Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Feb 10 2008, 03:05PM
Okay, in another post the question was raised about how people feel about gun ownership.
So here is the question; Do you feel American’s should own guns.
I'll start another one about the type of and how many you have.
Yes or no
edit: I should have had a poll on this.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sun Feb 10 2008, 03:10PM
1. Yes, you aren't a true American unless you own a gun, or go by the nick name "Gunney".
2. No, and it's unAmerican to ask.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Feb 10 2008, 03:11PM
YES!
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Sun Feb 10 2008, 03:30PM
im not allowed to play this game hahahahah
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Feb 10 2008, 03:47PM
yes yes of course yes
nothing more should be asked
mel just answer the question as asked, there is nothing personel about it.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Sun Feb 10 2008, 04:01PM
Absolutely. It is our right of course. Not only for self defense but recreational purposes. They key is to keep them in the hands of responsible people, which sometimes is tough.
I went through the legal process to purchase my guns, but sadly, I know many resources where I could get them on the black market and that's the problem.
I'm worried about certain parties getting into office taking away this right.
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Sun Feb 10 2008, 04:07PM
im really not allowed to play with guns..
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Feb 10 2008, 04:46PM
mel
that wasent the question he asked
Do you feel American’s should own guns ?
I assume meaning responsible citizens having the right to own them, but the way it is written isn't bad either
Still haven't heard if BBB has one or not.
Re: Gun ownership
Marty, Sun Feb 10 2008, 04:54PM
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Feb 10 2008, 05:07PM
Yes, I think that Americans should own guns.
Hey, did y'all see this?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Feb 10 2008, 05:11PM
Of course and in my opinion - you should own at least 3 because guns are different for different needs.
I've stated this before. When I was in Malaysia, I was asked many times "what is it like living in a society where everyone has guns - are you frightened??". My answer was "Think about it!! If you knew everyone had guns and were ready to use them - WOULD YOU ROB SOMEONE?". Their answer would always be "NO".
People outside the US don't understand that guns are not a problem - idiots and gangs members with guns are a problem. Some people turn into idiots. Other people are born that way.
-- enough said.
Benny - great answer buddy. I'm right there with ya.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Feb 10 2008, 06:54PM
luna
nice video, forever on dialup
like a streetsweeper on speed.
that is a gun that not everyone should have in their home....
.....just me
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Feb 10 2008, 09:13PM
Luna, that is one heck of a weapon!! Gotta love the technology.
Run bad guys - RUN FAST!!
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Sun Feb 10 2008, 10:07PM
You people kill me!
Oh wait. One day you probably will....it will be a horrible mistake, of course.
If you want to own a gun, that's fine. But just be aware that many shootings in this country are accidental, and hurt only friends and family members or innocent bystanders. I lost a brother in law because of a gun being in the wrong hands -- a convicted felon's.
There is no boogie man. The boogie man is us.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun Feb 10 2008, 10:21PM
Gun control = being able to hit the target.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Feb 10 2008, 10:22PM
inky
I have pulled on one boogie man, and taken a gun away from one.
sorry about your brother in law but bad things happen to good people.
the way I see it with guns is
it is better to have one and not need it.
then to need one and not have it.
most of the accidents happen with people who are not familiar with them. it is really tough with kids in the house. my kids were shooting early and we never had a problem. whats really bad is homes that don't have kids and someone who does visits. You relax to much without kids around
and that is dangerous.
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Sun Feb 10 2008, 11:48PM
We have to agree to disagree on this one, Mr. Grandson.
Too many weapons and too little education. Bad recipe.
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Sun Feb 10 2008, 11:56PM
Bob Cowperthwaite, was NOT a target, by the way. He was 34 years old, and his daughter was 9. And she saw him die in a street in Lake Elsinore.
He was born on 3/17, Saint Patrick's Day.
And I'm not feeling too kindly to your people this night.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 01:18AM
education used to be covered by the family. If you wanted a hunting license, and now I believe in California to buy you need to take a hunter safety course.
part of the problem is the more guns are supressed the less training there is, and urban crime and video games takes the blood and pain out of murder
this question was in regards to the bill of rights not to the right to murder anyone. Nobody should ever want to take a life. and having a gun should be to protect innocent lives.
I won't minimize your argument or hit you with quotes that you have heard a million times.
the one that I grieve is the McGowan family. If it was what it is said to be. that was truely senseless
I hope you will still acept your valentine day card real soon.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 11 2008, 06:47AM
Inky, I’m truly sorry for your friend and his family. If the perp. thought that he was armed he may have left him and his family alone. Gun control only keeps guns away from good citizens, the laws that do not allow every day citizens to carry guns opens them up to be victims of criminals that break the law by carrying gun the fact is in states that allow CCW crime is down. A criminal will pick on a person they feel is not going to fight back or can not fight back, if he had thought that your friend could defend himself he would not have been attacked.
We do have a choice in this country to own or not to own a gun it is up to the individual to decide how they want to live. I chose to own a gun and if needed to, to defend my family.
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:10AM
I do not need them. My ford pick up truck kills enough to feed a family of four. and also every time I go shooting I increase the demand for ammo that creates more production of ammo and intern lowers the price of ammo for the hoodlums. Government will take care of me. Look at what a good job they are doing with the borders. Are the instructions on the ammo box still only in English or are they like other products sold in the States???
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:12AM
We don't need guns in Big Bear.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:13AM
RIGHT!
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Mon Feb 11 2008, 09:31AM
My answer is yes!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:10AM
You have to remember that in times of need when you only have seconds to act the police are minuets away. Having a gun either equals the field or lets you end the threat right then.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Feb 11 2008, 11:17AM
Or potentially escalate it. If you are going to pull a weapon on a perpetrator, you best be intended to use it, a scary thought in most situations, but you are calling someones bluff.
Edited:
Read the book for your HSC (Handgun Safety Certificate) most of which should be common sense rules, but there are also some interesting points about when you can pull out your weapon and when to stand down, when you can shoot an intruder and when you cannot.
It's about 56 pages, and quite insightful. I purchased my shotgun for the mere purpose of trap shooting as a recreation, but it is a stopable weapon. I bought my .357 magnum, because of it's beauty, value & handling also as a recreation weapon. But arguably, yeah, it could take an eye out.
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 11:25AM
I could never agree with you more on anything else...
The day I need a gun in BB to "defend myself" is the day I move! I did not know BB is inundated (sp?) with so many home invasion robberies.
My disdain for guns is a result of having one at my head and being hit with it several times during a robbery while I was an assistant manager at a Ralph's in the 1980's. BTW, this robber purchased the gun legally. I guess it was his "right" to bear arms and pistol whip others. The scarey part came later when this guy did end up shooting someone that did not do exactly as he requested.
Europeans don't understand some Americans thrills with toting guns and neither do I....
Sorry about your relative Ink. THat just happens more than people think. I think the fact that you are more likely to know the shooter of a gun at you than not speaks for itself. I guess the loudness of the guns has caused this to be heard by deaf ears....
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 06:45PM
bbb
you still haven't answered the question
do you or dont you? have a gun that is??
(weapon to all you marines)
sorry to hear your leaving the valley.
where you going to go that you won't have to defend yourself.
France?
Re: Gun ownership
Moose Drool, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:00PM
Everyone should own a catapult. Neighbor disputes would be so much more entertaining, and door-to-door salesmen could be dispatched in a very satisfying fashion (if the catapult was positioned just right).
Remember: Guns don't kill people but farts might!
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:10PM
Dennis Knickerbocker, I DO NOT own a gun now nor intend to ever own one.
The other Dennis (I almost said the smart one
)...I might have to borrow that fart sign....
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:22PM
hey!!!
he got a double probation F thats worse then mine
so me am smarter aint eye??
I respect that you arn't one of those I got mine but you can't have one liberal's
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:24PM
Nope, I am a fiscal conservative and a political moderate. I am just up on this fence all by myself....
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:31PM
that b sum mity fan-c store bought words
looks like were on the same fence, is that you setting way to my left?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Feb 11 2008, 09:02PM
You got this all wrong..
The day you NEED a gun in BB to defend yourself is the day you probably die.
Brandon, some people like yourself resign your fate to another human in an attempt to be non-violent. Others, like me, intend to defend myself if needed or if my country calls on my defending it. Think of me as part of the voluntary US army - willing to help defend our home.
It's all about CHOICE and nobody like someone else making this decision for them and forcing one of our basic rights away from us. DO YOU LIKE RESIGNING YOUR FATE TO THE NEXT GUY THAT TRIES TO ROB YOU OR YOUR HOME? That's what you're doing by saying "I'm not prepared to defend myself". You're giving that person the CHOICE you did not want to make. His choice as to if you live or die.
You can say "times have changed and we don't need guns" all you want - but think about it - HAVE THEY REALLY CHANGED? What is the difference between threats from other govts vs. threats our forefathers experienced?? Imagine them fighting against an enemy or invading country - nah, that's never happened in our history - eh? This is one of the tennents that make America such a great country. "Don't Tread On Me!" - remember?? It is our right to own and have guns and this has been our way for over 200 years.
You have that right and CHOOSE not to exercise it because you feel no need to own one. Fine - no problem.
BTW, when you and Dennis are willing to have rational discussions about the "problems in the US" - we'll listen and participate. IN the mean time talking about IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE WITH GUNS is clearly demonstrating you don't understand the scope of the issue. For every idiot with a gun, there are probably 40+ RESPONSIBLE people that own guns (including US citizens and US military) and never cause a problem in their entire life.
So, have fun trying to convince me that 1/40th of the gun owning population is either crazy or an idiot and because of that the other 39/40 (RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE) should be forced to give up their guns.
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Mon Feb 11 2008, 09:14PM
My disdain for guns is a result of having one at my head and being hit with it several times during a robbery while I was an assistant manager at a Ralph's in the 1980's. BTW, this robber purchased the gun legally. I guess it was his "right" to bear arms and pistol whip others. The scarey part came later when this guy did end up shooting someone that did not do exactly as he requested.
I am so sorry that this happened to you, truly, I am. I may think differently it that was to of happend to me. On the other hand, if you would of had a gun at your disposal it may not of happened.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 09:25PM
Bmatheny
be careful throwing around the dennis's, there are two here and it gets confusing which one you are talking about
I know this will be lost on some, since they seem to have trouble with a few sentances, but it makes sense to me
[Click Here]
been there, done that and all I got was this stinking t-shirt
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Feb 11 2008, 09:41PM
Sorry Dennis. I was talking about Moose's "neighbor" comment. No harm I hope??
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:06PM
BRad, let's talk with the parents of the victims of Columbine, Virginia Tech, Jonesboro (Arkansas), and others that have had legally bought guns take away their loved ones. I don't personally care if it's 1:1000 (which I doubt), the risk is too high and the laws just allow too many freakazoids to have guns. If the society I live in needs the citizens to arm themselves to survive as you so state, then that's one society I would rather not exist in. As Cat pointed out, we don't need guns here in BB. THat is one reason I live here. I am perplexed how you and Dennis K don't understand that guns kill and most homocides from guns are from someone the victim knew. The rest of the civilized world is wrong and the minority of want it all gun slinging yahoos in the USA are right....OK, you have your opinion and I have mine....
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:18PM
bbb
I know you wont buy this, but a large part of the reason you don't need guns in BB, is because there are so many guns in BB.
I would not condone teachers having guns in school but if one had it may have turned out different.
there will never be a time that people wont do things like that and if there arn't guns they will find a way.
you and I will never agree on this, and I hope you are never in a situation that you may wish you had but i hope we can agree on other things.
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:21PM
Not one single one of my close friends (not on SCM ) in BB have guns. These are people with money and influence in many cases. The only people I am hearing with guns are some members of this board. Maybe I hang out with the wrong crowd.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:32PM
most people will not tell you if they have guns. I would guess that almost every scumbag has one, you better hope that enough good people do to.
It is a different age. "we" all grew up with cap guns, bb guns, ss's then hunting rifles. It is sad the political correctnes has stopped most of that, and giving them video games instead. like many things I am afraid that progress is not always a good thing.
where I am forced to live we have a killing at least once a week, and I doubt if any of them are leagel firearms mostly kids, minority on minority.
mel
he was my grandfather, and I'm finding out he was right about almost everything.
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:36PM
I don't think so, especially my really close friends who confide in me on more important issues. Some of them have small kids or grandkids and I know they'd never have a gun in the house. Maybe if I lived where you do (sounds like South Central LA) I would have a different opinion or I would work my ass off to get out to a safer place.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:42PM
desert hot springs.
wish I could work it will be better when the dem's get in and My disability will be approved. damn rep's won't approve it.
kids and grand kids definetly should make you be much safer with any weapons.
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:45PM
Desert Hot Springs has high crime?
Are the old ladies robbing banks or what?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:49PM
mostly gangs in DHS
banks all over the valley almost once a week, mostly robbers commute from L.A. they are getting some of them. lots of fast food places getting hit now.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 08:50AM
Ya know something - I'm almost willing to bet that about 50% of your friends HAVE GUNS and probably have not told you. Many people keep them is safes or have received guns from relatives that have passed.
My ex-business partner was like you Brandon. He hated guns and never saw a need to have one. Never felt he needed to bring them into his house and use to spout off about every WACKO that shot somebody with a gun.
Sure, Columbine, Virginia Tech and others were horrible - but VERY MINOR in comparison to the Gangs and other criminal factions that commit crimes with guns year round. Most of the CRIME that goes on in the US is minority based (chinese/asian, hispanic/latino, Black or other) and mostly gang or crime related. This problem represents probably 99% of all gun related crimes in the US. The other 1% are those situations you've reported where RESPONSIBLE people do stupid things with guns. As I've stated before, then you have to take into consideration the other 70+ million people that own guns and are responsible with them (and have been for over 20+ years).
I think we'll have to "agree to disagree" on this issue Brandon. As long as you continue to raise the minority issues as MAJORITY ISSUES - then we'll never be able to properly discuss this topic.
As long as you continue to throw all the good apples out with one bad apple - you'll never understand or resolve this issue. The issue is "we want to get rid of the bad apples that show no responsibility" and keep all the GOOD APPLES. Will it stop the problems from ever happening in the future - NO. But will taking guns away from responsible citizens stop the criminal factions from using them - NO.
Don't believe me - ask anyone in England or Australia about this? Maybe you should talk a bit with Snapper.
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Feb 12 2008, 09:30AM
According to a Florida State University study conducted by Professor James Keck 88% of all violent crimes occur away from the household of the victim. In such cases carrying a gun in most cases would be illegal and usually not done.
The same study shows that more than 58% of victims of a gun shooting knew their assailant.
Go ahead, give us more biased facts from the NRA, unsubstanciated by scholarly research....
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:03AM
Care to share the link for that study??
Did the study provide any information as to the number of gun crimes that were conducted by criminals or gang members vs. responsible citizens?
It would be interesting to see how your "study" actually represents the numbers of RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS THAT WERE INVOLVED IN GUN RELATED CRIMES vs. Career criminals and Gang Members involved in gun related crimes.
As you have not stated this fact in your previous post, let me try to guess at the actual number to see how close I can guess...
hmmmmm.. I'll bet that nearly 97.5% of the gun related crimes reviewed in this study were the direct result of either a career criminal, gang member or illegal immigrant.
Care to enlighten me??
Re: Gun ownership
idunno, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:08AM
There are still alot of nice parts to DHS also. I actually thought the area was cleaning up. Its definetly not "south central" as BBB had said. I spend lots of time down there in P.S. and DHS both
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:13AM
Oddly, I searched for any information I could find on this study and the only "Professon James Keck" I could find is as follows.
James L. Keck - Assistant Professor
Biomolecular Chemistry Department
550 Medical Sciences Center
1300 University Avenue
Madison WI 53706-1532
Fax: (608) 262-5253
Office: (608) 263-1815
jlkeck©wisc.edu
--------------------------------- ----------------------------------- --
Education
B.S. 1992, University of Massachusetts;
Ph.D. 1997, University of California-Berkeley (S. Marqusee);
Postdoctoral, 1997-98, Harvard University (J. Wang);1999-01, University of California-Berkeley (J. Berger).
[Click Here]
Is this the guy you are discussing?? And if so - where is the link to his study?
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 11:20AM
Back in the 80's legally buying a gun was walking into Turners and purchasing one. Nowadays it's with a background check and 10 day cooling off/waiting period.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 11:23AM
All examples of un-responsible gun ownership. Glad we agree. I hope the parents were held liable, which I am sure they were. Guns should be locked in a safe if you have children. And guns don't kill, they have no feeling, people kill people.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 11:28AM
This very much saddens me to hear, I always considered myself, and probably others on this board to be your friend, now I truely see where we all stand.
Re: Gun ownership
MIKE, Tue Feb 12 2008, 11:39AM
I was thinking of the same exact thing Benny.
Wanna see my rack again?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 12:07PM
I smell another SCM shooting event in the works.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 12:27PM
Never throught I'd say this to a guy before, but, nice rack!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 12:30PM
Dennis, Excellent reading my friend and SO TRUE!!! I would like to post a section of that link to help restate my position on this topic.
--------------------------- ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------- --------------------------------
Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.
If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church. They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs. Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"
Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.
Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"
It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.
Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you
are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.
Gavin de Becker puts it like this in 'Fear Less', his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."
Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.
And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.
If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself..."Baa."
----------------- ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------- -------
Your Faithful Sheepdog.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 12:39PM
"Baa!" Hahaha. Good one, thanks for sharing that guys! Insightful perspective.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 12 2008, 01:00PM
Mike, +1 what Benny said
Bmath, how true those words are.
"The problem with ‘post-modern’ society is there are too many people with nothing meaningful to do, building ‘careers’ around controlling the lives of others and generally making social nuisances of themselves. They justify their meddling by discovering social ‘problems’ and getting the media to magnify them out of all proportion."
-Graham Strachan
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 01:44PM
Here are some interesting FACTS that might interest Moose and BBB...
--------------------------- --------------------------------
Policy analysts seeking to assess the relative costs and benefits of gun control sometimes simplify their task by assuming that gun ownership has no significant benefits, beyond the relatively minor ones of recreational enjoyment of shooting sports like hunting. Under this assumption, it is unnecessary to show that a given law produces a large reduction in violence, since even one life saved would surely outweigh the supposedly negligible benefits of gun ownership. This simplification, however, is unrealistic, because it erroneously assumes that gun ownership and use has no defensive or deterrent value, and thus no potential for preventing deaths or injuries.
Each year about 1500-2800 criminals are lawfully killed by gun-wielding American civilians in justifiable or excusable homicides, far more than are killed by police officers. There are perhaps 600,000-1 million defensive uses of guns each year, about the same as the number of crimes committed with guns. These astounding totals may be less surprising in light of the following facts. About a third of U.S. households keep a gun at least partially for defensive reasons; at any one time nearly a third of gun owners have a firearm in their home (usually a handgun) which is loaded; about a quarter of retail businesses have a gun on the premises; and perhaps 5% of U.S. adults regularly carry a gun for self-defense.
Keeping a gun for home defense makes most defensive gun owners feel safer, and most also believe they are safer because they have a gun. The belief is not necessarily a delusion. People who use guns for self-protection in robberies and assaults are less likely to have the crime completed against them (in a robbery, this means losing their property), and, contrary to widespread belief, are less likely to be injured, compared to either victims who use other forms of resistance or to victims who do nothing to resist. (Criminals take the gun away from the victim in less than 1% of these incidents.) The evidence does not support the idea that nonresistance is safer than resisting with a gun.
Defensive uses of guns most often occur in circumstances where the victims are likely to have access to their guns, mostly in their homes or places of business. Thus, defensive gun uses are most commonly linked with assaults in the home (presumably mostly domestic violence), commercial robberies, and residential burglaries.
The fact that armed victims can effectively disrupt crimes suggests that widespread civilian gun ownership might also deter some criminals from attempting crimes in the first place. There probably will never be definitive evidence on this deterrence question, since it revolves around the issue of how many crimes do not occur because of victim gun ownership. However, scattered evidence is consistent with a deterrence hypothesis. In prison surveys criminals report that they have refrained from committing crimes because they thought a victim might have a gun. "Natural experiments" indicate that rates of "gun deterrable" crimes have declined after various highly publicized incidents related to victim gun use, including gun training programs, incidents of defensive gun use, and passage of a law which required household gun ownership. Widespread gun ownership may also deter burglars from entering occupied homes, reducing confrontations with residents, and thereby reducing deaths and injuries. U.S. burglars are far less likely to enter occupied premises than burglars in nations with lower gun ownership.
Gun use by private citizens against violent criminals and burglars is common and about as frequent as legal actions like arrests, is a more prompt negative consequence of crime than legal punishment, and is more severe, at its most serious, than legal system punishments. On the other hand, only a small percentage of criminal victimizations transpire in a way that results in defensive gun use; guns certainly are not usable in all crime situations. Victim gun use is associated with lower rates of assault or robbery victim injury and lower rates of robbery completion than any other defensive action or doing nothing to resist. Serious predatory criminals perceive a risk from victim gun use which is roughly comparable to that of criminal justice system actions, and this perception may influence their criminal behavior in socially desirable ways.
The most parsimonious way of linking these previously uncon- nected and unknown or obscure facts is to tentatively conclude that civilian ownership and defensive use of guns deters violent crime and reduces burglar-linked injuries.
Rates of commercial robbery, residential burglary injury, and rape might be still higher than their already high levels were it not for the dangerousness of the prospective victim population. Gun ownership among prospective victims may well have as large a crime-inhibiting effect as any crime-generating effects of gun possession among prospective criminals. This could account for the failure of researchers to find a significant net relationship between rates of crime like homicide and robbery, and measures of general gun ownership - the two effects may roughly cancel each other out. Guns are potentially lethal weapons whether wielded by criminals or victims. They are frightening and intimidating to those they are pointed at, whether these be predators or the preyed upon. Guns thereby empower both those who would use them to victimize and those who would use them to prevent their victimi- zation. Consequently, they are a source of both social order and disorder, depending on who uses them, just as is true of the use of force in general.
--------------------------------- --------------------------
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 01:46PM
More interesting facts...
In 1985, about 31,600 persons were killed with guns, and perhaps another 130,000 people suffered nonfatal gunshot wounds. The majority of the deaths, 55%, were suicides, rather than criminal homicides. Only 37% were homicides, 5% were fatal gun accidents, and 1.5% each were due to legal intervention (police officers killing suspects in the line of duty) and to death where it was undetermined whether injury was intentionally or accidentally inflicted. Among all deaths due to "external cause," i.e. accident, suicide or homicide, guns were involved in 22% of them, handguns in about 13% of them. The majority of all gun deaths involve handguns, mainly because 79% of the gun homicide deaths involved handguns. Guns were involved in 1.5% of all deaths, from all causes, in 1985. They were involved in 59% of suicides, 60% of homicides, and 1.8% of accidental deaths in 1985.
There were also over 650,000 violent crimes involving guns in some way in 1985, over 540,000 of them (82%) involving handguns. Guns were involved in about 12% of all violent crime, and handguns in about 10%. The majority of the gun crimes were assaults, mostly threats without any injury or any element of theft or rape.
---------------------------- -----------------------------
There were probably over 200 million guns in private hands in the U.S. by 1990, about a third of them handguns. One straightforward policy implication is that policies which seek to reduce gun violence by reducing the overall supply of guns, as distinct from reducing the number possessed just by high-risk subsets of the population, face an enormous obstacle in this huge existing stock. Even if further additions to the stock could somehow be totally and immediately stopped, the size of the stock and durability of guns imply that, in the absence of mass confiscations or unlikely voluntary surrenders of guns, it might be decades before any perceptible impact of a supply-reduction strategy became apparent.
Gun ownership increased from the 1960's through the 1980's, especially handgun ownership. Some of the increase was due to the formation of new households and to growing affluence enabling gun owners to acquire still more guns; however, a substantial share of the increase was also a response to rising crime rates among people who previously did not own guns. Most handguns are owned for defensive reasons, and many people get guns in response to high or rising crime rates. Therefore, part of the positive association sometimes observed between gun ownership levels and crime rates is due to the effect of the latter on the former, rather than the reverse. Nevertheless, most guns, especially long guns, are owned primarily for recreational reasons unconnected with crime.
From the mid-1960's to the mid-1980's, scattered evidence strongly suggests that, while gun ownership increased in general, it did so even more among criminals and violence-prone people than it did among the nonviolent majority of the population. Because these "high-risk" groups are largely unrepresented in national surveys, this would partially account for the fact that household gun prevalence in national surveys remained fairly constant during this period, despite huge additions to the total stock of privately owned guns
Re: Gun ownership
Moose Drool, Tue Feb 12 2008, 02:10PM
Bamth, dude ... pace yourself; I'd hate to see you blow a gasket. Relax while we take a musical interlude:
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 02:34PM
Moose, I'm just finding interesting information as I work away over here.
Don't mind me over here. You go back to promoting Hillary and her "full of crap" promises with regards to these elections.
-- Oh, and check your glasses when you have a minute. You should know how to spell my name by now. Maybe you have left over Barista shmegma on them or something??
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 12 2008, 02:45PM
I just relized why Moose feels this why about guns, he's a democrat. And working for the scariest one out there right now, just so you know I won't be voting for any of the democrats that may make it to November. And yes I'm watching to see which republican gets the nod for November too.
Sorry if that is profiling but the dem's want to take away our guns, period.
Good song Moose.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Tue Feb 12 2008, 02:50PM
BWAHAHAHAHAAA!!
He said...Barista
shmegma!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 12 2008, 03:01PM
I wonder if Hillary and Bill make their secret service people leave their toys at home?
I know they want to take them from the military.
Re: Gun ownership
Winkie, Tue Feb 12 2008, 03:10PM
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 12 2008, 03:19PM
Thanks BDZ.
Re: Gun ownership
Moose Drool, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:09PM
Hey look ... I was wondering when Luna was going to join in.
Now gentlemen, bkap's remarks raises an interesting question about the assumptions you've been making; and actually was part of the point I originally tried to make with my first post in the Bill of Rights thread.
Before I get to that however, let me compliment bc for halfway getting us to a bit of understanding about the Second Amendment . Look at my first post after bc's regarding the language of the Second Amendment. bc tossed out an interesting and valuable point about what was inserted into that language and why it was inserted. (If you know your history you'll recognize it straight away.) But with all due respect to a later bc post, there is a difference between the "forefathers" and the "framers," and the records of the framer's debates, as far as the courts are concerned. Bkap quoted a lot of forefathers but only one framer and sourced to a an actual debate. Unfortunately, that quote is not dispositive to the argument before the courts and adds nothing to understanding the historical context of said issue. And as an aside, if you would have bothered to read the court briefs you would have learned the history of how the current case made its way to the Supreme Court, and who "messed" with the law.
Now back to bkap's posting above: You, Bmath (spelled it right this time) Dennis, and a few others were so busy ranting and raving that you assumed facts not in evidence about my position on the Second Amendment and gun ownership. Go back and read what I've written in both threads: Have I said what my position is?
You don't know me and instead of addressing the merits of what I wrote, you resorted to petty labels designed to deride.
... and you wonder why the government, the congress, and the Senate can't get the people's business done? Because they're behaving like you.
So here's the deal, you can go [censored] yourselves.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:34PM
Other than the "F-BOMB" laid into me/us at the end of Moose's comments (way to show some balls buddy!!), he is 100% right - I DON'T KNOW HIM AND DID NOT READ ALL OF THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS he linked into SCM to support his position.
To that extent, I am no lawyer and will TRY to get thru to the CONTENT of the documents over the next few days. This will give me a better understanding of his position. He obviously makes assumptions as to "my positioning" because as he stated 100% correctly "I don't know him" and THUS - he does not know me!!
Therefore, we are left with only the "F-BOMB" leveled so "manly" at a few of the members of SCM. What to do? ... oh, what to do??
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:36PM
The wording of the Second is REALLY frustrating. I've only had one problem with it, namely the last comma. It's barely visible because of fading in the original document, but it is there. Sadly, it adds confusion when trying to parse the statement ... as if there weren't already enough confusion. The folks who basically want the Second to disappear, and use language to make it happen, need to be very very careful, 'cuz a lot of other laws will have to change if they get their way.
I'm really old and tired of the issue. Regardless how it turns out, I WILL keep and bear arms, and if they aren't firearms, they'll be something else ... tsk tsk.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:36PM
Someone I know could call them and ask for you - this friend trains the Secret Service regarding "Electronic Forensics"?
Re: Gun ownership
JohnnyT (K7JNT), Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:48PM
What to do? I ignore him. I enjoy stimulating debates with people of other political and philosophical orientations, but anyone who resorts to this, or worse, going back and removing their own comments after a lively discussion ( [Click Here] ) is IMO immature sour grapes. So I don't bother.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:50PM
Where's abomb when ya need him?!??!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:58PM
JohnnyT, this is WAY OFF TOPIC - but you gotta love it. This is Allen at his best discussing/moderating an "Al Gore" thread from about a year ago.. Read and smile....
------------------------ ----------------------------------- --------
One study suggests that Al Gore produces enough methane gas via oral flatulance (AKA Fartspeak) to power his own agenda/ego in one speech for one year. So he is totally independent of fossil fuel consumption. Give him a break, besides you don't want to disturb him while he's (re)-counting! One, two, twelve, fifteen, I win!!!
And using "Conservative" sources for facts is a no-no, pull up your pants your bias is showing. My minds made up, don't try to confuse me with the facts!
------>----->----> Political fartspeak.
------------------------ ----------------------------------- --------------
Thanks JohnnyT, I needed that!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 12 2008, 05:34PM
Bmatheny
the secret service question dosen't need and answer. I'm sure they wouldn't be there if they wern't packing. Though they may, or may not catch the bullet. I'm sure they will get the shooter.
I really hadn't thought there was any ranting being done on this or the other thread. Just interesting discussion. Untill we all got splattered. Now I know why there is plastic in front of the monkey cage.
Debbie
I meant that with the utmost respect.
I know a woman who is proud to be an atholian
Jim Bollingmo used to carry uzi's in the alpine center untill he succumbed to all the BBB & drool thrown at him.
I happen to think government is doing some of their best work when they do nothing.
as far as the explative.
nobody can love someone else unless they first love themselves
As far as reading your talking points I'm sorry (other) Dennis I am trying to watch my cholesterol and have heard it all before and found your story and framer, forefather BS to be typical political garbage. We are talking about the same people and there have always been Kennedy types around. Luckily they have been the minority.
your really not advancing your position by letting everyone know you are a trekky.
Everyone knows and understand what the Constitution says, and means. The attempts by some to change it to fit their own ideas don't fly.
I have no idea why some people (on both sides) want to destroy the greatest country in the world
Wait untill the convention and your candidate tries to steal the primary from the real winner.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Feb 12 2008, 05:42PM
YES
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Tue Feb 12 2008, 05:59PM
Where can we send some money to Teddy K. for gas? I would love to see him drive her home after the party and a midnight swim. That is the best joke I have seen about that drag queen.
Re: Gun ownership
david, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:21PM
Chocolate is good
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:27PM
Vanilla is better, with a little chocolate on top.
Wait. That came out wrong with those photos just above. Where's John Edwards when you need him, dammit?
Re: Gun ownership
MIKE, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:41PM
Bmatheny sorry I can not read posts that long. I kept falling asleep.
Oh and I forgot.
YES
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:49PM
Just got back from North Carolina. While there I went to the swap meet and purchased an almost new 30-30 for $225 right off the tailgate of one of the local farmers. Probably over 50 guns for sale and no government checks or waiting periods
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:53PM
A few years ago I could have bought a wells fargo style 12 gauge for a couple hundred dollars, and a sharps 50 cal. about the same, but didn't have the money.
My rifle in the picture is a marlin 30 30, not as sexy as the others but good enough.
