original drain valves that were abandoned in the 50's and made repairs there and now we can drain 880 feet out in the meadow over 300,000 gallons in about 4 hours. The pond out on the highway was originally designed to be a de-clorination pond where we would pump the clorinated pool water and allow sunlight and aeration to break down the clorine to allow the disposal of the water back in the meadow. This has its own set of problems and I set out to find a chemical free system to remove bacteria contributed by the swimmer, out of the water. About the same time that I built the pond, I made a small ice skating rink down by the pools for my kids and their friends and they had a fun time that winter. So I have tried since then to freeze the pond so they could skate there if we could. Two years ago we had a late season freeze and the kids had a snow day and my son and daughter; Roy and Laurel, did skate on the pond and got their picture in the paper. We have only been able to skate one day last year when it got cold enough to freeze. The problem is that when we try to build up the ice the hot water melts it all. I do plan on using the pond for cycled water from the pools ( we need to move fresh heated water through the pools to maintain temps), and the original owners, applied for and received "patents" in 1919 for the construction on an system hand dug ditches to spread water east over and around the meadow. I have been using these surface drains for water disposial since 1993 and they are part of the Conservation Managenent Plan for the Pan Hot Springs Meadow, that I am a strategic partner with the CSD (the surrounding land owner and the US Fish and Game that will protect and maintain in perpituity. My contrubution is cycled pool and space heating water, using a chemical free system that will actually distribute "cleaner" water than what is coming up artesian.
Around the Lake: Roy n Laurel say Hi. Roy actually got hired by the Park District this year to teach skiing. Really Cool !
Thanks for the offer of help, and I might take you up on that. I was always curious about the sailine system that was permited at the Inn. Salt generated clorine still has a residue and disposal issues and I could not use one at Pan Hot Spring in the open system that we have proposed. I did envision initially a solar photovoltaic powered ultra-violet biocide, but there was no commercial use then and still in its infancy. So I looked at many different systems installed around the world, and found many types of ozone generating systems that we being used in muni water systems and commercial pools that appeared to not alter the chemistry in any way.
About the same time I ran in to a guy in one of our local hard ware stores and cornered him in the parking lot and make him talk to me. I had overheard him remark about "Disney" and something to that effect. I noticed a "large" gold Mickey mouse ring on one of his fingers and sized him up on how he was dressed and made my assupmtions and struck up a conversation.
I an a bold face oppurtunist.
He turned out to be the Senior Vice-President of Enviromental Policies of the Walt Disney Corporation working through their Imaginerring? arm. He was struck with the scope and benefit of my proposed master plan that I had developed.
Hiking and biking with equestrian trail around the meadow and several acre pond(s) for a maintained water supply for part of the North American Pacific Fly Way, which Baldwin Lake is part off. This would also provide some flood control for adjacent private lands and public lands ( Pan Hot property is above the 100 year flood zone (ele. 6711') and allow public acesses and recreation.
Turnes out Kim Murphy has been instrumental in the application of ozone systems dating back to the day of Marineland in Palos Verdes. All of Disneys water features throught the world use ozone to clean ther water ;no clorine.
Fast forward; and now Kim has retired , to Big Bear, and he is a retained consultant for Pan Hot Springs permit with Enviromental Health.
We just found out that we have a small amount of bromide in the mineral water, 4 thousanths of a mg per liter, and using ozone will convert the bromide to bromate which is a potential pollutant, even though the amount is so small and not a health issue, the apperarance and the chance that an accumulation could cause a problem that we have come full circle and are planning a ultral-violet system that will not alter the natural Ph and chemistry for the habitat hydological support for the Conservation Habitat Plan which is a core 40 acres in the main Pan Hot Springs Meadow.
I am forming a 501c non profit for the Friends of Pan Hot Springs, and there is plans to include volunteers for everthing from labor to docents, and a mentor program for Big Bear students that include awarding passes for the student and their families for improvement with attendance, tardies, citizenship and grades.
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bills grandson, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:24AM
I am really happy that you are providing all this info. I think the rash I received was probably from chlorine, and the infextion was caused by the always moist concrete at the inside pool alowing bacteria to grow. Plus the pool was only used by us at the time so I imagine it wasn't kept up as it normaly would have been. Again good luck
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PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:24AM
and a terrible speller...................
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PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:31AM
sorry for the terrible spelling, kinda stream of consiousness, and some spell ckecker; thank god for that or no one would understand me.
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bills grandson, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:43AM
I wouldn't worry about the spelling we are all guilty, and can figure out what is said. Did I get you right in saying these are basicly the same pools? in size and location?
If my memory serves me the fence around the outside pool is the same or very similar to the one that was there. but I could be wrong.
It is nice to see it being ebuilt and hope you can get it open soon. But I do miss the stones grazing their horses in the meadow and the cows that used to summer there
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PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 10:13AM
all new fence. I have some pic from the day of the quake out at pan hot .will scan them an post later. Yes, they are the original pools just repaired after a local contarctor illegally dumped asphalt in the pools and I busted them and had them remove it but they broke the tops when they drove their equipment up on the walls of the pools to remove the asphalt
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PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 10:21AM
both pools
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bills grandson, Thu Feb 26 2009, 10:38AM
looking good are you planning on an inside outside pool area as it was? As I remember them there was about a 4 inch pipe that connected the two
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PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 11:10AM
Yes, but the first phase would be just 2 outside pools and office bathroom and showers, decking and lounge chairs, and grassy areas.
Then a building later that would house the old indoor pool and a expanded mens and womens spa, with sport. ie racquetball, weightlifting, rockclimbing wall free ex studio.
There was a underwater 6" pipe that connected the 2 pools so the out door pool was geting the indoor pools wwater that probably was why the outdoor pool was always so much cooler that the indoor one. remember the indoor "building" was just sheet metal and courrigated metal over a stick frame with no insulation. The door to the outdoor pool was just a rolling barn type door that did not even come down to the ground. The pools appear never have been as hot as they are now.
However, there was a oldtimer who told me a story that the water was so hot way back when that they had to mix cold water so you could stand the temp. Anyone ever hear that story too. Can't confirm it at all . But I've alway belived that there was hotter water to be had and I once did find a old map from a retiring supervisior of the County's Flood control District that showed Baldwin Lake many flood year high's of1915,1935,1938,1969, and on the map was a clear notation pointing out Pan Hot springs "hot well" and a clear number of 119 degrees. A normal hot spring temps should increase 5 degrees for every 100 foot of depth anmd we do not have a normal site. Large 700 ft deep acquifer w/ a hot spring coming up in the middle of it. Our wells are only 100 feet deep and have 600 ft more till we hit rock formations so it is extremely possible that we 120+/- water at depth.
waterquality.ppt
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bills grandson, Thu Feb 26 2009, 11:22AM
plans soiund great I hope you plan on heating the buildings with the hot water.
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PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 11:49AM
We want to be off the grid as much as possible. Space heat and snow melt plus the heat for the pool and solar photo-voltaic to run the pumps
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Dave™, Thu Feb 26 2009, 11:51AM
Thanks for this thread! It is very interesting reading and I wish you the best!
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PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 03:08PM
Here's an interesting letter I received after I questioned the county about their position if there was an active earthquake in Big Bear Valley, specificly at Pan Hot Springs
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MIKE, Thu Feb 26 2009, 03:38PM
Do you plan on recreating the kiddy wall for the indoor pool? When I taught swimming there is was a real good safety zone for the very young ones.
I think the whole kiddy zone was no more than 2.5 to 3 feet deep.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 03:49PM
No kiddie wall saftey hazzard no submerged objects, plus the steps have to be changed too no intrusion into the swim area. we'll cut in new pop out steps to the side of the shallow end of each pool
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bills grandson, Thu Feb 26 2009, 04:16PM
I had forgotten about that wall. You guys are bringing back lots of memories. I can almost smell the place and hear the echos off the tin roof. and those ratty changing rooms.
good times
down here at the spa hotel besides the pool they have several large lounging jacuzzi's with different temperatures. usualy that is where the parents with kids usualy are. I think they may have a salt water. that is becoming the new "thing" for homes down here as well as water chillers
very busy place when temps hit 115 and reasonably priced.
you are going to save a bundle with the panels and heating. I think "true" geothermal energy is a very good form of green power
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butterflyaway, Thu Feb 26 2009, 07:00PM
I am so sorry PanHot no it was not before you, it was with you. Trying to deal with you and helping us both could have been a good thing. Then you accused us in a public place of "not truths" and tried to lock up our belongings behind your locked gates, It made you lose more than us. But that's ok. We know we are honest and will always be. That's what keeps us going stong. We will strive on honesty. Karma is what keeps the world going round and round.
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butterflyaway, Thu Feb 26 2009, 07:08PM
Just as a added note. I will not be responding on this subject any more. I said my peace as well as I can being a business owner and a moderator and I feel it is time my truck (with the mouth) and I shut up.
Sorry if I offended anyone from what they did not want to hear. And I thank the rest of you for letting me speak my peace.
Peace Out.....
Re: Pan Hot Springs
melvin, Thu Feb 26 2009, 07:17PM
so lemme get this right.. they put you in a hot pan and watch you spring out of it?
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butterflyaway, Thu Feb 26 2009, 07:47PM
Kind of....but they were hoping their spring would spung.
And if kind of just did just sprung in the opposite direction.
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PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:25PM
Butterflyaway: Now wait a minute, first you said that you were accused of stealing a truck load of water from Pan Hot Springs and now u accuse me of taking someone property?So which is it?
Sometimes the truth does come back to bite you in the a#@
The only people I had problems with was a old construction buddy who after loosing almost everything from substance abuse, showed up looking for work. I gave him some casual labor basically digging ditches. He showed up one day with his "girlfriend" who also wanted to work. After about a month they started to stay overnight in a shell of a trailer without my permission and had brought a s@#t load of trash and junk ( another mans treasure is another man"s junk) and had put it in the trailer. I told them they could not stay on the property and that they had to remove the junk from the trailer They were apparently homeless, and even though the agreed to not stay in the trailer, and agreed to remove their "possessions", they were still going in to the trailer after dark and leaving before I came out to the property( I caught them doing this) Next thing I know the police were called out to the property because they had beat each other up and they had fled. He showed up the next day and I told him I could not have this going on at my property and that I did not have any more work for them.The cops were looking for both of them. Then about a week later the police were again out to the property because they had come back to stay again without my permission. Apparently he had held her against her will the previous night in the trailer. ( there was a single locked gate on the property but no fencing, so you could just walk around it) He was caught and jailed, and I think sentenced for assault and kidnaping.I spent a couple of months trying to contacting family of the man so he could have their property but no one was interested in helping him now. So the junk was thrown away. Some months later the trailer was broken in to and a small amount of tools were stolen, and I filed a police report about it. Never did find out who had broken in.
I would still offer to help friends in need, but I am also a firm believer that you reap what you sow.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
melvin, Fri Feb 27 2009, 06:42AM
im sorry someone badmouthed you.. i hate that when it happens to me.. not good when someone lies about you in a small town
Re: Pan Hot Springs
KK, Fri Feb 27 2009, 09:41AM
Such intresting stuff!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Fri Feb 27 2009, 10:18AM
I'm sure there are many who do not know that San Bernardino has been heating many buildings with geothermal energy for at least 30 years and has a pipe that can be tapped into if it is in your area. with permisson and payment of course. Muck of the Hospitality lane area and more sits on a very dangerous liquifaction zone
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Feb 27 2009, 11:47AM
Bills Grandson: Your right about San Bernardino, some years back they drilled a new well downtown 1000 feet deep and it produces 190 degree temps. There is a mile pipeline for business down 5th street to tap into for geothermal apps. I found out about it when I looked at start up biz for acqua culture raising fresh water paniea's? shrimp using redevelopment fund and abandoned warehouse's off 5th street.
There used to be a hot springs resort where the Central City mall is now call Uribita springs that was very popular back in the 30-40's There was also a hotsprings resort up by Patton State Hospital call Harlem Hot Springs that had its own rail spur to take people from downtown San Bernardino up to the resort. Not to mention Arrowhead hot springs at the base of Waterman canyon. THe water from the spring's is also 190 degrees and there are steam cave on the property. Campus Cursade bought the property many uears ago and started to reopen the resort, but the moved their headquarters out of state, so they have tried to sell is a number of times. The story was that San Manuel stating that the hot springs were sacred to them and that the wish to acquire the property, but that they really wanted to move their casino's over to the 1500+ acre property from their exixting 650 acre reservation, and create new freeway exists from the 15 going right in to Waterman canyon, and that word leaked out before they made their offer and the price tag went up to over 25 million from only 5 million originally. They got mad and never made a offer for the property. A group now has a proposal before City of san Bernardino to annex the property into the city limits and develop a mixed use business and residential/resort project, but Im sure that has been put on the back burner with the state of the economy.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Feb 27 2009, 11:59AM
City Hall and the Police station and the hotel accross from the Carousel mall are all heated by the hot water, I don't know if the new federal buildings right there are using it too.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Fri Feb 27 2009, 12:18PM
San Bernardino was ver innovative with their use of geothermal and way ahead of it's time in the U.S.
here is a picture of the trolly that went to arrowhead springs. The arrowhead springs water was carried down from the springs in glass lined tank cars on the tracks.
The famous arrowhead was supposed to point to where the mormons were supposed to settle. They were told this in Utah but the leaders had already heard from trappers that the Arrowhead was there as well as a rich valley.
When the mormons first arrived they spent time up near devore before buying much of what is downtown San Bernardino building a fort and laying out the streets and building the town. Mormon towns can be recognized by wide streets and the A, B, C designations N to South and numbered streets East to west. They later added streets between and named them differently. They were later recalled but many stayed. It was at one time a jewel in Southern California.
Never heard of the Indians wanting the Springs but that would have been quite a deal then. I was so happy when they built the casino as they were a very poor tribe and really needed the money. I didn't like all the big black cars that were there from Nevada as it was being built though. I always thought it was amazing that the arrowhead (which used to be more destinct then it is now) pointed directly at the springs at it's base. My mother grew up in Colton on what is now property belongs to the high school one of her neighbors was Virgil Earp who was the first marshall in Colton. fresh from a rather remarkable stop in Arizona.
The Earps had grown up in the San Bernardino area before they went to Kansas
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Fri Feb 27 2009, 12:21PM
I don't know how extisevely it was used but there is a line running through that area. on cool evenings you could see the heat rise from various spots.
I don't know how well they have done pumping water from under the surface to help prevent damage from a severe eathquake. It has been a major concern for the area
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Feb 27 2009, 12:33PM
Here are the pics that I said I would post that were taken tha day of the quake on June 3 1992. If you note even thought the cinderblock walls and caretakers quarters fell over ( no steel or core pour) and the decking and coping has pulled away from the pools ( these were added in the 70's and were attached with only pencil dowl steel) the pools are actually intact.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Feb 27 2009, 01:00PM
Now here is a pic I took in August 1992 as I came out to Pan Hot Springs to look for the purported earthquake faulting and find out about what was happening with the spring itself. Rumor was that the spring was gone. What I found was no obvious soil faults and large pieces of asphalt with yellow stripes where the pools used to be; and the pipes out at the wells blown off and now spewing hot water in the air. Remember I said that before the quake that there was no artesian flowing water (rising to the surface under natural pressure), and they were using a submerged pump 80 feet deep in a 1982 well that McDougal drilled to move water into the pools.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 06:52AM
Wow Over a thousand views in just 6 days! I glad everyone finds the info interesting. Some great Native American stuff coming soon.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 07:23AM
What happened between 6:30 this morning to 7:20 the views jumped from 1003 to 2224? Whats up with that?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 07:24AM
2447?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Feb 28 2009, 08:50AM
panhot
I was wondering what kind of situations you faced with building with digging due to the large amount of indian artifacts in the area.
Long ago I read something that has always stuck with me and I wonder if you have any information on it.
The article mentioned that saber toothed tigers were once in the area. Do you know if any remains from that time were actualy found on the premises?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 01:08PM
Bill's Grandson: First because we are fee simple private property, the protocols are already established. Any items found on the property belong to us. In the event of finding remains, we call the coroner, as as to his/her finding, the remains turned over to the appropriate parties. The property is within a much larger State of California Historical Overlay that includes much of CSD's property and residential property west and north of the Pan Hot Springs. A review through county planning will look at existing data regarding historical issues and we will no doubt have a required monitor when we do our new construction work.
I am Chiracaua Apache on my mother side, which is a Uto-Azteckan peoples, who first settled the Great Basin; and then spread though the southerwestern United States;and that they also share the same Shoshonian based languages as the Southern California Indians that included the Serrano Proper, and the Greater Serrano, together with groups that are from as far away as the Luiseno-Cahuilla to the Gabrielino.
I had always felt that I had two feet in different worlds. When I was in my youth, I went to Witayapies( Sioux for Welcome), and made regalia and danced. I spent several of my school vacations working on a number of resevation as a volunteer. I learned stories and songs. And I formed very strong spirtual beliefs that I carry with me to this day.I knew that when I bought Pan Hot Springs that it was a very special place. I also knew the importance to honor the the history of the springs and the people who honored it. I knew the stories that the Serrano proper came to the springs. But other than that all I new was that they were just that: stories. Those stories took me on a long and very interesting journey from, Southern California Indian resevations, tallking to the elders, to Universities libraries, including Cal State San Bernardino's exellent ethnology collection,and Berkley's Kroeber Hall. A.L. Kroeber,who was the author of the preemient 1919 Handbook of the California Indians,which I own, together with a number of turn of the century published ethnologist and contempory authors, both Indian and modern historians. That led to another search for unpublished material by ethnographer J.P Harrington who worked for the Smithsonian Institute , who spent 30+ years in the field interviewing elders accross the United States. He came to the San Bernardino mountains on two trips: one in 1915 with Santos Manuel ; the last Kiha and Paha( Chief and Medicine Man) of the Yuhavitiam clan ( Yuhav= Jeffery Pine; Tiam=people). Most native american tribes where surprise when the white man asked who the were. They replied " Why, were Human Beings of course!", and they took up names for themselves from where their traditional villages were, or land they were from; and in this case the ,Yuhavitiam's, regular year round village site was in the Santa Anna Canyon, above Seven Oaks, just below a unique low altitude grove of Jeffery Pine growing there. Kroeber list over 20 different, autonomous, totem societies, clans living in the canyons of the San Bernardinos just below the snow lines and above heat of the plains and desert floor. These peoples became know as the Serrano This is Spanish for Little Hills, indicitave of the foothill locations of their villages. And the second one in 1917 with Santos Manuel's son; Thomas. On that trip, Harringtons wife accompanied them, and from that trip she wrote and published a book titled " A Conversations with an Angry God"; of which I have not found a copy of as of yet. Anyone who may have or know how to get a copy of that book I would be greatly appreacitive to here from them. On the second trip Harrington was able to gather confirming information from the first one with Thomas's father and new material about the later period site of Thomas's camps.
Ultimatley, after finding a study for the US Forest Service, from a private Palo Alto think tank, titled "Names and Places of the Native Americans in the San Bernardinos" that excerpted J.P Harrington's material, I found out that there were over a million un-edited, un-published pages of Harrington's material stored in the Smithsonian's Museum of Natural History on the Mall in Washington DC. I made a call to the museum and inquired if I could get access to that material. I was transfered to a curator and I explained my interest in Harrington's material and he said that all I had to do was come down early and get signed in through security. ( and he would be happy to let me review the documents.
Well, I did go to DC, and I got there early,( at 7:00am downtown DC you could shoot off a cannon down the street and not hit anyone) and got a Betty Davis parking spot right in front of the front door of the Museum of Natural History. No one seem to be around and I tapped my keys on the front door; and a guard came up and opened the door. I told him of my appointment with the curator, he brought me in and had me wait as he made a call. In just a few minutes, the curator came and and he took me to have me fingerprinted and a picture taken, and I was presented with a visitors badge with my photo on it. He then turned and we walk up to the dark and empty halls of the displays and abruptly turned and faced a elevator I did not see. The doors opened and we went down 3 stories underground; and when the doors opened , there was a vast collection of windowed rooms lit with bright fluoresent lighting. I was ushered into one of the rooms that had a long wooden table that had small wooden open topped boxes scattered at intervals on the table something in them. He showed me a Microfiche reader in the corner where he had already brought out the fiche that was from the period when Harrington was in Southern California. He explained that after finding the corresponding numbered codes to the material that I wanted to see, I was to write down on small note paper supplied; and an assistant would go and collect what turned out to original documents;and that I was to use the disposable linen gloves in the boxes on the table to handle the documents. I was dumbfounded! First there we at least 50,000 documents on file and then after speed reading the microfiche, and actually finding the codes to his trips to Big Bear, here were Harrington notes , literally, written by hand, stained by coffee and who knows what, both in the margins and all over the paper, notes that included phonetic: Spanish ( These were Mission Indians who were forced to learn Spanish: Santos Manuel was supposedly born at Mission San Gabriel to a Yuhavtian Serrano father and Piaute mother) together with phonetic Serrano names, and English explainations and groceries and supply lists. How was I going to make any sense of this?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 01:24PM
Craig: Can the view counter be right? Now over 3298 view in just 6 days? amazing!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Feb 28 2009, 01:52PM
I love the history of the area and have about 90% of a book on the valley and the indians who shared it during the summer. some of it set near pan hot around the mid 1800's as their world began to really change. Once I get some transportation and can finish my research I may pick your brain a bit. Native American history is very interesting My grandfather was half Sennaca but I never was told this. Back then there was shame still attached to it. I remember as a kid always being a cowboy in our battles.