Re: Gun ownership
Denver, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:54PM
Especially in brownies.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:00PM
brownies are too young 18 yrs. in California
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:04PM
Wal-Mart in Redlands has ammo on sale
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:08PM
I may never sleep again.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:11PM
better stock up before they put the powder with a shelf life in it.
now they want the guns to be able to imprint the bullet as it is fired with distinctive marckers. So they can trace every bullit fired by it's id number.
way beyond what they can do now.
don't worry inky were all pussycats here.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:18PM
Inky you would make a good candidate for guard duty if you can't sleep. I had the hardest time staying awake in the middle of the desert guarding palets full of 500 lb bombs by myself in the middle of the night. Only thing that kept me awake was shooting the .45 at a flashlight lit can for hours on end.
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:57PM
here's proof that not everyone should own a gun! (this is in no way a statement of my opinion i just thought it was funny)
Re: Gun ownership
Clint, Tue Feb 12 2008, 09:43PM
I LOVE MY GUNS AND NO,YOU WILL NOT TAKE THEM AWAY FROM ME.
WHAT'S THE OLD SAYING? "YOU CAN HAVE MY
GUN(S) WHEN YOU PRY IT FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" ?
WORKS FOR ME
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Feb 12 2008, 09:54PM
Ok well everyone has opinion on guns. I don't have a gun. I think guns are for people who are full of fear.
Re: Gun ownership
Blakey, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:09PM
i know some of this is probably repetitive, but its hard to read 10 pages at once for me haha...
Own guns - YES
Gun control - who's gonna listen to that? the criminals? i think not!!
has anyone addressed the fact that the countries who adopted gun control have a higher murder rate?
ohh...and...wikiwowowow (see link below)
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Blakey, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:15PM
ohh
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:53PM
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:55PM
I think you are right!
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed Feb 13 2008, 12:26AM
Well Cat and BBB, you're wrong in my case ... and my brothers', my father's, my grandfather's, great grandfathers', uncles', etc. My information stops about the time the families came to this country in the 1600's. We've all kept them, used them, and indeed some also carried them into war. Didn't know my great grandfather, but I know what he did. None of us owned arms out of fear. I only know my own psychology, and fear has nothing to do with my life long interest in what people generally call "arms" of all kinds. The vast majority of things that scare me can't be, or aren't appropriately, dealt with by "arms". In fact, owning them is just one more thing to worry about; but so is owning a car, and a car is way more scary!
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Wed Feb 13 2008, 06:20AM
stud
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Wed Feb 13 2008, 09:34AM
That was fummy mel!
The first time I fired a shotgun It knocked me right on my tush! That was about 30 years ago...haven't stopped shooting since. Although, loading and firing the clay launcher is easier on my sholder these days!
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Wed Feb 13 2008, 11:05AM
Ok. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The fact that the opinions may be different doesn't make anyone better or worse than anyone else. Let's all be friends here. So when is the next SCM shooting event? Oh, in answer to the original question. I'll never tell.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 13 2008, 12:34PM
Let me know thru a pm at least a week before it is going to happen so as not to upset our friends that don't shoot.
I respect all of the peoples opinion here, those that shoot and those that don't.
Please remember that this is a discussion amoung FRIENDS.
I'm glad it got heated but not happy that it got nasty.
One of our other rights is freedom of speech and that is what this is all about.
Peace to all
Re: Gun ownership
, Wed Feb 13 2008, 02:01PM
BKap, I think I am the lone ranger (maybe Cat too) who said he did not shoot or own guns. I really think the problem in miscommunications escalated when WRONG assumptions were made instead of getting cold, hard facts. If you are anyone else wants to go shooting in a legal manner I have no problem with that as long as my peace, tranquility, and rights are not compromised. The only negative comment I ever made about going shooting was questioning of bringing a dog along shooting. I sometimes care more about the four legged guys than the two legged ones....
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 13 2008, 02:36PM
BBB, I think you do not have to worry about the members of this site doing anything illegal. We that do like to shoot I've found are more worried about preserving the outdoors then harming it. When a hunting licence is bought the money(is supposed to) goes to the upkeep of wetlands and habitat for wild animals. Hunters spend more on conservation then any other group.
So in other words yes we care about animals too.
In no way would any responsible shooter shoot where someone could be injured or killed or privet property be damaged. It's just not what we do.
On another site some guy was talking about how he was up in BB and went shooting down in Cactus Flats he got an ear full from 4 wheelers and others about going outside a designated shooting area and the damage he could have inflicted on people that did not know he was shooting in that area.
so no hard feelings and a friendly handshake to you.
bkap
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 13 2008, 02:39PM
I think some of you have the wrong idea.
I think other Dennis, Brandon and the others should be invited as special guests to see, and if they want to shoot.
They may realize that most gun people are just like them.
no targtes with bill, hillary, bush or them.
I think over the years I have changed many minds and shown them they have nothiing to fear.
I can't think of one that didn't shoot and have fun.
I don't know if any bought a weapon but they learned the basics and if they came across a weapon they could put it on safe remove shells without fear. people without knowledge are by far more dangerous around weapons then any of us (an assumption based soley on the posts on these threads).
There are a lot of people with guns that scare me. not because of their guns but their ideas.
When I was in high school we had a substute teacher who was probably the most respected pistol shooter in the world, wrote several books and many columns, & became an editor for NRA opened what is still the most popular training area for law enforcement, military, and citizen's that I know of.
his politics bothered me he was so far right. Otherwise he was a great guy
He was a blast as a teacher because someone would ask a question about guns or cars and there was no more school that class. probably not fun for the girls, but the guys had fun.
Ran into a couple of guys at cactus flats many years ago that I always kept an eye on. They were into reloading and I still have some hot 357 mag shell I bought from them those things are awsome.
As to bbb's remark about dogs and shooting. I am not sure if we took them shooting we had beagles that my dad wanted to use for bear hunting and they went a few time but ran off chasing rabbits and we spent most of our hunting time hunting for them. the only danger I would see for them would be their ears I don't understand any other concern.
I do know that dogs that have never been around a gun are afraid of them.
I also don't understand how you would allow us to shoot, but not own guns. Or to use them to protect ourselves in our homes. Come to think about "we" have seldom mentioned guns anywhere but our homes, hunting, & plinking.
would those uses be O.K. by you?
Re: Gun ownership
, Wed Feb 13 2008, 02:59PM
Dennis, something tells me that Moose knows all about using a gun already. There are several reasons you'll never catch me at a shooting range (my ears are sensitive to noises being one). IMO, children and pets should not be around while shooting.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 13 2008, 03:12PM
the hearing is a problem that can me mitigated. Too late for me but not all my fault.
Maybe I can sue remington for not having a disclaimer on the shells.
children I can understand but there is a time that they should be included when they show the maturity.
dogs under most circumstances I would not bring along but they love to hunt with us. That is what they were created for.
Please don't bring your little yappy dog if we go shooting.
tell ya what you go shoot with me and I'll kiss your chicken ( you that haven't been following along, that isn't what you may think)
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 07:20PM
Being in Law Enforcement, I wanted to put in my two cents as well (albeit short).
From my perspective working the streets, it can be a very serious situation rolling to a scene where people are armed, and you have no clue as to who the suspect and victims are. That includes off-duty personnel in plain clothes. I have ordered a few officers/deputies to drop their guns until I can verify their identity. Once the situation has stabilized, that can easily be done. Unfortunately, some citizens (and even officers) don't understand the responding deputies position until it is fully explained.
From a personal standpoint, I think every responsible, non-criminal, LEGAL citizen should be allowed to carry a weapon. This would prevent many of these scumbag criminals from committing violent crimes against innocent people. I can't tell you how many incidents I have responded to where if someone had been armed, the situation might have turned out different. Could it have been worse? Sure. Could it have saved lives? You bet!!
Me, I have gotten in a bad habit of not carrying off duty. I need to carry more. For the protection of me, my family, and my fellow man (and woman). I am very cautious though on using that weapon. If the suspect is not shooting or violently harming someone, I probably would take no action. Just be a great witness. But if things go bad, I would not hesitate. I have been in an officer involved shooting and would not hesistate one bit if the situation demands that type of action. Then I just have to worry about responding officers mistaking me for a bad guy!!!!
....And Bmatheny explained things very well in his earlier reply.
I will get off my little soapbox now
Re: Gun ownership
, Wed Feb 13 2008, 07:46PM
Code 2892....You and other pol;ice officers have actual situation training to know what to do and how to react. The average schmo who sports a gun for shooting at tin cans and tree branches does not. They might overreact and shoot innocent people in their fear of the situation. While they are reaching for their gun they might be blown away as the gunman sees them moving to get something. I am thankful I did not have a gun in my armed robbery. I might not be here today if I was reaching for something.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 07:56PM
BBB...you are absolutely right. But what if (and I know, we can "what if" things to death) that suspect had started shooting? Sure, some people would probably be shot. But at least the suspect could be eliminated before killing numerous citizens. Both sides have very valid points. I am just so tired of seeing innocent people becoming victims and statistics.
Just like the woman in Lake Elsinore who, along with her baby, gave two girls a ride in her vehicle. The girls decided to car jack her. They shot her in the head, dumped her body out of the car, and fled, with the baby. They dumped the baby a short time later. How different could that have been had she been armed? Could it have been the same? Sure. Could we have two dead suspects and a baby with her mother still? Absolutely.
And I can't even beging to tell you how many guns I have obtained from suspects that were stolen, obtained through drug trade, etc. etc. Take away our ability to protect ourselves but the criminals will always be able to continue arming themselves.
Sheeps and Wolves....
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:12PM
Good discussion gang. Sure cops, are taught to deal with situations, but I would argue in 99% of them, each one will be different and un-predictable, surely no 2 alike. I do not have a concealed weapons permit, but should I feel the need I'll get one, I may. And BBB in order for that in the state of CA you have to also take a seperate course in dealing with situations of the sort. I assure you for me it would certainly be an absolute last call to draw a weapon. Hence the responsibility codes of going through the process, taking a test, knowing the ramifications, etc. I consider myself a stable person who would not go off the deep end and over react or do something to further endanger myself or anyone around me given a/the situation, only to stop one. Surely there are arguments on both sides. Could I be crazy and go postal, no, but obviously everyone is different. Hence the hoops they make you jump through to get a gun. And if you buy it off the black market, it's not going to make a difference, there's alterior motives, so nothing will change and this is an open ended arguement.
So the question remains, should responsible citizens be allowed to carry a weapon, I say yes. They are in several states.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:21PM
.......I say yes as well.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:22PM
rolncode
sheeps, wolves & sheepdogs
thank you for your input.
BBB will not be convinced.
everyone has to be cautious when an officer shows up, if they are armed or not..
I would hate your job in today's world. I have noticed such a change to where an officer is afraid on a minor traffic stop anymore.
didn't used to be that way. I can remember when you waved your whole hand as a cop passed.
Big bear was great duty at that time . if someone threw an egg at a cop car on holloween they would stop and throw some back.
we knew them they knew us and they knew the few they would have to keep an eye on.
I assume your SB county. do you know if a carry permit that has been issued in the county has ever been abused?
I can't think of any.
and thank you for your service
and as sgt, Esterhaus would say
be careful out there
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:28PM
Double what you said Dennis! There was a time cops were treated like fireman, all respected, everybody loved, now it seems like people are afraid of them. Mainly because if they're coming to visit, you've done something wrong, which is so not the case. We usually only hear about the bad, since anything you see on tv involves cops anymore, when in reality they are there to protect and serve. So remember, next time you pull me over for speeding I am paying your wage!!
But actually, to get someone to change their mind, is like trying to make someone believe if god, if they don't believe you'll never change their mind, to beleive in something they don't, or have faith in. It's just some peoples ways.
Ask a Republican to vote Democrat, I would, only if I believed in that person.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:42PM
Well thank you Bills grandson!
Actually, I do not work for SB County. I did back in the late 90's but left to work in Riverside County.
But to answer your question, I have never heard of a CCW being abused in SB County. And I have never heard of one being revoked for that reason either.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:46PM
Thanks for what you do Richard. Like the profile pic, cool! You a K-9 unit?
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:49PM
Thanks Benny.
I was a K-9 handler from 2004 to 2007. I was promoted and my dog retired with me. Here is a picture I took of him earlier this week.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:59PM
good looking shepard.
my mom was dispatcher for colton PD and brought home a shepard that was adrop out from the training prigram.
took awhile before he decided I belonged . Most protective and faithful do I ever saw. one friend could get close because he had a leg in a cast and the dog didn't like his tast.
have you worked Palm Desert at all?
I worked for awhile at Baker square where they hung out.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 10:17PM
Never worked the desert, just went out there for training a few times. I work on the west side of the county.
My dog is still very protective eventhough he has been off the streets for over a year. He would go to work tomorrow if given the opportunity. He still has lots of drive and energy!!
Re: Gun ownership
spectr17, Wed Feb 13 2008, 10:54PM
Put me down as a sheepdog.
My old neighbor was an antigunner, right up until the Rodney King riots. I found him dancing on my porch the night the riots started. He wanted to borrow a gun since he had to drive into L.A. the next day. I hated to tell him I couldn't loan him a gun since I might need all of mine. I reminded him of the 10 day wait to get a pistol, a law he was in favor of in the past. He was a bit shaken when he left. His very antigun wife had a cow when she found out what he was up to.
As I recall during the King riots there was one attempt in San Berdoo to loot a market. A big crowd armed with bats bum rushed the security guard who calmly shot the riot leader right betweenst the eyes. End of riot. Koreans also stood their ground to protect their businesses in L.A. Thank god our forefathers saw the need to be armed at certain times and ensured that right by writing the 2nd amendment.
Stay safe, stay armed.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 14 2008, 06:28AM
YES! my dad got calls to tell me go down and get the speeding ticket they had waiting for me! or the times they would stop my neighbor who was drunk driving and drive him home to sleep it off, I have too many stories about fun in a small town. to this day I still respect the police and wish we could have the fun we use to have. They did their jobs and did not break heads unless it was needed.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Thu Feb 14 2008, 06:49AM
I bought my first pistol (.44 Mag) the day after the Rodney King riots from one of the guys that worked at the glass shop that I managed. I had to go to L,A. and board up broken windows. I had a screw gun in a holster on one side and the 44 on the other side. The police didn't have a problem at all with it as a matter of fact they were happy to see it. They locals we worked for were also happy to see it. Never had to use it but it is nice to have around just in case,
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 14 2008, 07:39AM
I wonder how many went out and bought guns after 9/11?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 14 2008, 08:09AM
I would just like to add that (I believe) carrying a weapon on your person (not concealed) is legal. You may be stopped and questioned by LE, but I've never had a problem with LE.
After the riots in LA and other places, it makes you think "would I be prepared to defend myself and my family?". My answer is "you bet".
Look at what happened after Katrina. That situation was nothing more than CRIMINALS taking advantage CITIZENS. The citizens that were able to protect their property and selfs were far better off than those who were not able.
One other thing I would like to add is that I've never thought of any police officer as a threat or a problem. Sure, I've had a few tickets, but I've never had anything to worry about with regards to LE. I think responsible citizens need to understand that if you are doing nothing wrong and treat the officer with respect - they in turn will treat you with respect.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Thu Feb 14 2008, 08:29AM
You are right Bmatheny. As long as its not concealed, its not illegal. Problem is, everyone is going to call 911 reporting a "man with a gun" I am sure it would be "suggested" by whatever responding agency not to do it.
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 10:05AM
If you live in the City or a town like BB all you would need or want a gun for is to have fun with it and go shooting. My parents live in AZ and have a gun in there house for protection. In my opinion its stupid. They don't even know how to use it.
My son in law is a hunter in Michigan. He gets there food supply for the year. My son is a cop also.
The only reason I would have a gun up here is fear and I've never thought of BB as a place to be afraid to live in.
Also I only say what Im thinking I really could careless if ya all have guns.
I've been shotting a few times and didn't care for it. Its loud and scary and I'm small and it knocks me around and the last gun I shot was a sawed off shot gun and my hand hurt for a month.
Not much fun IMO.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 14 2008, 10:19AM
a problem with carrying a weapon is that in a vehicle not only must a weapon be unloaded. (several second delay) but also ammo must be in a seperate compartment (i.e. trunk)(put yourself more at risk, and more delay).
And also they should be in the open, and in a locked box at the same time.
many people choose to have weapons that are not registered for many reasons that are very rational.
I have always got along with any police that I knew and have been helped many times .
I as a dumb kid was told that I had a warrant out on a ticket I had let go. and went down to the court and took care of it. saved everyone time and money.
found out early that "uncle" Jack Mathews was not as good a friend (possibly better) as I had thought. The only time I had to go before him for a traffic ticket.
I have seen cops I knew and loved harrass a guy on the street in Big Bear. One in San Bernardino threaten a homeless man, even been on the receiving end once down here.
It is a terrible job to have to deal with evil every day and feel they don't have respect of the majority of people as they seldom see them. I had a good friend who was shot by a BB cop and my only problem was that under the circumstance he should have killed him. Took a big risk to his partner and a restaurant full of people by only wounding him.
listened on a scanner as a deputies responded to a situation where a deputy had killed his wife and with great pain had to arrest him with compassion but no cover up.
listened again as A deputy who was gung ho and another officer were forced to kill a bank robbery suspect who was hiding in Big Bear.
It ruined him and I don't think he was ever able to work the street again.
One funny (for me) situation I heard a call to respond to a family dispute at my address but East, not West Aeroplane. A young cop responding to the call they fear more than any other. pulled up ouside my door and I watched him approach my door very carefuly through my lens in the door. When I opened I quickly explained his mistake and he immediatly thanked me and turned around to leave. I saw him take a couple of steps then saw his shoulders tightened while I'm sure he had a major pucker factor as he realized what a dumb thing he had just done.
I hope he learned from that mistake.
Again my respect and thanks to all police, and fire guys who follow this site.
I miss the big old shaggy sheepdog, but understand why he had to be replaced with a doberman as the size of the herd of sheep, and the ferocity of the wolves both increased.
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 10:29AM
Dennis, you actually unwittingly just revealed why everyone packing guns in the house might be wrong. You just stated your old address was ???W Aeroplane and the cop was upposed to go to ???E Aeroplane. What if that wasn't a cop, but rather somebody asked to come to a party? What if that person knocked incessantly at your door to the point you "felt" threatened? Do you get my drift?
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Feb 14 2008, 11:08AM
Say huh?
You don't friggin' shoot someone for knocking on your door. Sheesh, everybody knows that - or at least I thought that they did.
Lethal force is for protection of yourself and family when your LIFE is in imminent danger, like when a drug crazed meth head busts into your house in the middle of the night and you POSITIVELY CAN'T wait for LE, not for when someone knocks on the wrong door and it pisses you off.
Good gawd.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 14 2008, 12:49PM
sorry cat but Big Bear is no safer then anyplace else. It used to be but no more. In some ways even less.
Your parents should have training if they have a weapon
you have the right idea in not caring about "our" guns they should never pose a threat to you.
BBB
Did I say I shot the cop?
no I said he should have been more careful in trusting a possible suspect in a possibly dangerous situation.
I opened the door slowly with my hands in full sight but his mistake was in turning his back when I may have lied and had a gun in the back of my pants
Thats why they spend a lot of time in front of screens during training to prevent these situations
Your "innocent person" coming to a party would have had to explain to a locked solid core door. And would have been told he was in error.
If he persisted I would have armed myself (first) then called the sheriff. If he attempted to break down the door he would have probably got sufficent steps inside (to protect myself from arrest) and if the deputy had not arrived He would become a statistict or a prisoner (his choice) . and I would either meet the deputy outside, un armed hands in plain sight me under the porch light. or with a suspect held at gun point in a prone position and would then let him take command of the situation and put my gun down very slowly.
bullet holes through a door don't look good in court unless there are a few from outside also.
and I as well as everyone "get your drift" or should I say slant
yeah, what luna said.
I too would not advocate carrying a gun on your hip on the street. even though it may be leagle to do so.
just like kinky sex may be your right but you shouldn't flaunt it
but you are right in your opinion.
You should do your best to avoide putting a cop, or citizen in danger.
during watts, or Riot situations you should not be on the street.
I know it was awhile after Rodney King riots before cement truck drivers didn't carry guns.
stupid people burning down their town and taking pot shots at firmen trying to protect them.
then gripping when markets are reliuctant to rebuild.
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 03:22PM
Geez, guns are everywhere these days. Good thing Lisa Nowak was not allowed on any space mission wearing her adult pampers/Depends....
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 03:24PM
I wasn't aware that space had alien gang bangers...
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 03:54PM
The school shotting today should be enough to make people think about having guns.
If you thought that getting rid of your guns, that you use for recreation would stop a school shotting would you do it?
Would you stop hunting if you thought it would help?
This is why we don't need guns.
The only people that should have guns are cops.
But none of this will ever happen.
I remember in England the cops do not carry guns. I don't know if that is true today.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 14 2008, 04:47PM
cat, it is still that way, as a matter of fact the bobbies(I think thats what they are called) went to a crime scene and were shot at buy the criminals, they had to call for permission to GO get guns.
If you take away guns the only ones that will have them is the criminals.
Re: Gun ownership
Marty, Thu Feb 14 2008, 04:49PM
Unfortunately, there wasn't a cop in the classroom.
One could argue that if there were other armed people around this campus, someone may have been able to stop this guy.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 14 2008, 04:52PM
Yes the campus is a no gun zone. Not in your car, not in your room not on you even if you are a cop on campus but not on duty. I don't know if the security is allowed to carry guns.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Feb 14 2008, 05:00PM
Hard to feel safe in a "No Gun Zone" after seeing what has happened time after time. They need to either make sure that those areas are safe or abandon that idea altogether.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 14 2008, 05:11PM
It is a sad day for all of us. It does not matter to someone that wants to harm others how they do it, they will find a way, be it knifes, swords, fire, bombs or guns. If they want to do something like this they will.
It saddens me to think that there was no help avalible in the area.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Feb 14 2008, 05:16PM
Bingo. If it's not firearms it will be something else - maybe something much worse.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Thu Feb 14 2008, 05:23PM
Quite to the contrary, precisely the reason maybe teachers should be armed, this gets more and more frequent. If a teach had one perhaps lives could have been saved. Whether a gun or a knife wielding crazy man coming at you or your class. Our students should be protected where they are learning to better themselvers to be our doctors, presidents, etc. I know they have school police so maybe the answer is upping the staff.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 14 2008, 06:03PM
And please understand my comment. I'm not telling everyone to "don'yr weapons boys". I'm stating that I know in certain SAFE situations it is legal to carry exposed weapons legally in counties and cities.
You're right about it potentially being a problem and people interpreting it as a threat. I think any responsible person would not assume the worst unless it starts happening. Meaning, a man with a gun on the street is not a big deal to me. Heck, sometimes I'm a man with guns and ammo in the back of my car - going shooting. It's when that man on the street with a gun turns into a threat is where I start drawing lines in the sand with regards to his lack of responsibility in handling his weapon. At that point, if he's shooting people (or trying), then I believe citizens should be able to defend themselves.
So.. What I was stating was a point of view and fact, don't everybody start wandering around town with your guns. It might be a bad decision and could cost you your life if you start acting stupid.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 14 2008, 06:14PM
you are 100% correct and the other problem is that all handguns and weapons in any house with a child should have trigger locks or weapon locks. These prevent the weapon from being used to hurt anyone and cost about $20.
Look, I don't have kids in my house and my weapons are in my house unloaded and unlocked. I have locks for every single one of my guns and should put them on this weekend. I went shooting last weekend, packed them in the garage after that and hauled them upstairs a few days ago.
Ya wanna know why these kids are doing this with their parents guns??????? It's because SCHOOLS are more of a "social experiment" now than a "house of education". They've stopped the teachers from CONTROLLING the kids and it's gotten out of hand.
We need to start using SCHOOL UNIFORMS and ACCESSORIES. We need to stop the rich kid vs. poor kid kinda school mentality and stop support this "fierce competitive" attitude in kids. Growning up and maturing is tough enough. Let them be kids and have FUN while LEARNING - not what I call a "social experiment with your kids". Make it a SCHOOL not an out of control playground
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 07:03PM
Do any of you making pro-gun claims have any scholarly or expert facts to back up what you are saying? I have provided such to refute what you are saying...Your turn....
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 14 2008, 07:05PM
That is strange.
I really don't understand the need for a weapon in space. What is it one of those 22's that come apart.
Bad enough several countries may have nukes to drop on earth, and nuclear reactors that can fall on us........ again.
Cat
I really hate to beat a dead horse.
but there will always be guns around to be used for evil. and if there wern't people would kill each other with sticks.
there are many cops in England that do carry guns about 5%. And many more have them in their trunks. or bonnets, whatever they call them.
I'm sure it will increase as terrorism increases in Europe.
I believe that teachers should not have guns in class but there should be some security available. Teachers would not be able to secure them while doing their job. possibly gun safes in some rooms with trained teachers able to respond quickly to events
the only incident (that i remember) at school in Big Bear was when a student built a bomb with school chemicals. blew 1/2 his arm off and sued the school. There was one other that may have been prevented when they arrested the phsyco's for mutilating horses. the kids in school knew these kids were dangerous of course their records were sealed if they were minors. One is in jail now as are at least one of his parents. there should have been no guns in this house. one of the others was a son of a cop.
another in lucerene where some poisened their teacher.
profiling should be done to identify trouble kids. These things are not done over night.
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 10:06PM
OH FOR CHRIST SAKE! I can't believe this crap. Instead of getting rid of all guns just get more and let the teachers have them? Lets all just shot each other. Great world we live in. I swear. Geez
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 14 2008, 11:32PM
is it just me or are all the angry people, the one's without guns?
probably a good thing.
Cat
I'm sorry if you think having a ready reaction force promotes violence. If your worried about another gun coming into the world. We can use ones taken from gang members.
you said that only police should be allowed to carry guns. my suggestion was that a teacher would receive training (I underlined, bold type, italisized, and printed "training" in red so it would be clear) that would allow him to act as a deputy to prevent gun violence and save lives.
taking 2 hours to setup and clear the building in these situations is to slow.
a gun is a static object incapable of causing harm untill it is used and can be used for good or bad. my good gun is meant to cancel out a bad gun.
it was only an idea,
it wont be done tomorrow.
just trying to help stop gun violence on campus . I know you feel that guns can me elimanated but it will not happen. so come up with another idea
and we will discuss it if you wish.
sorry but the world is not Mr. Rogers neighborhood. It is more like a tim burton movie
don't blame it on me I'm just a few seats ahead of you on the roller coaster ride and have a better (meaning clearer) view and don't wear rose colored glasses
here is a picture of my puppy.
whoulda thunk it
don't worry he likes cats.
lighten up were just talking, not setting policy.
,
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 14 2008, 11:49PM
Cat, you know I love you as as SCM member and respect you as a friend. I really think we should respect one another's decisions and move on. This subject is pretty much dead unless someone tries to take away citizen's rights to own and bear guns. You should know from the number of people on this board that have responded that guns don't kill people, people determined to kill people with guns kill people.
I can't remember which member said it, but we promise not to be armed when we visit you or attend a SCM event (unless it's the shooting event - which is due in April 08).
This is a difficult topic becuse there are so many levels of understanding. This topic is diverse in the sense that people see different perspectives of potential solutions.
The fact that our founding fathers gave the citizens of this great country the RIGHT to keep and bear arms to prevent what they were fighting for, freedom, means we need to keep this right in tact for all citizens. This right was intended to support the union (state's defense abilities) as well as protect the citizens from "objectionable rule" means every US citizen who chooses to own a gun and be responsible is in fact honoring the intentions of our forefathers. We are choosing, and I'm not speaking for everyone on this board, to put our life on the line (if necessary and called upon to do so) to protect our great country, our family, our fellow citizens and our boarders.
Many of you may not understand the total responsibilities of gun ownership. If you think about it, this is one of the greatest responsibilities you will ever undertake because if puts your family, friends and self at risk.
Think about it. We choose to own guns for a reason and because we have that right. Beyond that, it becomes our responsiblity to properly conduct ourselves and others in regards to our choice. It also means we take on a HUGE responsibility for our choice.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 14 2008, 11:55PM
I call them "machines" because they are mechanical in nature and require maintenance/upkeep. I completely agree. Take the clip out (unchabmered) or the bolt and it won't do anything but be a baseball bat or club.
These things are not evil - they are a reality. This is how order is maintained (at the lowest common level). Some value their abilities and respect their power and others choose not to investigate/own them.
It really is a personal choice and a right of every US Citizen.
The school problems are another story and I've said my .02.
Re: Gun ownership
, Fri Feb 15 2008, 04:14AM
In the words of someone else, "still waiting....."
By the way, can I have my nuclear and A bombs? If we read the second amendment as many of you and others do we are permitted as citizens to bear "arms." Aren't bombs considered arms? After all, during the cold war with the Soviet Union they always referred to the arms race. I want my supply of bombs so I can eliminate those pesky terrorists during the night who come knocking at my door.
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:20AM
Bills grandson
I think you need to do the math on this
BBB + GUN x PHR = DRIVE BY SEX TUB SHOOTING
I never bought a gun to defend my home from intruders living in Big Bear they were bought for shooting and hunting. A lot of us until a few years did not even lock the doors on our homes. Now we lock the doors The Times They Are A-Changin. If my family lived down the mountain I would have a cannon and it would not be for hunting. We seem to be at a point that if an intruder kills someone they get their hands slapped because there kindergarten teacher did not give him regular milk but instead gave them 2% milk with his gram crackers. WE NEED TO MAKE A POINT. So when a-hole comes in with a gun he knows he will be microwaved in the chair.
Re: Gun ownership
, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:20AM
Well if we are going to respect one anothers decisions then respect my opinion also.
I don't care if ya all have guns. I think the world would be a better place without them.
Try to get rid of all the guns. HAR
Good thing the angry people don't have any guns? Who said that anyway I can't remember and I'm not going to go back and read all this stuff.
Who says I'm angry? I don't like guns. They kill people and other things. So why have them.
I don't know how anyone could kill anything.
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:34AM
How about the court system and letting the scum go after a couple of years from taking a life. The fact when some of us grew up we knew if we killed someone that we would get the death sentence and they carried it out. In the last couple decades they seem to be out of jail and home for Christmas. I feel they are harder on people for speeding.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Feb 15 2008, 08:11AM
So lets move on, shall we.
Time to ban alcohol, I mean after all you drink get a little tippsi and get in an accdent, someone that has not been drinking gets killed and you walk away.
Or your talking on your cell phone or doing makeup while driving, lets just go back to the horse and buggy. Much simpler times
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Fri Feb 15 2008, 08:29AM
I love California if you kill someone with a knife make sure the glove looks like it doesn’t fit. If you go to dinner and forget your gun at the dinner table, go back and get it. A few do’s and don’ts in California if you have someone brake in to your home. Do not use an ethnic slur at them that will allow them to kill you in your home, but in there defense you were not being sensitive and compassionate of their inter sole and feelings. Perhaps if or court system did something to the scum we could go beck to hunting and shooting instead of defending. Our media gives them days of fame and instead of calling them a crazy freak wacko trash they are referred to as a just a misunderstood loner.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Feb 15 2008, 08:46AM
I have been thinking along similar lines - if someone plans to commit a crime and cannot obtain a gun, they WILL find other means or methods.
Some whack-o just slaughtered his shrink with a couple of knives. She is just as dead as if he had used a gun. The end result is exactly the same.
Yes, guns are often times used to kill but they are not the CAUSE, they are just tools used my the killer.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Feb 15 2008, 08:57AM
this is an on going discussion about which right is more important, it was started by a collage student. There is some good thinking going on.
Please read with an open mind.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Feb 15 2008, 08:59AM
I'll leave the post here but I should have put it in Billsgrandsons post.
Re: Gun ownership
, Fri Feb 15 2008, 09:44AM
HUH??? If you look in one of the expert's info I provided you'll see that your chances of survival in a crime with a knife versus a gun are better with a knife. It's very easy and simple to understand. If someone pulls a knife you can run away. If they pull a gun and run they can shoot you. In other words the person with the knife has to be right upon you with a knife to be effective. It's not the same. If I was attacked by someone with a knife I would try to defend myself any way I can. If someone has a gun I am cooperating as much as possible.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Feb 15 2008, 10:03AM
Are you disputing the fact that she is dead and will always be dead? Are you saying that she is less dead than if she was killed with bullets? Apparently "running away" didn't work out for her and the opinions of your "scholarly experts" didn't help her situation one bit.
Lookie here: [Click Here]
BTW, what were the weapons of choice of the 9/11 hijackers, enabling them to take control of several aircraft?
Yes, but they HAVE to be able to hit you as a moving target. It's not as easy as they make it look on TV.
I challenge you to make an accurate shot on a moving target with the firearm of your choice.
I further challenge you to stand near someone with an object simulating a knife and attempt to escape before they can make contact with you.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Feb 15 2008, 04:49PM
I know this thread needs to slow down but this is just in yesterday from Washington:
Second Amendment's Day in Court
Oliver North | February 14, 2008
[Click Here]
When the Washington, D.C. City Council enacted the toughest gun-control law in the nation in 1976, the city fathers – according to what they said at the time – believed they were making our nation's capital a safer place. The measure failed miserably. Since passage, the murder rate in the District has skyrocketed by more than 200 percent. Now, the U.S. Supreme Court has a chance to both make our capital safer – and ensure that the Second Amendment to our Constitution is enshrined as an individual right for every law-abiding American.
No matter how well intentioned, the D.C. firearms statute has been unfathomable from the start. On its face, the law bans handguns and requires rifles and shotguns to be registered, stored unloaded and either locked or disassembled. While it allows business owners to use a firearm to protect their cash registers at their stores, they cannot use that same firearm to protect themselves and their families in their homes. Individuals who protect federal officials and property in the District with firearms are not permitted to provide similar protection for themselves and their families in their own domiciles.
In fact, the case that the Supreme Court will hear, District of Columbia v. Heller, was brought by Mr. Dick Heller, a security guard. In carrying out his duties, Mr. Heller carries a handgun on Federal property. However, when he sought to register the same weapon to safeguard his home, he was denied. Mr. Heller says the D.C. law has it backwards. "I can protect [federal workers], but at the end of the day they say, 'turn in your gun, you can't protect your home.'" Mr. Heller maintains that disassembled rifles and shotguns are no substitute for handguns, "any more than the government could prohibit books because it permits newspapers and considers them an 'adequate substitute.'"
Last March, the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals agreed, 2-1, that the District's prohibition was not only unreasonable, it was clearly unconstitutional. Attorneys for the District of Columbia promptly appealed the decision. That is why on March 18, for the first time since 1939, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments on whether such a gun ban for law-abiding citizens is constitutional. Their verdict, expected later this year, will have profound implications for all Americans.
The case has generated a flurry of unprecedented action in both the Executive and Legislative branches of government. On January 11, the Department of Justice (DOJ), filed an egregiously weak amicus – friend of the court – brief in the case. The argument, submitted by U.S. Solicitor General Paul Clement, essentially urges the Supremes to waffle on the issue and send the case back to the lower courts.
The DOJ softball didn't sit well with U.S. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX). On February 8, she filed an amicus brief on behalf of Mr. Heller and the exercise of his individual rights under the Second Amendment: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
In her lucid and detailed exposition, Senator Hutchison accurately points out that the Framers never intended that the word "militia," meant that the right to keep and bear arms was some kind of "collective" right that applied only to a particular group. If that had been their purpose, they would have been satisfied with Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution that gives Congress the power "to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions."
To ensure that that firearms possession was recognized by posterity as an "individual right," the Framers included it as part of the Bill of Rights – an enumeration of every citizen's personal entitlements: free speech, freedom of religion and a fair trial. The precise location of those famous words - "the right to keep and bear arms" – provides strong evidence for the Founders' vision.
To foreclose any doubt where Congress comes down on the issue, Senator Hutchison has introduced a bill to repeal the District of Columbia's ban on handguns; repeal registration requirements; and restore the ability of law-abiding citizens to keep a loaded, operable firearm in their homes. Doing less denies the meaning of the words "shall not be abridged."
Her argument was so persuasive that 54 additional Senators and 250 Members of the House of Representatives – including 68 Democrats – signed on. Vice President Dick Cheney – apparently at odds with the administration's Department of Justice did so as well. Hopefully the Supreme Court will agree with these enlightened members of Congress – and Abraham Lincoln who said, "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Fri Feb 15 2008, 05:19PM
I'm pretty sure getting hit by a speeding car, or a sledge hammer to the head, or a chainsaw, etc. Are all less less survivable than being shot. Guns are tools, not weapons. I believe most gun control laws are a violation of the 2nd amendment.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Feb 15 2008, 05:34PM
it could be that because he is on federal job he is working under their authority, while at home he is a civilian.
military will let anyone carry a gun.
but it is a good argument. I don't see how it could be against the law anywhere as long as you are in your home.
transporting can get stickey.
I was wondering if you are moving to another state are you violating a law crossing the line?
I am very happy that everyone has shown maturity in talking about a subject that everyone is so sensative about.
Still hard for me to understand how someone could be against it. But obviously they find it hard to believe anyone could be for it.
I doubt if anyone has changed their mind but maybe we all can see the other side a little clearer.
hopefuly the anti gun people know that not everyone with guns runs around drunk shooting them in the air.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Feb 15 2008, 05:50PM
YOu said you were angry! B)
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Feb 15 2008, 06:53PM
Excellent point. But I also understand the other side fo the coin in that guns are available and because of that "often times used to kill".
The final conclusion is that guns have become a part of every society on the planet and that if we try to take them away, they'll find other ways to kill or defend one another. We're monkeys and we'll fight to the death if you piss us off - all of us.
If not guns, what else? Swords? Rocks? Clubs? Lasers? Injectors?
Look, there are lots of ways to kill a person (if one wanted). It is when the mind switches into that "I'm gonna kill you" mode that is perplexing. Sometimes, I feel it is justified. Other times not.
The end result is we've been fighting forever because we don't like each other (sometimes). Given that fact, why would anyone want to not be prepared with at least the minimum defensive capabilities.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:01PM
Bkap, Slow down a bit?? Hell, after reading your post I almost passed out?
They take away guns in DC and the murder rate surged 200+%.
What more needs to be said?? This is a no-brainer. Guns and any type of defensive weapon are a deterant - not a problem.
Geez - those statistics are amazing. Anything to say BBB or Moose?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:05PM
Don't tell them what we do at night?? SHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dang!!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:48PM
Does anyone know the one animal that can eat with/at the same place as their mortal enemy?
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that would be us, humans.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Feb 15 2008, 09:54PM
from the mouths of babes
got this in an email and fell off my chair.
in a twisted way it kind of sums it up for both sides
and yes I know it isn't real.
Hillary Clinton, the (former) lead Presidential Democratic Party candidate is for banning all guns in America. She is considered by those who have dealt with her as a little more than just a little self-righteous.
At a recent rural elementary school meeting in north Florida she asked the kids audience for total quiet. Then, in the silence, she started to slowly clap her hands, once every few seconds. Holding the audience in total silence, she said into the microphone, 'Every time I clap my hands, a child in America dies from gun violence.'
A young voice with a proud southern accent (probably Johnny) from the front of the crowd pierced the quiet! 'Well, stop clappin, ya stupid [censored]!
Re: Gun ownership
fast freddy, Fri Feb 15 2008, 09:54PM
I vote Yes
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Fri Feb 15 2008, 11:16PM
I would offer this as the latest in the line of "maybe not all Americans should have guns" strategy.
I think we abdicated our "right" to own guns the very minute stuff like this started happening. And it happened FIVE times in the past week alone. At schools. Where kids are supposed to be safe? This is nuts.
I know you all are quite sane, but you have to admit that every red-blooded American who owns one is not.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Feb 15 2008, 11:35PM
inky
I repeat nobody has said all americans should have guns.
There are laws on the books to keep them out of the hands of felons and mentaly ill.
Many have given up there right to have guns and still have them.
enforce the laws now, and stock up the death chamber, and quit letting crimmanals out of jail.
all the more reason for others to have them.
and though it may hurt my argument. Don't accuse me of being "sane" I have always been a half bubble off and am proud of it. keeps things interesting. (you have to be 3/4 off before they can take your guns)
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:13AM
It's the media's fault:
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:17AM
Dennis, the mentally ill, as pointed out many times, often fall through the cracks. How do they find out if someone getting a gun has a mental illness or not? Just asking someone is just assenine! It's like asking an alcoholic if he or she is an alcoholic. DUH! Of course they are going to say no. B)
There are some people here in BB with anger issues that scare me thinking they own guns. Others may be a time bomb that appear sane (you know, the good neighbor nextdoor you hear about on the news) that for no reason (not taking meds) go postal....
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:36AM
That's a ridiculous, uninformed statement. I know plenty of alcoholics that will tell you of their disease without a bit hesitation and will refuse alcoholic beverages all day long.
Based upon the misinformed / inaccurate statement in the first quote above, I really have my doubts about this one. too
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:55AM
Inky, while I don't completely disagree with you entirely. You're right - it is nuts that these things seem to happen and my assumption is it is a "sociological" issue within our community that is driving people to this point. The only reason any somewhat sane person crosses this line is they've been pushed beyond their abilities to cope. Please read this information below (taken from your link)
---------------------------- ---------------------------
People who knew Kazmierczak said he didn't fit the profile of a mass murderer. They said he was an outstanding student, engaging, polite and industrious, with what looked like a bright future in the criminal justice field.
Grady said, without giving details, that Kazmierczak had become erratic in the past two weeks after he had stopped taking his medication. But that seemed to come as news to many of those who knew him, and the attack itself was positively baffling.
“We had no indications at all this would be the type of person that would engage in such activity,” Grady said. He described the gunman as a good student during his time at NIU, and by all accounts a “fairly normal” person.
Exactly what set Kazmierczak off – and why he picked his former university and that particular lecture hall – remained a mystery. Police said they found no suicide note.
Late Friday, a former employee at a Chicago psychiatric treatment center told The Associated Press that Kazmierczak's parents placed him there after high school. She said he used to cut himself, and had resisted taking his medications.
---------------------------------- -----------------------------------
This is obviously a troubled kid that should not have had any access to guns. He was also discharged from the Army because of mental issues.
Now, this leads to a problem that we should all be able to realise is a failure of the US Govt. The "background check" is obviously flawed in the sense that so many WACKOS get access to guns.
A person like this should have never passed a "gun background check" and the reason he did is because the federal and state agencies have no clue what they are doing. Same thing with that Virginia Tech shooter.
The guy that went in and shot all those city officials in MN was different. That was an upstanding citizen with a business, family and many other positive aspects of his participation in society. As more news keeps being released we've learned that he was HUNTED by the city officials, cited hundreds of times for parking tickets and other minor violations. He had expressed his problems to the city offices many times, but ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY!!. The city officials, being the absolute power, dismissed him and continue to put ILLEGAL and UNETHICAL presure on him, his family and his business. He SNAPPED because he had no other means of defending himself and he knew what was happening to him was WRONG.
Was he justified in his actions - I say NO. He could have moved or found another way to address these issues. Was his owning a gun the problem - no. Were the city officials directly involved in creating the problem - YOU BET!!
This is a situation where the CITY OFFICIALS operated outside the boundaries of ethics and fairness towards a citizen of their city. They knew they were pushing him in the wrong direction, but continued to push anyway because of a sense of ABSOLUTE POWER. We should all learn from this that ABSOLUTE POWER is a big threat to our society and that in any extreme case of ABSOLUTE POWER being forced on FREE CITIZENS will likely result in a FIGHT.
Anyone and everyone has a "survival instinct" - it's part of being human. No matter if we took every weapon off the planet, humans will still find ways to kill one another.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:57AM
you are right.
but as sad as it is to say the time bomb next door is the reason "you" need protection. A cop is a very long 10-15 minutes away. Everyone has anger issues, I have a few but have never thought about using a gun to address them.
The scum at columbine were known about and had even posted online what they were about and what they would do.
Parents have to get rid of the "not my baby" syndrome. I know you have a friend who fell victum to this big time.
There always seem to be flags about these people, and while all don't go postal, family and friends, & even schools should be concerned. A lot of times I would imagine communication may have averted these things. Frustration and hoplesness are hard to deal with schools loading kids with drugs because they cannot get them interested to learn and would rather have them stoned in class earning them their per diem then invest the time to reach them, or expell them if needbe is the wrong course.
If your kid is wearing trench coats it may be time to search his room and his computer.
dressing in black, while a normal phase can become a flag if carried to extreame.
I get a kick out of goth, but not healthy, cutters are easy to spot.
it's funny after these things happen it always turns out they had been on drugs for depression It has been well documented that these things don't help but just store the anger.
believe me I have more qustions then answers but I know taking my last line of defense is not one of them.
and refering to gun owners as "toting", and "packing" are not the proper term to what most gun owners do.
Take a look around at your own home and you will see how vulnerable you are. factor in a ten or more minute police reaction time. Is your alarm protecting you? Can you get to your safe room, when your door is broken down in the middle of the night?
If you are lucky you have 5 seconds to react. compling does not guarentee your protection. I know how my 5 seconds will be spent. do you?
and who has better odds?
I understand it is better to have faith and hope that if you trust you will be safe.
Just like I believe pure communisum would be a uptopia. but it dosen't work and neither does gun control.
I repeat.
it is better to have one and not need it. then to need one and not have it.
did you not read the post from the cop?
he has seen it daily and though everyone carrying guns would make his job harder . Having just the bad people with guns is much worse.
If he reads this. Carry your off duty piece. I may know you and rely on you having it some day.
I thought it was required
BBB
I doubt if I can convince you, and I know you wont convince me. I understand your deep concern, I have them too and we choose different ways to handle them When I was a child I would hide under the blankets but is that safety?
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Sat Feb 16 2008, 11:31AM
Society is becoming more violent and evil as time progresses due to a lack of faith in Jesus Christ (but that is a whole other topic)
My point is you cannot always depend on Law Enforcement to protect you the instant you need protecting. Although we are now trained to eliminate an "active shooter" instead of waiting for SWAT etc. reponse times, even at best case scenario, can take a few minutes. A few minutes can cost countless lives.
Thus the need in todays society for us to be able to protect ourselves, and our fellow brother and sisters, even if they don't feel we should be armed.
And God help us all the day some lawmaker, senator, President (hint-hint) decides to take the right to protect oursleves away. That will be the start of anachry as criminals will exploit our vulnerability to the fullest extent.
Re: Gun ownership
Marty, Sat Feb 16 2008, 12:07PM
Amen brother!
Re: Gun ownership
Around The Lake, Sat Feb 16 2008, 07:30PM
I need to ask this what kind of gun should we all have as I am not shure our rite to have own a gun is for us to own every kind of gun.
What do you think? (please be kind as I am only asking do not tear me apart for just asking)
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Sat Feb 16 2008, 07:36PM
The Second Amendment was written so that we could defend our rights against others and oppressive government. I think automatic weapons to .50 cals should be legal, or else it gives the government too much power over the people. The only weapons that should be illegal are explosives.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Feb 16 2008, 07:50PM
ATL, you should own a gun that you feel comfortable with and that you are able to use with ease. What I mean is there is no one gun for everybody, my wife does not like semi-autos as it is hard for her to operate the slide, but her and the daughter can do a revolver no problem. I do not recommend a shotgun or rifle for home defense as the length gets in the way, it is a good one for that but you need to practice a LOT with it to feel comfortable where as a handgun you still need to practice but you don’t have to keep dropping the barrel down.
As far as caliber I don’t recommend anything smaller then a .38+, and most people recommend a .45. At home my bedside gun is a .40 with fragmenting bullets (this way if I miss it will break apart in the wall with out going thru).
Yes, the area I live in has made it so all of us know how to use a gun and are prepared to do so if needed. This is why I am selling, anyone want to buy?
I say go to a friendly gun shop and handle a lot of guns, ask questions, a lot of them. There are no dumb ones.
If you want help ask me or any of those that are gun friendly and I’m sure we will help you.
This is for personal use, for defence of country .50 and full auto!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Feb 16 2008, 07:57PM
ATL
it would depend what you wanted it for.
i suggest you go to the next shooting event and talk to the members and see what you like
There is nothing to stop you from having several.
for plinking (shooting cans, etc.) a .22 would be a good place to start and cheap to feed.
huntinging at least .30 caliber
duck or bird hunting 12 gauge shotgun
home protection there are two basic choices each with merits and drawbacks
some prefer a automatic or revolver pistol.
some like a shot gun.
the shot gun is good necause of stopping power, and less chance of penerating walls
pistols are nice for ease of use and number of rounds and fast reloading. one way or another reloading will probably not be necessary.
I'm sure they will help you at the event and let you shoot several weapons.
You will need to sit down and decide what you want and if you are willing to accept the responsability..
Consideration is family member acceptance. Children in the home are a serious consideration you will need a lock, and I would suggest a gunsafe.
It is not a real easy choice.
overall I like a .380 for size, accuracy and decent stopping power, similar to a .38 smaller then a .45 and light enough for a woman to shoot.
anything smaller would just make a bad guy mad.
I would love to shoot the .50 caliber sniper rifle.
m-60's are fun to play with but ammo is very expensive, and the neighbors may frown upon having one next door plus a hassel to register.
I checked out a grease gun once but didn't fire it.
m-79 is a good all around weapon with the choice in many different rounds.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Feb 16 2008, 07:57PM
ARMALITE AR-30 .338 LAPUA MAG / NIGHTFORCE NXS 8-32x56 W/MLR RETICLE (ILLUMINATED) & NIGHTFORCE ULTRALIGHT RINGS W/TITANIUM CLAW / HARRIS BIPOD "1500 yds. A friend just got this, yes he lives in Ca.
The bullet on the right is what it spits out.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Feb 16 2008, 08:08PM
wife said I need to show this one. It is not ours but a friends wife it is an AR in .223cal.
YES IT IS A REAL RIFLE.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:52PM
Nice AR's ....didn't know tactical pink was in, but it works!!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sat Feb 16 2008, 11:07PM
come with us next time we go shooting. My advise may be different than some others - but I respect all of them because I'm still learning as I go too.
I have two 9mm pistols. One is a Baretta 92F that holds 14 rounds. I have three clips for that weapon and can essentially shoot 42 rounds at an attacker if needed. I feel this is enough stopping power for my home.
If the bad guys are really bad, then I break out the bigger weapons and start shooting. Those that know me know I'm not a WACKO that runs around shooting guns into the air.
My biggest gun is a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R Russian WWII rifle. It sounds like a cannon and could shoot thru a couple cinder-blocks and 200 yards. Ask Jibber or Benny about it. It is the only weapon I have that can shoot thru a 5 gallon bucket full of water. And when I say THRU - I mean THROUGH and THROUGH with the bucket nearly USELESS afterward.
Why did I buy this weapon, because Big 5 had it on sale for $69 and because the ammo only costs $85 for 880 rounds. This gun is SUBSONIC - meaning whatever I shot it at will not hear me fire the gun before the bullet hits the target (assuming I hit the target). It is not a good home defense weapon, but is very fun to shoot.
My advice for home defense would be a 9MM semi-auto with at least 12 round capacity. Get good at shooting it and get confortable with it. Then buy the hollow-points or frag rounds for home defense. You don't want to be defending your home and find out one of your shots went thru your walls and into the neighbors house and hurt/killed anyone by mistake. Be responsible and keep it secured from children and outsiders.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sat Feb 16 2008, 11:23PM
One other thing I would like to add to this discussion is TRAINING. Benny recently went thru a certified hangun course before purchasing his new handgun. I have been thru a hunter safety course when I was 14 or so. My family was not really into guns, but I firmly believe in gun ownership rights.
If you decide to purchase or own a gun and have never used/cleaned it, or do not have it properly stored - you are not being responsible with your weapons.
It is very important that anyone who chooses to own a weapon understand how it works, how to maintain it and clean it, how to operate it in a safe mode and how to accurately USE the weapon.
When Benny first got his new gun, we went out into the forest and practised. It took us a few shots before we were able to start hitting things (bottles and cans). This is a .357 handgun and it's not easy to hit a 2.5" wide bottle at 85 yards shooting single handed or double handed. As Luna stated, I challenge anyone to go out and hit 3 out of 5 rounds after three tries.
What I'm trying to state here is that IF YOU OWN GUNS, KNOW HOW TO USE THEM AND HOW THEY OPERATE so you can be RESPONSIBLE with your weapons - that's it.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Feb 17 2008, 10:15AM
Well we’ve argued back and forth about this and since no one yet showed any article about what happens when privet citizens are allowed to carry I thought I’d post this for you to see. There are more out there from Florida to Washington state and all over the US where we are allowed to carry.
[Click Here]
Dave Workman: Right to carry arms helps keep peace
01:00 AM EST on Wednesday, February 13, 2008
DAVE WORKMAN
WASHINGTON
WHEN the Detroit Free Press recently revealed that six years under a liberalized concealed-carry law in Michigan have not resulted in higher rates of violent crime, gun battles at traffic stops, more police slayings and other gloom-and-doom scenarios, the newspaper put the lie to all the rhetoric against passage of the statute in Michigan, and every other state where so-called “right-to-carry” (RTC) laws have been adopted.
Reporter Dawson Bell noted that in the years since Michigan lawmakers passed RTC, “The incidence of violent crime . . . has been, on average, below the rate of the previous six years. The overall incidence of death from firearms, including suicide and accidents, has also declined.”
The newspaper even quoted Woodhaven Police Chief Michael Martin with the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police acknowledging that his group’s expectations of increased violence were unfulfilled.
Translation: Everything foes of self-defense and firearms rights said in their efforts to prevent Michigan from joining more than 40 other progressive states that have adopted sensible RTC laws was patently false. Their hysteria about “Wild West shootouts” and increased death among youths stands refuted by six years of experience, the same kind of experience reported in other states with similar statutes.
Compare this record with what has been occurring in Britain over the past decade, where a sweeping gun ban has made it difficult to own even a shotgun for sporting purposes, handguns are outlawed and fighting back can get you thrown in prison. According to the Jan. 10 edition of the Guardian, gun crime in the United Kingdom has jumped 400 percent in that decade. The reaction of anti-gun British government officials was nutty enough for American gun-control fanatics to love: The Brits want to ban deactivated firearms; you know, guns that have been rendered inoperable, apparently because such guns were used in a total of eight incidents in 2005-06.
The British are appalled at what they call America’s fascination with firearms — apparently they still haven’t gotten over what happened on April 19, 1775, when they tried to impose gun control on those annoying liberty-minded colonists in Concord and Lexington — and they have a lot of sob sisters still here who cannot bring themselves to admit that legally armed citizens are a danger to nobody — except perhaps Redcoats and criminals.
In my new book with Second Amendment Foundation founder Alan Gottlieb, America Fights Back: Armed Self-Defense in a Violent Age, case after case involving average citizens who choose self-reliance over submission and victimization confirm what Michigan has learned: Where citizens fight back, and have the means to defend themselves, crime goes down and neighborhoods are that much safer.
Today, an estimated 155,000 Michiganders have joined millions of their fellow Americans who are legally armed under RTC laws in 40 states. These people are hardly criminals. Indeed, they go through rigorous background checks and in many states, they must complete gun-safety and firearms-law classes to carry guns. Yet these are the people whom gun-control extremists predict will cause bloody mayhem, and whom they say should not be trusted with guns.
If there is a lesson to be learned from the Michigan experience it would be that legally armed Americans are a pretty responsible lot, and their presence actually makes their communities safer.
It is time to challenge the anti-self-defense crowd about its continued opposition to RTC laws, expanded self-defense statutes and private gun ownership in general. Why do these people fight adoption of such laws when they know these laws work? Why do they continually seek more widespread restrictions on private gun ownership?
Just whose side are they on?
Dave Workman is senior editor of Gun Week (www.gunweek.com) and co-author, with Alan Gottlieb, of America Fights Back: Armed Self-Defense in a Violent Age, published by Merril Press.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Feb 17 2008, 12:13PM
"According to the Jan. 10 edition of the Guardian, gun crime in the United Kingdom has jumped 400 percent in that decade. The reaction of anti-gun British government officials was nutty enough for American gun-control fanatics to love: The Brits want to ban deactivated firearms; you know, guns that have been rendered inoperable, apparently because such guns were used in a total of eight incidents in 2005-06."
Gun crime jumps 400% in a decade when GUN ARE BANNED!!!!
Now, because of a total of 8 incidents, they want to ban "deactive firearms".
Everyone who hates guns - read and learn. Leveling the playing field with the criminals is our BEST and ONLY defense.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Feb 17 2008, 01:15PM
barbi's first semi
cute!
what is with the web behind the pistol grip?
I think ours were longer and grip was better and I like our foregrip better
I bet they changed the rifle because they are used at longer ranges now.
Iwould prefer the m-14 in Iraq
This is a clerk holding a couple of things that were captured in Cambodia (oop's we wern't supposed to be there)
the 16 had a silencer, and another had an m-79 attached. I imagine they were captured from special forces. The picture was taken at An Khe.
they also looked good hanging from the mirror, couldn't find fuzzy dice. that one is taken at LZ Betty, Phan Thiet.
just some advice.
remember this is the internet, and not everyone is your friend better to not advertize to much
the other has a bullet hole in front of the trigger ouch!
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Mon Feb 18 2008, 09:12AM
I want the .50 cal version of that.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Feb 18 2008, 11:54AM
A .45 you crazy? Talk about tearing a hole through somebody. You looking to disable an intruder or knock them into the next county? Hahha. A 22 would suit Todd just fine. Effectively disabling a person till authorities arrive. A 22 you can shoot at someone and it just kinda rattles around in their brain. Todd, next time we all go out shooting I'll letcha know so you can come out & try the differences...
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Feb 18 2008, 11:58AM
Perfectly said Brad!!!
So when we going out next?
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Mon Feb 18 2008, 12:03PM
I'd still stick with the .45, one round to the chest and there is no way the perpetrator is going anywhere. If someone breaks into my house, I'm not looking to disable them, I'm looking to kill them.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 18 2008, 01:03PM
Training is important if through a gun shop or with a friend. You need to take a course anymore. Don't know how involved that is. You have to become familiar with it and everytime you touch it, assume it was loaded then check it anyway.
Most gun safety is just common sense, but you have to think about it. It is not something you want to learn from your mistakes. The closest call you ever want to have is picking up a gun positive that it is empty and finding that it isn't. Sometimes they seem to load themselves.
once you decide what you want.
before you buy, do some soul searching and make sure you are willing to not only bear the responsability, and have the maturity, but decide that (if for protection) you are prepared to use it immediatly. Don't think you can decide at the last second. If you try to wait to decide, you lose.
Assume he is armed
If you are not willing to live with the thought of having killed someone and still want to shoot, or hunt disable it lock it up and store it and the bolt or some other vital piece and ammo apart to help prevent it being used. I would imagine there are locks that they would have to destroy the weapon to remove the lock.
I really haven't followed improvements for ten years.
Everyone has given some good advice figure it out and do try to shoot with them you will have a blast, then let us know what you decide.
you need more then a 22 as you want more stopping power a 45 is a little heavy, but if you fire you want to make sure you can stop them or at least scare the hell out of them and make them leave. A 38 in a dark quiet room will sound like a cannon.
again you guys should send a special invite to the non gun members of the site to come along on the shoot. they can still have fun
I'm sorry I had meant to post the picture with him holding this, not the SKS
to show the range of personal weapons they had.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Mon Feb 18 2008, 01:04PM
What is the best pistol for home protection? At 1st I bought a .44 mag (was the biggest badest) and also because it was a reliable revolver. Its to big to go plinking with and sounds like a cannon. Not to good on the wrists when firing. Then got the .38 revolver thinking it would be good (the mrs. at the time adopted that one) so I got a ruger 9mm that soon started acting up so then I got a new one and fixed the old one. I like the 9mm alot because of the number of shot it holds. The .45 has lots of knock down power but doesnt seam like it is accurate at much of a distance but we are talking for in home protection. So now I'm thinking the .44 might be to much because I have to worry about neighbors down the street on the other sides of my walls. If I could I would like to invite myself to the next outing with a sample car door and house wall to see just what goes all the way through or does any body know already? 1/2" drywall on two side of an interior wall and/or 1/2" drywall on one side and T1-11 siding on the other. I'm guesing .22 will go through both as well as most other sizes. Is this why the police are issued 9mm's? Thanks for any info on this>
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 18 2008, 01:19PM
puff
that is a good idea.
I would be interested in hearing how that works out with different calibers and loads. a 22 should be stopped by the outer wall (from the inside) at a decent distance., if that is a problem use bird shot. we have taken the lead out and put wax in to hunt bats without damaging walls.
a newer car door a bb gun will probably go through, a early 50's door would be a better test, it will at least slow it down.
I always thought if I spent a lot of time down the hill I would put some kevlar inside the door of my truck.
I happen to know a 25 20 can go though the floor hit a rock or something back through the floor through clothes in a closet and lodge in the back of a freezer
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 18 2008, 02:16PM
Hello Kitty!
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 18 2008, 02:18PM
Hey, more pink guns.... :p
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 18 2008, 02:19PM
Are you sure you don't want some gun control?
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Mon Feb 18 2008, 03:35PM
"Europeans don't understand some Americans thrills with toting guns and neither do I...."
Huh? My parents and I are from Europe and we damn well understand our RIGHT to own weapons. Gun registration in eastern europe, under the communists, led to gun CONFISCATION since they knew who had what weapons. There is pretty good reason that the Right to Bear Arms is the 2ND AMENDMENT. To protect the First Amendment! It really boggles my mind as to what kind of thinking is behind the thought of "I hate guns and don't understand why anyone should have them". How about opening ANY history book and READ and maybe, just maybe, you will understand why our forefathers realized how extremely important it is for the general population to own and be able to use guns. Isn't it funny that it is the people that have "money and influence" are trying to take our RIGHT to have guns away? George Soros, a billionaire, in cahoots with Clinton, Kennedy, etc. just to name one.
Please, please, ALL of you, don't let ANYONE take OUR RIGHT AWAY!!! Join the NRA or any other organization and help stem the tide of insanity!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 18 2008, 03:41PM
MtMan
I agree 100% except forr the "any other organization " part, I'd buy almost any other
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Feb 18 2008, 03:42PM
we have "some" gun control now and I think it's currently gone too far as it is.
Pink guns or Gay's with pink (or other) guns is fine by me as long as they are RESPONSIBLE and CITIZENS OF THE US.
BTW, next SCM mini shooting day may be tomorrow afternoon at the "normal place". Everyone who wants to go is invited. PM me if you want details.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Feb 18 2008, 04:15PM
Alpine Slide, right?
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 18 2008, 04:33PM
Ego Point reserve?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 18 2008, 04:38PM
*!#$ DAGNABIT needs to be on a weekend for me to enjoy. can't make it up hill for a least 3 weeks.
FINE! Go have fun! see if i care.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Feb 18 2008, 05:51PM
Number of shots isn't too important, accuracy is, it only takes 1 shot if properly trained and practiced with. A bigger gun doesn't always mean a better gun. My .357 mag with 38 specials packs more punch than needed to disable an intruder vs one shot accurrately with a 22. I got mine because I like revolvers & it's looks, handling and accurracy, as Bmath pointed out, to hit a 3 inch clay target at 100 yards is pretty damn good.