If you haven't been there yet you should check out the Heritage Room in the smiley library in Redlands. They have a very good collection for researchers.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Feb 28 2009, 01:57PM
sometimes the counters don't make sense when you see there are only a few people on line . But there is a great interest in area history as you can see a lot of visits to some of these threads in the history area
I found this at the bottom of my home page
"There are 59 new posts since your last visit. (You have read 61 of these posts.)"
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 02:16PM
Bills Grandson: Yes I have been to the Heritage Room at the Smiley many times and also the California Room at the San Bernardino's Central Library off E Strreet, and the Malki Museum on the Morongo Resevation, and the Palm Springs Library Downtown that has good stuff too.
I know that I looked and responded to at least 100+/- views but I don't think I could if I wanted to view over 3000 views.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 02:49PM
Bills Grandson: Yes I too had heard that some fossils had been found at Pan Hot Springs and I remember seeing a litte mention in one of the Remember When articles in the Grizzley many years ago I contated the Grizzley and the former writer of those articles and both did not has any info about it. I was offered to look in the archives of the Grizzley's and I was horrified whem I went and looked and found a large number of papers stuffed into a closet at the paper and was unable to find anything about the story.
As I remembered it, the story was that when the hand digging of the pools were undertaken(1919-1921) they found a few number of fossils, and that the Museum of Natural History in Los Angeles was contacted. They sent up 2 curators to examine the finds and found that they were from a sabertooth cat and a giant sloth. They took the finds back to the museum and that there was no more info about them. The trail seemed to go cold there. As I am known to do; I picked up the phone and called the Director of Paleontology, and he answer his phone( amazing who you can just call) I asked him about the story about the purported finds at Pan Hot Springs and he said no that it was about finds that were found on the eastern shore of baldwin lake and that they were supposed to be that of a mammoth. I told him that I was aware of the story of the finds on the east shore of Baldwin Lake , but this one was to be at Pan Hot Springs. He stated that he would be interested to find out if the Pan Hot Story was true because it would be the only find that he knew of that had both of those species at this altitude. He said that he would ask around and that there was a few oldtimers still at the museum and they may know more about it. He said that he would call me if found out any information. About 2 weeks later he called me back and did in fact confirm that indeed that there were finds of those species at Pan Hot Springs back then ( remembered by one of the oldtimers) and that unfortunately he did not know where to start to look in their vast underground vaults. He did say that they were from a time of about 25,000 years ago at that with the new aluvium a depth of 12 feet would be about right. 1' new aluvium would equal about 2,000 years. I remember that in a previous post i sais 1' = 100 years, and that was incorrect that should be 1'= 1000 years. In the new aluvium fan of Van Dusen Canyon it would be about double.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Feb 28 2009, 02:59PM
They have a statue of a saber tooth in yucca valley so it would not be much of a stretch to see them travel that distance. I think I heard it when I was in grade school wich would have been pre 1960. I remember the sloth, but not the mastadon
I have heard that about the grizzy and that is so sad. There were some great articles going way back in the Grizzly, and some of the other papers that preceded it. A great disservice was done when they didn't keep them. I have a few old copies from here and there and they are fun to look at food, home, and land prices from way back when.
If we knew then what we know now...
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sun Mar 01 2009, 05:24PM
PanHot
If you haven't done it already check out the historic photo section just below this thread.
as well as the photo/media gallery there are some great old pictures posted. Radha has been getting some great pictures and another member has supplied some great really old pictures of the mountains
Re: Pan Hot Springs
psm, Mon Mar 02 2009, 05:13AM
I am so happy to learn about the area These posts ave been very interesting. Thanks for the lessons
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 02 2009, 08:23AM
I glad people are enjoying these post. As you probably can tell Pan Hot Springs is one of my favorite subjects. Sometimes though it seems like analysis to paralysis. I enjoy the academia, and several folks sugessted that I write some books, and I say I hope I live long enough to write them, but I just really want to have people come and enjoy the waters and have that little bit of respite. I do personally get a reward when I have a positive effect on some's life, even though it may not be life changing, which is possible, it does allow me to make a difference. I believe that Pan Hot Springs can be that positive effect.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Craig ⭐, Mon Mar 02 2009, 07:22PM
Hey PanHot. Its now over 6000, and its correct. This is some great history and obviously it shows by the interest in it. Thank you so much for this contribution to the site! This is the kind of stuff SCM is all about.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 03 2009, 08:39AM
Craig: I'm utterly amazed at the response. almost 7,000 now. Is this the most views in the shortest time for SMC?
Here's one of the really special pics that I have:
This is "Prospecting for Hot Water at Pan Hot Springs". This in the meadow in 1917 drilling with a Scottish Wim drilling rig. That is a hand wrought 16' x 8" diameter steel drilling bit that is turned by the animal who walks in a small circle and turns the cable around and the operater slowly drops the bit and drills the length of the cable deep. This bit drilled wells throught Western United States at the turn of the Century
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 03 2009, 08:40AM
Click on the pic for the larger version
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Deb Doodah, Tue Mar 03 2009, 12:09PM
I just wanted to explain that those may not all be unique individuals viewing the thread. Anyone who opens the thread adds to the view count. So if I open the thread 20 times to view new entries, the count goes up 20.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 03 2009, 12:54PM
Debbie Doo: Thanks, I was pretty sure that there was not 6,000 plus different viewers, I posted over fourty times and clicked back to view comments at least a hundred times myself, but u gotta have some sore fingers to click in almost 8,000 time now. Just over 1,800 views since yesterday. still pretty amazing to me.
Here's another unique pic that I have not seen anywhere else:
"Swimming in the pool at Pan Hot Springs" This pic had to have been taken after the Fire in 1935? that destroyed the original Building and before the son in law built the new ones. This is the outdoor pool looking north towards Gold Mountain. The original Buildings took over two years to build and incredibly was the largest building in San Bernardino county at the time at over 22,000 square feet. It had the two Olympic pools, one indoor and one out. The Dinning room and kitchen with a large hall for socializing and dancing and 20 room hotel with private baths , which were a huge luxury at that time. The Jessurun's who had the resort built traved to Europe for the two years that the resort was being built, and collected furnishings for the hotel that included Persian carpets and Suits of Mail for display. I have also found remnants of Veronia Italian marble in the ruins of the property. I have a first person story that after the fire ;all they could do to clean up after, was to bury the foundations, and that they did not dig out the cellar of the kitchen; and that there may be some interesting stuff still there.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Luna, Tue Mar 03 2009, 01:43PM
I believe that a LOT of the "view count" is attributable to spiders or bots such as Google and other search engines.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 03 2009, 03:41PM
Well, thats probably not such a bad thing either.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 03 2009, 03:48PM
Pan Hot Springs Plunge and Inn 1932 There is supposed to be a one arm bandit in the background. link={e_FILE}public/ 1236123827_1771_FT85737_panhotpool. jpg]
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Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Mar 03 2009, 03:50PM
If there isn't it would be about the only place on the hill that didn't have a few at that time.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Craig ⭐, Tue Mar 03 2009, 07:07PM
The counter for a particular forum (such as this one) increments by one whenever someone reads a page of it. So if someone logged in and read this entire thread from scratch, it would increment the counter by 12 (in its current state of 12 pages). Of course many re-visit a thread to catch up on the latest post and if its only the last page they are having to read, then it will increment the counter by 1.
Robots, yes, they do index pretty much the entire internet, but I try to filter them from the counters as they can be misleading (I probably have filtered about 30% of them from hitting the counters even though they still index the page).
Consider the thread counters as "page views". Still an impressive number for this thread considering its age.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
©ammy, Tue Mar 03 2009, 09:16PM
Yes, this is one of our fastest growing threads in terms of page views: [Click Here]
It's only behind a couple threads about fires (which always get huge numbers) and some other threads on history that have been up for quite a while.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Mar 04 2009, 09:51AM
All I do really know is that I am enjoying sharing the pics and stories and info.
Here is another great shot of Pan Hot Springs Plunge and Inn, that I had not seen before.
This is pre 1935, maybe some one could identify the cars and models and get a closer date.Its a pretty good panorama almost showing the entire length of the building. My guesstimate is that it was about 200 feet long, and the highest point was about 2 1/2 stories tall. A you can see in the upper left hand corner its written Big Bear Lake "Pineknot"( miss-identified) California. no other notation as to the source.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Mar 04 2009, 11:23AM
here is another in case you don't already have it
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 09 2009, 08:47AM
Bills Grandson: Yes I do have that Frasher pic. Actually I have that actual un-used Frasher post card that was given to me by my Real Estate agent's as a gift.( Kim and Bruce Boda 909.556.0901) They found it on E Bay. There is another one of these pics that is shot from up where the Church now stands ,(at North Shore and Paradise) Here's the copy that I have.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 10 2009, 09:17AM
Hi Everyone, haven't posted much over the last week or so, alot going on/at Pan Hot Springs.
Doing testing of the new system: Pool temps averaging 78 degrees uncovered/ 88 degrees covered this winter (homemade 8ml plastic and duct tape 40'x80' out doors) Inflow temps holding at 94.
Forming a 501c , fot the Friends of Pan Hot Springs, setting up our first fund raiser, ( Raffel/Drawing for a House!!) More on this later which should be on a different thread.
We got back the repair profile from our pool engineering firm that says we can save the original hulls of the pools instead of shooting a new gunite "thin wall shell" inside of the existing pools. Really big deal save 100k!
The plan is to chip out the old plaster and expose the cement shell. Epoxy any cracks, skim a 1" gunite coat ( so the plaster will stick ) and plaster coat. We will do some minor shell changes to the steps and depth /length of both pools so the are aau/ncaa specs training size.We will be running new drains and skimmer system which hopefully also will have the ultra-violet system in line, with the filters. This will run closed loop, and a separate inflow/ out flow lines will bring new heated water in to the pools and a balanced amount out will be part of the distribution system of water to assist the hyrdology for the core 40 acre meadow east of Pan Hot Springs, as part of the Pan Hot Springs Meadow Conservation Managment Plan.
I did get pictures developed and burned from the copy negatives from the Fred Randsom Collection, and here's another unique one that many have not seen before. After the "Fire",which destroyed the entire 22,000 square foot facility, the Widow Jesurrun; her daugther, who as a child is purported to have came up with the naming of the hot spring as "Pan's"; which she was to have thought was a wood nynph, and the daughters new husband, proceeded to clean up the property by burying everything, except the pools, and opened back up. This would have to be 1933/34. It's looking north toward Gold Mountain over the "Outdoor" pool. Notice the Curb around the "Plunge" which was the design of the day. Now, it's a trip hazzard.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Mar 10 2009, 10:42AM
Here is a picture of my aunt from 1928 at the pool The little girl is Dorothy Jenkins who appears in a lot of pictures with her but I don't know who she is.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Rain, Mon Apr 20 2009, 12:12PM
is this still here today and if so where thanks for sharing
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Apr 22 2009, 03:05AM
rain
It is located just East of the mormon chuech. North shore near paradise
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Jul 10 2009, 10:50AM
Here's a neat copy of a story that ran in the 1960's about Pan Hot Springs. Ths was given to me recently from Joy Acoin (sp married name), who worked at Pan Hot for three summers as the "Snack Bar Girl" for Mary Sparadlin(sp), the daughter of the original owner's; the Jessruns. It was her husband Jerry, that told me the story of the "lost celler" of the original resort. They came up to Big Bear from Desert Hot Springs, to give me this and shared some great stories about Pan Hot. THeir daughter is Jenny McCoy, one of our local teachers, and her husband is Russ McCoy, owner of Mountain Water Co.I like to thank them very much for their sharing their history of Pan Hot Springs with me and now all of you.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Jul 11 2009, 11:08PM
It was nice to hear from Joy and jerry.
she was my teacher in about 3rd or 4th grade. And the first one who was "close" to our own age. I think most of us were jealose of Jerry for taking "our" girl. It did make his nephew robby's stock go up as we thought it would give us an edge. worse thing was we got stuck with listening to Mrs. E her substitue tell us the same dumb story she always told.
I'm sure Joy remembers working behind the counter at this place too at the families cafe across grom Gray's landing. This is our local game warden Dan Heenan
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 08:39AM
Pan's "apparent artesian geyser"
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 08:50AM
Any guess what this is?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
ROCK, Sun Jan 17 2010, 09:40AM
the clampets cement pond
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jan 17 2010, 10:42AM
Is this on the North side on the 18?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 10:49AM
No, the south.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:16AM
Here's another hint
Re: Pan Hot Springs
ROCK, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:41AM
a basement
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:50AM
That one was too easy.Doug. We did find the cellar that as never dug out after the fire in 1933. I have to thank Jerry Acoin for the story about the "lost Cellar" and the subsequent effort to find it. Her are a series of phots of the find.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:53AM
Purex Bleach bottle
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:56AM
Jenny(Acoin) McCoy her husband Russ and Brice Gordon helping.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:57AM
Malted Milk Tablets bottle
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:59AM
More good stuff
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 12:03PM
Just a start of the finds. We found almost 200 intact bottles dating from 1921 to 1945. It looked like it became a trash dumping site for the Inn
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bc, Sun Jan 17 2010, 12:12PM
Bottle collectors generally are most successful digging in, well, you know.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 31 2010, 09:42PM
Here's a few more after diggin' in the trash.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 31 2010, 09:44PM
and these too!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
STAXX, Mon Feb 01 2010, 09:15PM
Hi Pan,
Don't know if anyone got you this yet, but you mentioned:
"...in 1917 with Santos Manuel's son; Thomas. On that trip, Harringtons wife accompanied them, and from that trip she wrote and published a book titled " A Conversations with an Angry God"; of which I have not found a copy of as of yet. Anyone who may have or know how to get a copy of that book I would be greatly appreacitive to here from them."
The book is actually called:
Encounter With an Angry God: Recollections of My Life With John Peabody Harrington
Carobeth Laird was the wife of the legendary John P. Harrington, one of a group of "new" anthropologists rushing to record the fast disappearing culture of the aborigine Californians. Native studies was not considered respectable work by establishment academia.
It's available on Amazon as well as other places around the web.
[Click Here]
I PM'd you too but figured others might like the info as well
peace
mgh
[Click Here]
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 08 2010, 08:05PM
Got Water?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Around The Lake, Mon Mar 08 2010, 08:11PM
Nice photo Ray
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Fri Mar 12 2010, 09:18PM
These pictures are great.
I was researching names in Fawnskin , and found the name Emile C. Jessurun as the owner/builder of Pan Hot Springs. What I found out about his past was very interesting. If anyone knows more please reply.
The builder and owner of Pan Hot Springs was Emile Charles Jessurun. He was born on January 13th 1875 in San Francisco. He married Olive Tuttle on November 16th 1896 in Chicago. Thier daughter Estelle May was born in June of 1897 in Illimois. Emile while in Chicago had at least 50 of his photos copyrighted and he also had a patent on a process for photos in newspapers.The Jessurun family, along with Olive's mother moved to Manhattan where Emile operated a photography business.
They had moved by November 1916 to Los Angeles, designed and constructed the bungalow complex known as Alvarado Court. Alvarado Court was in a very nice area and many of the movie studio's wealthy lived at the court. All was great until the day that William Desmond Taylor was murdered at the court. The Taylor murder has never been solved, and still remains a mystery. There has even been a movie made about the story. According to several newspaper stories, Taylor was found in the morning by his male servant shot in the head. Now several people that lived at the court heard a sound like a back fire, but no one realized that Taylor had been murdered. Taylor was a very unique person, he wanted to clear the movie studio's of the drug pushers. His friend (some thought girlfriend) was on drug's and Taylor was sending her to what we now call Rehab. So perhaps, he was killed by a hired hit, or as most think was killed by a very young women. The woman was in love with him, and he felt that she was too young. He had told his friend the night before that she had come to his apartment late at night to tell him how much she loved him. The next night he was shot. Some think that she came the next night with a gun to kill herself, but in the end she killed him. One person said they say a man but it could have been a woman dressed like a man. This murder was written about in the papers. It was thought that the DA took a pay off from the young girl's family. The young girl was never charged. After the murder, Jessurun came to Big Bear and purchased the land for Pan Hot Springs, built the hot water pools and financed the construction of a sanatorium, then he died of a heart attack in August of 1926.
Stephen Chalmers an author knew and liked Jessurun's widow, he wrote a story about the legend of Pan Hot Springs. If anyone is interested I could post this as well.
I also want to say that Ray is great, I think he is a great researcher thanks for all you shared it keeps history alive in the valley.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Mar 13 2010, 09:51AM
Eileen
pleae post the legend. and thanks for the history lesson. That murder has been in many diffrent movies over the years.
funny how there are so many ties . sort of like the 6 degrees of seperation.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 10:29AM
Eileen- Yes,yes I too want to hear Chalmers "Legend of Pan Springs". Thanks so much. What a great story on the Jessuruns, fills in more of the history on a unique property like Pan Hot Springs. If you don't mine I'll post a copy of one of E.C.Jessuruns post cards that you sent me.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 10:44AM
Here's a couple of new Pan Hot Springs photos I think. One's out of the Peter Pan Club Sale's Brochure, click on the pick to clearly see. I'll scan more of this beautiful "Book" later.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 15 2010, 10:53AM
Is this the book?
[Click Here]
Re: Pan Hot Springs
MtMan, Mon Mar 15 2010, 01:55PM
So, what is the status of re-opening the pools? We had our children learn how to swim there, back in the 80's. All these years I just thought what a wonderful source of natural hot water and going to waste now. Little private cabins would be great to rent with their own little hot tub. Looking forward to swimming there again. Please let us know when. Thanks.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:04PM
bkap- Yes that is the Carolbeth Laird book. I did find and buy one and found it very revealing as to the "obsessed" nature of J.P. Harrington. There is a hard and frank passage regarding the vist to Big Bear, J.P. Carolbeth, and Manuel Santos, which I found to be probably a honest inter-personal account. But little else in historical account.
Mtman- That's the 6.4 million dollar question. Not really, but it seems like it.
Current status:
Plans sumitted and fee's paid to San Bernardino Land Use Services for a repair of the two pools and construction of a Restroon and Shower building, together with all the ancillary requirements.
San Bernardino County Health Department has carried our "Chemical Free" water treatment system to their counterpart in the California State Health Department for approval for the first public pools using Ultral-Violet bio-cide together with a hyper filtration and 24 hour change over with fresh geothermal water. This system was approved by the Department of Interior and the US Fish and Wildlife as part of the Pan Springs Conservation Habitat Management Plan inconjuction with the Big Bear CSD.
Pan Hot Springs has been in negociation with the local water agencies , since last fall,to partition and sell some significant ground water rights, that would provided the necessary funding of the constructions cost related to the reopening of the pools for public use again. Currently there is no commercial loan monies to be had.
Construction water sales are scheduled to resume this springs with several large projects on the books that will generate income for the property and the effort to reopen.
As little luck and a prayer, we could be working on the repairs this spring.
Here is the Peter Pan Sales Brochure I said I would post.
Enjoy
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:05PM
page1
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:08PM
pg3
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:09PM
pg4
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:09PM
pg5
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:10PM
pg6
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:11PM
pg7
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:13PM
pg8
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:14PM
pg9
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:15PM
pg10
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:16PM
pg11
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:16PM
I found a few facts about Pan Hot Springs. In the Redlands Daily Facts on 11/3/1919 there is a story about plans for a new resort in Bear Valley. The resort was to be modeled after " the lines of the Mission Inn in Riverside. Mr. Jessurun was attempting to complete the deal for the purchase of 40 acres of land from Ben Johnson a the northwest corner of Baldwin Lake. Jessurun wants the warm spring for a bathing plunge in connection with his resort. It was reported that the 40 acres was bought for 16,000.00.
Jessurun loves Bear Valley and claims that it is the most beautiful spot he has found that is accessible to the public.