Jibber, unfortunately you will not have the luxury to purchase any weapon for a very long time, but the need for self defense is not to kill someone, it's for responsible defense & recreation, knock them down and let the cops deal with the trash, don't give them the benefit of being dead. In the unlikely event someone comes in and kills your mom, that's a whole other discussion.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Feb 18 2008, 05:51PM
The real SCM Shooting event will be held in April and will be on a weekend. Otherwise, just PM me when you are up and wanna go. You can follow me out to the location in the forest and we can have some fun plinking things.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Feb 18 2008, 05:55PM
Benny, that's DAMN GOOD in my book with a handgun. We're not professional target shooters and our abilities to accurately hit something get better with practice.
All I know is I want to be able to hit 5 targets with 5 rounds at about 100 yards. Right now, I'm up to about 3 hits.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Feb 18 2008, 06:03PM
Yeah! No doubt, takes practice for sure. to use it against an intruder would be 15 feet with now ear protection. Owie. What time you thinking for tomorrow?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 18 2008, 06:06PM
Bmath will do.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 18 2008, 10:36PM
I couldn't even see a three inch target at 100 yards. are we telling shooting stories, or fishing stories?
somebody take a tape measure to the shoot.
with a pistol at over 100 feet it's more pray & spray for me.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 19 2008, 06:20AM
You do know which direction the target is, right. only kidding I'm good for 15 yards then ??????????. I do better with a scope.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 19 2008, 09:00AM
Yes, let me correct my post. 100 FEET not YARDS. The shooting area we go to is about 100+ ft up a hillside. Any handgun at over 50 yards gets very difficult to hit things. At 100 years, Bill's Grandson is right - you "pray" you come close.
Up at the actual shooting range in BB, you can try out to 100 yards - and I have with all my guns. With pistols, you're lucky to even hit the target at 100 yards. A rifle (with a scope or without) is alot easier to sight in.
Thanks for catching my error. I'll try to grab some pictures when I go today.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 19 2008, 09:21AM
In basic training we had to qualify with the M-14. Being one of the few who knew which end the bullet came out I did quite well.
We had to shoot various targets the size of a mans torrso from ranges of 50 meters, to I think 500 meters, may have been 300.
this with iron sights.
Now being from the 60's I still have to look these things up. but it is a long way.
the only trouble was hitting the 50 meters because you had to shoot into the ground about 2 feet in front of the target.
great weapon.
Had an old rifle like Lee Harvey supposedly used and could hit a man size target at almost 1,000 yards most times . That was the furthest I ever could find to shoot.
I think the sniper record kill during Vietnam was over 1/4 mile. I would imagine it is much better now.
Shot my dads 45 and was lucky if the bullets landed in front of me. It must have been me or the 45 beacuse so many swear by them.
I think someone posted about sub sonic ammo earlier and made a error "sub sonic" is slower then the speed of sound. Only advantage that I see is it can be silenced easier. elimanates the crack of the bullit breaking the sound barrier.
hard to figure out how to lead something at distance when moving so slow.
Like most guys I think the faster the better
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:23PM
That's respect right there. The maximum effective range of a modern day .50 cal sniper rifle is 2000 yards or aprox. 1.14 miles.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:54PM
I would love to fire one of those things. must be up to about 5.00 a shell by now.
hard to believe something could hit at that range. the target could walk ten feet between the time it was fired and the bullet arrived. But I guess if you are shooting HE it would be good.
Thats like standing on divison and hitting someone on greenway, you would have to have some elevation to see them. would love to see the optics
what is that about 2 seconds flight time?
I think they still rely heavely on the m-14 and
the fancy 30-06 for everyday sniping.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 19 2008, 05:00PM
well, we went out and tried something different today. We setup three targets (boxes) at about 35~40ft out and gave ourselves 5 rnds & 5 seconds to hit what you could. No pre-aiming, pull it up and shoot. Kind of a simulation of "sudden death". I was only able to hit one target each time.
The other guys I went with also got 1. We tried about 3 times each and none of us "gun guys" could hit more than one in 5 seconds at 40ft in 5 seconds.
Sucks huh??
Sub sonic was me. Here are the specs on my "cannon"
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
This is the ammo for it I'm shooting -> [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Tue Feb 19 2008, 05:01PM
Well at long distances it gets even tougher because you have to account for the Coriolis effect as well. That's just crazy if you can hit and kill something at over a mile.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 19 2008, 05:19PM
Not to mention the bullet drops!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 19 2008, 05:40PM
FYI, my russian cannon shoots rounds at about 2500~2700 fts. So that's about 1 mile in about 2 seconds.
SuperSonic is 1129 fps. I guess I was right about my cannon.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 19 2008, 06:58PM
my point on the sub sonic is he would hear the shot before it hit him.
there is another reason is that the slug will tumble when it hits the target here is a site on subsonic ammo
[Click Here]
you might try something best with rifle but could work with a pistol two handed (not with a revolver if you want to keep your finger)
due to close range shooting and needed fast reaction times they had us train with bb guns shooting disc's as small as a quarter in the air.
It was Annie Oakleys secret and you lay an index finger in line with the barrel and shoot without aiming you can do it where you sit but you will look silly.
pointing with your finger is remarkably accurate.It could be done one handed if you learn to pull the trigger with your second finger but would take some practice
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Tue Feb 19 2008, 07:56PM
22 pages? C'mon people, break it up!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 19 2008, 08:08PM
Inky
just a hint
Cancel thread tracking
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 19 2008, 08:14PM
We have a hobby. Thhhhhhhh!!!!! :p
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 19 2008, 08:23PM
23 pages 2,600 visits, 222 posts
were still number one.... with a bullet
(pun intended)
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Feb 19 2008, 10:28PM
Some people have been shooting blanks, though....
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 20 2008, 06:29AM
sounds like a gang bang (yes pun intended)
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Wed Feb 20 2008, 07:17AM
Subsonic rounds are great. The soft nose .22 in the rifle make less sound than the pellet gun. I gotta try the 9mm sub sonic rounds to see if I can set up a shooting gallery inside my house
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 20 2008, 08:23AM
Jim Mcalister had a underground shooting range at his house. He was an expert on guns and built Stocks that are highly collectible. I have my grandfathers 30-06 with a manzanita stock made by McAlister. He sold stocks made for guns but they also need to fit the shooter to be apreciated.
We had an old 45-70 which was a single shot breach lock. Similar to a buffalo gun.
Fired an enormous slug. had a bunch of ammo so a friend and I decided to shoot it.
We had always shot at the big house (mansion).
In case it blew up we tied it to a chair and used a string to fire it the first few times. Pointed it at a tree and almost blew it apart. (I know I'll catch it for that)
Put some bricks up near the barn and blew them apart. I had an old wooden boat that sat behind the bricks and one shot hit it in the keel and blew a hole on the backside about a foot across.
It was subsonic but far from quiet.
We also had a 30-40 Kraig that had the barrel tapped to attach a silencer. It was bought Surplus from the Spanish American war and I guess it came that way. By far the quietest is a 22 high standard semi auto pistol that can be locked so it dosen't eject the shell which made it much quieter
Does anyone remember the old Klen ads that sold sold guns and ammo very cheap.
I think the Kennedy assination put them out of bussines
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Wed Feb 20 2008, 09:29AM
Finally picked up my new Glock 17 yesterday and need to go try it out. Anybody want to go?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Feb 20 2008, 11:48AM
pick a nice day and let us know. I just went out yesterday and at the rate I'm going, I'll need more ammo soon..
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 20 2008, 01:43PM
Bmath, welfar-mart has best price on bulk ammo for common cal.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 20 2008, 05:31PM
My .357 goes 1100 fps 2700 is damn fast.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 20 2008, 05:32PM
Walmart or Kmart? I Kmart doesn't.
Re: Gun ownership
Conifer Lover, Wed Feb 20 2008, 05:50PM
benji and bmath, i would like to go with you guys someday, i have never been shooting before
Re: Gun ownership
Conifer Lover, Wed Feb 20 2008, 06:50PM
this can happen [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 20 2008, 07:09PM
still loading on dial up but saw one once from San Bernardino where they arrested a guy passed through 3 officers, supposedly searched, and shot himself in the the interogation room. very sad to watch.
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Wed Feb 20 2008, 07:47PM
Anyone want to go shooting Sunday afternoon?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Feb 20 2008, 08:40PM
could be a wicked drive out to the "normal place" by then. Maybe I'll have to show you some other spots that would be easier.
If I'm here, I'll go.
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Wed Feb 20 2008, 09:43PM
I've got a 28 inch tv I'm donating to the target portion of the even. I just request to shoot it with the canon.
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Wed Feb 20 2008, 10:45PM
24 pages. Is this some kind of record?
Wait. Apparently it just went 25. Someone just shoot me.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Feb 20 2008, 10:51PM
We certainly do appreciate your help!!!
.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Feb 20 2008, 11:05PM
Jibber, I'll help you clean up afterward. I think we need to bring rakes, trash bags and trucks to "maintain" our shooting area. I'm pretty sure the forest people would appreciate it??
There's also a ton of brass out there!!! Kinda helps if you have a reloader and time. Saves lots of money.
Looks like we need to plan a date/time and GO. We have enough interest from members.
DD, wanna plan something with me?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Feb 20 2008, 11:14PM
sure, maybe Benny and I should do a basic gun safety and operation course before any "new shooter" handles a gun. We're not licensed to teach this stuff, but we know our guns.
You, my friend, start with a .22 or handgun with 3~5 rounds as you learn. It's alot of fun.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Feb 20 2008, 11:14PM
uh-oh Inky, 4 more posts and we closing in on 30 pages ++.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 20 2008, 11:57PM
Bmatheny
thought you guys would like to see some other toys and this seemed like as good a time as any anything else you would like
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:55AM
Looks like fun BG. I'm pretty sure those went BANG louder than anyting I have.
Thanks!!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 21 2008, 06:12AM
It is always important to maintain a clean shooting area. It keeps the authorities happy and they then tend to let you alone more.
Hope I can make it there for at least one or two shoots.
Just picked up a new to me P226 9mm Sig. The gun shop has a range downstairs so I do get to shoot regularly.
Teaching new people is great it brings more in to the sport and they also learn safty.
Oh BG great shots of some nice machinery.
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Thu Feb 21 2008, 07:04AM
I had always heard that it is good educate to be polishing the shotgun when some young suitor man comes to pick up your daughter for a milk shake.
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Thu Feb 21 2008, 07:13AM
dont shoot the jelly donuts!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 21 2008, 07:19AM
Jerry
so how many times did this happen to you????
I got the "what are your intentions" speech once over an innocent afternoon 4WD ride, but never that one. I'd probably end up having more in common with him and dump her.
whats really bad is meeting her mom and dad and finding they are your age, or younger.
26 pages now
wooo wooo as homer would say
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Thu Feb 21 2008, 08:20AM
Wow, BG's big guns make Brad's look like... Oh well. Never mind.
Yep. Let's plan something guys. Weekend afternoons (around 3 or later) are best for me until the mountain closes.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 21 2008, 09:19AM
You just HAD to say that - didn't you??
Remember, in about 2 weeks you'll be due for 45 spankings. I'll be sure to make sure you get'em girl!!
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Thu Feb 21 2008, 10:36AM
Hey Brad, you don't have a brother named Casey at BYU by any chance? Check out the last couple of paragraphs from this article about carrying on campus in Utah. :-)
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 21 2008, 11:23AM
No doubt he is some kind of distant relative of mine, but I don't know him. Matheny's originated in the US in the mid 1700s in West Virginia. We have a book that details our family history to the 1400s in France. I guess we were royalty back there
BTW, it was a Matheny that married Abraham Lincoln to his wife. Bet you did not know that?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 21 2008, 11:57AM
DD
please don't write checks I can't cash even with the Anonymity of the internet I find it better not to raise expectations
painful as it is for an army guy to admit.
the navy had the bigger guns
23 mile range firing a shell that weighs as much as a VW. from the beach you see a flash over the horizon at sea, hear the shell overhead then seeing a flash over the horizon to the west then hearing the explosion. Of course the B-52's could drop the most tonnage.
glad they were on our side.
Re: Gun ownership
Jen&Shady, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:09PM
Let's make this thread a bit longer....here's me trap shooting at Alvord mine!
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:26PM
Guns don't kill kittens; kittens kill kittens. No. Wait. That's all wrong.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:30PM
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:37PM
I thought it was curioskitty that killed the kitty.
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:48PM
Here comes Page 27!
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 21 2008, 01:09PM
I still don't care for guns.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 21 2008, 01:24PM
inky
I'm not a cat person but this is funny
I always thought they were nuts
hope you can get it to load
1203628327_659_FT44814_abadcatday.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 21 2008, 01:45PM
so how many pages is the most so far?
Oh here's a pic of ................... well you tell me.
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Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 21 2008, 01:59PM
For next time anyone goes shooting here are some safety tips;
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 21 2008, 03:18PM
In the words of Susan Powter.... Stop the insanity!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 21 2008, 03:37PM
all right Brandon
get rid of her and I'll get rid of my guns
I thought she was just a nightmare from long ago
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 21 2008, 05:37PM
tanks eye needed that.
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Thu Feb 21 2008, 06:31PM
Yep.
And, so will you!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 21 2008, 08:23PM
OK - Fine!! Whoever pins the other to the ground first delivers the Bday spankings.
BTW, I promise I'll let you win.
Re: Gun ownership
Stringfellow, Thu Feb 21 2008, 11:24PM
If you're going to shoot a television, I hope you do it in your own house. there's absolutely no reason something like that should be shot at anywhere else.
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Thu Feb 21 2008, 11:54PM
I shot a TV once. And it was in the house too.
I was probably 7 or 8 years old at the time.
It was our family's 'old' black and white TV. Not sure exactly how old, probably dated from the late 1950s. I was armed with a state of the art --- squirt gun! The TV was on and when the cold water from the squirt gun hit the front of the TV the protective front glass shattered. Boy was I in trouble. Haven't thought about that in years.
Re: Gun ownership
Around The Lake, Fri Feb 22 2008, 01:16PM
Fly it must have scared you almost to death.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Feb 22 2008, 01:49PM
Well, if it continues to dump like it's doing now, shooting on Sunday may be out of the question.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Feb 22 2008, 06:23PM
How bout in a field of the San Bernardino Bladderpods?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Feb 24 2008, 09:00AM
DD's Shooting Day (today) has been cancelled do to the weather and the fact that she has the BB Crud again. I called her yesterday and she told me "she got it again" and had already been to the Doc.
Besides, with weather like this, it would just be a day out in the mud. Next time folks.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Feb 24 2008, 11:36AM
Sorry to hear that but Oh well, maybe I'll be there for the next one.
Or make arrangements for another time.
Picking up a Sig 220ST tomorrow in .45cal. whooo hoooo
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Feb 24 2008, 11:42AM
Didn't you just get another gun a few weeks ago or was that someone else??
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 25 2008, 06:28AM
yes I did, PPT are a legal way to buy more then you need.
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Tue Feb 26 2008, 10:19AM
Again? This is the first time I've gotten the crud. You must be mistaking me with someone else.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 26 2008, 04:17PM
Oh yeah. That was the other person that wanted to go shooting last Sunday that recently got the crud.
Could have been a dozen people on SCM
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 26 2008, 07:01PM
Went out shooting with my pops today, haven't done that in 15+ years with him, lots of fun. Bmath we were hitting the 3" clay targers at 50-70 yards roughly 150+ feet. So yer earlier post earlier was actually accurrate. I have clay targets and a custom made launcher. It's a blast, when ya wanna go next?
Re: Gun ownership
MIKE, Tue Feb 26 2008, 07:19PM
I used to be able to hit a thrown clay with a .22 rifle. Then we figured those bullets went a long ways and it was not safe to do that anymore. Wonder if I could still do it.
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Tue Feb 26 2008, 11:02PM
Really? 29 pages?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 26 2008, 11:36PM
"I love the smell of hoppes #9 in the morning"
why is it the girls waste money (usually ours) on expensive perfume, when if they want a burley mountain man, all they need is a dab of hoppes behind the ear and knee?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 27 2008, 06:15AM
And still going!
BGS, my wife uses that to tell what I've done that day, if she smells #9 she knows I've been cleaning the "toys".
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 27 2008, 07:59AM
bkap
your toys?.... or her toys??????
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 27 2008, 09:06AM
Nope not going that way, not going to touch that, nope no way!!
her toy is a Sig P232 and she maintains it.
Re: Gun ownership
Blakey, Wed Feb 27 2008, 11:12PM
speaking of guns...im selling my .22 cal winchester (1945 i believe) target rifle in EXCELLENT condition if anyone is interested...includes winchester aluminum hard case.
Re: Gun ownership
Jen&Shady, Wed Feb 27 2008, 11:55PM
One..................more.......... .........page...................... ................................... ...................... . . . . .. ?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 28 2008, 06:35AM
Blakey got any pic's?
I maybe interested.
30 pages
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Thu Mar 13 2008, 10:36PM
This will never happen in CA (though I'd be in favor of it)...
Just heard on the news while driving home about a bill in West Virginia that would create an elective class for high school students to teach them about hunting and gun safety.
The liberal media will have a field day with that one!
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Thu Mar 13 2008, 10:40PM
My entire family got their huntng licences about 12 years ago. None of us has ever killed a thing. It's a good thing to have though....just in case
Re: Gun ownership
vince, Thu Mar 13 2008, 10:59PM
I clean my gun every chance I get ....
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Sun Mar 16 2008, 05:56PM
World news on CH7 just reported that the US Supreme Court is set to hear a case originating out of Washington DC regarding the 2nd amendment-right to bear arms.
A woman there is suing the city because she cannot own or possess a handgun inside of her residence to protect herself. She, like many others, want the ability to protect themselves against the armed criminals in the city.
I think it was posted earlier in the thread, but after DC banned guns, violent crime spiked in the city. According to the news, a town in Georgia took the opposite approach and requested that the citizens arm themselves. Can anyone guess what happened?? You guessed it, violent crime went down.
It will be very interesting and could have a major impact on what the US Supreme Court decides this week. Being that most justices on the bench now are conservative, we should be OK. Thank God this was not being reviewed several years ago when the bench was much more liberal.
Never know though.....
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Sun Mar 23 2008, 07:46AM
The next post is another law trying to be passed to chip away at the 2nd amendment. You have to admire the tactics on how they erode away our rights in this country, bit by bit. I look at the country south of the US and how great it going to be here as we loose our freedoms and assimilate to our new culture. It is only a 35-dollar fee and we know all the criminals will turn in their ammo if they can not pass the muster. I will feel safer after this is passed knowing government is keeping the bullets only in the right hands and not the left one.
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Sun Mar 23 2008, 07:47AM
California Assembly to Consider Severe Restrictions on Ammunition Sales!
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
Stand Up and Make Your Voice Heard Today!
On Tuesday, April 8, the Assembly Public Safety Committee will consider legislation that would require gun owners to obtain a “permit-to-purchase” before buying handgun ammunition.
Introduced by State Assembly Member Kevin De Leon (D-45), Assembly Bill 2062 puts ammunition sales in the crosshairs. AB2062 would require that law-abiding gun owners obtain a permit to buy handgun ammunition and would impose severe restrictions on the private transfers of handgun ammunition. Applicants for a “permit-to-purchase” would be required to submit to a background check, pay a $35 fee, and wait as long as 30 days to receive the permit.
Under AB2062, it would be unlawful to privately transfer more than 50 rounds of ammunition per month, even between family and friends, unless you are registered as a “handgun ammunition vendor” in the Department of Justice’s database. Ammunition retailers would have to be licensed and store ammunition in such a manner that it would be inaccessible to purchasers. The bill would also require vendors to keep a record of the transaction including the ammunition buyer’s name, driver’s license, the quantity, caliber and type of ammunition purchased, and right thumbprint, which would be submitted to the Department of Justice or the number of his handgun ammunition purchase permit. Vendors would be required to contact the purchase permit database, to verify the validity of a permit before completing a sale. All ammunition sales in the State of California would be subject to a $3 per transaction tax. Lastly, mail order ammunition sales would be prohibited. Any violator of AB2062 would be subject to civil fines.
Please contact the members of the Assembly Public Safety Committee and your State Assembly Member TODAY and respectfully urge them to oppose this onerous attack on our Second Amendment freedoms. Contact information for the committee members can be found below. Please click here to find your State Assembly Member.
State Assembly Member Jose Solorio (D-69), Chair
(916) 319-2069
Assemblymember.solorio©assembly.ca.gov
State Assembly Member Greg Aghazarian, (R-26), Vice Chair
(916) 319-2026
Assemblymember.aghazarian©assembly.ca.gov
State Assembly Member Joel Anderson (R-77)
(916) 319-2077
Assemblymember.Anderson©assembly.ca.gov
State Assembly Member Hector De La Torre (D-50)
(916) 319-2050
Assemblymember.DeLaTorre©assembly.ca.gov
State Assembly Member Fiona Ma (D-12)
(916) 319-2012
Assemblymember.Ma©assembly.ca.gov
State Assembly Member Anthony J. Portantino (D-44)
(916) 319-2044
Assemblymember.Portantino©assembly.ca.gov
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Sun Mar 23 2008, 08:39AM
it doesnt matter what the law says, criminals will get guns and ammo if they want it. criminals are criminals that's why they're criminals they don't care about silly laws
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Sun Mar 23 2008, 09:10AM
Exactly, gun control takes guns out of the hands of honest Americans.
Re: Gun ownership
, Sun Mar 23 2008, 09:17AM
I'd rather have the guns taken out of the hands of the wackos and crazies. Some of them are honest....
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Sun Mar 23 2008, 09:19AM
Some. The majority of Americans who own guns know how to use them and would never commit a crime with a gun.
Re: Gun ownership
cricket, Sun Mar 23 2008, 09:31AM
you are right about that one jibber.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 23 2008, 10:06AM
+ a million
It's not the legal owner honest people need worry about it's the ones that buy it on the street you got to worry about.
Most of us don't want to use it to protect our familys and home but will if needed to. the others WILL use it to take from you.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Mar 28 2008, 04:43PM
Kinda long, I found it interesting when you have some time to read up... You may have also gotten this already in email.
Adios Amigos
Do you remember when Puerto Rico was raising heck about the US Navy using that nothing little island just off the coast of Puerto Rico for bombing practices, which they had used for the past 75 years?
Demonstrations were held; Hollywood left wingers, Al Sharpton, and his fellow demagogues went down there to demonstrate to get the Navy out?
I am sure it infuriated you just as it did me at the time. Well, here is our revenge. Always be careful what you ask for, you just may get it!
One of the many headaches that the U.S. has had was the Puerto Rican island of Vieques . In the waning years of the Clinton Administration protesters demand that the US Navy abandon bombing and naval gunfire exercises that had taken place on the largely uninhabited island for nearly seventy years.
In 2002, the bombing exercises were transferred to an Air Force bombing range in central Florida not far from Jacksonville and Pensacola Naval Air Station s. In January, many of the protesters were back in Puerto Rico, celebrating the final bombing exercise on Vieques and waved Puerto Rican flags and placards that read 'U. S. Navy, get out of Puerto Rico.'
The following February, Rumsfeld announced that the U. S. Navy will close the Roosevelt Roads Naval Air Station in Puerto Rico in 2004, eliminating 1200 civilian jobs as well as 700 military positions. This naval facility is estimated to have put nearly $300 million annually into the local economy.
The next day a stunned Governor Sila Calderon, held a news conference in San Juan protesting the base closure as a serious blow to the Commonwealth's fragile economy. The governor stated that 'The people of Puerto Rico don't now or never did have an interest in closing the Vieques bombing range or the Roosevelt Roads naval base. We are i nterested in both staying in Puerto Rico .
When asked, the Commander-in-Chief, Western Atlantic Command, said, 'Without Vieques, I see no further need for the facility at Roosevelt Roads. None.'
So, Yankee go home? Fine. But we'll take our dollars with us. Hasta la vista, baby!
On February 21, the Secretary of Defense also announced that starting this year, the U.S. European Command would begin moving most, if not all, of its active combat and support units from bases in Germany to others being established in Poland, The Czech Republic, Hungary and Turkey to 'better position them for rapid deployment to likely hot spots in those parts of the world.'
Immediately the business and government leaders in the German states of Hesse, Rineland and Wurttemburg, protested the loss of nearly $6 billion US revenue each year from the bases and manpower to be displaced. A spokesman for the Foreign Ministry speculated that the move may be 'what the Americans call 'payback' for the actions of this government in opposing Military action in Iraq .'
'Does anyone know the German translation for: 'Hasta la vista, baby?' I think 'Aufwiedersehen, linesmen' is a good translation.
Oh, isn't it nice to see a government with guts and a good memory???
Also, here are some statistics and conclusions about a different subject.
If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2,112 deaths, when this was written) that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers.
The firearm death rate in Washington D. C. is 80.6 per 100,000 for the same period. (...and that was while handguns were outlawed!!)
That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in the U. S. Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.
PASS THIS ON 'cuz you can be sure that CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS won't!
Conclusion:
Maybe the U.S. should pull out of Washington , D.C. !!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Mar 28 2008, 05:02PM
Very interesting Benny! It's nice to see what happens when the US pulls out of some place we arn't wanted that they THEN realize what we did for them.
Servers 'em all right!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Jun 01 2008, 02:34AM
thought I'd bring back an oldie but goodie in response to inky stating she was fooled to gun right;s site's, she didn't avoide this one, and am sure she will be one of the first to check it out this time
love ya inky
I'm sure we can get a few more pages added to this one now that shooting season is back.
cleaned my .380 the other day, first time in a long time. my favorite handgun of all time.
I load every other round with hollow points, was wondering if anyone has expiremented with coating slugs with teflon coatings, with so many bad guys getting kevlar.??
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Jun 01 2008, 05:46AM
I have a .380 too. Mine is the "James Bond" Beretta (I believe Model 97). Very nice and accurate little gun.
I have about 70 rnds of hollow point ammo for it, but save that for when I need it.
I know nothing of teflon coating any ammo. I had a friend who used to work for the NY Police Department and he told me they were pretty common back there.
I'm sure getting this thread to 40 pages will just thrill Inky
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Sun Jun 01 2008, 08:03AM
ITS ALIVE
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 01 2008, 08:42AM
Hey it will never go away! And thats a good thing.
I love my little Sig p232 .380 it is easy to carry and is real accurate, I do have hollow points for it but only for defence, for practise use full metal jacket ammo.
Sounds like we need another day at the range, soon.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Jun 01 2008, 09:38AM
I think we need to plan one. You know I'm ready.
Re: Gun ownership
, Sun Jun 01 2008, 11:05AM
Timely too since some wacko just shot a bride and groom up at a wedding in Arkansas (I think that's where it was.).
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 01 2008, 12:00PM
BBB, had he used a car he was driving while drunk would you call for a ban on alcohol or on cars?
If people want to kill they will use what ever is available. I have not seen a call for a ban on baseball bats and they have been use to kill, what about steak knifes? The list goes on and on, there is a quote "saying the gun was responsible for killing is like saying the pencile was responsible for misspelling". It is the person on the other end that is in control of it that is responsible.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 01 2008, 12:02PM
Bmath, lets try to make it on a Saturday this time OK?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Jun 01 2008, 12:46PM
Well, I hope some participant or other had a weapons permit and BLASTED THE HECK out of that shooter for all of us.
I firmly believe that if more people were allowed ot carry weapons to protect themselves, family and society, idiots like this would quickly become a DIEING BREED (literally).
Now gangs are a different problem, that is where the police and SOCIETY have to decide "enough is enough", then go thru neighborhoods like they are doing in Iraq targeting suspects.
We can take our streets and cities back, but not by GIVING IT TO THEM.
Re: Gun ownership
, Sun Jun 01 2008, 08:45PM
This might not be the right thread to jump in with a question such as this but...
Does anybody own any Airsoft guns? I just recently became interested in them, mostly for plinking around in the backyard as it's something inexpensive and rather harmless... unless you're aiming at someone's face! Watch out robbers... I WILL put a pellet in your eye! And then I will poke you...
Anyway, just curious...
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Aug 27 2008, 01:29PM
I've been thinking about some home protection for my mother. Her eyesight isn't what it once was so I was thinking of this,
Inky, whatever you don't open this.
(I emailed it to brandon already)
didn't seem to work try below to my next post
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Aug 27 2008, 01:44PM
Billsgrandson, won't open on my comp.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Aug 27 2008, 02:18PM
I'll try it again a different way not really how to post a video, and not a shortcut. If it dosent work send me a email and I'll forward it. It is really cool
it may just be to large to post
1219871855_659_FT44814_glockwithdrummagmd.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Thu Aug 28 2008, 05:46PM
Bad vision with a glock? Buy her a dog.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Aug 28 2008, 05:48PM
I figured 100 rounds in about 4 seconds would do the trick
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Sep 05 2008, 05:39PM
I think our next VP supports private gun ownership!
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Sep 05 2008, 06:31PM
Excellent!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Sep 05 2008, 08:14PM
More like she is the embodiment of the 2nd ammendment and hunters rights.
She understands what a gun is for and can be used for also, this women is a real person that did not grow up in a family that was political, but in one that has their feet firmly planted on the ground, and she is not afraid to talk about her blemishes and warts.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Sep 05 2008, 08:28PM
Here Here!!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Sep 05 2008, 08:45PM
she has warts??
It's all over between us Sarah, sorry.
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Fri Sep 05 2008, 10:44PM
BG try a paint ball gun, using bright colors, then maybe you will be able to see what you hit before firing the second shot. they really smart at close range an its kind of difficult for the guy or gal to deny that it was them when they are covered with paint. personally I prefer my old friend Colt, he always close, an has never lets me down. BSF
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Sep 16 2008, 11:03AM
this was listed under comedy for some reason
shows the awsome responsibility of gun ownership and the need to know what you are doing at all times.
none of these scenes were the fault of the gun
the first was a cop in a school classroom who shot himself in the leg. He was O.K. and even continued his teaching while waiting for medics.
there are some funny videos on the site. this isn't one of them
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Sep 16 2008, 12:55PM
Yea, about the cop in the begining, he is a piece of work. I've seen the whole vid of that incident and he keep say he was the only one qulified to shoot a "Glock 40", then he shoots his foot.
I think the gun was teaching him a lesson.
Re: Gun ownership
honeymÖÖner, Mon Sep 22 2008, 08:32AM
I don't think guns are an important enough issue to vote for a president, just to be able to have a gun! What are the other issues that, he/she is trying to pass?? Drilling for oil, when we have other better ways??? What are their beliefs on abortion, medical issues, saving the planet, etc. Guns??? Do we really need to make someone a President, just so you can go shoot a gun???
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Sep 22 2008, 09:49AM
It's not really about "can we shoot a gun" or not. It's about our constitutional rights and electing a President that will respect and uphold our constitutional rights.
Would you elect a President that took away your freedoms? Freedoms to make a choice or to speak your mind or to defend yourself?
What kind of President would he/she be if his/her positions were in direct violation of the rights provided to us by the US Constitution?
In my opinion, this would not be a proper Presidential candidate for any time in the US and I would not vote for him/her.
You have to understand, we in America have certain "Inalienable rights" provided to us by our founding fathers. These rights for all citizens are the basis of this great country (from the time my family first migrated here in the late 1700s). These rights are not something that should be changed because a certain President feels it is necessary. They should be protected, unaltered and respected. There is a reason they are there even if some people don't agree with them.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Sep 22 2008, 10:41AM
Other better ways? I'm all ears. My truck is empty and if there is an alternative that I can go buy this morning, I'm all over it.
Please respond.
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Mon Sep 22 2008, 10:53AM
I will never buy a vehicle that doesn't run on gasoline.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Sep 22 2008, 11:06AM
Being able to shoot a gun is not a reason to vote for a person to lead our country,
But Keeping the Constitutional rights that MADE this country stronger and FREER then where our founders came from is.
They knew what they put on paper was what was needed for a people to stay free.
If you take away the means to protect yourself and family you open the door to what was, those that have the power (guns) rule.
Guns are not an end all to keeping this country free, our right to vote is what we use to do our battles.
This has been debated from the beginning of our country and will be debated till the end. When you give up your rights one by one you will not be free nor will you be able to speak out about the loss of your freedoms, give up one and they will take another then another all to protect you from yourself.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Sep 22 2008, 11:28AM
Gun rights are not the only reason to vote for a president.
but they may be the only reason we still can vote for a president.
I think a posative stand on the all /any of the constitution shows a lot about a candidate's moral compass which is a necessary part of choosing where to invest your vote.
I haven't been shooting in a couple of years, and don't expect to for some time.
I hope I will never have to fire a weapon again, but it is within easy reach right now If I need to.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Mon Sep 22 2008, 05:20PM
I always say they got the first two ammendments backwards. Without the 2nd, the rest are just a lot of hot air ... ESPECIALLY the 1st, tsk tsk.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Sep 26 2008, 12:24PM
want more on Mr. Obama's stance on gun control, here's a good artical on his actions.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Oct 12 2008, 12:40PM
was sent this and said "humm where would it fit?"
I was going to put it under the political thread but thought no needs some where else, under the video but no not there, so as I ran out of options I thought Oh yea under this one!
Hope you like Boston Legal.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Oct 12 2008, 04:18PM
Nice!!
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Sun Oct 12 2008, 04:34PM
bang!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Oct 12 2008, 05:34PM
very dumb move by Danny.
it's 2 to center mass 1 to the head
saves the taxpayers money. cheaper to bury him then to send to the Dr. then get sued by him.
you gotta love that guy
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Nov 20 2008, 11:35AM
I guess it is time to dust this one off again and post this video I just got
this is information on it.
I can't believe anything could kick like this. I have fired a 45-70 and it was no where near this bad.
hard to believe they would mention it in the same article.
[Click Here]
massive-recoil-rifle.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Nov 20 2008, 12:41PM
I've seen that before and it still is
Good for REALLY BIG GAME.
ps. I just got a new to me python, we need an event!
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Thu Nov 20 2008, 05:43PM
As a side note, my brother who is not a big fan of guns... With Obama going into office he ran out and bought one while he can, altho I can't see him banning them...
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Thu Nov 20 2008, 06:49PM
I'll take an AK please.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Thu Nov 20 2008, 06:59PM
AKs blow chunks ... literally. I'm leaning strongly toward either a .338 RUM (cheap way out) or a custom .338 Lapua (silly way out).
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Nov 20 2008, 07:21PM
If you're looking for a rifle with stopping power, go spend $125 at Big 5 and get yourself a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R. Cheap to shoot and more than enough power. Ask Jibber?
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Thu Nov 20 2008, 07:38PM
Haha yeah, but when Obama really is the anti-Christ, I'll need an automatic weapon with some stopping power.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Nov 20 2008, 08:15PM
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Dec 04 2008, 04:53PM
I had to re-open this for our "older" members, here's a nice easy piece for you to use for protection, and the FDA aproved it.
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Dec 04 2008, 05:31PM
Just priceless!
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Thu Dec 04 2008, 05:47PM
Just $125???
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Thu Dec 04 2008, 08:01PM
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Dec 04 2008, 08:18PM
with the new liberal Government it is more important then ever that you make your voices heard to your representatives loud and clear.
I heard one proposal that they are pushing is an ammo tax of as much as 800%.
they are after the pistols first.
I wouldn't be saying anything online on any guns you may have, just your rights to have them.
It won't be just guns but attacks on anything, and everything
I know everyone is busy, and concerned about other things but we have to do all we can. The other side is.
I think we can still save this country if we start defending all rights. Not just the ones you are deeply concerned with.
a couple of emails I have received recently
Remember how Obama said that he wasn't going to take your guns?
Well, it seems that his minions and allies in the anti-gun world have no problem with taking your ammo!
The bill that is being pushed in 18 states (including Illinois and Indiana) requires all ammunition to be encoded by the manufacture a data base of all ammunition sales. They will know how much you buy and what calibers. Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009 unless the ammunition is coded.
Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by July 1, 2011. (Including hand loaded ammo.) They will also charge a .05 cent tax on every round so every box of ammo you buy will go up at least $2.50 or more!
If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take your gun!
This legislation is currently pending in 18 states:
Alabama , Arizona , California , Connecticut , Hawaii , Illinois , Indiana , Kentucky , Maryland , Mississippi , Missouri , New Jersey , New York , Pennsylvania , Rhode Island , South Carolina , Tennessee , and Washington .
To find more about the anti-gun group that is sponsoring this legislation and the specific legislation for each state, go to:
[Click Here]
And of course, criminals will abide by this law too.
and
Subject: SHERIFF WANTS HOLDERS OF CONCEALED WEAPON PERMITS TO REMAIN PRIVATE - (INFO IN MESSAGE)
Kudos to Mr. Gilbertson - Would be nice to send the gentleman an e-mail. Address below. For those of you not from Colorado, we have a Jackson County here as well. I now know of 3 good Sheriffs in the US.... I'm sure there are others....
(OREGON) SHERIFF WANTS HOLDERS OF CONCEALED WEAPON PERMITS TO REMAIN PRIVATE
By Sheriff Gil Gilbertson
November 29, 2008
NewsWithViews.com
This Sheriff strongly believes in the Constitution and specifically the Second Amendment the right to bear arms. I must also stress the importance to those who choose to use weapons they do so in a responsible and safe manner.
Many of you may, or may not, have heard of a state-wide effort to disclose the names, addresses and other identifying information of licensed concealed handgun holders, which includes you.
This issue first arose in Jackson County when a Medford newspaper (Mail Tribune) requested a list of all concealed handgun license holders, in 2007. Jackson County Sheriff Michael Winters refused the request, citing a statute about the compromise of personal "security measures."
The Court ordered Jackson County Sheriff to provide the list of information about Jackson County CHL holders to the local newspaper. The Court stated there was no evidence that people get a CHL as a security measure. The case is currently on appeal to the Oregon Court of Appeals.
In short, the media (and other groups) are demanding that Sheriffs disclose your identity. The question becomes who really needs to know, and why? Is this just the media flexing their muscles? Once this information is exposed, what nefarious consequences can you anticipate? Identity theft is yet another succeeding concern to this needless exposure.
I do not know this to be true in every case, but I believe people seeking out and acquiring concealed handgun licenses do so for their security whether for business, personal, or family safety. In any case, I also assume they do not wish that information to become public. This is only an assumption on my part, which brings us to the purpose of this article.
I believe most, if not all, of you that obtained your CHL (Concealed Handgun License) did so as a security measure, and that you would not want everyone in the State to have your personal information I am asking that you contact the Civil Division of the Josephine County Sheriff Office to advise us on your position in this matter.
Depending on the outcome of the Appellate Court ruling, your personal information could become public.
As your Sheriff, I will do everything within my power to protect your privacy and maintain all rights and privileges secured by the Constitution, and laws. It is therefore important you inform us of your choice as soon as possible.
License holders who want to request protection of their records can respond by mail or stop by and sign our new form indicating your decision.
Recipients of this notice are asked to fill out yes or no responses to the following:
â I want my concealed handgun license information to be kept confidential and to be protected from release to the public.
â I applied for a CHL as a personal safety measure and I want all information about my application or license protected from release to the public.
The Sheriff’s Office welcome’s your questions and comments on this and any other topic of concern. Please contact us by phone at (541) 474-5120, or by email at jocosheriff©co.josephine.or.us
Related Articles:
1. County Asks Concealed Weapon Permit Holders If They Want to Remain Private
2. Sheriff joins effort to keep gun owners' names private
© 2008 Gil Gilbertson - All Rights Reserved
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Dec 06 2008, 07:48AM
sure grandma with a semi is cute but efore you turn her, or yourself loose with a gun consider this
click on image to enlarge
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Dec 06 2008, 07:56AM
this probably should be in it's own thread but if you have the time as twilight presidental pardons begin a letter to George Bush along these lines may make a difference.
If you are not aware of who these guys are do a search on their names. They are the two border patrol guys in prison for shooting a drug importer in the butt.
email to
comments©whitehouse.gov,President Bush
Now that your term is ending and you will be offering pardons please consider giving pardons to Compean and Ramos Who do not deserve to be in prison any longer.
Thank you
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Sat Dec 06 2008, 06:20PM
Gun show in ontario on Jan 3 and 4 There will be some good deals on ammo. better stock up while you can
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sat Dec 06 2008, 06:38PM
hmmm.. Do I really need any "extra ammo"?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Dec 06 2008, 07:31PM
if you have ammo it is not extra, when you have no ammo it is the end.
A few words from the NRA:
**** Alert *** Alert *** Alert ****
Dear Fellow NRA Member,
In the next few days, you'll receive your new NRA membership card.
The moment you receive it, I urge you to validate your new membership card as soon as possible. More than ever, we need you to stand with NRA and fight to save our Second Amendment freedoms.
Because Barack Obama's campaign promise
not to take away our guns is a lie.
He's not even in office, yet he's fired the opening salvos in a war against the future of the Second Amendment, our hunting and shooting traditions, and YOU.
Obama's FIRST attack on YOU: Appointing Illinois Congressman Rahm Emanuel to be White House Chief of Staff. In Congress, Emanuel earned an "F" rating from NRA, and while working in the Clinton Administration, he was known as the "point man on gun control." He is an avowed enemy of the Second Amendment and will wield enormous power in the battle for the future of our firearm freedoms.
Obama's SECOND attack on YOU: If Hillary Clinton is confirmed as Secretary of State, she'll rip the Second Amendment right out of the Bill of Rights. She'll be our nation's top diplomat with the power to determine whether the United Nations will pass, and Obama will sign, a global gun ban treaty that will surrender our Second Amendment rights and our national sovereignty.
Obama's THIRD attack on YOU: Nominating ex-Senator and former Majority Leader Tom Daschle-an avowed enemy of NRA-to be Secretary of Health and Human Services. NRA was responsible for defeating Daschle when he ran in South Dakota for re-election to the Senate. If Daschle is confirmed, he could hold the ultimate power to declare guns a "public health menace" and regulate away our essential liberties.
Obama's FOURTH attack on YOU: Nominating Eric Holder to be Attorney General. As former Assistant Attorney General, Holder was a key architect and vocal advocate for the Clinton era's sweeping gun ban agenda. He supported national handgun licensing, mandatory trigger locks, and ending gun shows as we know them.
Just recently, Holder opposed the District of Columbia's Heller decision that declared the Second Amendment an individual right. Holder also called for reviving the Clinton gun bans and, as Attorney General, would fight in court to prevent the landmark Heller decision from being made applicable to state and local governments.
Worst of all, if Holder is confirmed as the nation's top law-enforcement officer, he would control BATFE and wield enormous power to harass gun owners and sue America's arms makers out of existence.
Obama's FIFTH attack on YOU: In the job application for the Obama Administration, he made it clear that gun owners are second-class citizens and told 80 million gun owners not to even bother applying for a job. In the "White House Personnel Data Questionnaire" he asked:
"Do you or any members of your immediate family own a gun? If so, provide
complete ownership and registration information. Has the registration ever
lapsed? Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has
been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage."
This chilling notice to gun owners-that they are not welcome to serve in his Administration-shows the deep hostility for Americans' Second Amendment Freedoms that Obama and his Administration have in their hearts.
On its face, that question endorses gun registration-a mandate in only five states in our nation-and buys into the anti-gun premise that firearms are inherently dangerous and gun owners are prone to misusing them.
That's an outrageous mindset, especially for the President-elect whose sworn duty will be to uphold the U.S. Constitution, including our right to keep and bear arms.
Obama CLEARLY wants to make gun registration the law of the land.
First for employees under his control...AND THEN FOR YOU.
Working with a Congress dominated by gun haters like Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, John Conyers, Henry Waxman, and Charles Schumer!!!
Rubbing salt in gun owner wounds is the Brady Campaign, which just issued a completely bogus poll claiming that two-thirds of the Americans-including 60% of all gun owners-favor gun registration, licensing of firearm owners, and other sweeping restrictions on our firearm freedoms!
Add it all up and you have the potential
for a Second Amendment disaster that's unlike
any other NRA members have ever battled.
That's why we need the strongest possible commitment from EVERY NRA member, starting today. That's why I'm hoping you'll validate your new NRA membership card the moment you receive it.
Because our greatest strength is you.
Only by working with you can NRA hold the line against these threats from every quarter. We are the one force that has the strength to keep Americans free and our rights intact for future generations. With you at our side, we will fight and we will prevail against all odds.
Thank you for your loyalty to NRA and the cause of Freedom.
Forward this E-Mail to Friends
and Urge Them to Join NRA Today!
-------------------------- --------
National Rifle Association * 11250 Waples Mill Road * Fairfax, VA 22030
If you would like to remove yourself from this list, please click here and you will be removed immediately. Thank you.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Sun Dec 07 2008, 06:06PM
Shot off a couple hundred rounds today and got three new guns dialed in. now i need to stock up on new ammo.
Re: Gun ownership
Shiraz, Mon Dec 08 2008, 11:33AM
Short and simply put, this is "Obamunism."
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Mon Dec 08 2008, 02:55PM
Dumb question, but just what is the shelf life for ammo?
Say a box of 22LR cartridges? And just what should I
do with them if they are by consensus 'too old' to be safely
fired?
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Mon Dec 08 2008, 03:37PM
i suggest you throw them in a fire and if they go off they were good
Re: Gun ownership
Shiraz, Mon Dec 08 2008, 03:48PM
You can fire off old rounds. I've fired .22 rounds from the 70's without any problem.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Dec 08 2008, 04:30PM
as long as it has not gotten soaked with water or oil, it will still be good.
All it will do if either has happened is go pop not bang.
And if it goes pop don't fire the gun again till you check that the barrel is not blocked, This has happened and was not a pretty sight.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Dec 08 2008, 04:37PM
Get what you can now. They are going to make them produce ammo that will have a shelf life.
Get quality ammo and it should keep a long time if you keep it and dry.
Be sure you read the articles from a few days on some of the things they are trying to do to interfer with your rights.
Be sure you send comments to senators, representatives, and the president on all the things that come up for vote that you disagre with.
It is more important now then ever before.
Not all threats will come from the government.
Also if you can afford it join the NRA to add yourself to their numbers.
Much easier to keep our freedom with letters then to try and take them back later on.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Tue Dec 09 2008, 12:41PM
I would like to reiterate Bills grandsons point and please join the NRA. Also, we are going to have our annual Friends of the NRA banquet this June at the Convention Center. More details as we get closer. Please think about helping out by becoming a committee member. We really could use the help.
Also, if any of you are interested in obtaining an AR-15, better do it now before Obama bans them. You can buy pieces of them, starting with the lower receiver (which is the part that gets registered) and buying the other parts as you can afford. The lowers have already doubled in price since Obama won.
Remember, the 2nd Amendment guarantees all of the rest.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Dec 09 2008, 12:57PM
That would be neat. What do they go for now?
and is that in 223 cal?
And is their an option on selector switches? Would like to bury an extra one in case it ever needed to be replaced for some reason.
I noticed an add yesterday for an AR-15 paint ball gun. Looked tike the real thing even to the color. Sad to think my thought was someone getting shot by accident for carrying one.
I have my grandfathers wallet, and keychain with his lifetime membership to NRA stamped on it. When I can afford it I will buy that before I get my automobile club card back.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Wed Dec 10 2008, 01:18PM
You can get in 223 or 308. The Lower receivers are from 165-400 Dollars. The rest of the rifle would vary from about 600 to 2000, depending on the "flavor" you want. As far as the selector switches, there are all kinds of options. Do a search.
I just bought another lower yesterday, they are going fast.
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Wed Dec 10 2008, 03:11PM
Thanks for the info -- the shells I have are from the late 70's but have been stored well, so I guess we'll give them a try.
I too have concerns about the second amendment since the election and expect to do some shopping soon (need to figure out exactly what to get while you can still get 'em).
And I will be signing up with NRA too.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Thu Dec 11 2008, 09:39AM
For those of you who will be signing up with the NRA: Please consider attending the Friends of the NRA event in June, details to follow...
Last June we gave door prizes away to about 1/2 of the people in attendance. They ranged from pizzas to jewelry certificates to day passes to Snow Summit. Besides, it is all for a great cause...to help organizations that promote youth shooting sports and safety. Hope to see you there in June!!!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Mon Dec 15 2008, 01:08PM
Yes!
Current collection:
Still looking for a long range rifle in 7.62X54 (.308) caliber and a couple .22 LR handgunds to complete my collection.
The Mrs. and I miss having CCW's; one of the trade offs of moving back to the People's Republic of California.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Dec 16 2008, 06:17AM
Texas state representative, Suzanna Gratia-Hupp, whose parents were killed by an insane gunman while her gun was out in the car, gives very moving and bold testimony about the REAL reason that the second amendment was designed to protect our God-given right to keep and bear arms
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Dec 16 2008, 06:45AM
In case you may not remember this incident here is a story on it.
There was another incident a couple of years later where employes were herded into a walk in at another restaurant and excecuted Soon after this incident Texas passed a concealed weapon law , and violent crime in San Antonio dropped by 70 percent over the next five years
It was widly said that had a couple of people been armed at the Luby's this guy wouldn't have had 15 minutes to shoot so many innocent people.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Dec 16 2008, 06:53AM
Some people may think RubiCrawlerLJ's collection is excessive.
When I was growing up our family must have had at least 30. Many collected over the years, starting with my grandfather.
None of these were ever used in a crime, or even fired at anyone (except for one incident that I have heard of where my grandfather may have fired from his doorway. but were necessary a few times for self protection and killed a lot of deer to feed our family.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Tue Dec 16 2008, 08:27AM
An uncle came from a farming family in PA. When I was about 5, I remember visiting the old farmhouse. The basement covered the entire area of the old house. The rafters in the basement were literally filled with all kinds of long guns, collected over generations. Everyone in that family was a crack shot. That uncle was one of the last to be extracted from Corregidor in WWII during the invasion.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Dec 17 2008, 07:34AM
If you guys/gals would care to compare the crime statistics from states and municipalities that trust their citizenry to carry concealed weapons versus those that ban firearms or severely restrict their ownership, you will note a direct correlation between their crime rates.
Also, have you ever noticed that states such as Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc. never make the news for drive-by shooting episodes?
Can you say that "an armed society is a polite society"
Question:
Why was getting drunk, choosing to drive your car while impaired and driving said car into a bus bench full of people only vehicle manslaughter yet, getting drunk, driving up to the same bus bench and shooting at the same people called murder?
Isn't the end result the same?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Dec 28 2008, 02:28PM
Continuing the fight for freedom accross the USA.
[Click Here]
Local view: Firearms prohibitionists take their meddling to people’s living rooms
A week before Minnesota’s firearm deer season I visited my 86-year-old father. He regaled me with an entertaining stream of tales from his 70 years as a deer hunter in the north woods. He lamented his failing eyesight and then rose from his ancient recliner and went to the closet where he keeps his guns. He took out a battered old case and handed it me. “I want you to have this.”
By: Russ Stewart , Duluth News Tribune
A week before Minnesota’s firearm deer season I visited my 86-year-old father. He regaled me with an entertaining stream of tales from his 70 years as a deer hunter in the north woods. He lamented his failing eyesight and then rose from his ancient recliner and went to the closet where he keeps his guns. He took out a battered old case and handed it me. “I want you to have this.”
I knew what was inside. A Savage model 219 single-shot 30-30 rifle. My father bought it in 1944 for $12. It’s well worn after more than 60 years of hard use. It was an honor to be given such an heirloom. Over the past few years my father has passed on most of his modest collection of firearms to his children and grandchildren. It is his way of passing on our family’s heritage.
However, if some people had their way, my father would be a felon the next time he passed on a firearm to a family member. These people complain about a so-called “gun show loophole,” which, if you were to accept the rhetoric of firearm prohibitionists, is responsible for an endless stream of death and carnage.
In truth, attempts to close the “loophole” are really attacks on cherished freedoms that have been quietly enjoyed by millions of Americans since the founding of our nation. With the exception of those unfortunate residents of a few nanny-states, citizens of the U.S. always have been able to gift, buy, sell and trade firearms without the interference of government.
But if people like Duluth’s Joan Peterson, a member of the national board of trustees of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (and the author of the Dec. 9 Local View commentary, “ ‘Gun show loophole,’ still open in Minnesota, must be closed”) are able to enact their legislative agenda, this liberty will be extinguished. The sad part is that if they are successful, crime rates would be unaffected. It is well established that only a tiny fraction of guns used to commit crimes come from gun shows. But that doesn’t stop the prohibitionists from scaring people with exaggerated stories.
Peterson wrote that we need to pass a law to “require unlicensed sellers to perform background checks on buyers at gun shows and other venues.” What she didn’t write was that these “other venues” include my father’s living room. The proposed legislation requires a background check for every private firearm bought, sold or gifted. So when Peterson claimed the proposed law “wouldn’t change anything for law-abiding citizens,” she was simply wrong.
Another thing firearm prohibitionists won’t tell you is that in order for a universal background check system to be effective, every gun would need to be registered with the government.
There are those who would take offense at my use of the term “prohibitionist” to describe members of groups like the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the Northland Million Moms, but actions speak louder than words. While speaking of “reasonable gun laws,” they advocate a program of incremental prohibition of private firearm ownership.
Our nation already has more than 20,000 laws relating to firearms, and 99 percent of them are an affront to liberty. As new laws are introduced in response to Brady Campaign scare tactics, I am reminded of the words of Ben Franklin: “They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security.”
I’ve got news for the prohibitionists of the world. My father won’t give up his freedom to pass on his legacy without government interference — and neither will I, nor will my family, nor my friends. Nor will millions of other freedom-loving citizens. The passage of a new set of gun-control laws would simply create a new class of felons out of formerly law-abiding citizens.
And that may have a set of unintended consequences all its own.
RUSS STEWART of Duluth served two terms on the City Council and is a professor at Lake Superior College.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 11 2009, 11:02PM
In the spirit of the fairness doctrine we feel obligated to air this public service announcement by those who support gun control to prevent them from becoming victims of sensles gun violence.
you can help provide a feeling of safety by posting a sign stating you are a gun free home and supporting the Obama administration in their attempt to ban more guns
thank you
gun.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 12 2009, 06:27AM
Really not funny, it's true but not funny. It makes a good point, a very good point.
Re: Gun ownership
Lalala, Thu Feb 12 2009, 07:17AM
Good for her. We have the right to Bear Arms,. This is America!
Re: Gun ownership
Lalala, Thu Feb 12 2009, 07:19AM
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Feb 15 2009, 08:46AM
D. L. Hugley gose to a gun shop, as seen on CNN.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 19 2009, 06:25AM
Looks like another part of the "change" we were promised is starting. This will be the first shot in our REVOLUTIONARY WAR 2 If you wern't convinced they want to yake us to socialism this should do it. The events in the world are leading the depression with countries with as high as 20 % unemployment begining to react with their governments. Mexico is said to be on the verge of collapse. and millions more will want out.
Our time is coming and they want us disarmed before the revolution starts here.
Send me one of them tinfoil hats I am starting to believe in the FEMA camps
whats next? the mark of the beast?
We all might be forced to make a decison of where the line in the sand will be drawn. If this one is crossed we will be lost.
their are movements in states to seperate from most of the Federal Government. Might be our fall back to force our states to withdraw in unison and start over with the constitution and try it again. God bless us all if that happens
Are you ready for House Bill 'HR 45, The Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009'. It will make it illegal to
own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C.
As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a
valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health
records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and any ownership changes even if a
private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill
and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief
of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Will we the citizenry be as lucky this time?
Remember; laws only apply to those who obey them. Criminals by definition and nature do not abide by laws. New
laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizen and are not written with the criminal in mind. With guns,
it is not about having laws on the books to prosecute individuals; it is about taking guns away from the people so
that no one has them in the first place. One last item to note, when assuming power and creating a fascist state,
Hitler was a proponent of strong gun laws because a disarmed populace was much easier to control than an armed one.
The kings of old also outlawed weapons of any kind in any region that they conquered to quell the ability of the
citizens to rise against them.
The Founding Fathers of this nation understood all of the above and because of this they included the second
amendment in the constitution. In fact, they knew that at some point in every society's life span that the need for
the population to arise came about. To this end they made the right to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical state
an absolute right that could not be revoked.
They did this because the first thing tyrants and despots do is to remove a population's right to defend themselves
When this is done, the tyrants have no problem with the destruction of society as we know it.
Send this on to all true patriots! Protect your Second Amendment!
The following is a summary of the bill as provided by the Congressional Research Service. If you read the whole
bill, you'll find it will effectively preclude the ownership of ANY firearms by law-abiding people unless licensed by
the Attorney General. How long do you think THAT would take??
Congressional Research Service Summary
1/6/2009-- Introduced.
Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - Amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention
Act to prohibit a person from possessing a firearm unless that person has been issued a firearm license under this Act
or a state system certified under this Act and such license has not been invalidated or revoked.
Prohibits transferring or receiving a qualifying firearm unless the recipient presents a valid firearms
license, the license is verified, and the dealer records a tracking authorization number. Prescribes firearms transfer
reporting and record keeping requirements. Directs the Attorney General to establish and maintain a federal record of
sale system.
Prohibits: (1) transferring a firearm to any person other than a licensee, unless the transfer is processed through a
licensed dealer in accordance with national instant criminal background check system requirements.
(2) keeping a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammunition for the firearm, knowingly or recklessly
disregarding the risk that a child is capable of gaining access.
Establish and maintain a firearm injury information clearinghouse; conduct continuing studies and investigations of
firearm-related deaths and injuries; and collect and maintain current production and sales figures of each licensed
manufacturer. Authorizes the Attorney General to certify state firearm licensing or record of sale systems.
You can follow the sequence as it happened in Canada; Britton; Australia; and California. Yes my friends ask someone
from California about "Oh, we just want to get all the Semi-Automatic type firearms registered for the safety of the
populace!" RIGHT!!! Ask a Californian where his SKS is; or where his AK-47 is; and God forbid they might want to shoot
DCM with an AR-15!!! They are GONE!!!! Once the government found out where all the legal semi-automatic rifles were
they passed a law BANNING them!!!! First the government needs to register the guns so they will know where to find
them; then they will TAKE them!!!!!!!!!!!
Please pass this along: House Bill HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009 will, in my opinion, be the
first of 2 or 3 steps toward confiscation of privately owned firearms.
Even if you do not own a gun or ever would; be very afraid of a government that would remove your freedoms no matter
what that freedom is!! Tell your representatives to vote NO on HR 45 and any bill like it!
If you are not currently a member of the NRA, now would be an excellent time to sign up!
Re: Gun ownership
Lalala, Thu Feb 19 2009, 08:33AM
BG, This is so complex for gun owners. Not good and very Non-American.
"Right to Bear Arms" is the American way and was written for a reason. America's founding Fathers had the right idea.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 19 2009, 08:54AM
about all I can say is to quote Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
I'm sure the first to defend their 2nd amendment will be linked to Timothy McVeigh, and ruby ridge. as Anarchists.
I hope that history will remember them as patriots.
it is all your point of view where terrorist stops and freedom fighter begins.
I hope this madness is stopped before it goes any farther
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 19 2009, 10:30AM
fortunatly this is dead in the water and will not be passed, at least that is the report from the NRA. and a bunch of gun forums.
But that does not mean they will not try again.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 19 2009, 10:45AM
bkap
I hope you are right but
check the date on your research. It was killed last year. This is supposed to be another try with a more cooperative congress
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 19 2009, 10:50AM
yes and it is all over the gun forums, they wanted to slip it in to the stimulass bill but it got yanked.
Re: Gun ownership
DieselDave, Fri Feb 20 2009, 01:02AM
Yes, absolutly, Americans should have the right to own guns. I also feel that gun safety is also very important and training should be mandatory.
Re: Gun ownership
Lalala, Fri Feb 20 2009, 06:57AM
Exactly, DieselDave
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 24 2009, 11:45AM
Assembly Member Steve Knight has introduced this bill with changes t the wording that makes it more friendly to CCW.
the story is here.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 24 2009, 11:54AM
Sounds a little better
carry permits were not hard to get in S.B. county when we had cowboy sherriff's. the new one I know nothing about. I would have had no problem with the last 5 in getting a permit.
they can always inerpret "proof that theperson applying is of good moral character"
anyway they want I would prefer it to say
(1) (A) The sheriff of a county, unless proof that theperson applying is of poor moral character, convicted felon, politician or democrat
but that may be to much to ask
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 24 2009, 11:57AM
ah Bill, that would be good. I will just take the small steps in the right direction for now though.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Feb 27 2009, 09:03AM
got this in an email thought I would forward it for discussion
7.62 and 9 mm are calibers that have been chosen by many for their pesonal weapons.
Might be a good idea to buy that reloading equiptment you have been considering
could be a very good closet industry in the future
State Department Floating Ammo Import Ban
It looks like those who said the Obama Administration would strike while the iron is hot may have been correct, and the Administration may be doing it in a way that does not require them to even get a vote in Congress. In this morning's edition of the Shooting Wire, Jim Shepherd writes that Canadian officials have it on "good authority" our State Department may be on the verge of cutting off all imports of certain calibers of ammunition.
Ammos listed for this rumored ban include the .50BMG, 7.62x39mm Soviet, 7.62x51mm NATO, .308 Winchester , 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington. Additionally, we're hearing that an expansion of this proposed ban might be broadened to include the 6.8mm SPC, 9mm Parabellum, .40 S&W, and ..45 ACP- among others.
In other words, State Department officials may be floating a trial balloon to see if there are howls of protest, or whimpers of compliance. Canadian elected officials who have directed this information to me say the move seems to be motivated by "emboldened" anti-gun officials who think they have a kindred spirit in President Obama.
Shepherd continues that there may also be a plan to ban exports on certain firearms to Canada from the US, resulting in the State Department hammering gun manufacturers, distributors and exporters in the United States while simultaneously making firearms -and ammunition - ownership and acquisition more difficult for Canadians.
Many in the pro-rights community have said since the election that Obama could circumvent Congress by using regulations in his various cabinet departments to attack gun owners. It appears that it may have already begun.
Posted by VSSA President at 8:01 AM
Re: Gun ownership
STAXX, Sat Feb 28 2009, 08:29PM
This is a pretty prominent gun thread on this board so I'll post my question here:
The local range is closed for the winter. ??
Is there another place for shoothing up here?
Also, anyone know the rules for shooting - just like -in the woods or wilderness?
Where does one need to go to be legal shooting "in the wild" nearby?
Thanks.
PM's are good...I'm bad at tracing post replies.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Sat Feb 28 2009, 10:02PM
All the Arrastre shooting ranges are open off 2N02. 2 nice ones out ynader... Have yet to cruise out due to all the snow, but it should be cleared up I imagine by now. Who's games for some time next week?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Mar 01 2009, 12:29AM
mgh
If you click the "track thread" box in the upper right corner of the thread you can receive an email when there is a post. That way we all can share the info.
We used to shoot at cactus flats And I would love to shoot the 50 caliber sniper rifle if there were one in the gropu 1500 yards would be possiblee there and it would be awsome. But it must cost at least 10.00 per round.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun Mar 01 2009, 07:23AM
I have written to my state assemblyman and senator urging support for AB 357. I think the bill number is interesting!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Mar 01 2009, 07:53AM
not a bad idea
I have gotten to many symptoms watching TV
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Mar 01 2009, 08:04AM
actualy i confuesd your bill with this one wich I am also in favor with especialy if it gets the colon cleanning commercials off the air
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
STAXX, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:33AM
Damn! You guys rock!