B.G. Holmes wrote a book, thats title I can not remember (help if you know the title) and had old timers write about the earlier days of Big Bear. One of the stories was written by Estelle Jessurun Spradling (daugther of Emile). She states the following: My father and I came to Bear Valley on a short trip about 1919 in a fast sports car and bought an acre close to the lake in the Fisher Tract through Mr. Holmes. Later we built a better than average house of three baths in the form of a letter "H." (Eileen's question, Did this later become B.G. Holmes cabin and was it located where the Lagountia Timeshare is now?) For a time we lived in this, but my father found Mr. Johnson who owned some sixty acres adjoining Baldwin Lake which had on it a hot spring, which my father thought could be developed. So an exchange of properties was the result, and we put down a well and built houses, the hot spring was enlarged and a plunge created. A little revenue resulted from public use. Later, father built another plunge and a hotel adjoining, his death occuring before it was quite completed. Mother and I finished same and carried on under the name of Pan Hot Springs, but had a disastrous fire. Are there pictures of the "houses" before the lodge was built? In my thinking Pan Hot Springs, first had houses, than he built the lodge to look like Mission Inn, then it burned and a much more modest structure was built. Is this correct?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:19PM
pg 12
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:20PM
pg13
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:34PM
Eileen- I have seen a photo of the Pool buildings before the Inn and Hotel were built, and there are a few small out buildings, but no houses to been seen. The property is now only 5 acres, so some of the houses in the neighborhood could be ones the the Jessuruns built. There was one house, across the highway, that was a large beautiful home that was built in a "H" I had been inside of that house, and it burned down some years back. It had a cellar, and great native rock work with a great two sided fireplace that opened to the dinning room and the living room too.
After the fire in 1933, the more modest building were built to house the pool and the Bathrooms and Showers and that is what most people remember as Pan Hot Springs that ran every summer for almost 60 years!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:47PM
Here is the legend of Pan Hot Springs. I had someone helping me one summer and she forgot to write the source on some of the things that she copied. The legend was in a small book with other legends about the San Bernardino Mountains, The Great Arrowhead, The Legend of Pan Hot Springs, and the Legend of Castle Rock, and Sunset in Arctic Circle. I would love to know the title and author and date.
The legend of Pan Hot Springs
Although most ethnologists believed that the early Indian marriage custom was for the most part by barter or "bride stealing," in which the buck captured his mate, screaming and kicking as he seized her unexpectedly, there was even then such a situation as "falling in love, and many of the Indians' legends are beautiful stories of romance and adventure, together with intrigue and scheming, wherein the loveimpulse was used by one of the other of the partner's to accomplish some personal gain. Such a legend is the legend of Pan Hot Springs.
This legend has as its background the tribal wars of its people. Desert tribes, in savage and brutal raids on the peaceful mountain Indians, murdered great numbers, stole women and children and robbed camps of hides and furs.
One great mountain chief had resoved to never give up the war and frequently led his own warriors in counter attacks against the desert settlements.
The chief had a daughter, who was more beautiful than all the other girls of the tribe. Her bronze skin, long silken hair and pearl like teeth must have given her great advantages over her less fortunate clan sisters.
Her heart ached and she grieved at the loss of her people at the hands of the raiding desert warriors..She sat long hours in the moon-light asking the God of Peace to bring security and peace to her people. silently and alone she made those trips to a secret shrine in the forest.
But she had been seen. Scouts spied on her from the desert tribe, and when a new young chief, promoted because of his courage and bravery, became the leader of one of the desert clans he decided to capture the mountain beauty, and make her his own.
With due plans, one night as she sat in supplication, the desert warriors slipped from the moon shadows, seized her and carried her back to their chief.
Her beauty was astounding and the chief called a grand dance of his hunters in celebration of the capture of such a magnigicent girl. His kindly efforts were of no avail and she refused food and frink. She was punished, and that too failed to bring complacency in the heart of the maiden.
Only the thought of her people and their distress filled her mind, and she devised a scheme. One night when the chief sat with her in his tepee, begging her to be his mate, she suddenly gave intent of surrender. In the ecstacy of the moment the chief was overjoyed. But she had a price on her charms, although her heart was softened by the stalwart chief and she struggled within herself to keep away a love which would blind her to the need of her own people. But she promised him her hand. She'd be his if he would make peace with her father and never more raid and pillage the people of the mountains. In a sort of mystic trance he promised and they set out together to the wigwam of her father, to smoke the pipe of peace.
When they arrived at the camp of her people she could hardly restrain the elder chief to listen to the bargain she had made. No amount of explanation could get the ountain chief to trade his daughter to a warring tribe who had already killed so many of his kin. A meeting was called of all the wise men and it was decided that the young chief not only could not marry the daughter, but that he must die, since now he was their captive.
The young chief was tied with thongs and a funeral pyre was made in the deep rescesses of a cave from which floated a stream of crystal clear water. The helpless lover was made secure upon the pyre and it was lighted.
The girl pleased over and over again with the angry father, and finally in a desperate lunge she broke away from those who tried to stay her sorrow, and running to the blazing death couch she flung herself beside her loved one. With her arms encircleing the brave, they passed together to the Great Beyond.
The Gods became angry then at the the father who had refused to accept his daughter's sacrifice to save his people from further wars and to help her to seek her happiness. Great rumblings were heard in the earth. Presently fires forced open crevices in the mountain and water, heated by the fires which the Gods made deepin the earth, replaced the cool clear stream, and ever after has remained hot.
So legend records gellogical disturbances of an ancient time.
When Tom Core wrote a story about Stephen Chalmers he stated that Mr. Chalmers wrote the story for the Jessuruns to encourage interest in the resort.
Love to hear your thoughts and read your comments.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Mar 15 2010, 08:24PM
thanks.
I have never seen any evidence of fighting among the mountain tribes. But I am sure they were raided by the desert tribes. Nobody stayed in the mountains year round but reired to the high desert in the winter. Stealing of brides was not as bad a thing as we would understand. It was a way to keep tribes strong by spreading the gene pool.
I have no idea how they understood the need for this
I am very pleased to hear of Ben Johnson as there is very little written of him.
He was one of my grand fathers best friends and Ben often worked with him. He is one of the money that built the valley but were left out of the books.
Acording to "fun with Fritz" I think Fisher credit's himself with building the lagonita lodge home.
Fisher was one of the owners of pine Knot lodge and I have many letters between he and my Grandfather. Fisher seemed intent on forming a group, building the property and ending up owning it outright. I think he met his match with the locals of Big Bear. He had no love for Ben Johnson and wanted my grandfather to fire him because he did more talking then working.
I never understood the ties between the peter pan club, and pan hot springs. There seemed to be a small connection more whats good for one is good for the other. The picture above in the postcard is how I remember it in the early 60's. nice and warm inside except near some 4 inch (?) pipes that ran between the pools. Outside always seemed extreamy cold. Of course we were there in the winter. scraped my foot one afternoon and by that night could not walk. plenty of bacteria. I never swam there when it was actualy open
picture shows Ben Johnson on right flipping trout in Bear creek, my Grand father Bill Kickerbocker,in background. Picture was taken by B.G. Holmes. I have another somewhere with the three of them You can see Holmes setting off camara remotly.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Mon Mar 15 2010, 09:30PM
Wow, your pictures are amazing, I had heard about Mr. Johnson but to see him, priceless. Do you have any photos of Emile Jessurun or Olive? When you read about these people it brings it to life when you see them in a photo.
What type of person was B.G. Holmes? It sounds like he wanted to take the profits for himself, but did he have any other traits?
I read a story about a Mr. Pierce who according to B.G. Holmes purchased the first lot he ever sold, but I really do not know if it was true or not.
Thanks again for your post, you are so knowledgeable .
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Mar 15 2010, 10:48PM
I am learning more from these threads then I knew before. Just started a thread on B.G.
I have never found anything to stain his reputation.
My Grandfather was a partner in Pine Knot and I have minutes of meetings , and documents on the selling of parcels in town. The company seems to be have run with a heart, but there were dealigs and schemes among the partners to steer development to favor their parcels.
I have mentioned before that Monte Beauman told me a story about my grandfather having 6 bottles of whiskey to dring on the ocasion of the death of people who screwed him over. I think most were these partners. When we moved into the big house long after Bill's passing There were no more bottles left.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Tue Mar 16 2010, 05:18PM
I too am learning a great deal. I have one story about how the name was selected for Pan Hot springs but I am sure there are others and I would love to hear them.
According to the Grizzley 2-23-1945 E.C. Jessurun, felt the charm and beauty of the setting. The view of Baldwin Lake, with rosy tips of the desert mountains showing in the background, and the stately peaks of San Gorgonio and Sugar Loaf to the west was in inspiration. It almost seemed as though the pipes of Pan could be heard, playing softly to all nature lovers, calling them to come and play and relax in this beautiful woodland country. It was thus that the name Pan Hot Springs was chosen. I have a question "what are the pipes of Pan?" This article also states the analysis of solids made by the Smith Emery Company if anyone is interested I could post that as well.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Mar 16 2010, 05:55PM
located near the peter pan club. pan hot springs would be far in the background beyond the golf course to the right.
Pan
by Ryan Tuccinardi
The Greek god of shepherds and flocks, who was especially popular in Arcadia. He is a son of the god Hermes. He was depicted as a satyr with a reed pipe, a shepherd's crook and a branch of pine or crown of pine needles. He had a wrinkled face with a very prominent chin. On his forehead were two horns and his body was hairy. He was a swift runner and climbed rocks with ease. Pan belonged to the retinue of Dionysus.
Pan was also a god of fertility, unbridled male sexuality and carnal desire. He chased nymphs through the forests and mountains in the shape of a goat. Pan was not very liked by the other Greek gods.
I think they stretched the peter pan concept a bit to get the pan above to fit into the peter pan theme as we know it
picture below. many street names in bear city north shore mostly fit the names in peter pan story
modern pan was more like the puck of mid summer nights dream fame sort of a bawdy cupid type
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Mar 16 2010, 06:02PM
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Tue Mar 16 2010, 09:48PM
Did the Peter Pan Club come before Pan Hot Springs or was it the other way?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Mar 17 2010, 09:21AM
I am sure panhot, or Radha could answer that one.
my guess would be about the same time. But pan hot springs has been around forever.
When Peter pan club was formed owning property in Bear city gave you rights to all facalities. I was under the impression as a kid that pan hot had a similar arrangement. But I don't know for sure. Whatever the deal was it was not expensive to swim at pan hot. I think they made their money at the snack bar. Also there had been few improvements since it was built. It was down to the building pictured in the last post card posted. That was in the early 60's
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Mar 17 2010, 12:05PM
Pan Hot Springs came first. You can see that the Peter Pan Club was using the Pan Hot Springs Inn and Plunge as a sales tool for their land sub-division project in their sales brochure. I like the 1945 quote of E.C.Jessurun about the naming of the resort. I wonder if this is a reprint of an earlier quote from him because his death was reported as 1926.
Looks like I missed a page of the Peter Pan Woodland Club beautiful brochure so here it is.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Wed Mar 17 2010, 07:24PM
Yes, it was according to the paper from E. Jessurun. In 1945 it was Big Bear's centennial year (1945) and every effort was made to feature stories relative to historic and scenic points of interest throughout the valley.
It was not stated how they acquired the information, but I think that his daughter was still alive at the time of the article.
Do you have any other story about how it acquired its name?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Wed Mar 24 2010, 07:58PM
Hi Ray, I found the information about the Archts. of Pan Hot Springs
According to Southwest Builder and Contractor dated 10-13-1922 page 34 col. 3
Hotel-Big Bear Lake -Archts. Swasey and Mc Afee 1018 Hibernian Bldg. are preparing plans for a 2-story frame construction, hotel bldg of 100 rooms, each with a bath, at Big Bear Lake for E.C. Jessurun. Plaster and Half Timber exter. tile baths, hardwood and O.P. Floors, gas rad. heating, shake rf,: $150,000.00
This was a huge amount of money for the time. Does anyone know who the archts. were for the Peter Pan Club?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Mar 24 2010, 10:17PM
I have had this picture taken from a letterhead that shows something that was going to be built in Big Bear. I have alwys thought it was going to be on the Pine Knot Lodge property from the land as shown.
I wonder if this could have been the dream for pan hot?
looks about like the size given in your last post
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Wed Mar 24 2010, 11:09PM
Hi, well I had posted a legend about Pan Hot Springs, it was printed in a book with other legends, such as Castle Rock etc.
Well, it was not the legend that Tom Core posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 in the Grizzley. So, after checking, I will post that legend as it was in the paper.
Back in the late 1920s Stephen Chalmers and his wife lived in a lovely cabin below the dam. Stephen was a well published author, and he chose this site for his home because the magnificent view overlooking Bear Creek Canyon was a great inspiration for his writing. This site was just below the highway where his house was among three or four other cabins located in this most unusual place. It was Stephen Chalmers who wrote the book, "Take A Chance, Tammerlane," a stirring novel about the gold rush days of Holcomb Valley. This story was turned into a play that was presented in the Moonridge Bowl with a cast of over 100 local residents.
Chalmers was well known to all the valley residents and was a good friend of the E. C. Jessurun's who had built the huge Pan Hot Springs resort in 1924. E. C. died in 1926, which left his wife, Francisca (Olive?), and daughter, Estelle, to carry on the business.
It was through his Indian friends that Stephen Chalmers learned of the unique legend of Pan Hot Springs. To preserve the story, he put it in writing for the benefit of Miss Jessuran who inherited the spa from her mother. Here then, from a recently discovered document, is the parable exactly as this author wrote it so long ago on June 22, 1931.
The Legend of Taruma
Part I
Before the coming of the white man there lived in what is now called Bear Valley, in the San Bernardino Mountains, an Indian tribe whose chief was Mokwa - a name, oddly enough, meaning "Great Bear." Mokwa and his people loved peace but were often forced to war by other tribes who invaded their hunting grounds.
Their principal enemy was Barualli, chief of a desert tribe, who offended by slaying game wantonly rather than of necessity. Mokwa sent a warning and protest to Barualli, who tauntingly replied that with the next hunting-moon he would kill so much game that Mokwa and his people would have nothing to eat but leaves and bark. He added insult to insolence by calling the Bear Valley Indians "Tree-Eaters!"
Mokwa's warriors demanded war. Great Bear himself was advanced in years. Kenau (The Eagle), a foremost warrior, secretly hoped to become chief but Mokwa willed that his son, Taruma, should fill his place.
Taruma was little more than a youth. He excelled physically in many things but was a thinker - a dreamer - a lover of the great forest, the lakes, the streams and all the living things there in. Over these he had a strange power. They were not afraid of him nor he of them. And he never hunted just to kill!
When news came that Barualli and his warriors were approaching the Pass which still gives access to and from the desert, Mokwa called his council together and commanded his son, Taruma, to be present. Mokwa told the council that the desert wolves were coming and that they must be turned back in the pass. Himself too old to lead, Mokwa offered his spear to his son and told Taruma to lead the warriors.
Kenau, chagrined, protested that Taruma was no warrior but "a woman" - a dreamer of foolish things!
"He is my son!" said Mokwa. "Let him speak!"
Taruma spoke and said, "But one thing I would ask: Why must there be war?"
"They have called us Tree-Eaters and they slay wantonly in our hunting grounds," Mokwa stated.
"Is the serpent to be blamed because it hisses?" asked Taruma. "If Barualli snarls, it is because he is a wolf. If he kills in our country he does wrong and this wrong should be made clear to him, but why slay him and his people? Should we not tame these wolves, even as I do the bear and the lion and bring them to my side? Peace, O Mokwa, is a greater thing than war!"
But Mokwa refused to listen. Only he repeated, "You are my son! Take the spear and lead my people!"
And Taruma, bowing silently, took the spear and led the warriors to meet Barualli and his tribe in the Pass that still looks out over the desert.
Part II
Taruma and his warriors were gone two nights and a day. No news of battle came to the Indian village, where there remained only women, children, and old men. Among the latter were Mokwa and the aged medicine man, Chetowaik.
Still no news came - until an Indian boy came flying with the word, "The warriors are returning!"
Mokwa and Chetowaik stood at the edge of the village to greet them. The old chief's eyes were dim. He bade Chetowaik tell him if he could see his son, Taruma.
"Nay, O Mokwa," said the aged medicine man. "It is strange! They come in silence, singing no chant of victory; neither do they chant the death-song of defeat. Stranger still - it is Kenau, the Eagle, who leads the warriors!"
"Kenau!" cried Mokwa. "Then Taruma - my son - has been slain in battle!"
"Nay, O Mokwa!" said Chetowaik. "For now I see him - Taruma. But they bring him bound-like a captive!"
"Bound like a captive? The son of their chief, Mokwa?"
"It is so," said the old medicine man, bowing his head for the shame of it.
When the warriors came to a halt before Mokwa, it was Kenau who spoke. "It was as I foretold the council!" he cried. "Thy son, O Mokwa, is a woman! He left us in the pass, advanced alone into the camp of Barualli and there smoked the pipe of peace with him who called us "Tree-Eaters!"
"Let my son, Taruma, speak!"commanded Mokwa
Taruma, his arms bound behind him, faced his father and said, "The Eagle's words are true, O Mokwa! With Baruelli I sat in council. We agreed there was room for all in these mountains - hunting for all - and none need to be the eater of trees. We agreed that Baruelli should hunt only to the east of the Pass, while we hunted to the west. Why, then, should we slay one another? - spill blood? Peace is a greater thing than war! And behold! We passed the pipe and the smoke of it lay about the wigwam like the peace of dusk at the end of the day."
"His words are as sweet as a doves call!" jeered Kenua, the Eagle. "But he is a squaw - a coward! He fears blood!"
"Speak, my son Taruma! - answer him!" cried Mokwa
And Taruma slowly lifted his head and said, "I fear but one thing, O Mokwa - blood - blood that is spilled in vain anger, as my people's never shall be!"
"Woman!" "Squaw!" "Coward!" cried the warriors, enraged while Mokwa groaned aloud, crying, "My son - a coward!"
Then his sorrow and shame turned to fury. "Where is the spear that I gave him?" he thundered.
"It is here, O Mokwa!" said Kenau. "The Eagle snatched it from the hand that would stain its brightness!"
Mokwa seized the spear from Kenau and cried in a voice of terrible agony and wrath, "Thus do I deal with a coward - even though he be my own son!" And he drove the spear with all his might through the heart of Taruma.
Part III
After the death of Taruma a strange sickness came upon Mokwa and his tribe. It swept the village from end to end, sparing few. Many died, and among the first was Kenau who had goaded Mokwa into slaying his own son.
Those who did not die lay almost helpless, crying for relief. Chetowaik, the old medicine man, escaped the disease and labored day and night alleviating the misery of the tribe.
After many days Chetowaik came to the wigwam of Mokwa who was groaning in great agony of body and mind. To Chetowaik the old chief said, "It is the Great Spirit's punishment for my son's offense!'
"Nay, O Mokwa," said the wise old medicine man. "The Great Spirit is angered that Taruma was slain. For in thy son, O Chief, there was the tongue of the Great Spirit that whispers wisdom. Rise now, O Mokwa, and behold a miracle! Many times the sun hath come and gone, burning on that spot where Taruma lies with the great spear thrust through him so fiercely that its head is sunk in the earth beneath his body. Yet he lies there as one who but slumbers, and smiles in his sleep. Even the blood from his wound is warm and congeals not. This, O Mokwa, is strange because Taruma is not as other men!"
Amazed to hear that the neglected body of his son, lying where it had fallen showed no natural changes, Mokwa reeled from his wigwam and went with Chetowaik to behold this miracle. Such warriors as were well enough to walk went also to see this strange thing; even those who could only crawl on hands and knees.
It was even as Chetowaik had said. Taruma smiled like one dreaming happily in this noon hour, despite the spear transfixing him with its head sunk deeply into the ground.
A great remorse smote the heart of Mokwa. He covered his eyes and cried, "Pluck forth the spear!"
A warrior attempted it but could not withdraw the weapon. It was as if only the mighty arm which had driven it could pluck it forth.
"This is my punishment!" groaned Mokwa as he grasped the spear and his strong hands drew it forth. "Now lift him gently - my son - Taruma," he said to the warriors, again covering his eyes.
As they lifted the body, a cry went up from old Chetowaik. "Behold!" cried the old medicine man. "The Great Spirit makes a sign!"
From the ground where they had lifted the body of Taruma - from the deep gash in the earth where the spearhead had gored - water bubbled! At first it was tinged red, but presently it cleared and shot upward in a fountain stream that broke and rained upon the bodies of the sick who had crawled to this spot.
Suddenly one of the sick stood up-erect-and cried, "It is the blood of the gentle Taruma! It has touched me! I am strong! I am whole again!"