I searched 2N02 on Google
Got to this:
[Click Here]
Plus like 155 CA ranges!
Also found the Track Thread link.
And agreed.
If anyone is shooting a 50cal. I'd love a chance too!
Thanks
mgh
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 02 2009, 03:37AM
You can find people on this site that enjoy about any hobby that you can think of. It is a diverse group with very intelligent people
there are more areas that are actualy open if you have a hunting licens during season for animals.
I have always wondered what the situation was for varmit and predator hunting in areas, and how that could conflict with forest service regulations.
When deer hunting season came around The forest service, and fire stations used to have a map available that showed the closures.
An adventure pass is also required to park in the forest but there is a "free day" every month. Check the FS site for these regulations.
When I was a kid we had a shooting area at the SW corner of Baldwin lake that we used as well as duck hunting in both big bear and baldwin lake. Also bird hunting when bear lake was down (dove)
There are also closures from the sheriffs office
It can become confusing at times.
here is some info on sniper rifles
[Click Here]
not sure if you could stretch the regulations to call it a 50 caliber varmit rifle
there are videos and still shots of the use of these weapons but they are pretty gross so I would prefer you research these if you are interested
they are easy to find but are difficult to watch.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Mar 02 2009, 09:31AM
Thanks for the info. It's a bummer they don't open up hunting for coyotes. The place is way over populated and they're worthless creates. Except to control the rabbit population, and cats, small children etc.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 02 2009, 10:46AM
Just a little info about coyote's
From: Dept. of Agriculture state of Ca.
Damage
Coyotes can cause substantial damage. In rural areas they oftentimes kill sheep, calves, and poultry. In some parts of the state they cause damage to drip irrigation systems by biting holes in the pipe. In other areas they cause considerable damage to watermelons, citrus fruits, and avocados. Aircraft safety is often jeopardized when coyotes take up residence on or near runways. Coyotes have also been known to prey on various endangered/threatened species, including the San Joaquin kit fox and the California least tern. In urban and suburban areas, coyotes commonly take domestic house cats, small dogs, poultry, and other domestic animals. Coyotes have been known to attack humans, and in one case, a three-year-old girl was killed by a coyote in southern California.
Direct Control
Where coyotes continue to be a problem after non-lethal methods have proven unsuccessful or when human health and safety is jeopardized, it is sometimes necessary to kill one or more animals. Coyotes can be shot where legal and appropriate or captured using a variety of restraining devices. Generally speaking, cage traps are not effective in capturing adult coyotes.
Laws and Regulations
Coyotes are not threatened or endangered in California. They are classified as nongame mammals by the Department of Fish and Game and as such can be taken at any time using approved methods. California Department of Fish and Game regulations prohibit the relocation of coyotes without written permission from the Department. For further information on the legal status of coyotes and other wildlife contact your local California Department of Fish and Game Regional Office.
For further information or assistance in solving coyote problems, contact your local agricultural commissioner.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Mar 02 2009, 10:48AM
So I ask, can I shootem?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 02 2009, 10:55AM
YES, but you should have a ca hunting licence, and they must be being a pest, also you don't need to take the carcus.
Just check with the Forest service before you go out for a walk.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Mar 02 2009, 11:20AM
Outstanding. Where would I obtain such a license?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 02 2009, 11:56AM
you need to take a Hunting and safty class to get one. The class is well worth it as the education on gun and personel safty in the woods is excellant (at least were I went).
Class cost $20.00 and licence was $10.00.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:11PM
Haven't checked in a long time, but the season on jackrabbits used to be open year round. That effectively made them equivalent to vermin. When it comes to crop damage, they are absolutely the worst enemy. The coyotes can't keep up with them. I had an acquaintance who raised Whippets and Greyhounds, and he used them for dog food. He'd also let the dogs hunt them, but carefully selected the area for that activity.
I used to hunt them with a bow. That is the ultimate example of 'running with scissors'!!!
Bottom line, jackrabbits are good moving target practice.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:18PM
we used to hunt them from the hoods of cars racing around baldwin lake at night. we used shotguns but I'm not sure if we ever shot one. I did catch one by the ears one night. We figured if the driver turned off the lights we could jump off and get them before they could see in the dark. Didn't figure in that we wouldn't be able to see either.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:22PM
That was quite a feat! I was following one down a smooth desert road and we topped out at 45 mph. While cruising at 45 mph, the jack made a hard right!!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:26PM
we played with headlights to try to get them to freeze but they could sure out corner us. I think I probably just happened to zig when he zagged I wasn't very fleet of foot even then.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:33PM
They use to pay .10 a rabbit here in the 40 and 50's when this was all farmland.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Mar 02 2009, 06:06PM
I've got rabbits in my yard. Maybe we should have a "redneck party" at my house and make up some rabbit stew?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 02 2009, 06:39PM
I was always warned about eating wild rabbit because they carried some disease.
I friends dad raised cotten tails for food and never seemed to run out.
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Mon Mar 02 2009, 06:53PM
Cottontails are usually fine after the first frost of fall and through winter. After that they are not recommended for consumption. We will generally shoot several in October (in Utah) at deer camp and roast them over the fire. Taste like chicken!
!bunny
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Mon Mar 02 2009, 06:56PM
Of course be cautious when hunting either yotes or rabbits, as the tides are changing!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Mar 03 2009, 08:15AM
I got this picture in an email of a mule deer shot on the King ranch in Texas.
If you arn't aware of the King ranch it is the largest "ranch" in the U.S. actually 4 divisons total of 1,300 square miles
Growing up in Big Bear I thought I knew what a deer was untill I had a buck like this run out in front of me on a road in texas at 2:00 AM in a VW at 85 MPH
King Ranch Deer
Think you might pull the trigger on this one?????????
That's a Deer that could give you a Heart Attack!
This deer came off the King Ranch.
A wes ome Deer..... is one of the biggest we have ever seen.
Inside spread: 34 inches
Beams: 32 inches each
G1: 10 inches ea
G2: 14 in. ea
G3: 15 in. ea
G4: 11 in. ea
Mass: 45 inches
Droptine: 7 inches
We have him grossing around 243 and netting 224 typical. The deer field
dressed 228lbs!!!!! One of the biggest we have ever seen.
Justin Field
King Ranch Wildlife
Biologist
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Mar 03 2009, 10:36AM
No worries, I'll just go shoot them now that I know I can. thanks!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Mar 03 2009, 01:54PM
Benny, thats just it, you need the licence to shoot them and can only get it after you take a class.
So what I'm saying is No licence, No shoot. or the Mr. Ranger sir will be a talking to ya.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Tue Mar 03 2009, 02:13PM
I remember this one time at band camp...
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Mar 03 2009, 03:40PM
No worries, I took the class and have a license. BANG! BANG BANG BANG!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Mar 03 2009, 05:35PM
Very cool, would love to go. take a 22 for sm game or you will just have a bunch of hair flying around.
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Tue Mar 03 2009, 06:19PM
Theres nothing quite like hitting a fluffy bunny or wiley coyote with a 180 grain bullet doing 3,000 fps out of a 300 WSM. Except maybe a .50 cal.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Mar 03 2009, 06:28PM
How could you tell if you hit him or he just ran off? I think a 50 cal would vaporise him and there wouldn't even be a drop of blood left
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Tue Mar 03 2009, 07:16PM
Thats the idea. Not as messy.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 04 2009, 06:37AM
Oden, you need to visit: [Click Here]
You might like it here.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 04 2009, 10:05AM
Oh this is a good one!!!!
[Click Here]
Justice Department to force criminals to register illegal guns
By Scott Ott
Examiner Columnist | 2/26/09 6:06 PM
Scrappleface: News fairly unbalanced. We report. You decipher
In an effort to reduce gun violence nationwide, Attorney General Eric Holder said today that the Obama administration will reinstate the Clinton-era assault weapons ban that expired in 2004, adding new provisions to make it even more effective at saving lives.
Under the revised rules, people who intend to commit crimes with stolen guns, for example, will first need to register those weapons with the federal government.
"Guns don't kill people," said Mr. Holder, "Unregistered, stolen guns kill people. Once we have a list of all of the guns owned by potential criminals, it will be much easier to track down the origin of a weapon that's been used in a robbery or murder."
The Justice Department plans to open illegal gun registration kiosks in pawn shops, urban parking garages and abandoned buildings in high-profile locations to make the registration process "as easy and painless as possible."
In addition to the registration requirement, the definition of 'assault weapon' has been expanded to include not only certain semi-automatic guns with pistol grips, large magazines, silencers or collapsible stocks, but any weapon that can be used to assault another person.
"About 14 percent of murderers use knives," the Attorney General said. "Another five percent kill with blunt objects, and 11 percent with other weapons. The way to stop all of this, of course, is to compile a database at the federal level of all sharp kitchen utensils, hand tools, belts, lengths of rope, hangers, pillows and other potentially-deadly weapons."
President Barack Obama has said he agrees with the Supreme Court's D.C. vs. Heller decision which asserted that the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees an individual right to "keep and bear arms."
"The president is fully behind the Heller decision," said Mr. Holder, "and he also supports common-sense laws to prevent any practical application of that ruling. All we're trying to do now is to eliminate the discriminatory distinction between so-called law-abiding citizens and the rest of us."
Examiner columnist Scott Ott is editor in chief of ScrappleFace.com, the family-friendly news satire site, and anchor of ScrappleFace Network News (SNN), seen on YouTube.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Mar 04 2009, 11:03AM
They should have the registration in front of banks.
kind of a one stop shop deal
this has got to be a joke. nobody, even in the federal government could be this stupid
oh I forgot the hippies are in charge now, maybe they should put daisy's in the gun barrels to promote love
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Wed Mar 04 2009, 11:14AM
I can think of a better place for the feds to put their "plan" and their dasies. Does that make me a criminal?
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Mar 04 2009, 11:43AM
Yes, it's a joke, just like it says right there...
DOH!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 04 2009, 12:20PM
some people really believe what they read!
If we can't have a laugh now and then we will flood the world from crying!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Mar 04 2009, 01:02PM
hope your not speaking of moi
since I said it must be a joke.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 04 2009, 04:13PM
bg, nope not you
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Wed Mar 04 2009, 05:37PM
Whatever.
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Wed Mar 04 2009, 08:58PM
I got my grandson his first Red Ryder BB gun for Christmas! He's already an awsome shot!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Wed Mar 04 2009, 09:18PM
Thats cool. You have obviously seen "A Christmas Story". Safety First! Start shopping now for a nice .22, Christmas is just around the corner again!
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Wed Mar 04 2009, 09:25PM
Oden, we have more guns than Mike Tysons has ears!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Wed Mar 04 2009, 09:38PM
Good for you! One more never hurts right? I always tell my wife that the next gun will be my last one, and so on, and so on. Gotta get a bigger safe now!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Mar 04 2009, 10:53PM
ShamrocKK
my mom never let me have a BB gun she was afraid I'd put my eye out.
Istarted with an over and under 4/10 & 22
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Mar 05 2009, 06:18AM
Oden, not pickin' on you either.
Need weather to warm up for the 3rd annual(I think it is the 3rd) greet and shoot.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Mar 05 2009, 10:28PM
At the bottom there are some links to fax your representatives or make a donation to this group. I received this in an email and know little about the group but the threat is real
Subject: Obama Lies To Gun Owners As Holder Reveals Gun Attack Plan
From: "WorldNetDaily"Subject: Obama Lies To Gun Owners As Holder Reveals Gun Attack Plan
Thank you for your continued support of WorldNetDaily.com. WND occasionally sends emails like this one to introduce carefully selected advertisers to our loyal readers and valued customers. Below you will find a special message from the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
Thank you again, from the team at WorldNetDaily.com!
Obama Lies To Gun Owners As Holder Reveals Gun Attack Plan
As a presidential candidate, Barack Obama deliberately and repeatedly lied to America's 90 million gun owners across the country when he insisted that he would not try to take away anyone's firearms, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms said today.
CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb, reacting to yesterday's remarks by Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder that the president will seek to reinstate the ban on semi-automatic firearms, said Obama "knew he was lying to the nation because his own website touted his plan to revive the gun ban and make it permanent."
Select Here to Reject Gun Bans and Fax to all 100 Senators and all 435 House Representatives
"We warned America that Obama's 'support' for the Second Amendment was empty rhetoric," he stated, "and now Holder's disclosure has confirmed it. Obama was lying, and now gun rights may be dying."
Several times on the campaign trail, Obama told voters "I'm not going to take your guns away." He said it at rallies in Duryea, Pennsylvania and in Boise, Idaho. He also told a news conference that "Lawful gun owners have nothing to fearÂ…I think people can take me at my word."
"Right now," said Gottlieb, "I wouldn't take Obama's word if he said it rains a lot in Seattle. Apparently, law-abiding gun owners have nothing to fear unless they own sport-utility rifles, semiautomatic shotguns, handguns and any other firearm that Obama and his anti-gun attorney general don't like.
"Thanks to Eric Holder, who has been far more honest than his boss about his anti-gun philosophy, it is now clear that the new president doesn't support the Second Amendment at all," he observed. "American gun owners should remind Democrats in Congress that the Second Amendment means what it says, especially when the president doesn't."
Select Here to Reject Gun Bans and Fax to all 100 Senators and all 435 House Representatives
In order to stop Obama and his fellow Democrat gun-grabberswe need to let the Congress know with thousands of faxes telling them to leave guns alone.
Americans like you who understand what our Founding Fathers envisioned for our nation…and who are willing to fight to defend our Constitution and for what it stands.
So please, help the Citizens Committee and me defeat those who wish to gut and trash the United States Constitution.
Help me flood the U.S. Senate and the House with the sea of FAXES big enough to drown each and every Senator and Representative willing to vote away the Second Amendment.
Please, send your Donation and FAX TODAY!
Select Here to Reject Gun Bans and Fax to all 100 Senators and all 435 House Representatives
Keep calling your Senators today, toll free numbers include 1-877-851-6437 and 1-866-220-0044, or call toll 1-202-225-3121 AND REGISTER YOU'RE OUTRAGE at ongoing efforts to take guns away!
CALL PRESIDENT OBAMA, 202-456-1111 and 202-456-1414 expressing your disdain and ABSOLUTE REJECTION of all GUN BANS.
DO NOT BE SILENCED – MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!
NOTE: We need TENS OF THOUSANDS of faxes and PHONE CALLS and EMAILS delivered to ALL Senators and Representives right away!
For our projects to be successful, we must count on the voluntary financial support from individuals like you who care.
Your contribution of $20 or $25 is urgently needed today.
Your donation for just $10 will help so much. If you can afford to send $50 or $100 or more it would truly be a godsend.
Remember, protecting our freedom is not inexpensive.
But then, it's impossible to put a price tag on freedom.
Select Here NOW Send Your Most Generous Donation
Together, we can preserve the Constitutional rights our Founding Fathers intended our people to have forever.
For more information about CCRKBA go to [Click Here]
Thank you. I know I can count on you.
Sincerely,
Alan Gottlieb
Chairman
Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
If you prefer to donate by check, please mail to:
The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
12500 NE Tenth Place
Dept Code 2147
Bellevue, Washington 98004
P.S. Take the Emergency Gun Survey let us know where you stand.
Did you know that since Barack Obama was elected President 3 people make a donation to an anti-gun group every minute?
That's almost a million and a half contributions aimed at you - and your gun rights every year!
With Obama in the White House and anti-gunners in control of key committees in Congress, the gun grabbers are out for blood.
Select Here NOW I urgently need you to fill out the EMERGENCY GUN RIGHTS SURVEY registered in your name.
We at the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms have launched this new nationwide campaign to rally gun owners and freedom loving Americans behind an effort to protect our constitutional rights.
THIS IS IMPORTANT. EVEN IF YOU DON'T WISH TO ANSWER YOUR SURVEY, OR ARE UNDECIDED ABOUT SOME QUESTIONS,
PLEASE FILL IT OUT TODAY by SELECTING HERE.
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"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged". President Abraham Lincoln
"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism." Karl Marx, 1867, Das Kapital
“A nation can be no stronger abroad than she is at home. Only an America which practices what it preaches about equal rights and social justice will be respected by those whose choice affects our future” - John F. Kennedy (undelivered address, Dallas TX, Nov. 22 1963)
Gen. George S. Patton in the Oscar-winning film bearing his name: "I don't want to get any messages saying that we are holding our position. We're not holding anything. Let (the jihadists) do that. We are advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding onto anything except the enemy. We're going to hold onto him by the nose and we're gonna kick him in the ass. We're going to kick the hell out of him all the time and we're gonna go through him like crap through a goose."
Select Here to Reject Gun Bans and Fax to all 100 Senators and all 435 House Representatives
[Click Here]
Select Here NOW Send Your Most Generous Donation
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Mar 06 2009, 06:26AM
good post Bill's grandson.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 09 2009, 07:05AM
in case you were wondering about the black SUV's that follow the president around this video has been making the rounds not sure if any are actualy deployed or not (3,000 rounds per minute)
It would be hard to think of an incident where this would be the right idea onshore, but I guess it is better to have it and not need it. Then to need it and not have it
I wonder what up angle it could fire?
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
stetson creek r, Mon Mar 09 2009, 07:44AM
Yes, Americans should be allowed to own guns, and should be schooled in gun safety.
For those who hate guns, be aware that you are safer because your neighbors own guns. The bad guys never know who owns guns, and who doesn't. He may be breaking into your house, where there is no defense, or he may be breaking into my house, where he will be properly dispatched with hot lead!
However if you feel strongly enough about your views, please post a sign in your yard that says, "This is a gun free home"!
Re: Gun ownership
mtngram, Tue Mar 10 2009, 06:02PM
I am for gun ownership by the non-criminal American.
However; recently I have been thinking that perhaps some type of written test, or mental test should be required. After all, you are required to have a driver's test ever so often. What started me thinking about that is the fact that there is a blind woman in Sugarloaf that owns a gun. Now that IS scary!:D
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Mar 10 2009, 06:25PM
The problem with that is, who decides what the questions are? There are plenty of rules now to take guns away from convicted felons. They have tried to pass limitations against people who suffer from mental problems. Which would prevent many veterans from owning guns because they suffer from PTSD.
I see nothing wrong with everyone having to show they were trained to handle a weapon before they can buy. I would think every svericeman would be qualified by showing their DD214
My mother was in her 80's and had 2 45's I am not sure she knew where they were but it made her feel safer. And I'll bet nobody messes with the woman in sugarloaf.
To guarentee our rights we have to defend everyone's
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Mar 10 2009, 07:49PM
Like BG said, how would anyone be able to say that someone that has no health or mental problems is unqualified to own a gun, unless the have a Felony arrest and conviction. Any written test will only show knowledge, having them take a firearm class is a good idea, this way they could get the training needed to be a safe firearm owner.
But the education should go all the way down to our school kids, not to arm them but so that they would learn the skills to shoot and the saftey procedures when handling a gun. I learned on a .22 rifle when I was 8 or 9 years old.
I think on one of our shooting get togethers we should invite some kids along( with their parents) and show them the fun of shooting at targets and the skill needed to hit the damm things. :p at 50, or 100 yards, some of us have riifles that can reach out to almost 1000 yards and it takes a lot of skill to make a long shot like that. Me no problem..........I gave up on anything past 300 yards.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Mar 10 2009, 08:46PM
bkap
I think that is a great idea if you can find some parents who would allow it. Many think it is better to keep their kids from ever seeing a gun. And naturaly when they do they are curious with no respect for the responsability. I think most kids my age started out with BB guns. probably got shot a couple of times. By the time they graduated to 22's they had made their mistakes. of my age group everyone survived.
I think I was shooting hunting rifles before shooting much of anything else.
The Sportsmans club had gun training and many other functions. Chuck Thomas would supply meat from his Alaskan hunts for a great BBQ every year. they did a lot of good work. I don't even know if they are still up there
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Tue Mar 10 2009, 08:46PM
So when are we going shooting again? Grab a jacket peeps and lets go!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Tue Mar 10 2009, 09:18PM
I agree with both bkap and bg. I wish more parents would get their kids involved. I remember my gun/hunter safety training and shooting dads .22 or shotgun for the first time. What a feeling. Scary at first but many years later its my preferred hobby on the weekends. These days on weekends during the summer, its rare to see kids going to the range to shoot with dad or grandpa. Where are they? Who will carry on what we hold so dear? The kids. Take them out and teach them the right way. When and where is the 3rd annual shoot-a-thon? 
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 11 2009, 06:22AM
Oden, my daughter gets mad when I don't invite her along, but she is in collage and is always busy so I blame her for not wanting to hang with her old man.
dd, Yes we need Brad to get his semi-anual shoot and meet going. maybe for a Saturday this time?????
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Mar 11 2009, 06:52AM
Soon my friends, very soon. I even have a few new toys for us to play with (a black powder rifle and a "cap-n-ball" pistol, more 22s and a new CANNON). Gotta find some supplies for those here soon.
We'll be out there soon. The first event was on April 1st (but the weather was GREAT then). We'll do it soon and my family may even show up for this one.
Re: Gun ownership
OldJoe, Sun Mar 15 2009, 06:12AM
Via search I don't see that anyone mentioned
AB 357. will change the California law to compel Sheriff's departments to issue concealed carry permits as long as the person applying meets all legal requirements.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 15 2009, 08:36AM
welcome Oldjoe, That was discussed in another post and we are all for it, as a matter of fact the gun shop I go to has a petition there for all to sign to show support for it.
Re: Gun ownership
cricket, Sun Mar 15 2009, 10:06AM
To answer a question, a lot of the younger set already (sadly so) knows how to shoot and are pretty good at meeting target.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 16 2009, 09:45PM
more info on the 2009 gun ban.
Snopes has nothing of yet but there is a site that says it has the legislation.
Please review the posts at the link below. If accurate, this is very troubling but not totally unexpected news. I encourage my brotherin in law enforcement (current and former) to share this link with others, and to let your federal representatives and senators plus President Obama know how you feel, especially based on your law enforcement experiences. Letters to the editor are also a good avenue for sharing your views with the public at large. Remember, the previous "assault weapons ban" had more to do with how a firearm looked than its leathality, and the ban hampered even active members of law enforcement from making certain purchases, yet prosecutions under the ban were few and far between. Meanwhile, as our federal leaders may be moving toward further restricting the rights of the lawabiding, Michigan is preparing to release thousands of imprisoned felons back to our streets due to budgetary constraints. And since felons are already prohibited from owning or possessing firearms, any new bans are redundant for them
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Mar 17 2009, 08:02AM
Well Americans it has started and I do hope it is what gets those that supported BHO to take their support and come over to our side. I posted in the politics blog about this and we need to act now.
[Click Here]
This is just the first of many ways they are going to try and disarm us. Please write, call, or e-mail your state rep's and tell them how you feel.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 18 2009, 06:44AM
Nuff said
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed Mar 18 2009, 11:15AM
"Ya arm all your passengers." Hey, it works for me!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Mar 18 2009, 11:35AM
and the meathead just get it.
Archie had it about right, might be worth a try. glad I don't fly
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Mar 20 2009, 11:09PM
the only chance we have to stop all the abuse that is going on is to speak up.
If today it is not your particular ox that is being gored, tomorrow it might be. The only chance we have is to support each other and respobd to any abuse you find
From: me
Subject: Re: Feds undercut civilian supply of ammunition. Policy leaves manufacturers without brass for cartridges
Thanks Dave for the speedy message.... one down, how many more?? I think they are getting the message... I love it now that the Dems are fighting amongst themselves.... that helps.... Dave, there are a lot of good folks at [Click Here] in case you didn't know.... we still have Holt's Bill and the importing of ammo.... any more I am missing....
Mel
At 3/18/2009 Wednesday 02:08 AM, you wrote:
Remember Obama said he wouldn't go after our guns? Well ""THAT'S A DAMN LIE"".
[Click Here]
I have been watching this. the last few days. Well there was such an uproar from American gun owners
the DOD has reversed it policy as of 4:30 pm 03-17-2009 but I ask you; why was it done in the first place?
[Click Here]
Dear Loyal Customers,
Thanks to your voice, DOD has rescinded the order to mutilate all spent cases as of 4:30 pm on 3/17/09. We appreciate the time and effort that you expended, together we all made a difference. We will be posting the email we received from DOD as well as any additional information within the next 12-16 hours. Thanks so much and lets get to work!!! Georgia Arms
Yes they think the enemy is guns and ammo. Eliminate the guns and ammo and peace, love, dove. This Marine swore an oath to the US Constitution and I'll die protecting said and Bill of Rights, 2nd Amendment RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS against government tyranny.
They call us Bubba. We Bubbas call it Jefferson & Adam's 2nd Amendment. Our Oath and Duty.
Semper Fi
--
Patriot Act 2
Attach to all the emails you send.
WARNING: Due to Presidential Executive Orders the National Security
Agency (NSA) may have read this email without probable cause, warrant or
notice. And now the government is permitted to listen to you via your own
cell phone even when it is turned off. Under executive Orders to the NSA,
and US District Court rulings for the FBI, either agency may do this
without any judicial or legislative review or oversight.
--Yes 4th Amendment
gone.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 21 2009, 10:02AM
Nice to see that we can stand together and get somethings changed back.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 30 2009, 10:35AM
this came in a kind of a joke email.
has anyone seen anything like this or know what it could be if real?
I have no idea what it is or what it does ...... but I want one
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 30 2009, 10:38AM
WW2 machine gun for anti-tank maybe 30cal.?
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Mar 30 2009, 10:48AM
Ear Ringer!
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Mar 30 2009, 11:17AM
Yes, our military has one mounted on the front of a vehicle...
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Apr 06 2009, 04:21PM
Must Watch the "20/20" special on "If I Only Had a Gun" Friday at 10 p.m. ET
How people are reacting to all the mass shootings that are in the news. Tell your friends and family.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Mon Apr 06 2009, 05:16PM
The longest thread in SCM history most likely, is about guns. I love Big Bear.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Apr 06 2009, 05:25PM
who didn't see this coming.
I have been expecting that with the economy and all the other pressures there would be more such incidents.
It is a bad time with a sitting president and congress who would like nothing more then a a chance to disarm the citizens.
I understand they arrested a muslim who was going to make an attempt on obama while oversees. He had a press pass but had planned on using a knife. IThey will probably go after the first and second at the same time.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Apr 09 2009, 06:31AM
Not really a fan of Ann's but this is a good article.
[Click Here]
(also posted in politics)
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Apr 09 2009, 10:54AM
Re: Gun ownership
Jen&Shady, Thu Apr 09 2009, 11:03AM
Did someone say cannon?
Re: Gun ownership
Frigg, Thu Apr 09 2009, 11:04AM
Yes, I don't see that there is an issue with owning a gun or several if you are a responsible person.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Apr 09 2009, 01:10PM
Jen, my darlling!!
Big BAAABOOOOM!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Apr 09 2009, 02:01PM
ted_nugent.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Apr 09 2009, 04:11PM
Bills Grandson, +100000000
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu May 14 2009, 06:17PM
had to dust off this thread to post this offer for all of us who can't afford our NRA membership but would like to help the cause
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Fri May 15 2009, 09:06AM
I love Ted and his views. I have a friend that dated him. Cool guy!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri May 15 2009, 09:39AM
I just picked up a 22 conversion for one of my guns to make shooting cheeper, I'm ready to rock n roll!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri May 15 2009, 09:41AM
but you need to be able increase the noise and kick to get the expierence.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun May 17 2009, 08:08AM
Getting better on the trigger pull is a BIG help BG. also just plane fun!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon May 18 2009, 09:29AM
good stuff
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon May 18 2009, 09:42AM
good one BG!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed May 20 2009, 01:27PM
ONE STEP FORWARD;
House passes measure expanding gun rights
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Gun rights advocates found an unlikely ally in the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives on Wednesday as lawmakers passed a measure allowing concealed, loaded firearms to be carried in national parks.
The proposal passed 279-147, winning overwhelming Republican support and that of a significant number of more conservative rural and western Democrats.
The Senate voted 67-29 on Tuesday to attach an identical measure to a bill cracking down on credit card fees. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, was among 27 Democrats backing the measure.
Under the measure, any person with a state permit to carry a concealed weapon would be able to bring that weapon into parks and wildlife refuges unless a state law specifies otherwise.
rest of story here; [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 20 2009, 01:37PM
I kept looking for the but.... in there but never saw it.
Does that mean that since I don't have a concealed permit I will be able to take it in unconcealed? It really wont change anything for me because I carry it concealed untill I get out and put it on my belt
but sounds like a good step
Re: Gun ownership
Stringfellow, Wed May 20 2009, 01:40PM
BG, I think it says that it's only legal in the park if it's legal in the rest of the state that the park is in. If you are breaking state law by carrying it concealed without a permit, you would also be breaking the law in the park.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed May 20 2009, 01:45PM
What it means is if you have a valid CCW from your state of residents you can carry a concealed gun in to any FEDERAL park, unless that state has a law against it
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 20 2009, 01:47PM
thats why I was wondering if it were leagle to carry one unconcealed now.
There is no law against carrying it hidden in a case in your car as long as the ammo is in a seperate area like the trunk.
Actualy there is little that you can't do but it is always open to interpretation, and local ordanances are always around to cause a problem.
Putting a rifle in a gun rack, while being the most legal can cause the most ptoblems Too many little minds and grey areas anymore
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 20 2009, 01:52PM
While I would like the safety of a permit it kind of intereferes with the 2nd amenment. And gives them one more piece if paper to hold against you.
it's definetly a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't kind of thing. It was much nicer years ago when the cops knew you, and knew who should, and shouldn't have a gun around.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed May 20 2009, 03:12PM
Why bother, just go for the full concealed weapons permit, take it anywhere.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 20 2009, 03:21PM
I am in Riverside county now. I could have gotten one in San Bernardino but don't know how the new top cop feels about it. And I have never met him.
I also worry about the "red dawn" idea where the first thing that happens when they come for the guns is they see who is registered.
In my mind they don't have any right knowing what you have as long as it isn't machine guns, or hand grenades
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Sat May 23 2009, 11:00PM
Benny: A CCW does not allow you to take a firearm everywhere. BG: Some peoples toys are just bigger an faster then others. BSF
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Jul 05 2009, 09:22AM
Happy birthday America
now take this
Bill to Restrict Ammunition Sales Rescheduled for Next Week
Please Continue Contacting the Senate Public Safety Committee!
As we reported last week, Assembly Bill 962 was scheduled to be considered today by the Senate Public Safety Committee. The bill has been rescheduled and will be considered on Tuesday, July 7.
Sponsored by Assembly Member Kevin De Leon (D-45), AB962 would make it a crime to privately transfer more than 50 rounds of ammunition per month, even between family and friends, unless you are registered as a “handgun ammunition vendor” in the Department of Justice’s database. Ammunition retailers would have to be licensed and store ammunition in such a manner that it would be inaccessible to purchasers. The bill would also require purchasers submit to fingerprinting, which would be kept in dealers' records and subject to inspection by the Department of Justice. Lastly, mail order ammunition sales would be prohibited.
Please continue to contact the members of the Senate Public Safety Committee and respectfully urge them to oppose AB962. Contact information can be found below.
SENATE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE:
State Senator Mark Leno (D-3) – Chair
(916) 651-4003
senator.leno©senate.ca.gov
State Senator John J. Benoit (R-37) - Vice-Chair
(916) 651-4037
State Senator Gilbert Cedillo (D-22)
(916) 651-4022
State Senator Loni Hancock (D-9)
(916) 651-4009
State Senator Robert Huff (R-29)
(916) 651-4029
State Senator Darrell Steinberg (D-6)
(916) 651-4006
State Senator Roderick Wright (D-25)
(916) 651-4025
[Click Here]
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Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Jul 05 2009, 10:04AM
No such BS in OreGUN!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Jul 05 2009, 10:10AM
thats a long way to go to buy a brick of 22's
stupid California. We have got to seperate from the Northern half of the state
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Jul 05 2009, 10:14AM
Not for us OreGUN residents (in three weeks)!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Jul 05 2009, 10:21AM
Don't rub it in.