The fountain of water, warm and sparkling, continued to surge upward. Falling, it created a rivulet which broadened to a stream. Finding a hollow place, it formed a pool. And there such as were strong enough brought those who were sick and laid them in the healing waters.
And the story was told by the council fires of the Utes, the Shoshones, the Hopis, and all the tribes east and west of the Great River. Not in war, but in peace, and with great awe and marvel, these came from far and near to purify their bodies and their minds in the Spring of Taruma - the legacy of that Indian youth who dreamed dreams and yielded his life for the greatest of them: That Peace is a better thing than war!
That men in accord are stronger than Hosts in Battle!
Does anyone know of another legend about Pan Hot springs?
Bill's Grandson- I loved the letterhead photo. It seems that many people had big plans for Big Bear Valley.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Mar 24 2010, 11:32PM
Eileen
that story makes more sense then the first.
I thought the leeterhead was funny because it looks quite a bit like Northwoods.
I Am glad you cam up with the link to the dam cabin being Chalmers. I had thought it was the home of a diffrent author that grequented the area.
in the 60's thw rode was more serpentine near the dam. where it goe's through the cut with walls on either side it had gone to the outside on the fenced in road that is still there. there was a road on that curve that led up to the the top of where that cut is now. There were several cabins on there. There was another on the turnout before the dam, and another further into the canyon. I think the one further into the cabyon may have been the writers cabin. In miy mind probably not the best place to live due to the canyon being cold much of the year and the noise of the water.
Thanks for posting the story. You are getting some great stuff.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Apr 09 2010, 05:07PM
Dream from a dreamer.
panhot_colorrendering_3-29-10.pdf
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Fri Apr 09 2010, 07:31PM
PanHot
now that would be something to see.
I wish you luck.
I still miss the cattle, and horses grazing out there
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 09:41AM
Everyone like pictures.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 09:46AM
7:30 am
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 09:48AM
22 degrees
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 09:52AM
The pond out on Hwy 18
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 09:54AM
Lots of steam.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 10:08AM
Pano view over the meadow. The pools below and Sugarloaf mountain in the background.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Craig ⭐, Wed Apr 14 2010, 06:27PM
Wow, awesome shots PanHot!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Apr 14 2010, 11:49PM
Great pictures. Have you enlarged the pool? I don't remember it as being that big?
how deep is the source of the water? and is there an end in sight oft's source of water short of it moving off it's hot spot?
And are there any harmful chemicals in the water:?
I can remember getting a rash on my chest a few times after swimming in the pools. I assumed it was from chlorine added (this was about 45 years ago)
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Apr 15 2010, 12:01PM
Bill's grandson- No the pic's I posted are of the pond I built approx 5 years ago up by the highway. Here's a pic of the pools after I cleaned them up for my daughters 11 birthday party.
USGS say that the water is over 8,000 years since it was last surface ground water, and that it is heated by a magma source 2 miles below sea level. Although the water is certified by the State of California as a artesian mineral hot spring, there are no "harmful chemicals" present. The mineral content is microscopic amounts ;some of them, if present in significant amounts could be considered harmful. Sounds like you get lots of rashes, you said that you got one on your leg from swimming at Pan Hot too. Actually with the levels of sulfur in the water it would act as an anti-bacterial agent. I am not sure that chlorine was used at Pan Hot 45 years ago. I know that when I first saw the pools some 30+ years ago they were not very clean, and with our ability to now change the water over every 14 hours the pools water is very clear and clean.
waterquality.ppt
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Thu Apr 15 2010, 03:34PM
The thing with my foot was from a scratch I got when I tripped over a scuba tank and picked up something from the concrete near the inside pool. It was not open for the public but we were taking our scuba lessons from a deputy. So I imagine it had not been kept as clean as it normaly would have.
My dad used to go to tacopa hot springs NE of Baker every year or so and bring back water to drink. I don't know what it had in it that he liked. I believe he felt it had a healthy quality. it tasted sort of carbonated as I remember. Does your water have a similar strong taste?
Will you be able to open this summer for swimming?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 28 2010, 06:40AM
Bill's Grandson: No, the water has a slight smell, so you know that its not tap water, but I do have several folks that come by to take home water to drink and to use as a soak. There are supposed to be medicinal value as i have heard several stories about it's healing properties. As for opening for swimming this summer it looks more and more like we are going to be able to.
If the weather is nice this weekend I'm going to fill the "outdoor" pool and invite all the socal folks out for a dip.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Deb Doodah, Wed Apr 28 2010, 07:01AM
Yee-Haw! Everyone In To The Pool!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Around The Lake, Wed Apr 28 2010, 01:58PM
that would be so cool I hope all works out for you.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun May 02 2010, 10:13AM
Pools 81 degrees this morning at 7:00 am( air temp 34! supposed to get to 65 today). I'll have the gates open this morning for anyone who's the least bit interested. Jump in for a swim, stick yor feet in or just stop by for a visit. I'll be out there till about 2 or 3, depends if I still have some swimmers. If your not sure where we are at, we are just east of the Mormon Church on North Shore Drive, just past Paradise.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Craig ⭐, Sun May 02 2010, 04:07PM
When does it open?????????
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bc, Sun May 02 2010, 04:44PM
Excellent! This would mean our family probably will have 3 generations that have used the pools before I croak.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Around The Lake, Sun May 02 2010, 07:24PM
I missed it now I am sad maybe next time.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Deb Doodah, Mon May 03 2010, 05:29AM
I wish we had been UTH. I would have loved to take a dip. Maybe this summer.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Ernest T. Bass, Mon May 03 2010, 08:27AM
you croak..... as in like a frog? does your neck swell up, that looks so cool!
lack of sleep makes this funnier then it is.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun May 23 2010, 09:15PM
A little something to warm eveyone up.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Jun 07 2010, 07:55AM
Got two new skimmers, but they poop in the pool.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Jun 14 2010, 08:21AM
Pan Hot's going green!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Jun 14 2010, 08:26AM
Have to blame it on Laurels 15th Birthday. Her and her friend Jodi had a combined B-Day Saturday. Thats Laurel in the front and Jodi behind her.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Jun 14 2010, 08:32AM
More B-Day Pics
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Around The Lake, Mon Jun 14 2010, 03:52PM
They grow up so fast.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Jun 17 2010, 10:17AM
ATL - Too fast in my book.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Jun 17 2010, 10:25AM
Here are some reprints of ads for Pan Hot Springs. Note the "Heated Air System" that allowed the resort to operate "Year Round".
Re: Pan Hot Springs
karyl, Sun Jul 04 2010, 10:12PM
is this where they called the big bear?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Jul 24 2010, 07:21AM
Karyl-I am not sure I understand the question or get the joke. But I do know that the locals are welcome to come and swim for free today and tomorrow from 10:00am to 5:00pm Saturday and Sunday. Pool's temps are around 85 degrees. Don't bring pets, glass, radio's, cigarettes. Brings swim suits, sun screen, beach chairs, coolers, floaties, and a friend.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Aug 08 2010, 08:17AM
This could be you.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Craig ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 05:54PM
How much?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Aug 09 2010, 11:11AM
Craig and everyone else: The pool is not open for business.Thus you cannot pay. I am letting the locals only; swim for free in my pool on Saturdays and Sundays from 10am to 5pm. No Glass, Pets, Cigaretts?, Radios. Bring chairs,sunscreen,bathing suits (no cut-offs or street clothes)sun shade if you need it.Coolers are ok too.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Aug 31 2010, 08:24AM
Just wanted to share a nice copy of a newspaper story that Eileen sent to me.
Big Bear Life 5-10-1930
Pan Hot Springs Makes Important New Improvements
Extensive improvements which have been completed at Pan Hot Springs within recent weeks under the direction of Mrs. Olive M. Jessurun, owner and manager, enable this famous mineral water resort now to offer to the public a hotel service as complete and comfortable as that to be found anywhere and at the same time a rest and curative service which is perhaps not exceeded by any other institution any place in the country.
With modern hotel facilities, inn, bath house for hot tub baths and both indoor and outdoor plunges, large dance hall and lounge, Pan Hot Springs and Inn when opened to the public recently presented almost every advantage that could be desired.
Hotel facilities consist of 23 large, well furnished rooms, 13 room downstairs and 10 upstairs, each provided with hot and cold water and lavatory, and furnace heat. Guests are entitled to the use of plunges and baths and all other privileges at the resort.
An outstanding feature of the new improvements is the completion of the large bath house, 30x60 feet in dimension, with quarters for men and women, in which the highly beneficial hot tub baths may be taken. Provision is made for the installation of additional bath units in the future.
Another notable feature is the spacious dining room in which guests may enjoy the excellent dining service offered. The dining room is most modern in that it contains a grill where meats may be broiled over hardwood embers guests supervising the preparation of meats to their own individual taste if they wish. Large
Gatherings of clubs, conventions, etc., can be accommodated in the dining room.
The mineral water is from an artesian warm spring. It comes from a great depth at a temperature of 90 degrees, flowing into the plunges constantly. The water is radio-active. The principal chemical property is sulphate of soda, which is highly beneficial for rheumatism, neuritis and kindred ailments. It is also a healthful and pleasant drinking water.
Mrs. Jessurun has as her able right hand lieutenant and assistant, her daughter, Miss Estelle Jessurun. In fact, just who really is “boss” sometimes might be hard to distinguish.
However, Mrs. Jessurun and Miss Estelle are both to be congratulated for their success in bringing to its present completed state of development an institution which is distinctively an asset to Big Bear Lake and Valley.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Aug 31 2010, 01:09PM
PanHot
I havea question.
I had always thought the pool was in the building to the left in the above picture. But the front layout as I remember it was similar to the footprint in the building on the right. but no second floor.
When it burned. Did it all burn/ and they rebuilt just on the footprint of the building on the right?
There was only one floor when I was thereand beside the bump outs to the front there was only room for the indoor pool and the changing rooms to the North side of the building I think we entered through either between the bump outs or in the left one.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Jun 08 2015, 09:28AM
Hello
I was given three photo albums to copy by Mr. Pohill, who's family owned and operated Pan Hot Springs for almost two generations. Some of you will recognize themselves and/or their friends.
Enjoy
photo_book_01.pdf
photo_book_02.pdf
photo_book_03.pdf
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Jun 09 2015, 04:19AM
Thanks for posting. These are the kind of history we need more of. Our knowledge could double with the photo's that are sitting in albums of the people who saw it happen. I went to swap meets with a friend and it was normal to see boxes of these family treasures in boxes going for little or nothing discarded by family who didn't appreciate what they had.
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 11:55AM
Hi All I thought I'd post some old and new pic from Pan Hot. Love to see and hear about peoples memories of Pan Hot Springs
Ray
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 11:56AM
more
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 11:57AM
and more
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:01PM
These are Felix Shure's drilling crew and their equipment drilling the first wells at Pan Hot Springs
Ray
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:02PM
.........
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:03PM
ect
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:04PM
and...
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:06PM
These wells are still producing artesian hot water.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
melvin, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:07PM
awesome!!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:13PM
These photos are from Fred Ransom's collection, he allowed me to make copies. Felix was his uncle.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:14PM
and...
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:16PM
This tank fed the resort and Hotel. Sat where the mormon church is now. !8 feet in the air
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:20PM
Last 2 for now. New pic shot last Monday sunrise. First one is the pond up by the highway
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:31PM
Interesting note: 1918 report listed water temps at 88 degrees. First testing by me in 1993( post 1992 earthquake) was 92 degrees. After new pipes and pumps were installed last summer temps rose to 94 degrees. Yesterday noted a temp surge to 96 degrees and then it came back down to 94.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:33PM
Ok one more.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Hooky Bobber, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:38PM
Thanks Ray for the history and hope you get it opened up I used to love swimming there. Good Luck pulling for you!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:51PM
Thanks JerryB For those who didn't hear I let the locals swim the last two summers on the weekends just to let as many people know about Pan Hot Springs and my work to reopen the pools. We are in the permit process with County Planning department, and we were sucess full in geting a partnership with US Fish and Game and the CSD in developing a Conservation Habitat Plan for the Pan Hot Springs Meadow ,using the recycled water from the pools to help maintain hydrology for approx 40 acres of CSD property, and allow additional public access and recreation on the balance of the property. Included in that partnership is the planning for non-chemical treatment for the pools to maintain the original water quality and chemistry.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Feb 22 2009, 12:55PM
Here's another sunrise over the meadow that I liked.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
MIKE, Sun Feb 22 2009, 01:45PM
Did you go with smaller pools? I was a life Guard for the Pohills at PanHot for several years from about 78 through the 80's, and those shots look like the pool is much smaller.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Deb Doodah, Sun Feb 22 2009, 02:05PM
For us newbies...where is Pan Hot Springs located.
And, can I come jump into the bath water while there is still snow on the ground?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
MIKE, Sun Feb 22 2009, 02:21PM
Debbie Dooooo wrote ...
For us newbies...where is Pan Hot Springs located.
And, can I come jump into the bath water while there is still snow on the ground?
For us newbies...where is Pan Hot Springs located.
And, can I come jump into the bath water while there is still snow on the ground?
Head out like you were going to go to the desert towards Baldwin Lake on North shore. It is the last set of structures on the right side of the road just before Baldwin Lake.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Luna, Sun Feb 22 2009, 03:05PM
Northshore, just east of Paradise, next to the church.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
©ammy, Sun Feb 22 2009, 08:53PM
Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing the photos and history!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 08:15AM
Living in the West end I swam at Stillwells most of the time, and seldom got to Pan hot.
Later on a bunch of us were taking scuba diving classes from a local deputy. He was graciously loaned the pool for our use. It was in the winter and the inside pool was very nice and warm. once being maucho we decided to use the outside pool. I don't think any of us lasted more then a few seconds as it was probably about 50 dehrees.
For some reason I would get a rash from something in the water and one time scraped my foot and got an infection and couldn't walk the next day untill I got a shot from the doctor.
It was a very neat place and has a great history and I'm sure there are a lot of stories to tell.
I wish you the best in getting it going again. My son lives very close and I'm sure they will teach their daughter to swim in the pool.
And thanks to you and Fred for the pictures. I wish we could get him on here to share his stories.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 08:24AM
The temperature went up after the landers/ big bear quakes. .
Right now there is an auful lot of shaking going on in the state. and in Alaska. I'm sure you will notice a connection as you follow it. Masybe even be able to predict a bit.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Lalala, Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:10AM
BG, No BIG shakers, please and thank you
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:18AM
Mike: Not these are the original pools, we just cleaned them up. You'er probaly bigger now and the don't seem as big as they did then.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:24AM
Debbie Doo? Pan Hot Springs is a 5 acre property adjacent east of the Mormon Church with 300 feet of frontage on State Highway 18 ( North Shore Drive) And no we are not allowing swimming now that we are in a permit stage and do not want to p#* off the power that be.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:55AM
Lalala
I'm with you there. I used to enjoy them untill that morning and the following week. Now I don't enjoy them at all.
Our water in the park I am at now is 105 degrees. We sit right on top of a leg of the san andreas.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 10:57AM
Bill's Grandson: Since we do not have temp reading right before the 92 quake we do not know if the temps went up because of that event. What we do know is that the artesian flow returned to it historical flow (1915/ 40 gpm: 1993/40 gpm)and that the artesian flow was not enough prior to the 92 quake, Pan Hot was pumping water to mainain temps in the pools. I have taken temps after all major aftershocks and quakes ie Hector, and the temps did not change (93 degrees). Because of information from testing of Pan Hot Springs by the USGS two yearts ago we know that the water from the springs is over 8,000 year old since it was last surface ground water and that it moves quickly through the mountain formation, and that it is heated by a magma source 2,000 feet below sea level. The San Bernardino's are a basalt formation( molten rock cooled below the surface and heaved through plate teutonics), and are not a volcanic formation. We also know that the Baldwin lake basin is over 2,000 feet deep with alluvim and the soils are about 700 feet deep at the site of Pan Hot Springs. We also know that wells a mile away are heated to 87 degrees at a depth 0f 700+ feet deep indicating significant spreading of the geothermal waters. These soils are saurated with cool ground water (55-57 degrees) and I believe the geothermal waters are cooling as they rise through the saturated soils and that because of tha shaking of the 92 event allowed a return to the historical flow allowed the heated water to resume its temps. And I belive that with the new pumping system that I installed this past summer ( increased flow to 145 gpm) allowed the thermal waters to move faster through the saturated soils reducing the contact with the ground water temps and thus showing higher temps than ever before.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:02AM
I thought it was in the grizzly that the temp went up, but it could be just the flow sorry if I had it wrong
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:12AM
Great info.
I love geology and especialy of the Big Bear area.
I used to have a map that showed the different sediment layers in the valley learned mostly from the wells. It is very hard to imagine how much the area has changed over the centuries.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:38AM
Bill's Grandson: Accuracy and Fact checking is not one of the Grizzly's forte. They still take about the 92 earthquake as the "Big Bear Quake" and the paper at that time stated that the epicenter was in Baldwin Lake, when infact it was centered at the approx. 4,000 foot level on the back side ( south facing) slope of Sugarloaf Mountain 6 miles deep and never surfaced faulted. It was on a previously infered but not disclosed fault line paralleling Big Bear valley in the Santa Anna Canyon. It was a slip strike quake which sent almost 80 percent of the force north into Big Bear valley. Because of the solid rock formations we suffered less that 10% damages to our evaluation ( 6 billion dollar value verses 60 million dollars damages) We are actually rated by the State of California Earthquake Authority the lowest hazard rating of a C1. In a conversation I had with Dr. Lucy Jones from USGS she told me that meeting with reporter that day after the "Big Bear Quake" that she told the assembled that the quake was epicentered 6.5 kilometers south south east of Big Bear Lake 6 miles deep near Seven Oaks, and never surfaced faulted, but that was too wordy for the newspaper editors and was thus dubbed the Big Bear Quake. Our local media was the worst in the reporting and have yet to fully state the USGS final report and have really done a disservice to the public.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:47AM
Bill's Grandson: It has changed very little over the centuries, the alluvium is about 1 foot per hundred year's ;more in the flood plains. Our mountains are considered very young, 250 million years, Triassic I belive.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:51AM
I think everyone who was here would tell you that it was on their porch which you think about it, it was becaause of the fepth. When the big one hit I had a full house at the restaurant. Everyone being woke up from Landers. It was easy to tell it had come from the SE toward bear mountain as that was where the "train" came from that hit the building.
My house was in sawmill canyon which had a surface crack at either that one over the next week. There were a few more in the valley. I wouldn't know if these would qualify as a rupture. I did notice something that I have never heard mentioned but there was a slide just North of South fork where probably about 1/4 acre slid downslope about 50 feet. That would be about directly above the place you mention I would guess. I heard stories of fishing jumping in the lake, and a "wave" going across baldwin which I believe was dry at the time.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 11:57AM
I was talking a larger scale. As I understand it this is at least the second time around for this area to be built and torn down. To scoop out the alluvial and imagine the valley as a canyon and the enormity of some of the changes is very humbeling to humans who measure time in minutes and years when the earth thinks of a second as hundreds or thousands of years we have only been here a blink of an eye to the planet.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Feb 23 2009, 12:18PM
Bill's Grandson: I know it is hard to explain to people about the 92 Quake, when they know what they saw and felt. I was here also. Most of the damages were from poor construction, un-reinforced masonary, hillside construction and liquefaction. Did you know that the whole bottom of the valley is a liquefaction zone? The USGS report noted that there were reports of faulting at Pan Hot Spring, but they were in fact arcane strike marks resulting from liquefaction. Shock waves radiating through the soft soils leaving lines as the wave moved north across the valley. It was also noted that there were a number of rock falls in the Santa Anna Canyon, but no finding of surface rupturing.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
UBU, Mon Feb 23 2009, 12:56PM
Thanks guys, this is interesting.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Radha, Mon Feb 23 2009, 01:34PM
This image seems to be from around the same time as yours.
PanHot, thanks for all of the time and effort you put into scanning and loading images. Your collection is wonderful.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Feb 23 2009, 01:36PM
The way it was shaking that morning I didn't think there would be anything left.
At the restaurant besides thegrill and fryers trying to go to the floor there was no damage.
At my home beside having floor to ceiling glass the only damage was my water heater trying to leave. It actualy made it about a foot.
Besides the western auto, emingers, and the grizzly/village printing office there was little structural damage. Several thousan fireplaces. I think more damage was done tearing down the fireplaces without unhooking from the building then the earthquake itself. several newer house showed they wern't built according to code.
But luckily no loss of life in the valley.
I am sure glad to have been there for it. But wouldn't want to go through it again.
Those who have google earth and haven't upgraded recently do so there is a great overlay that shows near real time earthquakes and you can see how Alaska and the aleutian chain are rocking and rolling with a volcano coming to life.
In california there is a lot going on to but the mamoth lakes area which has enormous potential is relativly quiet.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Socalman, Mon Feb 23 2009, 03:48PM
My parents owned a place on Michael Ave., just south of North Shore Blvd. It had been built in 1938 and from what I saw there, there were no building codes enforced. My parents bought from the original builder in 1959. The man was a welder by trade. Most of the plumbing pipes were WELDED. About a month following the quake, we found out that the drain from our sink & bathtube had broken loose from the "main" bathroom drain when we went below the floor to check on the feasibility of adding a downstairs restroom. To our shock, we found a small "septic" pool had formed where the welded pipes had broken. Fortunately we were weekenders and it wasn't a horrible situation to fix!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Socalman, Mon Feb 23 2009, 03:51PM
I would sometimes go over to Pan Hot when we got tired of the pool at the Peter Pan Club or when it was closed. (Had a little "after hours" swim once too. I'm sure it was a common practice for the locals!)
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Deb Doodah, Mon Feb 23 2009, 04:14PM
Thanks for all the info PanHot! and welcome to the site. I look forward to your opening so I can come and check it out. I promise I won't jump in while there is snow around it and until you get your permits.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
butterflyaway, Mon Feb 23 2009, 05:13PM
I remember once being accused of stealing water from Pan Hot Springs.... true story!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
MIKE, Mon Feb 23 2009, 05:50PM
butterflyaway wrote ...
I remember once being accused of stealing water from Pan Hot Springs.... true story!
I remember once being accused of stealing water from Pan Hot Springs.... true story!
I used to bring gallons jugs of it home for my grandma. She liked to drink it.
From the source not the pool
....Re: Pan Hot Springs
MIKE, Mon Feb 23 2009, 05:55PM
Pan Hot Springs Lifeguard
Re: Pan Hot Springs
, Mon Feb 23 2009, 06:19PM
Mike how old are you and did you go to High School up here? I think I went to pan hot springs once. I don't know why I didn't go more then that. I knew a guy who had his gym in the building. Thats when I was there working on my abs.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
MIKE, Mon Feb 23 2009, 07:02PM
I was about 18 there. Yes I used the Gym. Gary Pohill and Mr.P pretty much let me have the run of the place. I am currently 46 I taught swimming and lifeguarded at Pan Hot for about 10 to 12 years, from 1979. The guy from Bad Bear Sports use to guard there too, cant remember his name right now. (Rick?).
Re: Pan Hot Springs
, Mon Feb 23 2009, 07:09PM
I think Mike Delano owned the gym once? Or ran it. My sister Gina went to the high school up here. You might of been to young to remember her. She was the Mascot one year.
I don't swim. I don't know how to swim and I'm not willing to learn. Its a phobia.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
butterflyaway, Mon Feb 23 2009, 09:12PM
Mike, I wasn't talking about jug fulls I was talking truck fulls. BS and non truths come back to bite people.
Nice to see a bit of history tho'
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Around The Lake, Wed Feb 25 2009, 07:41PM
Ray please tell your kids I said hi as I use to teach them to ski a few years back.
PS if you need help with the pools just give me an e mail, not long ago if you remember I ran the pools for the YMCA as there CPO and installed the salt unit for the Star Gazers inn
Todd
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Luna, Wed Feb 25 2009, 07:55PM
butterflyaway wrote ...
Mike, I wasn't talking about jug fulls I was talking truck fulls. BS and non truths come back to bite people.
Nice to see a bit of history tho'
Mike, I wasn't talking about jug fulls I was talking truck fulls. BS and non truths come back to bite people.
Nice to see a bit of history tho'
I'm going to call BS on this one - it pegged the BS meter.
A talking truck, full or not...BS.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 25 2009, 08:39PM
Wondered what the story has been with that place, been driving by it for years. Always seeing the steam coming off the pools on a cold morning. Sometimes the pools are empty and so are the ponds, then a new smaller pond with a fountain. Weren't you attempting to make an ice skating rink with the ponds? Or so the rumor is told...
Re: Pan Hot Springs
butterflyaway, Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:00PM
Luna, call BS all you want. We were trying to help and deal with them. Then the BS happened. We have never and would never cheat or steal from anyone. But we were accused in public. That's it. From that day on we quit referring business thata way....
It was one of those you make money, we make money situations. It ended quickly.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
butterflyaway, Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:15PM
Your a good neighbor talk travels fast. Your a liar and things can spread like wildfire. I have never spoken a bad word about them till now. Sometimes its best to say nothing. Had this business never said a thing neither would I have. But since they have, I must share my side. And as you all know I don't share much. But when something is wrong....then that's what it is....wrong!
I'm done. Nothing more needs to be said.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Luna, Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:21PM
butterflyaway wrote ...
Luna, call BS all you want. We were trying to help and deal with them. Then the BS happened. We have never and would never cheat or steal from anyone. But we were accused in public. That's it. From that day on we quit referring business thata way....
It was one of those you make money, we make money situations. It ended quickly.
Luna, call BS all you want. We were trying to help and deal with them. Then the BS happened. We have never and would never cheat or steal from anyone. But we were accused in public. That's it. From that day on we quit referring business thata way....
It was one of those you make money, we make money situations. It ended quickly.
Uh, you missed the joke there about the talking truck.
S l o w d o w n ...
Re: Pan Hot Springs
butterflyaway, Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:27PM
Sorry. I did see that. Your right, I need to slow down. Touchy subjects get things rolling that have never came out before. Ok, I am done. Just don't get me started again. Talking trucks have mouths....
But mine has now shut up!
Thank you for chilling me out.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Luna, Wed Feb 25 2009, 09:45PM
butterflyaway wrote ...
Sorry. I did see that. Your right, I need to slow down. Touchy subjects get things rolling that have never came out before. Ok, I am done. Just don't get me started again. Talking trucks have mouths....
But mine has now shut up!
Thank you for chilling me out.
Sorry. I did see that. Your right, I need to slow down. Touchy subjects get things rolling that have never came out before. Ok, I am done. Just don't get me started again. Talking trucks have mouths....
But mine has now shut up!
Thank you for chilling me out.
I'm sorry that you got upset! I hate that feeling from that kind of situation.
Sleep tight!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:06AM
Butterflyaway: Im sorry,I have no idea what you are talking about. talking truck? my mother the car? just giving you a hard time.Did you have a deal to get water from pan hot spring before me? I had the control of the property since 1993 when I optioned the property and I have never had anyone try to take(steal) water, who didn't have my permission to take some water. Jug's or trucks.
I do sell water and have had several contracts over the last several years. So if you do need some water do not hesitate to call me @ 909.436.9092 ounces to acres
Benny: We have been scratching and digging out the property and figuring out the system(s) and there was; we found out, many different operations over the last 89 years. We have been repairing and testing and the system to see what temps we could maintain in the pools; so we are constantly filling and draining them, especially this last year, as we repaired over 2500 feet of pipes and we uncovered the original drain valves that were abandoned in the 50's and made repairs there and now we can drain 880 feet out in the meadow over 300,000 gallons in about 4 hours. The pond out on the highway was originally designed to be a de-clorination pond where we would pump the clorinated pool water and allow sunlight and aeration to break down the clorine to allow the disposal of the water back in the meadow. This has its own set of problems and I set out to find a chemical free system to remove bacteria contributed by the swimmer, out of the water. About the same time that I built the pond, I made a small ice skating rink down by the pools for my kids and their friends and they had a fun time that winter. So I have tried since then to freeze the pond so they could skate there if we could. Two years ago we had a late season freeze and the kids had a snow day and my son and daughter; Roy and Laurel, did skate on the pond and got their picture in the paper. We have only been able to skate one day last year when it got cold enough to freeze. The problem is that when we try to build up the ice the hot water melts it all. I do plan on using the pond for cycled water from the pools ( we need to move fresh heated water through the pools to maintain temps), and the original owners, applied for and received "patents" in 1919 for the construction on an system hand dug ditches to spread water east over and around the meadow. I have been using these surface drains for water disposial since 1993 and they are part of the Conservation Managenent Plan for the Pan Hot Springs Meadow, that I am a strategic partner with the CSD (the surrounding land owner and the US Fish and Game that will protect and maintain in perpituity. My contrubution is cycled pool and space heating water, using a chemical free system that will actually distribute "cleaner" water than what is coming up artesian.
Around the Lake: Roy n Laurel say Hi. Roy actually got hired by the Park District this year to teach skiing. Really Cool !
Thanks for the offer of help, and I might take you up on that. I was always curious about the sailine system that was permited at the Inn. Salt generated clorine still has a residue and disposal issues and I could not use one at Pan Hot Spring in the open system that we have proposed. I did envision initially a solar photovoltaic powered ultra-violet biocide, but there was no commercial use then and still in its infancy. So I looked at many different systems installed around the world, and found many types of ozone generating systems that we being used in muni water systems and commercial pools that appeared to not alter the chemistry in any way.
About the same time I ran in to a guy in one of our local hard ware stores and cornered him in the parking lot and make him talk to me. I had overheard him remark about "Disney" and something to that effect. I noticed a "large" gold Mickey mouse ring on one of his fingers and sized him up on how he was dressed and made my assupmtions and struck up a conversation.
I an a bold face oppurtunist.
He turned out to be the Senior Vice-President of Enviromental Policies of the Walt Disney Corporation working through their Imaginerring? arm. He was struck with the scope and benefit of my proposed master plan that I had developed.
Hiking and biking with equestrian trail around the meadow and several acre pond(s) for a maintained water supply for part of the North American Pacific Fly Way, which Baldwin Lake is part off. This would also provide some flood control for adjacent private lands and public lands ( Pan Hot property is above the 100 year flood zone (ele. 6711') and allow public acesses and recreation.
Turnes out Kim Murphy has been instrumental in the application of ozone systems dating back to the day of Marineland in Palos Verdes. All of Disneys water features throught the world use ozone to clean ther water ;no clorine.
Fast forward; and now Kim has retired , to Big Bear, and he is a retained consultant for Pan Hot Springs permit with Enviromental Health.
We just found out that we have a small amount of bromide in the mineral water, 4 thousanths of a mg per liter, and using ozone will convert the bromide to bromate which is a potential pollutant, even though the amount is so small and not a health issue, the apperarance and the chance that an accumulation could cause a problem that we have come full circle and are planning a ultral-violet system that will not alter the natural Ph and chemistry for the habitat hydological support for the Conservation Habitat Plan which is a core 40 acres in the main Pan Hot Springs Meadow.
I am forming a 501c non profit for the Friends of Pan Hot Springs, and there is plans to include volunteers for everthing from labor to docents, and a mentor program for Big Bear students that include awarding passes for the student and their families for improvement with attendance, tardies, citizenship and grades.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:24AM
I am really happy that you are providing all this info. I think the rash I received was probably from chlorine, and the infextion was caused by the always moist concrete at the inside pool alowing bacteria to grow. Plus the pool was only used by us at the time so I imagine it wasn't kept up as it normaly would have been. Again good luck
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:24AM
and a terrible speller...................
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:31AM
sorry for the terrible spelling, kinda stream of consiousness, and some spell ckecker; thank god for that or no one would understand me.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:43AM
I wouldn't worry about the spelling we are all guilty, and can figure out what is said. Did I get you right in saying these are basicly the same pools? in size and location?
If my memory serves me the fence around the outside pool is the same or very similar to the one that was there. but I could be wrong.
It is nice to see it being ebuilt and hope you can get it open soon. But I do miss the stones grazing their horses in the meadow and the cows that used to summer there
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 10:13AM
all new fence. I have some pic from the day of the quake out at pan hot .will scan them an post later. Yes, they are the original pools just repaired after a local contarctor illegally dumped asphalt in the pools and I busted them and had them remove it but they broke the tops when they drove their equipment up on the walls of the pools to remove the asphalt
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 10:21AM
both pools
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Thu Feb 26 2009, 10:38AM
looking good are you planning on an inside outside pool area as it was? As I remember them there was about a 4 inch pipe that connected the two
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 11:10AM
Yes, but the first phase would be just 2 outside pools and office bathroom and showers, decking and lounge chairs, and grassy areas.
Then a building later that would house the old indoor pool and a expanded mens and womens spa, with sport. ie racquetball, weightlifting, rockclimbing wall free ex studio.
There was a underwater 6" pipe that connected the 2 pools so the out door pool was geting the indoor pools wwater that probably was why the outdoor pool was always so much cooler that the indoor one. remember the indoor "building" was just sheet metal and courrigated metal over a stick frame with no insulation. The door to the outdoor pool was just a rolling barn type door that did not even come down to the ground. The pools appear never have been as hot as they are now.
However, there was a oldtimer who told me a story that the water was so hot way back when that they had to mix cold water so you could stand the temp. Anyone ever hear that story too. Can't confirm it at all . But I've alway belived that there was hotter water to be had and I once did find a old map from a retiring supervisior of the County's Flood control District that showed Baldwin Lake many flood year high's of1915,1935,1938,1969, and on the map was a clear notation pointing out Pan Hot springs "hot well" and a clear number of 119 degrees. A normal hot spring temps should increase 5 degrees for every 100 foot of depth anmd we do not have a normal site. Large 700 ft deep acquifer w/ a hot spring coming up in the middle of it. Our wells are only 100 feet deep and have 600 ft more till we hit rock formations so it is extremely possible that we 120+/- water at depth.
waterquality.pptRe: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Thu Feb 26 2009, 11:22AM
plans soiund great I hope you plan on heating the buildings with the hot water.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 11:49AM
We want to be off the grid as much as possible. Space heat and snow melt plus the heat for the pool and solar photo-voltaic to run the pumps
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Dave™, Thu Feb 26 2009, 11:51AM
Thanks for this thread! It is very interesting reading and I wish you the best!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 03:08PM
Here's an interesting letter I received after I questioned the county about their position if there was an active earthquake in Big Bear Valley, specificly at Pan Hot Springs
Re: Pan Hot Springs
MIKE, Thu Feb 26 2009, 03:38PM
Do you plan on recreating the kiddy wall for the indoor pool? When I taught swimming there is was a real good safety zone for the very young ones.
I think the whole kiddy zone was no more than 2.5 to 3 feet deep.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 03:49PM
No kiddie wall saftey hazzard no submerged objects, plus the steps have to be changed too no intrusion into the swim area. we'll cut in new pop out steps to the side of the shallow end of each pool
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Thu Feb 26 2009, 04:16PM
I had forgotten about that wall. You guys are bringing back lots of memories. I can almost smell the place and hear the echos off the tin roof. and those ratty changing rooms.
good times
down here at the spa hotel besides the pool they have several large lounging jacuzzi's with different temperatures. usualy that is where the parents with kids usualy are. I think they may have a salt water. that is becoming the new "thing" for homes down here as well as water chillers
very busy place when temps hit 115 and reasonably priced.
you are going to save a bundle with the panels and heating. I think "true" geothermal energy is a very good form of green power
Re: Pan Hot Springs
butterflyaway, Thu Feb 26 2009, 07:00PM
I am so sorry PanHot no it was not before you, it was with you. Trying to deal with you and helping us both could have been a good thing. Then you accused us in a public place of "not truths" and tried to lock up our belongings behind your locked gates, It made you lose more than us. But that's ok. We know we are honest and will always be. That's what keeps us going stong. We will strive on honesty. Karma is what keeps the world going round and round.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
butterflyaway, Thu Feb 26 2009, 07:08PM
Just as a added note. I will not be responding on this subject any more. I said my peace as well as I can being a business owner and a moderator and I feel it is time my truck (with the mouth) and I shut up.
Sorry if I offended anyone from what they did not want to hear. And I thank the rest of you for letting me speak my peace.
Peace Out.....
Re: Pan Hot Springs
melvin, Thu Feb 26 2009, 07:17PM
so lemme get this right.. they put you in a hot pan and watch you spring out of it?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
butterflyaway, Thu Feb 26 2009, 07:47PM
Kind of....but they were hoping their spring would spung.
And if kind of just did just sprung in the opposite direction.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Feb 26 2009, 09:25PM
Butterflyaway: Now wait a minute, first you said that you were accused of stealing a truck load of water from Pan Hot Springs and now u accuse me of taking someone property?So which is it?
Sometimes the truth does come back to bite you in the a#@
The only people I had problems with was a old construction buddy who after loosing almost everything from substance abuse, showed up looking for work. I gave him some casual labor basically digging ditches. He showed up one day with his "girlfriend" who also wanted to work. After about a month they started to stay overnight in a shell of a trailer without my permission and had brought a s@#t load of trash and junk ( another mans treasure is another man"s junk) and had put it in the trailer. I told them they could not stay on the property and that they had to remove the junk from the trailer They were apparently homeless, and even though the agreed to not stay in the trailer, and agreed to remove their "possessions", they were still going in to the trailer after dark and leaving before I came out to the property( I caught them doing this) Next thing I know the police were called out to the property because they had beat each other up and they had fled. He showed up the next day and I told him I could not have this going on at my property and that I did not have any more work for them.The cops were looking for both of them. Then about a week later the police were again out to the property because they had come back to stay again without my permission. Apparently he had held her against her will the previous night in the trailer. ( there was a single locked gate on the property but no fencing, so you could just walk around it) He was caught and jailed, and I think sentenced for assault and kidnaping.I spent a couple of months trying to contacting family of the man so he could have their property but no one was interested in helping him now. So the junk was thrown away. Some months later the trailer was broken in to and a small amount of tools were stolen, and I filed a police report about it. Never did find out who had broken in.
I would still offer to help friends in need, but I am also a firm believer that you reap what you sow.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
melvin, Fri Feb 27 2009, 06:42AM
butterflyaway wrote ...
Your a good neighbor talk travels fast. Your a liar and things can spread like wildfire. I have never spoken a bad word about them till now. Sometimes its best to say nothing. Had this business never said a thing neither would I have. But since they have, I must share my side. And as you all know I don't share much. But when something is wrong....then that's what it is....wrong!
I'm done. Nothing more needs to be said.
Your a good neighbor talk travels fast. Your a liar and things can spread like wildfire. I have never spoken a bad word about them till now. Sometimes its best to say nothing. Had this business never said a thing neither would I have. But since they have, I must share my side. And as you all know I don't share much. But when something is wrong....then that's what it is....wrong!
I'm done. Nothing more needs to be said.
im sorry someone badmouthed you.. i hate that when it happens to me.. not good when someone lies about you in a small town
Re: Pan Hot Springs
KK, Fri Feb 27 2009, 09:41AM
Such intresting stuff!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Fri Feb 27 2009, 10:18AM
I'm sure there are many who do not know that San Bernardino has been heating many buildings with geothermal energy for at least 30 years and has a pipe that can be tapped into if it is in your area. with permisson and payment of course. Muck of the Hospitality lane area and more sits on a very dangerous liquifaction zone
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Feb 27 2009, 11:47AM
Bills Grandson: Your right about San Bernardino, some years back they drilled a new well downtown 1000 feet deep and it produces 190 degree temps. There is a mile pipeline for business down 5th street to tap into for geothermal apps. I found out about it when I looked at start up biz for acqua culture raising fresh water paniea's? shrimp using redevelopment fund and abandoned warehouse's off 5th street.
There used to be a hot springs resort where the Central City mall is now call Uribita springs that was very popular back in the 30-40's There was also a hotsprings resort up by Patton State Hospital call Harlem Hot Springs that had its own rail spur to take people from downtown San Bernardino up to the resort. Not to mention Arrowhead hot springs at the base of Waterman canyon. THe water from the spring's is also 190 degrees and there are steam cave on the property. Campus Cursade bought the property many uears ago and started to reopen the resort, but the moved their headquarters out of state, so they have tried to sell is a number of times. The story was that San Manuel stating that the hot springs were sacred to them and that the wish to acquire the property, but that they really wanted to move their casino's over to the 1500+ acre property from their exixting 650 acre reservation, and create new freeway exists from the 15 going right in to Waterman canyon, and that word leaked out before they made their offer and the price tag went up to over 25 million from only 5 million originally. They got mad and never made a offer for the property. A group now has a proposal before City of san Bernardino to annex the property into the city limits and develop a mixed use business and residential/resort project, but Im sure that has been put on the back burner with the state of the economy.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Feb 27 2009, 11:59AM
City Hall and the Police station and the hotel accross from the Carousel mall are all heated by the hot water, I don't know if the new federal buildings right there are using it too.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Fri Feb 27 2009, 12:18PM
San Bernardino was ver innovative with their use of geothermal and way ahead of it's time in the U.S.
here is a picture of the trolly that went to arrowhead springs. The arrowhead springs water was carried down from the springs in glass lined tank cars on the tracks.