I hope you don't leave so cal. I can think of a few who would really miss you.
maybe Arizona will take in Southern Californis. Probably not they are smarter then that.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sun Jul 05 2009, 10:53AM
I just happened to look at articles in the Alaska State Constitution. They tweaked their equivalents to the 1st and 2nd ammendments ... so as to leave no lingering doubts!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Jul 05 2009, 11:22AM
Thanks. You have no idea how much that means to me. I'm going to REALLY miss my friends in town - I've been crying about it for a week.
But you'll still have me here (online) to kick around though.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jul 05 2009, 11:30AM
Yea but steel toed boots are better then steel toed words.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jul 07 2009, 01:26PM
AB692 a bill that limits you to purchasing 50 rounds a month was just in the Assembly and is now waiting for more members so they can vote, does not look good for us that like to punch holes in paper, or hunt as you need to practise in order to hit what you are aiming at.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jul 07 2009, 01:38PM
Well it passed now on to appropreations for funds, this means that as a law abiding citizen you will no longer be able to buy more then 50 rounds of ammo a month no matter what calibur, no more bulk packs of 22's no cheap ammo it will go way up if this is signed by our governer
Re: Gun ownership
Geezer, Tue Jul 07 2009, 01:40PM
Bkap, can you buy out of state???
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jul 07 2009, 01:46PM
At this time I do not think that was in the bill, so yes you could. ROADTRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
THIS HAS NOT PASSED YET
it just passed the public safety committee
it still has to pass appropriations, then the senate floor, and then not be vetoed by the gov.
If it does not make it out of app. by the 10th it dies there.
Re: Gun ownership
Geezer, Tue Jul 07 2009, 01:58PM
Well, if it passes, then it's another case of the State hurting small business owners. People will buy their ammo outta California!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Jul 07 2009, 03:19PM
from the NRA
includes a list of those to call or email to voice your opinion
Bill to Restrict Ammunition Sales Takes a Step Forward
Please Contact the Senate Appropriations Committee!
Earlier today, the Senate Public Safety Committee passed Assembly Bill 962. The bill now moves to the Senate Appropriations Committee for consideration. No hearing date has been scheduled.
AB962, sponsored by Assembly Member Kevin De Leon (D-45), would make it a crime to privately transfer more than 50 rounds of ammunition per month, even between family and friends, unless you are registered as a “handgun ammunition vendor” in the Department of Justice’s database. Ammunition retailers would have to be licensed and store ammunition in such a manner that it would be inaccessible to purchasers. The bill would also require purchasers submit to fingerprinting, which would be kept in dealers' records and subject to inspection by the Department of Justice. Lastly, mail order ammunition sales would be prohibited.
Please contact the members of the Senate Appropriations Committee TODAY and respectfully urge them to oppose AB962. Contact information can be found below.
SENATE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE:
State Senator Christine Kehoe (D-39), Chair
(916) 651-4039
State Senator Dave Cox (R-1), Vice-Chair
(916) 651-4001
State Senator Ellen Corbett (D-10)
(916) 651-4010
State Senator Jeff Denham (R-12)
(916) 651-4012
State Senator Mark DeSaulnier (D-7)
(916) 651-4007
State Senator Loni Hancock (D-9)
(916) 651-4009
State Senator Mark Leno (D-3)
(916) 651-4003
senator.leno©senate.ca.gov
State Senator Jenny Oropeza (D-28)
(916) 651-4028
State Senator George Runner (R-17)
(916) 651-4017
State Senator Mimi Walters (R-33)
(916) 651-4033
State Senator Lois Wolk (D-5)
(916) 651-4005
State Senator Mark Wyland (R-38)
(916) 651-4038
State Senator Leland Yee (D-8)
(916) 651-4008
[Click Here]
Write Your Representative
Write The Media
Get Involved Locally
Register To Vote
Contribute
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Jul 31 2009, 11:03PM
just got this and had to bring my favorite threads back again
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Jul 31 2009, 11:13PM
in the woeds of Sean Connery
they pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Aug 06 2009, 12:35PM
Ya this is old and may have been put on here before, but I could listen to this once a day and not get tired of it.
You tell 'em Ted!!
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Thu Aug 06 2009, 12:40PM
Unfortunately, with our newly appointed supreme court justice I fear this might soon be a thing of the past.
Time to go shopping...
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Thu Aug 06 2009, 01:51PM
Wow! You go TED!!!!!!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Thu Aug 06 2009, 06:49PM
Ditto on Ted! The next time someone asks me my opinion on the Second Amendment, I will just play this. Simple.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Aug 09 2009, 09:19AM
I guess this would be the best place to post this link to our new destroyer class. A tri hull that will outrun anything on the water. Built for close to the shore fighting. should be a very hard target to hit or even see on radar
[Click Here]
we also have a new bomb proof truck. well maybe not bomb proof but it protect the soldiers inside
mrapincident.pps
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Aug 09 2009, 09:57AM
as for the newest Supreme court appointee, she does not change the make up on the bench, she is just replacing one that voted againest the 2nd A so no change, now as to how she feels about other items that will come up it's all in the air.
She never once said in her confirmation hearing anything concrete so there is no way to nail her down .
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sun Aug 09 2009, 09:58AM
I still can't decide between .338 Lapua and .338 RUM.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Aug 09 2009, 10:32AM
I think this will be my next weapon for home defense
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Aug 09 2009, 11:28AM
BG, thats not leagle in Ca.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Aug 09 2009, 12:34PM
why not?
It dosen't even have a magazine?
plus I don't think I would want to be the guy to tell someone they can't have one
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Aug 09 2009, 12:38PM
Uhh...nothing is legal in California. But I think that one is cool in OreGUN!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Aug 09 2009, 12:42PM
quit rubbing it in Luna
remember 85% of people from Big Bear who go to Oregon come back within 4 years (I made that number up. but it is not far off)
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sun Aug 09 2009, 06:05PM
My aunt and uncle moved to Sequim. When they tried to move back they were told, "Sorry, you left. Go to Phoenix."
Re: Gun ownership
Lumber Jill, Sun Aug 09 2009, 06:14PM
The state bird of OR is the mosquito. and i think they're ATTRACTED to bug spray!
Re: Gun ownership
Gunaria, Mon Aug 10 2009, 10:13PM
Both are very expensive rounds and need a good scope and long distances to see what it can really do.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Aug 12 2009, 06:57AM
So the question is, "why can't they remove him now"
My answer is " He has permission and is not breaking the law"
and his answer with a "reporter that is antagonistic"
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed Aug 12 2009, 10:51AM
Does anyone have a 410 shotgun they would like to sell?????
Please email me with info: rodbunn©yahoo.com
Thanks, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Aug 12 2009, 12:46PM
Obama stacked the audience with his people. There was little protest inside compared to every other town hall.
how can you call it a town hall meeting when you don't allow the town?
I think the guy needed the gun to protect himself from all the news people.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Aug 13 2009, 06:49AM
I know we have talked about this before and many think it was a failed bill from last uear but aparently they are trying to sneak it through again.
we should let our representatives know (as Ted nuggent said)
the 2nd amendment is the only right to own and carry permit we need.
TRUE according to snopes -- snopes.com: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act
YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN HERE!
WELL, HERE IT COMES!!!!
HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009
P lease send this to everybody on your list... this is Obama guncontrol by secrecy.
Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House.
This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.
We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under the radar..
To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.
Basically this "little" piece of legislation would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
.It is registered
.You are fingerprinted
.You supply a current Driver's License
.You supply your Social Security #
.You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
.Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25
- Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.
There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Guns must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.
The Government would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.
If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this..
[Click Here]
It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along.
FAILURE TO DO SO AT YOUR PERIL!
Any hunters in your family - pass this along.
Peter Boyles is on this and having guests. Listen to him on KHOW 630 a.m. in the morning.
He suggests the best way to fight this is to tell all your friends about it and "spring into action".
Also he suggests we all join a pro-gun group like the Colorado Rifle Association, hunting associations, gun clubs JPFO (JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP) and especially the GOA and NRA..
This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it.
YOU MAY NOT OWN OR EVEN LIKE GUNS, but if you LOVE FREEDOM, YOU better get involved NOW!!!
TOMORROW YOU MAY NOT HAVE AN OPTION.
This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.
The Second Amendment ... . America's original homeland security
--------------------------------- ----------------------------------- ------------
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Fri Oct 09 2009, 02:35PM
Does anyone here know about how much I could get for my S&W Model 19 357mag, 4" revolver??? I'm thinking about getting something smaller. I've had the gun about 20 years. Any guess??? thanks, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Oct 09 2009, 03:46PM
do you have the orignal box and all the papers that it came with, that will raise the price about $50. but in good condition with a light turn ring it could go for around $350.-500.
Re: Gun ownership
Gunaria, Fri Oct 09 2009, 06:39PM
If you are still looking for a .410 shotgun, I'll trade you a couple of them for it.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Oct 18 2009, 05:55PM
as law abiding gun owners that I know you are you should have this sign on your safe to protect you from unreasonable search, so please print and post on your safe.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Nov 25 2009, 08:49PM
this should be good for another page or so
in Kentucky the families that play together stay together
family_day_in_kentucky.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Nov 30 2009, 10:47PM
and if that isn't enough
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Nov 30 2009, 11:31PM
That was just beautiful - a gathering of law abiding citizens.
To quote one of the comments:
"It's fun. And considering that the only way into this "club" is to pretty much have a clean criminal record, you're generally having fun with people who you don't have to worry about. I can leave our party tent, and several full coolers, a generator, and other items, all unattended when I go to the range for the day. And they'll all be there when I get back."
Glorious!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed Dec 02 2009, 12:31PM
Thanks, I ended up buying a 20ga Remmington 870 pump for now. It's a great shotgun for the money $299 at Big5.
Later, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed Dec 02 2009, 12:35PM
Thanks for the info ! No box or anything else. I would like to trade it for a 22 pistol of the same value if I could find one.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sat Dec 05 2009, 04:07PM
Hope this isn't a repost:
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Dec 05 2009, 05:31PM
A few years ago there was a state trying to get the same type of a program going. Has anyone heard how that went?
I see nothing wrong with everyone having to go through a basic training and having to keep a weapon. within reason of course
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Dec 07 2009, 10:34AM
This following story is a very good reason why we need to protect our 2nd A.
Women shoots and kills intruder, police 911 tape please listen to the whole tape.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Dec 07 2009, 11:45AM
that is very sad but it shows how long it can take to get help there in a dangerous situation.
I got this email today that has a similar outcome. I disagree with it in that I don't like to get these emails but it is bettter then what could have happened
BUTTE, MONTANA
Shotgun preteen vs. Illegal Mexican Home Invaders: Butte, Montana November 5, 2007
Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.
It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.
Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.
Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.
When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.
It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest.
Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and herself......against two murderous, illegal immigrants......and she wins,
She is still alive.
Now that is Gun Control !
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
I like this kind of e-mail. American citizens defending themselves and their homes.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Dec 07 2009, 12:21PM
Wow, that felt like an hour until "help" arrived. Excellent point Bruce and a sobering, sad tape.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Dec 07 2009, 12:55PM
The saying I hear a lot is " when you have seconds to act the police are minuets away".
And I'm not bashing the police when I repete that, it's a fact that they are not on every corner or everystreet in America, they have a lot to cover in their job and do the best they can, so if law-abiding citizens can help, no problem.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Dec 07 2009, 12:56PM
BG, sad story but good ending, all children in America should be taught to use a firearm in the proper way.
Re: Gun ownership
Stringfellow, Mon Dec 07 2009, 03:34PM
That email's been around a couple years... a little too cute to be true, but a nice anecdote to encourage proper training and use of guns.
///would love to watch a 9-year-old fire a 12-gauge nonetheless
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Dec 07 2009, 04:40PM
False per Snopes.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
MIKE, Mon Dec 07 2009, 05:46PM
I have been shooting guns since I was 7 and my first 12 gauge was at 10 years old. It kicked like hell but I shot a whole box that day. I shot a 10 and 8 gauge shotguns at 14 and that was what you would call kicks like a mule. Too bad that story is fake though, good things regarding kids are almost always fake.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Dec 08 2009, 03:43AM
Stringfellow
I was worried about that too and would not have posted it except with the previous post.
but it has happened, and happens almost daily.
a 12 gauge is not that bad once you have fired it the first time.
I wouldn't suggest it for the first shooting expierence
Saddest thing about the 911 call was if the cops could have been there sooner he would be alive today, but as it turned out she is alive today
you want to talk shotguns?
here is a few punt guns. used by market hunters. devestated the east coast flyways would bring down as many as 50 birds at a time. mounted on boats
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Dec 08 2009, 11:31AM
Ah the Swiss know what to do.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Tue Dec 08 2009, 12:35PM
The following is a great example of proper gun control:
Last week police were called to investigate an attempted armed robbery:
The 71-year-old retired Marine who opened fire on two robbers at a Plantation,FL, Subway shop late Wednesday, killing one and critically wounding the other, is described as John Lovell, a former helicopter pilot for two presidents. He doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, and he works out every day. Mr. Lovell was a man of action Wednesday night.
According to Plantation police, two masked gunmen came into the Subway at 1949 N. Pine Rd. just after 11 p.m. There was a lone diner, Mr. Lovell, who was finishing his meal. After robbing the cashier, the two men attempted to shove Mr. Lovell into a bathroom and rob him as well. They got his money, but then Mr. Lovell pulled his handgun and opened fire. He shot one of the thieves in the head and chest and the other in the head.
When police arrived, they found one of the men in the shop, K-9 Units found the other in the bushes of a nearby business. They also found cash strewn around the front of the sandwich shop according to Detective Robert Rettig of the Plantation Police Department.
Both men were taken to the Broward General Medical Center, where one, Donicio Arrindell, 22, of North Lauderdale died. The other, 21-year-old Frederick Gadson of Fort Lauderdale is in critical but stable condition.
A longtime friend of Lovell was not surprised to hear what happened. The friend said, ''He'd give you the shirt off his back, but he'd be mad as hell if someone tried to take the shirt off his back.''
Mr. Lovell was a pilot in the Marine Corps, flying former Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson..
He later worked as a pilot for Pan Am and Delta Airlines.
He is not expected to be charged authorities said. ''He was in fear for his life,'' Detective Rettig said, "These criminals ought to realize that most men in their 70's have military backgrounds and aren't intimidated by idiots."
Something tells me this old Marine wasn't 'in fear for his life', even though his life was definitely at risk. The only thing he could be charged with is participating in an unfair fight. One 71- year young Marine against two punks. Two head shots and one center body mass shot... Outstanding shooting! This is gun control! That'll teach them not to get between a Marine and his meal.
Florida law allows eligible citizens to carry a concealed weapon.
Don't you just love a story with a happy ending?
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Thu Dec 10 2009, 09:32AM
FYI, they just changed it today (FINALLY):
Target shooting is only allowed in designated sites - Areas with designated sites for target shooting
•Forest Road 1N09 East of Highway 330 - Open
•Forest Road 3N14 North of Highway 38 - Closed due to Butler 2 Fire
•Forest Road 2N02 East of Baldwin Lake Road - Open
•Forest Road 2N93 Lighting Gulch - Closed (Seasonal Winter road closure)
•Forest Road 5S07 North of Highway 74 - Open
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Dec 11 2009, 04:11PM
here is a new M-60 much improved
m-60new.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sat Dec 12 2009, 09:26AM
This should be standard issue to everyone who is willing to put one in their gun safe. Where do I get in line?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Dec 12 2009, 09:31AM
Yea one word, WANT.
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sat Dec 12 2009, 09:32AM
That would look mighty pretty mounted to the front of that new snow blower bkap!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Dec 12 2009, 09:56AM
, but wife read that and said, NO!
Nice thought, maybe just on the front of my truck for going up and down the hill?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Dec 12 2009, 10:05AM
does anyone know how many rounds the old ones could fire before swapping barrels?
I am sure it was nothing like this. gunners were told to fire 6-9 round bursts
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Dec 13 2009, 08:12PM
is this sweet? or what?
being stuck with only 5, 3 most times us guys can only envy having 12
how would you like to go up against this guy?
berettashotgun.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Dec 22 2009, 11:42AM
Re: Gun ownership
Stringfellow, Tue Dec 22 2009, 01:11PM
Cool video bkap, that guy went through my yearly wages in ammunition in 3 minutes though. And that's not counting the RPGs
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Dec 22 2009, 02:59PM
How cool is that?? I would stand right next to that guy and fire my own.
I think I might like country music?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Dec 28 2009, 05:55AM
this has got to be the best one yet. I could almost afford to go plinking with this one. To bad this one came after Christmas
would probably work well against them Wascally Wabbits too
and to think it starts with a mere M-16
[Click Here]
am15-1.wmv
am15-2.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Mon Dec 28 2009, 07:43AM
Did anybody mention the Governator having signed the new ammo purchase rules? Thumb prints? Are they idiots! Next election I'm voting for Attila the Hun!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Dec 28 2009, 05:06PM
Hey, that's neat! And then they also charge you an extra 9.75% "sales tax" or something, right? Right on!
Well, at least they greatly limit the firearms that you can have - so I guess that you needn't buy as much ammo, so it all works out, right?
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Dec 29 2009, 08:45AM
Hahhahahaha. That's awesome!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Dec 29 2009, 02:39PM
Thanks Benny!
But on the real news front here is something ALL Americans need read, this is from the mayor of NY city, you know the Billionaire that wants all guns out of the hands of the little people (US) and only law enforcment or Military to be armed.
Really read this and please remember this is one of the most important rights we have in this country the other most important one is freedom of speech which will be lost as soon as they can take away our guns, and if you don't believe that, well we will hopefully not get/go there.
thanks
[Click Here] Oh yea it is a long read so kick back and have at it.
This is the Plan; [Click Here]
I also suggest you go to the calguns.net site and read in the "2nd Amend. Politics and Laws" section, this is a font of info on everything 2A related. And also a great site on how, what, which one info for guns and laws about them.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Jan 06 2010, 07:38AM
just got this from the NRA
Right-to-Carry Bill Scheduled to be Heard Next Week!
Please Contact the Members of the Assembly Public Safety Committee Today!
Assembly Bill 357 is scheduled to be heard by the Assembly Committee on Public Safety on Tuesday, January 12.
AB357, sponsored by Assembly Member Steve Knight (R-36), would create a “shall issue” concealed handgun permit system in California. Under current law, an applicant must show cause as to why they should be issued a permit to carry a concealed handgun for self-defense. AB357 would remove that stipulation and require sheriffs to issue the license if all other mandated criteria are satisfied.
Please contact the members of the Assembly Committee on Public Safety TODAY and respectfully urge them to support AB357. Contact information can be found below.
Assembly Member Jose Solorio (D-69) - Chair
(916) 319-2069
Assemblymember.solorio©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Curt Hagman (R-60) - Vice Chair
(916) 319-2060
Assemblymember.Hagman©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Warren T. Furutani (D-55)
(916) 319-2055
Assemblymember.Furutani©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Danny D. Gilmore (R-30)
(916) 319-2030
Assemblymember.Gilmore©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Jerry Hill (D-19)
(916) 319-2019
Assemblymember.Hill©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Fiona Ma (D-12)
(916) 319-2012
Assemblymember.Ma©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Nancy Skinner (D-14)
(916) 319-2014
Assemblymember.Skinner©assembly.ca.gov
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Wed Jan 06 2010, 09:38AM
Did email ALL of them, thanks for posting.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jan 06 2010, 10:27AM
Ditto, always for our rights.
Re: Gun ownership
OldJoe, Wed Jan 06 2010, 06:11PM
I drafted my reply off line and pasted it in emails to each member of the committee. I noted the Orange County fiascos on the issue.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Mon Jan 11 2010, 02:47PM
Has anyone gone over to 2N02 (East of Baldwin Lake) to shoot? The forestry web site says that area is OPEN for shooting. I was wondering if it's passable this time of year and how far you have to drive in to get to a good shooting area??? Any help or info is appreciated.
Thanks,
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Mon Jan 11 2010, 02:59PM
Only tricky spot should be 'the puddle'. Or is the shooting area before you get there?
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Jan 11 2010, 04:16PM
That's where I go to shoot, but haven't been back, maybe will take a cruise tomorrow and report back!
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Mon Jan 11 2010, 05:02PM
So when is the next shooting day?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jan 12 2010, 06:34AM
lets set one! we need an outting, (yes MgJ can be therem )
Re: Gun ownership
Mtngoat John⭐, Tue Jan 12 2010, 06:38AM
Somehow I knew her question would result in that answer
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jan 12 2010, 06:47AM
and he's HOOKED! win win win!
A new shooter and wife have joined us.
Welcome aboared Mgj and Pinenut.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Jan 12 2010, 08:02AM
Some ice and mud on the road (2N02 ?)but not very deep. It is very bouncy though. The road down by the Mitsu plant is a little bit shorter and smoother (3N36?) Lets get together and do a friendly shooting event. I'll donate 500 rounds of .22 long towards a 50 and 100 yard competion.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Tue Jan 12 2010, 09:35AM
Just a quick comment on the Mitsu site. I went down there, for the first time, on a few saturdays ago. I was quite shocked to see how much CRAP people bring to shoot at. Computers, tv's, multitudes of glass, empty shells, etc. I really am surprised that the owner (if there is one) allows anyone to shoot there. I, for one, ALWAYS, pick up my stuff that I shoot at (plastic bottles, steel hubcaps, no glass, etc., as well as my shells. Am I the only one bugged by this? You may have well talked about this previously and if so, sorry.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jan 12 2010, 11:49AM
Mtman, no you're not. lets have a clean-up and shoot there.
Only thing is unfortunately it won't last long but will be nicer.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Tue Jan 12 2010, 12:20PM
cleanup? I think it would take about 3 dump trucks, no?
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Thu Jan 14 2010, 05:29PM
Can I throw clay targets at the place off of the Mitsubishi Plant??? Does anyone know where I can go (I'm talking for free) and throw targets (and hit some of them :-)
It didn't look to me that there was room to throw targets on 2n02 e. of Baldwin???? Anyone know????
Thanks, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Jan 15 2010, 06:04AM
Rod yes, this place is large,
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Jan 15 2010, 11:23AM
My next .22 rifle?
am15-1.wmv
am15-2.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Fri Jan 15 2010, 01:15PM
Going to go to the Mitsubishi plant shooting area tomorrow around 1 or 2 pm. Maybe I'll see some of the So Cal people there???
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Jan 15 2010, 04:38PM
not this weekend Rod I'm doing a quick turn around.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Jan 19 2010, 09:35PM
this one is kinda cool wait untill you see the results after you vote
Obama's new Attorney General, Eric Holder, has already said this is one of his major issues.
This takes literally 2 clicks to complete. Please vote on this gun issue question with USA Today. It will only take a few seconds of your time. Then pass the link on to all the pro gun folks you know. Hopefully these results will be published later this month. This upcoming year will become critical for gun owners with the Supreme Court's accepting the District of Columbia case against the right for individuals to bear arms.
Here's what you need to do:
First - vote on this one.
Second - launch it to other folks and have THEM vote - then we will see if the results get published.
The Question is:
"Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?"
Click on the link below and PLEASE vote Yes!
USATODAY.com - Quick Question
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jan 20 2010, 06:04AM
what link?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Jan 20 2010, 09:17AM
try this it didn't come with it for some reasoin sorry
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Wed Jan 20 2010, 09:44AM
97% YES !!!!!
Looks like alot of people are pro 2A
God Bless America
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Jan 20 2010, 10:05AM
makes you kind of wonder where the anti second are and how many there really are
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Jan 20 2010, 11:58AM
Done (YES).
5.4 Million total votes and 97% YES.
What does that say DC and CA. Stop the criminals from owning guns and leave us with some form of protection.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Jan 30 2010, 07:21AM
very good points.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Jan 30 2010, 02:53PM
your personal fire arm is your last line of defense. Often your only one.
A 911 call may catch your killer, but it is of little effect in defending you when seconds, or even minutes count.
And the number of guns in the hands of citizens prevents government from over stepping their bounds. more then they already have.
It is almost a fourth branch of government to have armed citizens
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Jan 30 2010, 02:59PM
Well, Well, Well…..
Gotta love this one. National media kept it under raps.
Only short article in local rag. Hyperlink enclosed.
This happened on AUGUST 24, 2009. Too slow in getting around as far as I'm concerned.
Anti-Gun Senator Shoots Intruder
[Click Here]
Long time Anti-Gun Advocate State Senator R.C. Soles, 74, shot one of two intruders at his home just outside Tabor City, N.C. About 5 p.m. Sunday, the prosecutor for the politician's home county said.
The victim, Kyle Blackburn, was taken to a South Carolina hospital, but the injuries were not reported to be life-threatening, according to Rex Gore, district attorney for Columbus, Bladen and Brunswick counties..
The State Bureau of Investigation and Columbus County Sheriff's Department are investigating the shooting, Gore said. Soles, who was not arrested, declined to discuss the incident Sunday evening.
"I am not in a position to talk to you," Soles said by telephone. "I'm right in the middle of an investigation."
Soles, a top-ranking Democrat and the longest-serving member of the legislature, already was the subject of an SBI investigation over sexual misconduct allegations with former male clients. (FHW - Now, that sounds more like a liberal to me).
The Senator, who has made a career of being against gun ownership for the general public, didn't hesitate to defend himself with his own gun when he believed he was in immediate danger and he was the victim.
In typical hypocritical liberal fashion, the "Do As I Say And Not As I Do" Anti-Gun Activist Lawmaker picked up his gun and took action in what apparently was a self-defense shooting. Why hypocritical you may ask? It is because his long legislative record shows that the actions that he took to protect his family, his own response to a dangerous life threatening situation, are actions that he feels ordinary citizens should not have if they were faced with an identical situation.
It has prompted some to ask if the Senator believes his life and personal safety is more valuable than yours or mine. But, this is to be expected from those who believe they can run our lives, raise our kids, and protect our families better than we can
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sat Jan 30 2010, 09:30PM
Plus, it appears his shooting skills are sorely lacking (only hit one, and the other's wound "not life threatening"). Eh, maybe that's just me.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 09 2010, 06:22AM
[Click Here]
Riverside County Sheriff Supports Repeal of AB962!
Sheriff Stan Sniff has officially come out in support of AB1663.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Feb 09 2010, 07:15AM
Didn't know where to post this picture so I figured the gun nut thread was the place. We went shooting down by the mitsu plant and found almost all of the empty shot gun shells standing on end. At first we thought that some desert tweakers had nothing better to do but there were way to many shells for that to have happened. I figured that after the last storm there were puddles that floated the shells then dried up. Not complaining cause we used them as targets. Don't worry there are plenty left.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 09 2010, 11:05AM
colorfull!
but why did you leave them?
We reall need to do a cleanup here, just getting more people involved would be nice.
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Tue Feb 09 2010, 12:37PM
When the weather turns better I will be in for the cleanup.
Re: Gun ownership
Craig ⭐, Tue Feb 09 2010, 12:41PM
Lets hope that happens soon Oden!
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue Feb 09 2010, 03:38PM
Another homeowner protects his property.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 11 2010, 11:23AM
I thought this would put a smile on some of your faces. It certainly did mine.
Still don't know how they got pics of Bkap's gun safe??
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 11 2010, 11:24AM
more
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Mon Feb 22 2010, 03:24PM
Visitors now can pack heat in any national park, provided they comply with the firearms laws of the park’s home state.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 22 2010, 04:38PM
Ok first it was not my safe! really give me 100.00 and I'll prove it.
really I will.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 23 2010, 02:14PM
Ok this happened this morning around 9am, 100 rounds down range 15 yards, This piece of paper got me mad!
and to top it all off now I got to go clean my gun.
ah Hopps #9 a mans perfume
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 23 2010, 05:12PM
If girls only knew the power oh hoppe's number 9 we wouldn't stand a chance
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 23 2010, 05:42PM
you got that right BG!
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Tue Feb 23 2010, 08:06PM
My wife loves the smell of Hoppe's!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Tue Feb 23 2010, 08:37PM
Sweets 7.62 is a real charmer as well. Just don't get it on you.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Tue Mar 02 2010, 10:28AM
'nuff said.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Mar 05 2010, 06:38AM
The good thing is I don't need any of those signs. It seems everyone in my neighborhood is armed.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 06 2010, 05:39PM
got a new dress for my DW CBOB.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Mar 11 2010, 09:02AM
This has got to be the worse offense this idiotic administration has tried to impose on us to date.
Who was it that said they havent tried to grab our guns????
Dear Concerned American,
With willing one-world accomplices in Washington, D.C., gun-grabbers around the globe believe they have it made.
In fact, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton just announced the Obama Administration would be working hand in glove with the UN to pass a new “Small Arms Treaty.”
This is Congressman Paul Broun from Georgia.
I’m writing you to make sure American citizens are prepared to oppose this assault on our national sovereignty and right to keep and bear arms.
Disguised as legislation to help in the fight against “terrorism,” “insurgency” and “international crime syndicates,” the UN’s Small Arms Treaty is nothing more than a massive, GLOBAL gun control scheme.
Ultimately, the UN’s Small Arms Treaty is designed to register, ban and CONFISCATE firearms owned by private citizens like YOU.
The National Association for Gun Rights has a Firearms Sovereignty Survey ready for you to complete, but I want you to understand just how dangerous this global gun ban is. Please bear with me for a moment.
So far, the gun-grabbers have successfully kept the exact wording of their new scheme under wraps.
But looking at previous versions of the UN’s Small Arms Treaty, you and I can get a good idea of what’s likely in the works.
If passed by the UN and ratified by the U.S. Senate, the UN’s Small Arms Treaty would almost certainly FORCE national governments to:
*** Enact tougher licensing requirements, making law-abiding citizens cut through even more bureaucratic red tape just to own a firearm legally;
*** CONFISCATE and DESTROY ALL “unauthorized” civilian firearms (all firearms owned by the government are excluded, of course);
*** BAN the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons;
*** Create an INTERNATIONAL gun registry, setting the stage for full-scale gun CONFISCATION.
I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that this is NOT a fight we can afford to lose.
Ever since its founding almost 65 years ago, the United Nations has been hell-bent on bringing the United States to its knees.
To the petty dictators and one-worlders who control the UN, the U.S. isn’t a “shining city on a hill” -- it’s an affront to their grand totalitarian designs for the globe.
These anti-gun globalists know that so long as Americans remain free to make our own decisions without being bossed around by big government bureaucrats, they’ll NEVER be able to seize the worldwide oppressive power they crave.
And the UN’s apologists also know the most effective way to finally strip you and me of ALL our freedoms would be to DESTROY our gun rights.
That’s why I’ve decided to stand with the National Association for Gun Rights in their opposition to this assault on our Constitution!
The truth is, there’s no time to waste.
You and I have to be prepared for this fight to move FAST.
The fact is, the last thing the gun-grabbers at the UN and in Washington, D.C., want is for you and me to have time to react and mobilize gun owners to defeat this radical legislation.
They’ve made that mistake before, and we’ve made them pay, defeating EVERY attempt to ram the “Treaty on Small Arms” into law since the mid-1990s.
But this time, time won’t be on our side.
In fact, we’re likely to only have a few days or weeks to defeat the treaty.
Worse, there’s no longer a pro-gun Senate to kill ratification of the treaty.
There’s no longer a President in the White House who has stated opposition to the treaty.
And you and I know good and well how Germany, Great Britain, France, Communist China or the rest of the anti-gun members of the United Nations are going to vote.