The famous arrowhead was supposed to point to where the mormons were supposed to settle. They were told this in Utah but the leaders had already heard from trappers that the Arrowhead was there as well as a rich valley.
When the mormons first arrived they spent time up near devore before buying much of what is downtown San Bernardino building a fort and laying out the streets and building the town. Mormon towns can be recognized by wide streets and the A, B, C designations N to South and numbered streets East to west. They later added streets between and named them differently. They were later recalled but many stayed. It was at one time a jewel in Southern California.
Never heard of the Indians wanting the Springs but that would have been quite a deal then. I was so happy when they built the casino as they were a very poor tribe and really needed the money. I didn't like all the big black cars that were there from Nevada as it was being built though. I always thought it was amazing that the arrowhead (which used to be more destinct then it is now) pointed directly at the springs at it's base. My mother grew up in Colton on what is now property belongs to the high school one of her neighbors was Virgil Earp who was the first marshall in Colton. fresh from a rather remarkable stop in Arizona.
The Earps had grown up in the San Bernardino area before they went to Kansas
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Fri Feb 27 2009, 12:21PM
I don't know how extisevely it was used but there is a line running through that area. on cool evenings you could see the heat rise from various spots.
I don't know how well they have done pumping water from under the surface to help prevent damage from a severe eathquake. It has been a major concern for the area
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Feb 27 2009, 12:33PM
Here are the pics that I said I would post that were taken tha day of the quake on June 3 1992. If you note even thought the cinderblock walls and caretakers quarters fell over ( no steel or core pour) and the decking and coping has pulled away from the pools ( these were added in the 70's and were attached with only pencil dowl steel) the pools are actually intact.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Feb 27 2009, 01:00PM
Now here is a pic I took in August 1992 as I came out to Pan Hot Springs to look for the purported earthquake faulting and find out about what was happening with the spring itself. Rumor was that the spring was gone. What I found was no obvious soil faults and large pieces of asphalt with yellow stripes where the pools used to be; and the pipes out at the wells blown off and now spewing hot water in the air. Remember I said that before the quake that there was no artesian flowing water (rising to the surface under natural pressure), and they were using a submerged pump 80 feet deep in a 1982 well that McDougal drilled to move water into the pools.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 06:52AM
Wow Over a thousand views in just 6 days! I glad everyone finds the info interesting. Some great Native American stuff coming soon.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 07:23AM
What happened between 6:30 this morning to 7:20 the views jumped from 1003 to 2224? Whats up with that?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 07:24AM
2447?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Feb 28 2009, 08:50AM
panhot
I was wondering what kind of situations you faced with building with digging due to the large amount of indian artifacts in the area.
Long ago I read something that has always stuck with me and I wonder if you have any information on it.
The article mentioned that saber toothed tigers were once in the area. Do you know if any remains from that time were actualy found on the premises?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 01:08PM
Bill's Grandson: First because we are fee simple private property, the protocols are already established. Any items found on the property belong to us. In the event of finding remains, we call the coroner, as as to his/her finding, the remains turned over to the appropriate parties. The property is within a much larger State of California Historical Overlay that includes much of CSD's property and residential property west and north of the Pan Hot Springs. A review through county planning will look at existing data regarding historical issues and we will no doubt have a required monitor when we do our new construction work.
I am Chiracaua Apache on my mother side, which is a Uto-Azteckan peoples, who first settled the Great Basin; and then spread though the southerwestern United States;and that they also share the same Shoshonian based languages as the Southern California Indians that included the Serrano Proper, and the Greater Serrano, together with groups that are from as far away as the Luiseno-Cahuilla to the Gabrielino.
I had always felt that I had two feet in different worlds. When I was in my youth, I went to Witayapies( Sioux for Welcome), and made regalia and danced. I spent several of my school vacations working on a number of resevation as a volunteer. I learned stories and songs. And I formed very strong spirtual beliefs that I carry with me to this day.I knew that when I bought Pan Hot Springs that it was a very special place. I also knew the importance to honor the the history of the springs and the people who honored it. I knew the stories that the Serrano proper came to the springs. But other than that all I new was that they were just that: stories. Those stories took me on a long and very interesting journey from, Southern California Indian resevations, tallking to the elders, to Universities libraries, including Cal State San Bernardino's exellent ethnology collection,and Berkley's Kroeber Hall. A.L. Kroeber,who was the author of the preemient 1919 Handbook of the California Indians,which I own, together with a number of turn of the century published ethnologist and contempory authors, both Indian and modern historians. That led to another search for unpublished material by ethnographer J.P Harrington who worked for the Smithsonian Institute , who spent 30+ years in the field interviewing elders accross the United States. He came to the San Bernardino mountains on two trips: one in 1915 with Santos Manuel ; the last Kiha and Paha( Chief and Medicine Man) of the Yuhavitiam clan ( Yuhav= Jeffery Pine; Tiam=people). Most native american tribes where surprise when the white man asked who the were. They replied " Why, were Human Beings of course!", and they took up names for themselves from where their traditional villages were, or land they were from; and in this case the ,Yuhavitiam's, regular year round village site was in the Santa Anna Canyon, above Seven Oaks, just below a unique low altitude grove of Jeffery Pine growing there. Kroeber list over 20 different, autonomous, totem societies, clans living in the canyons of the San Bernardinos just below the snow lines and above heat of the plains and desert floor. These peoples became know as the Serrano This is Spanish for Little Hills, indicitave of the foothill locations of their villages. And the second one in 1917 with Santos Manuel's son; Thomas. On that trip, Harringtons wife accompanied them, and from that trip she wrote and published a book titled " A Conversations with an Angry God"; of which I have not found a copy of as of yet. Anyone who may have or know how to get a copy of that book I would be greatly appreacitive to here from them. On the second trip Harrington was able to gather confirming information from the first one with Thomas's father and new material about the later period site of Thomas's camps.
Ultimatley, after finding a study for the US Forest Service, from a private Palo Alto think tank, titled "Names and Places of the Native Americans in the San Bernardinos" that excerpted J.P Harrington's material, I found out that there were over a million un-edited, un-published pages of Harrington's material stored in the Smithsonian's Museum of Natural History on the Mall in Washington DC. I made a call to the museum and inquired if I could get access to that material. I was transfered to a curator and I explained my interest in Harrington's material and he said that all I had to do was come down early and get signed in through security. ( and he would be happy to let me review the documents.
Well, I did go to DC, and I got there early,( at 7:00am downtown DC you could shoot off a cannon down the street and not hit anyone) and got a Betty Davis parking spot right in front of the front door of the Museum of Natural History. No one seem to be around and I tapped my keys on the front door; and a guard came up and opened the door. I told him of my appointment with the curator, he brought me in and had me wait as he made a call. In just a few minutes, the curator came and and he took me to have me fingerprinted and a picture taken, and I was presented with a visitors badge with my photo on it. He then turned and we walk up to the dark and empty halls of the displays and abruptly turned and faced a elevator I did not see. The doors opened and we went down 3 stories underground; and when the doors opened , there was a vast collection of windowed rooms lit with bright fluoresent lighting. I was ushered into one of the rooms that had a long wooden table that had small wooden open topped boxes scattered at intervals on the table something in them. He showed me a Microfiche reader in the corner where he had already brought out the fiche that was from the period when Harrington was in Southern California. He explained that after finding the corresponding numbered codes to the material that I wanted to see, I was to write down on small note paper supplied; and an assistant would go and collect what turned out to original documents;and that I was to use the disposable linen gloves in the boxes on the table to handle the documents. I was dumbfounded! First there we at least 50,000 documents on file and then after speed reading the microfiche, and actually finding the codes to his trips to Big Bear, here were Harrington notes , literally, written by hand, stained by coffee and who knows what, both in the margins and all over the paper, notes that included phonetic: Spanish ( These were Mission Indians who were forced to learn Spanish: Santos Manuel was supposedly born at Mission San Gabriel to a Yuhavtian Serrano father and Piaute mother) together with phonetic Serrano names, and English explainations and groceries and supply lists. How was I going to make any sense of this?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 01:24PM
Craig: Can the view counter be right? Now over 3298 view in just 6 days? amazing!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Feb 28 2009, 01:52PM
I love the history of the area and have about 90% of a book on the valley and the indians who shared it during the summer. some of it set near pan hot around the mid 1800's as their world began to really change. Once I get some transportation and can finish my research I may pick your brain a bit. Native American history is very interesting My grandfather was half Sennaca but I never was told this. Back then there was shame still attached to it. I remember as a kid always being a cowboy in our battles.
If you haven't been there yet you should check out the Heritage Room in the smiley library in Redlands. They have a very good collection for researchers.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Feb 28 2009, 01:57PM
sometimes the counters don't make sense when you see there are only a few people on line . But there is a great interest in area history as you can see a lot of visits to some of these threads in the history area
I found this at the bottom of my home page
"There are 59 new posts since your last visit. (You have read 61 of these posts.)"
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 02:16PM
Bills Grandson: Yes I have been to the Heritage Room at the Smiley many times and also the California Room at the San Bernardino's Central Library off E Strreet, and the Malki Museum on the Morongo Resevation, and the Palm Springs Library Downtown that has good stuff too.
I know that I looked and responded to at least 100+/- views but I don't think I could if I wanted to view over 3000 views.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Feb 28 2009, 02:49PM
Bills Grandson: Yes I too had heard that some fossils had been found at Pan Hot Springs and I remember seeing a litte mention in one of the Remember When articles in the Grizzley many years ago I contated the Grizzley and the former writer of those articles and both did not has any info about it. I was offered to look in the archives of the Grizzley's and I was horrified whem I went and looked and found a large number of papers stuffed into a closet at the paper and was unable to find anything about the story.
As I remembered it, the story was that when the hand digging of the pools were undertaken(1919-1921) they found a few number of fossils, and that the Museum of Natural History in Los Angeles was contacted. They sent up 2 curators to examine the finds and found that they were from a sabertooth cat and a giant sloth. They took the finds back to the museum and that there was no more info about them. The trail seemed to go cold there. As I am known to do; I picked up the phone and called the Director of Paleontology, and he answer his phone( amazing who you can just call) I asked him about the story about the purported finds at Pan Hot Springs and he said no that it was about finds that were found on the eastern shore of baldwin lake and that they were supposed to be that of a mammoth. I told him that I was aware of the story of the finds on the east shore of Baldwin Lake , but this one was to be at Pan Hot Springs. He stated that he would be interested to find out if the Pan Hot Story was true because it would be the only find that he knew of that had both of those species at this altitude. He said that he would ask around and that there was a few oldtimers still at the museum and they may know more about it. He said that he would call me if found out any information. About 2 weeks later he called me back and did in fact confirm that indeed that there were finds of those species at Pan Hot Springs back then ( remembered by one of the oldtimers) and that unfortunately he did not know where to start to look in their vast underground vaults. He did say that they were from a time of about 25,000 years ago at that with the new aluvium a depth of 12 feet would be about right. 1' new aluvium would equal about 2,000 years. I remember that in a previous post i sais 1' = 100 years, and that was incorrect that should be 1'= 1000 years. In the new aluvium fan of Van Dusen Canyon it would be about double.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Feb 28 2009, 02:59PM
They have a statue of a saber tooth in yucca valley so it would not be much of a stretch to see them travel that distance. I think I heard it when I was in grade school wich would have been pre 1960. I remember the sloth, but not the mastadon
I have heard that about the grizzy and that is so sad. There were some great articles going way back in the Grizzly, and some of the other papers that preceded it. A great disservice was done when they didn't keep them. I have a few old copies from here and there and they are fun to look at food, home, and land prices from way back when.
If we knew then what we know now...
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sun Mar 01 2009, 05:24PM
PanHot
If you haven't done it already check out the historic photo section just below this thread.
as well as the photo/media gallery there are some great old pictures posted. Radha has been getting some great pictures and another member has supplied some great really old pictures of the mountains
Re: Pan Hot Springs
psm, Mon Mar 02 2009, 05:13AM
I am so happy to learn about the area These posts ave been very interesting. Thanks for the lessons
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 02 2009, 08:23AM
I glad people are enjoying these post. As you probably can tell Pan Hot Springs is one of my favorite subjects. Sometimes though it seems like analysis to paralysis. I enjoy the academia, and several folks sugessted that I write some books, and I say I hope I live long enough to write them, but I just really want to have people come and enjoy the waters and have that little bit of respite. I do personally get a reward when I have a positive effect on some's life, even though it may not be life changing, which is possible, it does allow me to make a difference. I believe that Pan Hot Springs can be that positive effect.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Craig ⭐, Mon Mar 02 2009, 07:22PM
PanHot wrote ...
Craig: Can the view counter be right? Now over 3298 view in just 6 days? amazing!
Craig: Can the view counter be right? Now over 3298 view in just 6 days? amazing!
Hey PanHot. Its now over 6000, and its correct. This is some great history and obviously it shows by the interest in it. Thank you so much for this contribution to the site! This is the kind of stuff SCM is all about.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 03 2009, 08:39AM
Craig: I'm utterly amazed at the response. almost 7,000 now. Is this the most views in the shortest time for SMC?
Here's one of the really special pics that I have:
This is "Prospecting for Hot Water at Pan Hot Springs". This in the meadow in 1917 drilling with a Scottish Wim drilling rig. That is a hand wrought 16' x 8" diameter steel drilling bit that is turned by the animal who walks in a small circle and turns the cable around and the operater slowly drops the bit and drills the length of the cable deep. This bit drilled wells throught Western United States at the turn of the Century
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 03 2009, 08:40AM
Click on the pic for the larger version
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Deb Doodah, Tue Mar 03 2009, 12:09PM
PanHot wrote ...
Craig: I'm utterly amazed at the response. almost 7,000 now. Is this the most views in the shortest time for SMC?
Craig: I'm utterly amazed at the response. almost 7,000 now. Is this the most views in the shortest time for SMC?
I just wanted to explain that those may not all be unique individuals viewing the thread. Anyone who opens the thread adds to the view count. So if I open the thread 20 times to view new entries, the count goes up 20.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 03 2009, 12:54PM
Debbie Doo: Thanks, I was pretty sure that there was not 6,000 plus different viewers, I posted over fourty times and clicked back to view comments at least a hundred times myself, but u gotta have some sore fingers to click in almost 8,000 time now. Just over 1,800 views since yesterday. still pretty amazing to me.
Here's another unique pic that I have not seen anywhere else:
"Swimming in the pool at Pan Hot Springs" This pic had to have been taken after the Fire in 1935? that destroyed the original Building and before the son in law built the new ones. This is the outdoor pool looking north towards Gold Mountain. The original Buildings took over two years to build and incredibly was the largest building in San Bernardino county at the time at over 22,000 square feet. It had the two Olympic pools, one indoor and one out. The Dinning room and kitchen with a large hall for socializing and dancing and 20 room hotel with private baths , which were a huge luxury at that time. The Jessurun's who had the resort built traved to Europe for the two years that the resort was being built, and collected furnishings for the hotel that included Persian carpets and Suits of Mail for display. I have also found remnants of Veronia Italian marble in the ruins of the property. I have a first person story that after the fire ;all they could do to clean up after, was to bury the foundations, and that they did not dig out the cellar of the kitchen; and that there may be some interesting stuff still there.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Luna, Tue Mar 03 2009, 01:43PM
I believe that a LOT of the "view count" is attributable to spiders or bots such as Google and other search engines.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 03 2009, 03:41PM
Well, thats probably not such a bad thing either.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 03 2009, 03:48PM
Pan Hot Springs Plunge and Inn 1932 There is supposed to be a one arm bandit in the background. link={e_FILE}public/ 1236123827_1771_FT85737_panhotpool. jpg]
[/link]Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Mar 03 2009, 03:50PM
If there isn't it would be about the only place on the hill that didn't have a few at that time.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Craig ⭐, Tue Mar 03 2009, 07:07PM
The counter for a particular forum (such as this one) increments by one whenever someone reads a page of it. So if someone logged in and read this entire thread from scratch, it would increment the counter by 12 (in its current state of 12 pages). Of course many re-visit a thread to catch up on the latest post and if its only the last page they are having to read, then it will increment the counter by 1.
Robots, yes, they do index pretty much the entire internet, but I try to filter them from the counters as they can be misleading (I probably have filtered about 30% of them from hitting the counters even though they still index the page).
Consider the thread counters as "page views". Still an impressive number for this thread considering its age.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
©ammy, Tue Mar 03 2009, 09:16PM
Yes, this is one of our fastest growing threads in terms of page views: [Click Here]
It's only behind a couple threads about fires (which always get huge numbers) and some other threads on history that have been up for quite a while.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Mar 04 2009, 09:51AM
All I do really know is that I am enjoying sharing the pics and stories and info.
Here is another great shot of Pan Hot Springs Plunge and Inn, that I had not seen before.
This is pre 1935, maybe some one could identify the cars and models and get a closer date.Its a pretty good panorama almost showing the entire length of the building. My guesstimate is that it was about 200 feet long, and the highest point was about 2 1/2 stories tall. A you can see in the upper left hand corner its written Big Bear Lake "Pineknot"( miss-identified) California. no other notation as to the source.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Mar 04 2009, 11:23AM
here is another in case you don't already have it
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 09 2009, 08:47AM
Bills Grandson: Yes I do have that Frasher pic. Actually I have that actual un-used Frasher post card that was given to me by my Real Estate agent's as a gift.( Kim and Bruce Boda 909.556.0901) They found it on E Bay. There is another one of these pics that is shot from up where the Church now stands ,(at North Shore and Paradise) Here's the copy that I have.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Mar 10 2009, 09:17AM
Hi Everyone, haven't posted much over the last week or so, alot going on/at Pan Hot Springs.
Doing testing of the new system: Pool temps averaging 78 degrees uncovered/ 88 degrees covered this winter (homemade 8ml plastic and duct tape 40'x80' out doors) Inflow temps holding at 94.
Forming a 501c , fot the Friends of Pan Hot Springs, setting up our first fund raiser, ( Raffel/Drawing for a House!!) More on this later which should be on a different thread.
We got back the repair profile from our pool engineering firm that says we can save the original hulls of the pools instead of shooting a new gunite "thin wall shell" inside of the existing pools. Really big deal save 100k!
The plan is to chip out the old plaster and expose the cement shell. Epoxy any cracks, skim a 1" gunite coat ( so the plaster will stick ) and plaster coat. We will do some minor shell changes to the steps and depth /length of both pools so the are aau/ncaa specs training size.We will be running new drains and skimmer system which hopefully also will have the ultra-violet system in line, with the filters. This will run closed loop, and a separate inflow/ out flow lines will bring new heated water in to the pools and a balanced amount out will be part of the distribution system of water to assist the hyrdology for the core 40 acre meadow east of Pan Hot Springs, as part of the Pan Hot Springs Meadow Conservation Managment Plan.
I did get pictures developed and burned from the copy negatives from the Fred Randsom Collection, and here's another unique one that many have not seen before. After the "Fire",which destroyed the entire 22,000 square foot facility, the Widow Jesurrun; her daugther, who as a child is purported to have came up with the naming of the hot spring as "Pan's"; which she was to have thought was a wood nynph, and the daughters new husband, proceeded to clean up the property by burying everything, except the pools, and opened back up. This would have to be 1933/34. It's looking north toward Gold Mountain over the "Outdoor" pool. Notice the Curb around the "Plunge" which was the design of the day. Now, it's a trip hazzard.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Mar 10 2009, 10:42AM
Here is a picture of my aunt from 1928 at the pool The little girl is Dorothy Jenkins who appears in a lot of pictures with her but I don't know who she is.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Rain, Mon Apr 20 2009, 12:12PM
is this still here today and if so where thanks for sharing
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Apr 22 2009, 03:05AM
rain
It is located just East of the mormon chuech. North shore near paradise
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Jul 10 2009, 10:50AM
Here's a neat copy of a story that ran in the 1960's about Pan Hot Springs. Ths was given to me recently from Joy Acoin (sp married name), who worked at Pan Hot for three summers as the "Snack Bar Girl" for Mary Sparadlin(sp), the daughter of the original owner's; the Jessruns. It was her husband Jerry, that told me the story of the "lost celler" of the original resort. They came up to Big Bear from Desert Hot Springs, to give me this and shared some great stories about Pan Hot. THeir daughter is Jenny McCoy, one of our local teachers, and her husband is Russ McCoy, owner of Mountain Water Co.I like to thank them very much for their sharing their history of Pan Hot Springs with me and now all of you.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Jul 11 2009, 11:08PM
It was nice to hear from Joy and jerry.
she was my teacher in about 3rd or 4th grade. And the first one who was "close" to our own age. I think most of us were jealose of Jerry for taking "our" girl. It did make his nephew robby's stock go up as we thought it would give us an edge. worse thing was we got stuck with listening to Mrs. E her substitue tell us the same dumb story she always told.
I'm sure Joy remembers working behind the counter at this place too at the families cafe across grom Gray's landing. This is our local game warden Dan Heenan
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 08:39AM
Pan's "apparent artesian geyser"
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 08:50AM
Any guess what this is?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
ROCK, Sun Jan 17 2010, 09:40AM
the clampets cement pond
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jan 17 2010, 10:42AM
PanHot wrote ...
Pan's "apparent artesian geyser"
Pan's "apparent artesian geyser"
Is this on the North side on the 18?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 10:49AM
No, the south.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:16AM
Here's another hint
Re: Pan Hot Springs
ROCK, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:41AM
a basement
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:50AM
That one was too easy.Doug. We did find the cellar that as never dug out after the fire in 1933. I have to thank Jerry Acoin for the story about the "lost Cellar" and the subsequent effort to find it. Her are a series of phots of the find.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:53AM
Purex Bleach bottle
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:56AM
Jenny(Acoin) McCoy her husband Russ and Brice Gordon helping.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:57AM
Malted Milk Tablets bottle
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 11:59AM
More good stuff
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 17 2010, 12:03PM
Just a start of the finds. We found almost 200 intact bottles dating from 1921 to 1945. It looked like it became a trash dumping site for the Inn
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bc, Sun Jan 17 2010, 12:12PM
Bottle collectors generally are most successful digging in, well, you know.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 31 2010, 09:42PM
Here's a few more after diggin' in the trash.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Jan 31 2010, 09:44PM
and these too!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
STAXX, Mon Feb 01 2010, 09:15PM
Hi Pan,
Don't know if anyone got you this yet, but you mentioned:
"...in 1917 with Santos Manuel's son; Thomas. On that trip, Harringtons wife accompanied them, and from that trip she wrote and published a book titled " A Conversations with an Angry God"; of which I have not found a copy of as of yet. Anyone who may have or know how to get a copy of that book I would be greatly appreacitive to here from them."
The book is actually called:
Encounter With an Angry God: Recollections of My Life With John Peabody Harrington
Carobeth Laird was the wife of the legendary John P. Harrington, one of a group of "new" anthropologists rushing to record the fast disappearing culture of the aborigine Californians. Native studies was not considered respectable work by establishment academia.
It's available on Amazon as well as other places around the web.
[Click Here]
I PM'd you too but figured others might like the info as well
peace
mgh
[Click Here]
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 08 2010, 08:05PM
Got Water?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Around The Lake, Mon Mar 08 2010, 08:11PM
Nice photo Ray
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Fri Mar 12 2010, 09:18PM
These pictures are great.
I was researching names in Fawnskin , and found the name Emile C. Jessurun as the owner/builder of Pan Hot Springs. What I found out about his past was very interesting. If anyone knows more please reply.
The builder and owner of Pan Hot Springs was Emile Charles Jessurun. He was born on January 13th 1875 in San Francisco. He married Olive Tuttle on November 16th 1896 in Chicago. Thier daughter Estelle May was born in June of 1897 in Illimois. Emile while in Chicago had at least 50 of his photos copyrighted and he also had a patent on a process for photos in newspapers.The Jessurun family, along with Olive's mother moved to Manhattan where Emile operated a photography business.
They had moved by November 1916 to Los Angeles, designed and constructed the bungalow complex known as Alvarado Court. Alvarado Court was in a very nice area and many of the movie studio's wealthy lived at the court. All was great until the day that William Desmond Taylor was murdered at the court. The Taylor murder has never been solved, and still remains a mystery. There has even been a movie made about the story. According to several newspaper stories, Taylor was found in the morning by his male servant shot in the head. Now several people that lived at the court heard a sound like a back fire, but no one realized that Taylor had been murdered. Taylor was a very unique person, he wanted to clear the movie studio's of the drug pushers. His friend (some thought girlfriend) was on drug's and Taylor was sending her to what we now call Rehab. So perhaps, he was killed by a hired hit, or as most think was killed by a very young women. The woman was in love with him, and he felt that she was too young. He had told his friend the night before that she had come to his apartment late at night to tell him how much she loved him. The next night he was shot. Some think that she came the next night with a gun to kill herself, but in the end she killed him. One person said they say a man but it could have been a woman dressed like a man. This murder was written about in the papers. It was thought that the DA took a pay off from the young girl's family. The young girl was never charged. After the murder, Jessurun came to Big Bear and purchased the land for Pan Hot Springs, built the hot water pools and financed the construction of a sanatorium, then he died of a heart attack in August of 1926.
Stephen Chalmers an author knew and liked Jessurun's widow, he wrote a story about the legend of Pan Hot Springs. If anyone is interested I could post this as well.
I also want to say that Ray is great, I think he is a great researcher thanks for all you shared it keeps history alive in the valley.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Sat Mar 13 2010, 09:51AM
Eileen
pleae post the legend. and thanks for the history lesson. That murder has been in many diffrent movies over the years.
funny how there are so many ties . sort of like the 6 degrees of seperation.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 10:29AM
Eileen- Yes,yes I too want to hear Chalmers "Legend of Pan Springs". Thanks so much. What a great story on the Jessuruns, fills in more of the history on a unique property like Pan Hot Springs. If you don't mine I'll post a copy of one of E.C.Jessuruns post cards that you sent me.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 10:44AM
Here's a couple of new Pan Hot Springs photos I think. One's out of the Peter Pan Club Sale's Brochure, click on the pick to clearly see. I'll scan more of this beautiful "Book" later.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 15 2010, 10:53AM
mgh wrote ...
Hi Pan,
Don't know if anyone got you this yet, but you mentioned:
"...in 1917 with Santos Manuel's son; Thomas. On that trip, Harringtons wife accompanied them, and from that trip she wrote and published a book titled " A Conversations with an Angry God"; of which I have not found a copy of as of yet. Anyone who may have or know how to get a copy of that book I would be greatly appreacitive to here from them."
The book is actually called:
Encounter With an Angry God: Recollections of My Life With John Peabody Harrington
Carobeth Laird was the wife of the legendary John P. Harrington, one of a group of "new" anthropologists rushing to record the fast disappearing culture of the aborigine Californians. Native studies was not considered respectable work by establishment academia.
It's available on Amazon as well as other places around the web.
[Click Here]
I PM'd you too but figured others might like the info as well
peace
mgh
[Click Here]
Hi Pan,
Don't know if anyone got you this yet, but you mentioned:
"...in 1917 with Santos Manuel's son; Thomas. On that trip, Harringtons wife accompanied them, and from that trip she wrote and published a book titled " A Conversations with an Angry God"; of which I have not found a copy of as of yet. Anyone who may have or know how to get a copy of that book I would be greatly appreacitive to here from them."
The book is actually called:
Encounter With an Angry God: Recollections of My Life With John Peabody Harrington
Carobeth Laird was the wife of the legendary John P. Harrington, one of a group of "new" anthropologists rushing to record the fast disappearing culture of the aborigine Californians. Native studies was not considered respectable work by establishment academia.
It's available on Amazon as well as other places around the web.
[Click Here]
I PM'd you too but figured others might like the info as well
peace
mgh
[Click Here]
Is this the book?
[Click Here]
Re: Pan Hot Springs
MtMan, Mon Mar 15 2010, 01:55PM
So, what is the status of re-opening the pools? We had our children learn how to swim there, back in the 80's. All these years I just thought what a wonderful source of natural hot water and going to waste now. Little private cabins would be great to rent with their own little hot tub. Looking forward to swimming there again. Please let us know when. Thanks.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:04PM
bkap- Yes that is the Carolbeth Laird book. I did find and buy one and found it very revealing as to the "obsessed" nature of J.P. Harrington. There is a hard and frank passage regarding the vist to Big Bear, J.P. Carolbeth, and Manuel Santos, which I found to be probably a honest inter-personal account. But little else in historical account.
Mtman- That's the 6.4 million dollar question. Not really, but it seems like it.
Current status:
Plans sumitted and fee's paid to San Bernardino Land Use Services for a repair of the two pools and construction of a Restroon and Shower building, together with all the ancillary requirements.
San Bernardino County Health Department has carried our "Chemical Free" water treatment system to their counterpart in the California State Health Department for approval for the first public pools using Ultral-Violet bio-cide together with a hyper filtration and 24 hour change over with fresh geothermal water. This system was approved by the Department of Interior and the US Fish and Wildlife as part of the Pan Springs Conservation Habitat Management Plan inconjuction with the Big Bear CSD.
Pan Hot Springs has been in negociation with the local water agencies , since last fall,to partition and sell some significant ground water rights, that would provided the necessary funding of the constructions cost related to the reopening of the pools for public use again. Currently there is no commercial loan monies to be had.
Construction water sales are scheduled to resume this springs with several large projects on the books that will generate income for the property and the effort to reopen.
As little luck and a prayer, we could be working on the repairs this spring.
Here is the Peter Pan Sales Brochure I said I would post.
Enjoy
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:05PM
page1
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:08PM
pg3
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:09PM
pg4
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:09PM
pg5
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PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:10PM
pg6
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:11PM
pg7
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:13PM
pg8
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PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:14PM
pg9
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:15PM
pg10
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:16PM
pg11
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:16PM
I found a few facts about Pan Hot Springs. In the Redlands Daily Facts on 11/3/1919 there is a story about plans for a new resort in Bear Valley. The resort was to be modeled after " the lines of the Mission Inn in Riverside. Mr. Jessurun was attempting to complete the deal for the purchase of 40 acres of land from Ben Johnson a the northwest corner of Baldwin Lake. Jessurun wants the warm spring for a bathing plunge in connection with his resort. It was reported that the 40 acres was bought for 16,000.00.
Jessurun loves Bear Valley and claims that it is the most beautiful spot he has found that is accessible to the public.
B.G. Holmes wrote a book, thats title I can not remember (help if you know the title) and had old timers write about the earlier days of Big Bear. One of the stories was written by Estelle Jessurun Spradling (daugther of Emile). She states the following: My father and I came to Bear Valley on a short trip about 1919 in a fast sports car and bought an acre close to the lake in the Fisher Tract through Mr. Holmes. Later we built a better than average house of three baths in the form of a letter "H." (Eileen's question, Did this later become B.G. Holmes cabin and was it located where the Lagountia Timeshare is now?) For a time we lived in this, but my father found Mr. Johnson who owned some sixty acres adjoining Baldwin Lake which had on it a hot spring, which my father thought could be developed. So an exchange of properties was the result, and we put down a well and built houses, the hot spring was enlarged and a plunge created. A little revenue resulted from public use. Later, father built another plunge and a hotel adjoining, his death occuring before it was quite completed. Mother and I finished same and carried on under the name of Pan Hot Springs, but had a disastrous fire. Are there pictures of the "houses" before the lodge was built? In my thinking Pan Hot Springs, first had houses, than he built the lodge to look like Mission Inn, then it burned and a much more modest structure was built. Is this correct?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:19PM
pg 12
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:20PM
pg13
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:34PM
Eileen- I have seen a photo of the Pool buildings before the Inn and Hotel were built, and there are a few small out buildings, but no houses to been seen. The property is now only 5 acres, so some of the houses in the neighborhood could be ones the the Jessuruns built. There was one house, across the highway, that was a large beautiful home that was built in a "H" I had been inside of that house, and it burned down some years back. It had a cellar, and great native rock work with a great two sided fireplace that opened to the dinning room and the living room too.
After the fire in 1933, the more modest building were built to house the pool and the Bathrooms and Showers and that is what most people remember as Pan Hot Springs that ran every summer for almost 60 years!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Mon Mar 15 2010, 07:47PM
Here is the legend of Pan Hot Springs. I had someone helping me one summer and she forgot to write the source on some of the things that she copied. The legend was in a small book with other legends about the San Bernardino Mountains, The Great Arrowhead, The Legend of Pan Hot Springs, and the Legend of Castle Rock, and Sunset in Arctic Circle. I would love to know the title and author and date.
The legend of Pan Hot Springs
Although most ethnologists believed that the early Indian marriage custom was for the most part by barter or "bride stealing," in which the buck captured his mate, screaming and kicking as he seized her unexpectedly, there was even then such a situation as "falling in love, and many of the Indians' legends are beautiful stories of romance and adventure, together with intrigue and scheming, wherein the loveimpulse was used by one of the other of the partner's to accomplish some personal gain. Such a legend is the legend of Pan Hot Springs.
This legend has as its background the tribal wars of its people. Desert tribes, in savage and brutal raids on the peaceful mountain Indians, murdered great numbers, stole women and children and robbed camps of hides and furs.
One great mountain chief had resoved to never give up the war and frequently led his own warriors in counter attacks against the desert settlements.
The chief had a daughter, who was more beautiful than all the other girls of the tribe. Her bronze skin, long silken hair and pearl like teeth must have given her great advantages over her less fortunate clan sisters.
Her heart ached and she grieved at the loss of her people at the hands of the raiding desert warriors..She sat long hours in the moon-light asking the God of Peace to bring security and peace to her people. silently and alone she made those trips to a secret shrine in the forest.
But she had been seen. Scouts spied on her from the desert tribe, and when a new young chief, promoted because of his courage and bravery, became the leader of one of the desert clans he decided to capture the mountain beauty, and make her his own.
With due plans, one night as she sat in supplication, the desert warriors slipped from the moon shadows, seized her and carried her back to their chief.
Her beauty was astounding and the chief called a grand dance of his hunters in celebration of the capture of such a magnigicent girl. His kindly efforts were of no avail and she refused food and frink. She was punished, and that too failed to bring complacency in the heart of the maiden.
Only the thought of her people and their distress filled her mind, and she devised a scheme. One night when the chief sat with her in his tepee, begging her to be his mate, she suddenly gave intent of surrender. In the ecstacy of the moment the chief was overjoyed. But she had a price on her charms, although her heart was softened by the stalwart chief and she struggled within herself to keep away a love which would blind her to the need of her own people. But she promised him her hand. She'd be his if he would make peace with her father and never more raid and pillage the people of the mountains. In a sort of mystic trance he promised and they set out together to the wigwam of her father, to smoke the pipe of peace.
When they arrived at the camp of her people she could hardly restrain the elder chief to listen to the bargain she had made. No amount of explanation could get the ountain chief to trade his daughter to a warring tribe who had already killed so many of his kin. A meeting was called of all the wise men and it was decided that the young chief not only could not marry the daughter, but that he must die, since now he was their captive.
The young chief was tied with thongs and a funeral pyre was made in the deep rescesses of a cave from which floated a stream of crystal clear water. The helpless lover was made secure upon the pyre and it was lighted.
The girl pleased over and over again with the angry father, and finally in a desperate lunge she broke away from those who tried to stay her sorrow, and running to the blazing death couch she flung herself beside her loved one. With her arms encircleing the brave, they passed together to the Great Beyond.
The Gods became angry then at the the father who had refused to accept his daughter's sacrifice to save his people from further wars and to help her to seek her happiness. Great rumblings were heard in the earth. Presently fires forced open crevices in the mountain and water, heated by the fires which the Gods made deepin the earth, replaced the cool clear stream, and ever after has remained hot.
So legend records gellogical disturbances of an ancient time.
When Tom Core wrote a story about Stephen Chalmers he stated that Mr. Chalmers wrote the story for the Jessuruns to encourage interest in the resort.
Love to hear your thoughts and read your comments.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Mar 15 2010, 08:24PM
thanks.
I have never seen any evidence of fighting among the mountain tribes. But I am sure they were raided by the desert tribes. Nobody stayed in the mountains year round but reired to the high desert in the winter. Stealing of brides was not as bad a thing as we would understand. It was a way to keep tribes strong by spreading the gene pool.
I have no idea how they understood the need for this
I am very pleased to hear of Ben Johnson as there is very little written of him.
He was one of my grand fathers best friends and Ben often worked with him. He is one of the money that built the valley but were left out of the books.
Acording to "fun with Fritz" I think Fisher credit's himself with building the lagonita lodge home.
Fisher was one of the owners of pine Knot lodge and I have many letters between he and my Grandfather. Fisher seemed intent on forming a group, building the property and ending up owning it outright. I think he met his match with the locals of Big Bear. He had no love for Ben Johnson and wanted my grandfather to fire him because he did more talking then working.
I never understood the ties between the peter pan club, and pan hot springs. There seemed to be a small connection more whats good for one is good for the other. The picture above in the postcard is how I remember it in the early 60's. nice and warm inside except near some 4 inch (?) pipes that ran between the pools. Outside always seemed extreamy cold. Of course we were there in the winter. scraped my foot one afternoon and by that night could not walk. plenty of bacteria. I never swam there when it was actualy open
picture shows Ben Johnson on right flipping trout in Bear creek, my Grand father Bill Kickerbocker,in background. Picture was taken by B.G. Holmes. I have another somewhere with the three of them You can see Holmes setting off camara remotly.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Mon Mar 15 2010, 09:30PM
Wow, your pictures are amazing, I had heard about Mr. Johnson but to see him, priceless. Do you have any photos of Emile Jessurun or Olive? When you read about these people it brings it to life when you see them in a photo.
What type of person was B.G. Holmes? It sounds like he wanted to take the profits for himself, but did he have any other traits?
I read a story about a Mr. Pierce who according to B.G. Holmes purchased the first lot he ever sold, but I really do not know if it was true or not.
Thanks again for your post, you are so knowledgeable .
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Mon Mar 15 2010, 10:48PM
I am learning more from these threads then I knew before. Just started a thread on B.G.
I have never found anything to stain his reputation.
My Grandfather was a partner in Pine Knot and I have minutes of meetings , and documents on the selling of parcels in town. The company seems to be have run with a heart, but there were dealigs and schemes among the partners to steer development to favor their parcels.
I have mentioned before that Monte Beauman told me a story about my grandfather having 6 bottles of whiskey to dring on the ocasion of the death of people who screwed him over. I think most were these partners. When we moved into the big house long after Bill's passing There were no more bottles left.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Tue Mar 16 2010, 05:18PM
I too am learning a great deal. I have one story about how the name was selected for Pan Hot springs but I am sure there are others and I would love to hear them.
According to the Grizzley 2-23-1945 E.C. Jessurun, felt the charm and beauty of the setting. The view of Baldwin Lake, with rosy tips of the desert mountains showing in the background, and the stately peaks of San Gorgonio and Sugar Loaf to the west was in inspiration. It almost seemed as though the pipes of Pan could be heard, playing softly to all nature lovers, calling them to come and play and relax in this beautiful woodland country. It was thus that the name Pan Hot Springs was chosen. I have a question "what are the pipes of Pan?" This article also states the analysis of solids made by the Smith Emery Company if anyone is interested I could post that as well.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Mar 16 2010, 05:55PM
located near the peter pan club. pan hot springs would be far in the background beyond the golf course to the right.
Pan
by Ryan Tuccinardi
The Greek god of shepherds and flocks, who was especially popular in Arcadia. He is a son of the god Hermes. He was depicted as a satyr with a reed pipe, a shepherd's crook and a branch of pine or crown of pine needles. He had a wrinkled face with a very prominent chin. On his forehead were two horns and his body was hairy. He was a swift runner and climbed rocks with ease. Pan belonged to the retinue of Dionysus.
Pan was also a god of fertility, unbridled male sexuality and carnal desire. He chased nymphs through the forests and mountains in the shape of a goat. Pan was not very liked by the other Greek gods.
I think they stretched the peter pan concept a bit to get the pan above to fit into the peter pan theme as we know it
picture below. many street names in bear city north shore mostly fit the names in peter pan story
modern pan was more like the puck of mid summer nights dream fame sort of a bawdy cupid type
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Mar 16 2010, 06:02PM
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Tue Mar 16 2010, 09:48PM
Did the Peter Pan Club come before Pan Hot Springs or was it the other way?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Mar 17 2010, 09:21AM
I am sure panhot, or Radha could answer that one.
my guess would be about the same time. But pan hot springs has been around forever.
When Peter pan club was formed owning property in Bear city gave you rights to all facalities. I was under the impression as a kid that pan hot had a similar arrangement. But I don't know for sure. Whatever the deal was it was not expensive to swim at pan hot. I think they made their money at the snack bar. Also there had been few improvements since it was built. It was down to the building pictured in the last post card posted. That was in the early 60's
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Mar 17 2010, 12:05PM
Pan Hot Springs came first. You can see that the Peter Pan Club was using the Pan Hot Springs Inn and Plunge as a sales tool for their land sub-division project in their sales brochure. I like the 1945 quote of E.C.Jessurun about the naming of the resort. I wonder if this is a reprint of an earlier quote from him because his death was reported as 1926.
Looks like I missed a page of the Peter Pan Woodland Club beautiful brochure so here it is.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Wed Mar 17 2010, 07:24PM
Yes, it was according to the paper from E. Jessurun. In 1945 it was Big Bear's centennial year (1945) and every effort was made to feature stories relative to historic and scenic points of interest throughout the valley.
It was not stated how they acquired the information, but I think that his daughter was still alive at the time of the article.
Do you have any other story about how it acquired its name?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Wed Mar 24 2010, 07:58PM
Hi Ray, I found the information about the Archts. of Pan Hot Springs
According to Southwest Builder and Contractor dated 10-13-1922 page 34 col. 3
Hotel-Big Bear Lake -Archts. Swasey and Mc Afee 1018 Hibernian Bldg. are preparing plans for a 2-story frame construction, hotel bldg of 100 rooms, each with a bath, at Big Bear Lake for E.C. Jessurun. Plaster and Half Timber exter. tile baths, hardwood and O.P. Floors, gas rad. heating, shake rf,: $150,000.00
This was a huge amount of money for the time. Does anyone know who the archts. were for the Peter Pan Club?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Mar 24 2010, 10:17PM
I have had this picture taken from a letterhead that shows something that was going to be built in Big Bear. I have alwys thought it was going to be on the Pine Knot Lodge property from the land as shown.
I wonder if this could have been the dream for pan hot?
looks about like the size given in your last post
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Eileen, Wed Mar 24 2010, 11:09PM
Hi, well I had posted a legend about Pan Hot Springs, it was printed in a book with other legends, such as Castle Rock etc.
Well, it was not the legend that Tom Core posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 in the Grizzley. So, after checking, I will post that legend as it was in the paper.
Back in the late 1920s Stephen Chalmers and his wife lived in a lovely cabin below the dam. Stephen was a well published author, and he chose this site for his home because the magnificent view overlooking Bear Creek Canyon was a great inspiration for his writing. This site was just below the highway where his house was among three or four other cabins located in this most unusual place. It was Stephen Chalmers who wrote the book, "Take A Chance, Tammerlane," a stirring novel about the gold rush days of Holcomb Valley. This story was turned into a play that was presented in the Moonridge Bowl with a cast of over 100 local residents.
Chalmers was well known to all the valley residents and was a good friend of the E. C. Jessurun's who had built the huge Pan Hot Springs resort in 1924. E. C. died in 1926, which left his wife, Francisca (Olive?), and daughter, Estelle, to carry on the business.
It was through his Indian friends that Stephen Chalmers learned of the unique legend of Pan Hot Springs. To preserve the story, he put it in writing for the benefit of Miss Jessuran who inherited the spa from her mother. Here then, from a recently discovered document, is the parable exactly as this author wrote it so long ago on June 22, 1931.
The Legend of Taruma
Part I
Before the coming of the white man there lived in what is now called Bear Valley, in the San Bernardino Mountains, an Indian tribe whose chief was Mokwa - a name, oddly enough, meaning "Great Bear." Mokwa and his people loved peace but were often forced to war by other tribes who invaded their hunting grounds.
Their principal enemy was Barualli, chief of a desert tribe, who offended by slaying game wantonly rather than of necessity. Mokwa sent a warning and protest to Barualli, who tauntingly replied that with the next hunting-moon he would kill so much game that Mokwa and his people would have nothing to eat but leaves and bark. He added insult to insolence by calling the Bear Valley Indians "Tree-Eaters!"
Mokwa's warriors demanded war. Great Bear himself was advanced in years. Kenau (The Eagle), a foremost warrior, secretly hoped to become chief but Mokwa willed that his son, Taruma, should fill his place.
Taruma was little more than a youth. He excelled physically in many things but was a thinker - a dreamer - a lover of the great forest, the lakes, the streams and all the living things there in. Over these he had a strange power. They were not afraid of him nor he of them. And he never hunted just to kill!
When news came that Barualli and his warriors were approaching the Pass which still gives access to and from the desert, Mokwa called his council together and commanded his son, Taruma, to be present. Mokwa told the council that the desert wolves were coming and that they must be turned back in the pass. Himself too old to lead, Mokwa offered his spear to his son and told Taruma to lead the warriors.
Kenau, chagrined, protested that Taruma was no warrior but "a woman" - a dreamer of foolish things!
"He is my son!" said Mokwa. "Let him speak!"
Taruma spoke and said, "But one thing I would ask: Why must there be war?"
"They have called us Tree-Eaters and they slay wantonly in our hunting grounds," Mokwa stated.
"Is the serpent to be blamed because it hisses?" asked Taruma. "If Barualli snarls, it is because he is a wolf. If he kills in our country he does wrong and this wrong should be made clear to him, but why slay him and his people? Should we not tame these wolves, even as I do the bear and the lion and bring them to my side? Peace, O Mokwa, is a greater thing than war!"
But Mokwa refused to listen. Only he repeated, "You are my son! Take the spear and lead my people!"
And Taruma, bowing silently, took the spear and led the warriors to meet Barualli and his tribe in the Pass that still looks out over the desert.
Part II
Taruma and his warriors were gone two nights and a day. No news of battle came to the Indian village, where there remained only women, children, and old men. Among the latter were Mokwa and the aged medicine man, Chetowaik.
Still no news came - until an Indian boy came flying with the word, "The warriors are returning!"
Mokwa and Chetowaik stood at the edge of the village to greet them. The old chief's eyes were dim. He bade Chetowaik tell him if he could see his son, Taruma.
"Nay, O Mokwa," said the aged medicine man. "It is strange! They come in silence, singing no chant of victory; neither do they chant the death-song of defeat. Stranger still - it is Kenau, the Eagle, who leads the warriors!"
"Kenau!" cried Mokwa. "Then Taruma - my son - has been slain in battle!"
"Nay, O Mokwa!" said Chetowaik. "For now I see him - Taruma. But they bring him bound-like a captive!"
"Bound like a captive? The son of their chief, Mokwa?"
"It is so," said the old medicine man, bowing his head for the shame of it.
When the warriors came to a halt before Mokwa, it was Kenau who spoke. "It was as I foretold the council!" he cried. "Thy son, O Mokwa, is a woman! He left us in the pass, advanced alone into the camp of Barualli and there smoked the pipe of peace with him who called us "Tree-Eaters!"
"Let my son, Taruma, speak!"commanded Mokwa
Taruma, his arms bound behind him, faced his father and said, "The Eagle's words are true, O Mokwa! With Baruelli I sat in council. We agreed there was room for all in these mountains - hunting for all - and none need to be the eater of trees. We agreed that Baruelli should hunt only to the east of the Pass, while we hunted to the west. Why, then, should we slay one another? - spill blood? Peace is a greater thing than war! And behold! We passed the pipe and the smoke of it lay about the wigwam like the peace of dusk at the end of the day."
"His words are as sweet as a doves call!" jeered Kenua, the Eagle. "But he is a squaw - a coward! He fears blood!"
"Speak, my son Taruma! - answer him!" cried Mokwa
And Taruma slowly lifted his head and said, "I fear but one thing, O Mokwa - blood - blood that is spilled in vain anger, as my people's never shall be!"
"Woman!" "Squaw!" "Coward!" cried the warriors, enraged while Mokwa groaned aloud, crying, "My son - a coward!"
Then his sorrow and shame turned to fury. "Where is the spear that I gave him?" he thundered.
"It is here, O Mokwa!" said Kenau. "The Eagle snatched it from the hand that would stain its brightness!"
Mokwa seized the spear from Kenau and cried in a voice of terrible agony and wrath, "Thus do I deal with a coward - even though he be my own son!" And he drove the spear with all his might through the heart of Taruma.
Part III
After the death of Taruma a strange sickness came upon Mokwa and his tribe. It swept the village from end to end, sparing few. Many died, and among the first was Kenau who had goaded Mokwa into slaying his own son.
Those who did not die lay almost helpless, crying for relief. Chetowaik, the old medicine man, escaped the disease and labored day and night alleviating the misery of the tribe.
After many days Chetowaik came to the wigwam of Mokwa who was groaning in great agony of body and mind. To Chetowaik the old chief said, "It is the Great Spirit's punishment for my son's offense!'
"Nay, O Mokwa," said the wise old medicine man. "The Great Spirit is angered that Taruma was slain. For in thy son, O Chief, there was the tongue of the Great Spirit that whispers wisdom. Rise now, O Mokwa, and behold a miracle! Many times the sun hath come and gone, burning on that spot where Taruma lies with the great spear thrust through him so fiercely that its head is sunk in the earth beneath his body. Yet he lies there as one who but slumbers, and smiles in his sleep. Even the blood from his wound is warm and congeals not. This, O Mokwa, is strange because Taruma is not as other men!"
Amazed to hear that the neglected body of his son, lying where it had fallen showed no natural changes, Mokwa reeled from his wigwam and went with Chetowaik to behold this miracle. Such warriors as were well enough to walk went also to see this strange thing; even those who could only crawl on hands and knees.
It was even as Chetowaik had said. Taruma smiled like one dreaming happily in this noon hour, despite the spear transfixing him with its head sunk deeply into the ground.
A great remorse smote the heart of Mokwa. He covered his eyes and cried, "Pluck forth the spear!"
A warrior attempted it but could not withdraw the weapon. It was as if only the mighty arm which had driven it could pluck it forth.
"This is my punishment!" groaned Mokwa as he grasped the spear and his strong hands drew it forth. "Now lift him gently - my son - Taruma," he said to the warriors, again covering his eyes.
As they lifted the body, a cry went up from old Chetowaik. "Behold!" cried the old medicine man. "The Great Spirit makes a sign!"
From the ground where they had lifted the body of Taruma - from the deep gash in the earth where the spearhead had gored - water bubbled! At first it was tinged red, but presently it cleared and shot upward in a fountain stream that broke and rained upon the bodies of the sick who had crawled to this spot.
Suddenly one of the sick stood up-erect-and cried, "It is the blood of the gentle Taruma! It has touched me! I am strong! I am whole again!"
The fountain of water, warm and sparkling, continued to surge upward. Falling, it created a rivulet which broadened to a stream. Finding a hollow place, it formed a pool. And there such as were strong enough brought those who were sick and laid them in the healing waters.
And the story was told by the council fires of the Utes, the Shoshones, the Hopis, and all the tribes east and west of the Great River. Not in war, but in peace, and with great awe and marvel, these came from far and near to purify their bodies and their minds in the Spring of Taruma - the legacy of that Indian youth who dreamed dreams and yielded his life for the greatest of them: That Peace is a better thing than war!
That men in accord are stronger than Hosts in Battle!
Does anyone know of another legend about Pan Hot springs?
Bill's Grandson- I loved the letterhead photo. It seems that many people had big plans for Big Bear Valley.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Mar 24 2010, 11:32PM
Eileen
that story makes more sense then the first.
I thought the leeterhead was funny because it looks quite a bit like Northwoods.
I Am glad you cam up with the link to the dam cabin being Chalmers. I had thought it was the home of a diffrent author that grequented the area.
in the 60's thw rode was more serpentine near the dam. where it goe's through the cut with walls on either side it had gone to the outside on the fenced in road that is still there. there was a road on that curve that led up to the the top of where that cut is now. There were several cabins on there. There was another on the turnout before the dam, and another further into the canyon. I think the one further into the cabyon may have been the writers cabin. In miy mind probably not the best place to live due to the canyon being cold much of the year and the noise of the water.
Thanks for posting the story. You are getting some great stuff.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Fri Apr 09 2010, 05:07PM
Dream from a dreamer.
panhot_colorrendering_3-29-10.pdfRe: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Fri Apr 09 2010, 07:31PM
PanHot
now that would be something to see.
I wish you luck.
I still miss the cattle, and horses grazing out there
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 09:41AM
Everyone like pictures.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 09:46AM
7:30 am
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 09:48AM
22 degrees
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 09:52AM
The pond out on Hwy 18
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 09:54AM
Lots of steam.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 14 2010, 10:08AM
Pano view over the meadow. The pools below and Sugarloaf mountain in the background.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Craig ⭐, Wed Apr 14 2010, 06:27PM
Wow, awesome shots PanHot!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Wed Apr 14 2010, 11:49PM
Great pictures. Have you enlarged the pool? I don't remember it as being that big?
how deep is the source of the water? and is there an end in sight oft's source of water short of it moving off it's hot spot?
And are there any harmful chemicals in the water:?
I can remember getting a rash on my chest a few times after swimming in the pools. I assumed it was from chlorine added (this was about 45 years ago)
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Apr 15 2010, 12:01PM
Bill's grandson- No the pic's I posted are of the pond I built approx 5 years ago up by the highway. Here's a pic of the pools after I cleaned them up for my daughters 11 birthday party.
USGS say that the water is over 8,000 years since it was last surface ground water, and that it is heated by a magma source 2 miles below sea level. Although the water is certified by the State of California as a artesian mineral hot spring, there are no "harmful chemicals" present. The mineral content is microscopic amounts ;some of them, if present in significant amounts could be considered harmful. Sounds like you get lots of rashes, you said that you got one on your leg from swimming at Pan Hot too. Actually with the levels of sulfur in the water it would act as an anti-bacterial agent. I am not sure that chlorine was used at Pan Hot 45 years ago. I know that when I first saw the pools some 30+ years ago they were not very clean, and with our ability to now change the water over every 14 hours the pools water is very clear and clean.
waterquality.pptRe: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Thu Apr 15 2010, 03:34PM
The thing with my foot was from a scratch I got when I tripped over a scuba tank and picked up something from the concrete near the inside pool. It was not open for the public but we were taking our scuba lessons from a deputy. So I imagine it had not been kept as clean as it normaly would have.
My dad used to go to tacopa hot springs NE of Baker every year or so and bring back water to drink. I don't know what it had in it that he liked. I believe he felt it had a healthy quality. it tasted sort of carbonated as I remember. Does your water have a similar strong taste?
Will you be able to open this summer for swimming?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Wed Apr 28 2010, 06:40AM
Bill's Grandson: No, the water has a slight smell, so you know that its not tap water, but I do have several folks that come by to take home water to drink and to use as a soak. There are supposed to be medicinal value as i have heard several stories about it's healing properties. As for opening for swimming this summer it looks more and more like we are going to be able to.
If the weather is nice this weekend I'm going to fill the "outdoor" pool and invite all the socal folks out for a dip.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Deb Doodah, Wed Apr 28 2010, 07:01AM
Yee-Haw! Everyone In To The Pool!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Around The Lake, Wed Apr 28 2010, 01:58PM
that would be so cool I hope all works out for you.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun May 02 2010, 10:13AM
Pools 81 degrees this morning at 7:00 am( air temp 34! supposed to get to 65 today). I'll have the gates open this morning for anyone who's the least bit interested. Jump in for a swim, stick yor feet in or just stop by for a visit. I'll be out there till about 2 or 3, depends if I still have some swimmers. If your not sure where we are at, we are just east of the Mormon Church on North Shore Drive, just past Paradise.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Craig ⭐, Sun May 02 2010, 04:07PM
When does it open?????????
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bc, Sun May 02 2010, 04:44PM
Excellent! This would mean our family probably will have 3 generations that have used the pools before I croak.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Around The Lake, Sun May 02 2010, 07:24PM
I missed it now I am sad maybe next time.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Deb Doodah, Mon May 03 2010, 05:29AM
I wish we had been UTH. I would have loved to take a dip. Maybe this summer.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Ernest T. Bass, Mon May 03 2010, 08:27AM
bc wrote ...
Excellent! This would mean our family probably will have 3 generations that have used the pools before I croak.
Excellent! This would mean our family probably will have 3 generations that have used the pools before I croak.
you croak..... as in like a frog? does your neck swell up, that looks so cool!
lack of sleep makes this funnier then it is.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun May 23 2010, 09:15PM
A little something to warm eveyone up.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Jun 07 2010, 07:55AM
Got two new skimmers, but they poop in the pool.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Jun 14 2010, 08:21AM
Pan Hot's going green!
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Jun 14 2010, 08:26AM
Have to blame it on Laurels 15th Birthday. Her and her friend Jodi had a combined B-Day Saturday. Thats Laurel in the front and Jodi behind her.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Jun 14 2010, 08:32AM
More B-Day Pics
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Around The Lake, Mon Jun 14 2010, 03:52PM
They grow up so fast.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Jun 17 2010, 10:17AM
ATL - Too fast in my book.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Thu Jun 17 2010, 10:25AM
Here are some reprints of ads for Pan Hot Springs. Note the "Heated Air System" that allowed the resort to operate "Year Round".
Re: Pan Hot Springs
karyl, Sun Jul 04 2010, 10:12PM
is this where they called the big bear?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sat Jul 24 2010, 07:21AM
Karyl-I am not sure I understand the question or get the joke. But I do know that the locals are welcome to come and swim for free today and tomorrow from 10:00am to 5:00pm Saturday and Sunday. Pool's temps are around 85 degrees. Don't bring pets, glass, radio's, cigarettes. Brings swim suits, sun screen, beach chairs, coolers, floaties, and a friend.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Sun Aug 08 2010, 08:17AM
This could be you.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
Craig ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 05:54PM
How much?
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Aug 09 2010, 11:11AM
Craig and everyone else: The pool is not open for business.Thus you cannot pay. I am letting the locals only; swim for free in my pool on Saturdays and Sundays from 10am to 5pm. No Glass, Pets, Cigaretts?, Radios. Bring chairs,sunscreen,bathing suits (no cut-offs or street clothes)sun shade if you need it.Coolers are ok too.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Tue Aug 31 2010, 08:24AM
Just wanted to share a nice copy of a newspaper story that Eileen sent to me.
Big Bear Life 5-10-1930
Pan Hot Springs Makes Important New Improvements
Extensive improvements which have been completed at Pan Hot Springs within recent weeks under the direction of Mrs. Olive M. Jessurun, owner and manager, enable this famous mineral water resort now to offer to the public a hotel service as complete and comfortable as that to be found anywhere and at the same time a rest and curative service which is perhaps not exceeded by any other institution any place in the country.
With modern hotel facilities, inn, bath house for hot tub baths and both indoor and outdoor plunges, large dance hall and lounge, Pan Hot Springs and Inn when opened to the public recently presented almost every advantage that could be desired.
Hotel facilities consist of 23 large, well furnished rooms, 13 room downstairs and 10 upstairs, each provided with hot and cold water and lavatory, and furnace heat. Guests are entitled to the use of plunges and baths and all other privileges at the resort.
An outstanding feature of the new improvements is the completion of the large bath house, 30x60 feet in dimension, with quarters for men and women, in which the highly beneficial hot tub baths may be taken. Provision is made for the installation of additional bath units in the future.
Another notable feature is the spacious dining room in which guests may enjoy the excellent dining service offered. The dining room is most modern in that it contains a grill where meats may be broiled over hardwood embers guests supervising the preparation of meats to their own individual taste if they wish. Large
Gatherings of clubs, conventions, etc., can be accommodated in the dining room.
The mineral water is from an artesian warm spring. It comes from a great depth at a temperature of 90 degrees, flowing into the plunges constantly. The water is radio-active. The principal chemical property is sulphate of soda, which is highly beneficial for rheumatism, neuritis and kindred ailments. It is also a healthful and pleasant drinking water.
Mrs. Jessurun has as her able right hand lieutenant and assistant, her daughter, Miss Estelle Jessurun. In fact, just who really is “boss” sometimes might be hard to distinguish.
However, Mrs. Jessurun and Miss Estelle are both to be congratulated for their success in bringing to its present completed state of development an institution which is distinctively an asset to Big Bear Lake and Valley.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Aug 31 2010, 01:09PM
PanHot
I havea question.
I had always thought the pool was in the building to the left in the above picture. But the front layout as I remember it was similar to the footprint in the building on the right. but no second floor.
When it burned. Did it all burn/ and they rebuilt just on the footprint of the building on the right?
There was only one floor when I was thereand beside the bump outs to the front there was only room for the indoor pool and the changing rooms to the North side of the building I think we entered through either between the bump outs or in the left one.
Re: Pan Hot Springs
PanHot, Mon Jun 08 2015, 09:28AM
Hello
I was given three photo albums to copy by Mr. Pohill, who's family owned and operated Pan Hot Springs for almost two generations. Some of you will recognize themselves and/or their friends.
Enjoy
photo_book_01.pdf photo_book_02.pdf photo_book_03.pdfRe: Pan Hot Springs
bills grandson, Tue Jun 09 2015, 04:19AM
Thanks for posting. These are the kind of history we need more of. Our knowledge could double with the photo's that are sitting in albums of the people who saw it happen. I went to swap meets with a friend and it was normal to see boxes of these family treasures in boxes going for little or nothing discarded by family who didn't appreciate what they had.