So our ONE AND ONLY CHANCE of stopping the UN’s Small Arms Treaty is during the ratification process in the U.S. Senate.
As you know, it takes 67 Senate votes to ratify a treaty.
So rounding up 34 votes to kill this thing should be easy, right?
Unfortunately, that couldn’t be further from the truth.
First, you know just as well as I do how few Senators are truly “pro-gun.”
Second, even with the partisan rancor in Washington, D.C., many Senators get “queasy” about killing treaties for fear of “embarrassing” the President -- especially with “international prestige” at stake.
They look at ratifying treaties much like approving Presidents’ Supreme Court nominees.
And remember how many Senators turned their back on us and voted to confirm anti-gun Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor?
A dozen more only voted against Sotomayor after receiving massive grassroots pressure from the folks back home.
So if we’re going to defeat the UN’s Small Arms Treaty we have to turn the heat up on the U.S. Senate now before it’s too late!
Do you believe the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Second Amendment are the supreme law of the land?
Do you believe any attempt by the United Nations to subvert or supersede your Constitutional rights must be opposed?
If you said “Yes” to these questions, please sign the survey the National Association for Gun Rights has prepared for you.
Your survey will put you squarely on the record AGAINST the UN’s Small Arms Treaty.
Along with your signed survey, I hope you’ll send a generous contribution of $250, $100, $50 or $35 to help finance this battle.
With your generous contribution, the National Association for Gun Rights will immediately begin contacting Second Amendment supporters to turn up the heat on targeted U.S. Senators.
Direct mail. Phones. E-mail. Blogs. Billboards. Guest editorials. Press conferences. Hard-hitting newspaper, radio and TV ads. The whole nine yards.
Of course, if NAGR can raise enough resources, their goal is to expand this full program to ALL of their target states.
But that’s not going to be cheap, and we may not have much time.
In fact, if we’re going to defeat the UN’s so-called “Small Arms Treaty,” we have to start NOW!
So please put yourself on record AGAINST the UN’s “Small Arms Treaty” by signing NAGR’s Firearms Sovereignty Survey.
And if you possibly can, please agree to make a contribution of $250, $100, $50 or $35.
Every dollar counts in this fight.
Thank you in advance for contributing you time and money towards defending our Second Amendment rights.
For Freedom,
Dr. Paul Broun, M.D.
U.S. Congressman (R-GA)
P.S. The Obama Administration just announced they would be working hand in glove with the UN to pass a new GLOBAL, “Small Arms Treaty.”
That’s why its vital you and I fight back IMMEDIATELY.
Please return your Firearms Sovereignty Survey and put yourself squarely on the record AGAINST ratification of the UN’s Small Arms Treaty.
And if you can, please make a generous contribution of $250, $100, $50 or $35 right away!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Mar 14 2010, 08:06AM
I wonder how many of us "law abiding" citizens will give up our firearms if the government decides to criminalize their possession?
For some reason, I suspect that there would be a huge rise in home burglaries and the theft of firearms if that should happen.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 14 2010, 08:10AM
I use to have guns but there was a terrible boating accdent.. it was on the news, I'll post a picture later.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Mar 14 2010, 09:15AM
Bruce's dog ate all my guns. I don't have them any longer.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sun Mar 14 2010, 01:33PM
Sometime check out the marketplace 'gun makers' in third world countries. I've always been amazed at what they accomplish with simple tools. A friend once said that as long as he has his basic machine tools, he'll not be disarmed.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Mar 14 2010, 04:26PM
The number of tragic boating accidents is astounding. I even lost a few firearms that I hadn't even purchased yet.
Now THAT is tragic...
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Mar 14 2010, 04:29PM
Looking very, very nice. You had better send it here, it doesn't appear to be on the California Legal List.
Nobody will see it as I can carry concealed here...
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 14 2010, 05:12PM
Here's the news story it was on TV after it happened...... bummer.
I was in NY visiting and well
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 14 2010, 05:29PM
Bwhahahaha it is!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Mar 14 2010, 06:58PM
Nancy got pissed at Bro'Bama and refused to work on that stinkin' "WealthCare" bill for another weekend, the revised gun list should be online by morning.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 15 2010, 09:41AM
What If Guns Were Treated Like Cars
1. You could get a simple license from the State for a nominal fee and only have to take a test that any idiot could pass. You'd only have to renew it every 10 years for 40 years and maybe retake the test if you move out of state.
2. You could kill and injure people with your gun while drunk and still have your lawyer get your gun back because you need it for work.
3. You'd have half the tax burden of the county and State dedicated to improving the shooting ranges and facilities. The public agrees this is never good enough to suit them and with all the gun owners from California moving in, the range capacity will never catch up. Lines at the range are always shown on TV with the newsies deploring the crowding.
4. You could carry in any State at any time because carry and possession of your
gun is honored nationwide and is considered a basic American civil right.
5. You would see commercials on TV pushing the newest, latest guns which you could lease for just $25 per month subject to the fine print.
6. You could finance a fancier gun than you can really afford by taking a 5 year loan with approved credit.
7. You would have a gun safe built into every house. In the upscale houses you would have 3 gun safes. Inexpensive houses and mobile homes would just have a gun rack by the door.
8. You'd have gun storage lockers at the shopping mall in which to store your rifle while shopping. This in order to free your arms for packages. The convenience of the shopper is paramount.
9. You could buy ammunition at the 7-11. Full-service station means they'll reload your magazines for you.
10. The news would stop reporting gun accidents unless more than 10 children were killed at one time. Onesy-twosey would only be notable in small towns or if Princess Di's bodyguard shot her while aiming at paparazzi.
11. If the price of ammunition rose 20% the Federal Government would release war reserves of ammo to bring the price back down to the consumer's comfort level. Ammo would carry a 50% tax to finance public shooting ranges. Teapot Dome scandal would have been about a lead mine.
12. We'd teach gunsmithing in vocational-education programs.
13. Every 16 year old would be looking forward to the day when he could take the family revolver to school. The rich kids would get a high-capacity semi-auto pistol on their 16th birthday and endanger everyone when they learn to use it in public.
14. High schools would have large gun lockers to store student's arms while they attend classes. Administrators would try to charge for the service to discourage teen-age gun carrying to school.
15. Schools would have shooter's education classes to make sure the kids could pass the test. They would show gory films of gunshot wounds. The squeamish would throw up.
16. Old people who can hardly see would still be permitted to shoot in public because to disarm them would be to damage their self-esteem. Families would wring their hands over holes in the walls and ceiling. Occasionally an oldster would fire into a schoolyard when they mistake the trigger for the safety. Legislators would refrain from criticizing because of the AARP's influence.
17. Congress would be debating alternative weapons systems for people who can't afford their own guns.
18. There would be such a thing as "public weapons" for the masses.
19. Congress would be subsidizing weapons for people too limited in means to afford their own.
20. Congress would be willing to float a loan to Colt's in order to ensure the survival of an American company against unfair foreign competition. (Think "Chrysler")
21. We, except for Ralph Nader, would dismiss 40,000 deaths and 500,000 injuries per year as "the price of freedom."
22. You would have MADS. Mothers Against Drunk Shooters (instead of HCI). MADS would conduct a campaign of public education instead of trying to use the force of government to prohibit irresponsible drinking and shooting.
23. You could rent a gun at any airport if you are over 25 and have a credit card.
24. You would have the fringe-greenies advocating bows and arrows because they think gunsmoke is damaging the environment. Al Gore would write a book about the damaging effects of gunsmoke. Al Gore would also claim to have been a handloader before his sister died in a powder fire.
25. You'd have huge outcry in the Press and Congress over our dependence on cheap, imported, foreign ammunition.
26. Ted Kennedy would have shot Mary Jo Kopekne instead. Ted would be a few thousand dollars richer (bullet:$0.25 vs car:$3000) Ted would stop carrying his own gun and instead, hire bodyguards to carry fully-automatic weapons under their coats for him.
27. You'd have businesses like "Jiffy Gun-Clean" to make life convenient. But you'd always worry that they might not have gotten the magazine fully seated afterwards.
28. You'd have "Classic Gun Events" with parades on public roads as everyone with such a classic carries it for all the public to see.
29. You'd have huge eyesores where piles of guns are left to rust in the open at "Gun Junk Yards". They would charge you outrageous prices to go out back and pick off a hammer or sear which is probably also worn out like the one you want to replace.
30. There would be a booming business and debate about substituting non-OEM parts in the gun repair business.
31. You'd have TV news crews going under cover with hidden cameras to ferret out "unscrupulous gun smiths." This story would be "old reliable" and works every year.
32. The Japanese would be trying, and succeeding at taking over the market for efficient, reliable high-quality guns. The Koreans would be trying to sneak in at the low end of the market. The Germans would be selling premium brands based on better workmanship, longer life, and brand cachet. But their guns would require you to take it to a gunsmith every 3 months for a complete tear-down and dimensional inspection at outrageous labor rates. The Italians would paint their guns flaming red and they would have a reputation for being finicky. The State Department would be applying pressure to get Japan to allow more US-built guns into their country. The Japanese would resist the US by saying that Japanese shooters have extra-special safety requirements that only Japanese manufacturers can meet.
33. You'd have an entire section of the Saturday Coloradoan devoted to ads for new and used guns.
34. You'd have a pair of fun-loving gunsmiths on Public Radio doing a show on gun problems. They'd be named "Tap & Rack"
35. There would have been a terrible TV show back in the black & white days named "My Mother - The Gun" It starred Jerry Van Dyke and ran just one season.
36. Dean Jones would have made a series of stupid movies starring Herbie the Love-Gun. Herbie was an adorable anthropomorphized cheap German Saturday Night Special. Dean Jones would never show his face in public again after these movies.
37. Competition would be carried on TV all day on Saturdays. The Daytona 500 would be round-count instead of miles. There would be speed contests, endurance contests, and off-range marksmanship events. NASGUN would create big heroes in the South and extravagant marketing opportunities.
38. High-schools would paint up a gun in the colors of the opposition and charge $.25 for you to swing a sledge hammer at that gun during pep rallys.
39. John Elway would own half the gunstores in the Denver Metro area.
40. Wellington Webb's wife would be carrying the finest English Double shotgun money can buy while Wellington has body guards to carry his semi-auto pistols for him.
41. Back in the 1970's during the ammo crisis, Congress would have set a maximum cyclic rate for autos and semi autos in order to conserve ammo.
42. After Iraq was pushed out of Kuwait, the national cyclic rate was raised to something all semi-autos can be comfortable with.
43. The Coloradoan would be publishing the locations of range repair work every week to be sure no one would be inconvenienced.
44. The Beachboys would have released some songs about guns: "Spring little Cobray gettin' ready to strike..... Spring little Cobray with all your might....." "She's real fine my Wonder Nine, she's real fine my Won-der Nine." " Fun, fun, fun 'til Daddy takes her Kel-Tec away......"
45. Letters to editors would be written decrying that all those Soccer Moms are lugging .50 cal machine guns around town, wasting ammo and getting in everybody's way.
46. Letters to editors would be written responding that putting one's beginning driver son or daughter behind a .50 cal would mean that the writer's offspring would survive any conflict with lesser armed individuals.
47. Al Gore would claim he invented the .50cal cartridge and say he was sorry.
48. Cities would be experimenting with electric guns but would be surprised to find that people would step in front of them at the range because they were too quiet so no one knew the electric gun was there.
49. President Clinton would demand that electric gun manufacturers put a cowbell on each one to prevent senseless accidents.
50. The National Rifle Association would be reduced to selling travel insurance for your guns because the rest of society will have seen to it that there would be no chance that firearms would ever be banned.
51. A Howa would go full auto (DESPITE THEY ARE BOLT ACTION!), and massive recall ensues. The Government Gun-Czar will do everything to cause public panic and so they will trade-in their Howas for a (now Government-owned) S&W or Colts. The CEO of Howa and Legacy will have to attend congressional hearings, and apologize for bolt guns going full-auto.
51a. Oh, did I mention someone would keep the trigger depressed and compulsively reloads while calling their spouse on his bluetooth headset, and cops will have to use the bullhorn to tell him that if you stop reloading and keep your finger off the trigger, the gun will cease to fire. All these will be followed by news helicopters and watched by the millions on CNN and/or Fox.
52. ....and if you come home drunk; you old lady would make you sleep outside on your gun.
53. Every gun would come with a government mandated silencer just like a car comes with a catalectic converter.
54. Every Thursday night, the local TV news would show hidden camera
footage from a gunshop, and the anchors would be backslapping giddy
over the ridiculous things the store clerk said.
55. You could still get Earl Sheib to refinish your guns for $69.95 (except for reds, they are $79.95) plus any necessary rust removal and the filling in of any scratches and dents??????????????
56. Bianchi Cup winner would be on the front page of the local newspaper.
57. Everyone would have a Cowboy Action Shooting handle.
58. Full auto guns would be charged an "Ammo Guzzler Tax".
59. You would be required to spend thousands of dollars annually on "Gun Insurance".
60. Carrying a 22 would get you into the "Gun Pool Lane".
61. MTV launches new show: Pimp my Gun. They would bring in beat up guns to goofy gunsmiths and bling em up.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Mar 15 2010, 10:35AM
I'm all over number 11!!!
I do have one concern, the Toyota fire by wire system...
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Thu Mar 18 2010, 12:50PM
BBL Sportsmans Club ???????
Does anyone here belong to it? I havn't been able to access their web site for months. Just wondering what's going on with the place???
Their web site: [Click Here]
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Mar 19 2010, 12:00AM
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Mar 19 2010, 06:29AM
You just had to pour salt on the wound!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Mar 19 2010, 06:33AM
Luna, if you were a better shot you wouldn't need all those bullets.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Mar 19 2010, 12:59PM
Hey now, all those extra bullets are to lay down suppression fire, giving someone else the ability to out flank them and take them out with well aimed shots!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Mar 19 2010, 05:28PM
You must have lots of targets to shoot at??
Lucky man.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Mar 19 2010, 10:36PM
Aw heck, that was just one little box of 100 for practice and fun. I try and grab 4-6 boxes every time I pass WallyWorld.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Mar 20 2010, 07:21AM
I am in the process of becoming a new gun owner. Just wondering where the best place, price wise, is, to buy ammunition.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 20 2010, 08:51AM
you're in Ca. the only thing harder to find here is a politician with a brain.
You can check Wallyworld but thats hit or most likely miss, so look for a gun shop their price will be higher though, then there are on line sellers, some will still ship to Ca. others won't.
What calibur are you getting? 9mm is easier to find then 45, and 22 is some what OK
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Mar 20 2010, 08:56AM
Oregon.
No sales tax either.
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sat Mar 20 2010, 09:50AM
I buy all of my ammo online and reload for rifle, here are a few to try:
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
There are many others as well, just have to search around to find who has what and the best price. Good luck.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 20 2010, 09:52AM
I know... group buy!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sat Mar 20 2010, 10:32AM
Ammo has gotten very scarce since they started anticipating the coming of the Obama era.
Walmart was always the best choice for rim-fire and shotgun unless Big 5 and Turner's has the ammo that you looking for on sale. Lately, Walmart has started to limit the maximum amount of ammo that you can buy and their selection has also been very limited for rim-fire and center-fire ammo.
I have purchased online from Cheaper than Dirt and The Sportsman Guide when buying in lots of 500+. Of course, you have to factor in the shipping cost in their sale pricing.
As for gun shows, the past two years I have been to the L.A., Orange and San Diego shows only to be disappointed with the inflated pricing that the vendors were asking.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 20 2010, 12:19PM
[Click Here]
great price (for the times) and Ca. friendly
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Mar 20 2010, 12:43PM
I have have had a single shot .22 rifle since I was about 11. The last time I bought was many years ago at K-Mart and it was .22 shorts. I will be needing 9mm. I have wondered if Turners was a good place to buy. Also will be buys some 12 gauge shells. My son has an older rifle which I believe takes 7.62, but not sure about that.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 20 2010, 03:10PM
Turners is OK, some(most) of the sales people know nothing and will tell you FUD (all lies) so know what you want before you buy and know your price range.
click this to get their on line ad and see what they got this week. [Click Here]
Oh do not buy a S&W Sigma, not woth the money.
If you don't mind used you can get some excellent deals at most guns shops. Or I can steer you to a few places that have lists.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Sat Mar 20 2010, 03:37PM
The best price for shotgun shells is WalMart !!!
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sat Mar 20 2010, 04:40PM
I SOOoooo want an H&K.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun Mar 21 2010, 04:56PM
Ok, after a little research (very little) what would you suggest for home protection .38 .380 or 9mm or something else? In the hand of a small woman would you think a .223 would be sufficient?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Mar 21 2010, 06:24PM
I love my little .380 perfect for a woman in size . Also I have a 45 (military) would use it mostly to make noise Of course if it happened to hit someone it would do the job
9MM (about the same as .380) seemes to be a good choice due to ammunation being a standard and a good weapon. buy quality also extra mags,
When I can afford it I would like to get a mini-14
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sun Mar 21 2010, 07:32PM
Personally, for home protection you can't beat a 12 gauge or 20 gauge pump. Lots of noise, impact and hit percentage. Relatively inexpensive to purchase both weapon and ammo. Next, 1911 45 ACP.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 21 2010, 07:39PM
.380 is better then nothing, but for home defense I'd go with a .357 minimum. You can shoot 38's in them so practice is cheaper this way, I know women that love a .45 so don’t sell your wife short, go to a range that rents and try out a bunch, or you buy the ammo and I’ll let her shoot some on mine, from a .22, .380, .38/.357, .45, or 9mm, there is also a .327 but it has a wicked good kick. I like it, my daughter not so much so she shoots lower power 32’s in hers.
Now if you take me up on my offer I’ll need to know if she wants to try semi-auto or revolver, I recommend revolver due to the ease of operation, load, close cylinder, aim and pull trigger.
Semi-auto is almost the same but you have to rack the slid in the to load a round in the chamber and some women (my kid) say it’s to hard to do………
PM me if interested.
.223 is a rifle round, like Oden said shootgun is a great way to go too.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Mar 21 2010, 08:44PM
Yep! Less chance of hittin' neighbors too, if they are relatively close.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Mar 24 2010, 03:30AM
My vote also goes for the shotgun. From personal experience, the distinct sound of racking (chambering) a shell causes any dirt-bag to look for the nearest exit!
Now, if you actually would like to try to reduce the dirt-bag population a handgun in .357 magnum, .40 S&W or .45 ACP calibers would be my best choices.
As for recoil, not all .45 Auto are as intimidating as the original Colt Government 1911 Series XX. My wife prefers shooting my Glock Model 30 over both my S&W Sigma (9mm) and Walther PPKS (.380 Auto).
Before you purchase any firearm, might I suggest you try to get some friends or forum members to let you fire a few rounds through their firearms to find the best fit for you and your spouse.
Hint, hint, we just happen to in the process of trying to schedule a clean-up and shooting meet for the month of April. [Click Here]
You are more than welcome to come try out my Sigma , Glock and Mossberg 9200 12 gauge semi-auto shotgun.
Sorry no longer own a pump action shotgun, an in-law relieved me of my first gun collection while the Mrs. and I were on our honeymoon. Made the mistake of asking the person to watch our house and dogs while we were away and he hocked my guns for drugs!
I really miss my SKS, Mossberg 590 and S&W 659.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Mar 24 2010, 06:11AM
BTW, a .410 shotgun when outfitted with slugs almost has the same muzzle energy as .44 Magnum.
Load it with 00 Buckshot and you get to fire four (4) approximately .30 caliber sized pellets towards your intended target.
Can you say OUCH?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Mar 24 2010, 06:50AM
I always wanted to get a snake charmer 28 1/2 inch long. .410
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed Mar 24 2010, 12:37PM
Do they still make Thompson Contender? Did I spell it right?
Obviously I'm looking for the poop that Google doesn't know.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 24 2010, 01:09PM
Yes and the range of what you can get/do is amazing!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Thu Mar 25 2010, 03:37AM
Back in the day when I lived in Florida, a family friend had a Class III license that allowed him to collect quite a few firearms that I drooled over. Aside from the fully automatic ones, I really wanted to get a hold of the "special purpose" versions shotguns that he owned. He had pump action, semi-auto and double barreled shotguns that were not much bigger than an 8" barreled revolver.
One could argue the practicality of these firearms till Obama finds his "real" birth certificate, again!
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Mar 25 2010, 08:59PM
My new question: Went shopping today at a gun store and I think I got a clerk who new quite a bit. He gave me some good background on the Mossberg and Remington 12ga. shotguns, then said it was pretty much personal preference. Comments from the peanut gallery?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Mar 25 2010, 09:39PM
Socalman
I don't think you ever explained why you were buying a gun?
Myself, I don't have much use for a shotgun. They are very good in your home but are a devastating weapon, and like all can go through walls. Keep in mind your families safety. If you use a lighter shot you can mitigate the damage a bit.
In most in the home cases I would be happy with a 22 semi pistol.
don't ignore having a good blade. Many times that might be a better weapon.
If you want it mostly for plinking I suggest you start with a 22 and work your way up. You will learn fast and if you go out with the group you will quickly decide on what you would like.
they all have a special area they are best at. Don't buy junk. A few minutes in a gun store and your eye should quickly pick up on quality.
But don't overlook the military if you are looking at a rifle. Lots of good stuff that may not look so good in that area.
grab somebody that knows their way around and go to a gun show.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Mar 26 2010, 05:15AM
Socalman,
Sorry for the length of my post, but here my .02 worth.
I would have to second BG's statement "I don't think you ever explained why you were buying a gun?".
If your primary reason is defense of your home then, I would again recommend the pump-action shotgun. The sound of chambering a round is universally known to dirt-bags and your chances of missing in a panicked situation are minimized.
As for which caliber to purchase, the .12 gauge is the most common, and therefore easiest to find on sale. The smaller .20 gauge and much smaller .410 are equally suited for the task.
Don't get me wrong any firearm in the hands of a reasonably proficient shooter is up to the task. In making your decision also factor in how much range time and ammo you are willing to invest. If your commitment will be minimal, and home defense is the reason for purchase, then the shotgun is your best bet!
No disrespect to BG but any handgun that you purchase would require you to greatly increase your investment into becoming a proficient shooter. Irrespective of its diminutive size, the .22 caliber is a very lethal round. That been said, its lethality is highly dependent on shot placement.
From my experience, if you add panic to the equation, your chances of hitting your target will be greatly diminished.
Another thing to ponder, if you do hit your target, do you want kill the SOB or do you just want to wound him so that he can challenge you in court?
I subscribe to the old saying "a dead man tells no tales".
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Mar 26 2010, 06:58AM
Yes! to what Rubi said. Practice, practice, practice! I like to go 2 times a week and when I miss a few times I can see it in my target. You need to shoot just so your mind gets motor skills and knows what to do with out thinking. Handgun or shotgun, this is true, you need to know what is behind your target, is it your kids room, outside wall, car, whatever. Think “If I miss where is the bullet going to stop”. This is the second lesson, the first is, a gun is ALWAYS loaded.
Another reason to practice is to learn the firearm you are using, I own more then one but the one I shoot the most is the one I will use for HD as I know it best.
Rubi, I was taught by a Police office to shoot, not to wound, one reason is you don’t want them to come back either in court or at night. I don’t know anyone that can place all their shots to wound not kill, that said I’ve heard stories of perps. getting multiple shots with a 45 and living.
So if you get one lets set up a weekly range practice time!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Mar 26 2010, 07:39AM
THAT is one of the most important questions of all...
Using lethal force with a lethal weapon vs. wounding someone with a lethal weapon, and then having the dirtbag sue you in court...even if he loses, so do you in the costs to defend yourself.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Mar 26 2010, 09:14AM
As tough as it may sound, I agree with this statement.
IF I have to use a weapon to defend myself and my home, I'm shooting to KILL.
I hope I never have to do this, but if some criminal breaks into my home, I'm not going to give them a chance to hurt me. I'll yell that I'm armed and they have 3 seconds to leave my home. That's it.
After that, game on.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Fri Mar 26 2010, 09:48AM
About shotguns. In my opinion, the Remmington 870 pump, 12 or 20ga is the best gun for the money. You can find them on sale once in a while at Big 5 ( or with a rebate sometimes ). They are very nice guns, build great. The 20 ga is about 6.5 lbs ( 1 lb lighter than the 12ga ). Easy to handle. "Target" shells are ~ $5 for 25 ( at wally-world ). You can get a huge varity of shells for whatever you want to shoot. I'm going to be ( i think ) at the Mitsu Plant shoot-out on the 10th if anyne wants to try the 20ga 870. I got my new Target flinger HOLDER that my neighbor made for me (see pic) it fits into the receiver on the back of my truck :-)
Good luck, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Fri Mar 26 2010, 09:58AM
Could kick myself around the block for selling my 870 20 Modified years ago. BUT used the $ to get an Ithaca side by side 20, Skeet and Skeet; talk about fast handling and a dream to carry!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Mar 26 2010, 11:15AM
Okay, now I REALLY need to get into reloading...
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Mar 26 2010, 01:35PM
To answer the question, why are we interested in buying? First of all I think that if I don't exercise our 2nd amendment rights soon, I my not have the opportunity to do so.
Second, I would like to have something around for some home protection. Right now, where I am in my research I am leaning to a shotgun first, also thinking that I could use it for occasional hunting with my brother. The next part of the situation is handgun. I looked at a snub-nose .38 revolver, 5 shot for my wife, though the .22 could also be an option. For myself I am think a .357 since it will also hold the .38 as I understand.
Though I would not consider myself proficient with firearms, as a teen I shot quite a bit and can handle the weapon well enough to hit the center of the target quite a bit.
I am going to take the state firearms test next week.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Mar 26 2010, 01:42PM
Addendum to the above post and answers a question:
If someone is in my home without permission I have no problem to let them meet their maker. I don't believe in "shoot to wound" as according to a good friend of mine who taught shooting for the LAPD, when a cop shoots to wound he often ends up killed. The decision has to be made before you grab the weapon. Don't get me wrong, I am not going to shoot at any noise I might hear in my home. However once I determine it to be a bad guy I have no problems.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Fri Mar 26 2010, 04:03PM
Socalman: I have a mossberg 12 guage pump that has an interchangable barrel. Normally the 18" barrel is on it for home defense. As far as the test, make sure you review the manual that prepares you for that test. Easy test (I scored 110%) but there is questions about the law that I would not have known other than in the manual. I believe you can download it somewhere. Maybe others here would know exactly where. Good luck.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Mar 26 2010, 04:59PM
I've only shot one (older) snub nose .38. It was very difficult to control and is really not good for anything over 20~40+ yards. Heck, I had trouble hitting targets 20~30 ft away and I can normally hit my targets.
I was not very impressed.
The 9mm Luna recently purchased looks nice. I like steel guns, like Baretta pistols. I've found them to be more reliable.
[Click Here]
Maybe you should visit the next shooting event near the Mitsubishi plant? You'll get to try a bunch of weapons first hand and see which ones you like.
I know you'll make the right choices for your needs.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Mar 26 2010, 05:01PM
This should be my "front gate"
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Mar 26 2010, 05:58PM
Socalman,
Here is a link to CA Handgun Safety Certificate Program study guide.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Mar 26 2010, 06:20PM
I'll bring a sunbie for you to try, one in 38/357 and one in 9mm...................
lots of fun!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Mar 26 2010, 06:44PM
OMG. that's more than what it takes to get a CHL (concealed handgun license) up here. The local Sheriff's office staff teaches a 3 hour course for $25...
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Mar 27 2010, 07:21AM
Thanks all! I picked up the gun safety test booklet at the gun shop I visited. I would say 90% of it would come under common sense.
I doubt I will be able to make the event at the Mitsu plant on the 10th. I am still recovering from the very severe sciatica and am just getting to the place I can walk again without a cane. Perhaps the next event I can make it.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Mar 27 2010, 07:24AM
Maybe I should use our Big Bear address. My home is LA County and getting a concealed weapon permit is IMPOSSIBLE.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Mar 27 2010, 07:48AM
Get OFF my lawn!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Mar 27 2010, 12:23PM
at what at least a buck a round for the M.G.'s???
gotta love Arizona
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 27 2010, 01:02PM
Oh man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Mar 28 2010, 07:23AM
Trying to get one in CA is near impossible in most counties unless you can justify it by your profession.
I have worked for a local Sheriff's Dept for almost 19 years now, working alongside deputies, helping them babysit inmates and I still do not qualify for one in my department's eyes. Even though we occasionally receive threats, my co-workers and I that have applied for CCWs have always been denied by the last three Sheriff's administration.
Heck, we are no longer allowed to request for the confidentiality of our license plates.
There is always "open carry" if you are up with your gun laws, and are confident that you draw, load a magazine and chamber a round before the perp has his way with you and your firearm. Of course, you must be prepared to been stopped by LEOs that will ask you to demonstrate that the firearm is unloaded and that you are legally allowed to own a firearm while you are probably at gun point.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Apr 02 2010, 03:54PM
Took one more step to exercising my 2nd amendment rights today. I took the handgun safety test and passed with 100%. Hard to believe people miss more then 7 questions on it! I now have my permit to buy a handgun in the late great state of California.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Apr 02 2010, 10:50PM
now comes the decision to buy through a dealer, or private party not registered.
plus and minus to both sides
If you might want to get a carry permi get it registered.
If you are paranoid about them breaking your door down to take it away buy private party.
other downsides of not registering.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Apr 03 2010, 07:47AM
BG can NOT legally buy from a privet party, unless you go through a FFL for the deal.
I do it all the time so it can be done it's called a FTF (face to face) deal or PPT( Privet party transaction), all sales need to go this way (FFL). in ca.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Apr 03 2010, 01:34PM
leagle?....we don' need no stinken leagle
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sat Apr 03 2010, 01:35PM
Hear, hear!!
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Apr 03 2010, 06:46PM
Just because certain high ranking government officials don't feel it is necessary to follow the law, I probably will. Is registration of handguns constitutional? I do not really know, though to be honest I lean to it being constitutional.
On the other hand, are sobriety checkpoints constitutional? I firmly believe they are a VIOLATION of the constitution, yet I am sort of glad they have been allowed to exist. As a musician I often worked gigs that ended at 1:00AM. I was usually on the road home between 1:45 and 2:30 AM and every single time I could spot severely impaired drivers.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Apr 03 2010, 07:18PM
I myself don't believe it is right, but till it is over-thrown in court I'll play their game
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Apr 03 2010, 09:32PM
It is probably smarter to register, at least one gun. But may be wiser not to.
If you lean towards paranoia, an unrefistered assault rifle and a 1,000 rounds of ammo hiden away can keep you warm at night.
My stuff is pretty generic and I will argue grandfathered in as most have been in the family forever.
The reason not to register is in the movie red dawn. A fear long before the movie came out. And mostly a fear of our own government if it were ever hijacked . Which of course could never happen, right?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Apr 04 2010, 03:28PM
BG, if you owned them before 2000, don't worry. no one knows.
Now if you go to sell them via a dealer there still will be no problem as you own them before the new law.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Apr 05 2010, 09:08PM
Just learned yesterday why I need to stock up on 2nd amendment goodies. Jack Bauer will not be around next year to protect us! In all seriousness, I think I have settled on the Mossberg 500 as the first shotgun. The weight factor, particularly in the hands of my wife is a major factor. Now, just to find the best buy on it. Will hit pawn shops this week, Turners in both Pasadena & West Covina. Does Big 5 still carry guns in California?
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Apr 05 2010, 10:15PM
My son has had a Bulgarian made 7.62 semi for years. He has 42 rounds in stock. I just ordered 4 boxes, each a different brand, from an online source. After placing the order I began to wonder, do you think 20 rounds is enough to judge the quality of the product? We intend to order "an ample supply" if they seem to work.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:31AM
Yes, Big 5 still sells guns in CA.
Right now they have a Remington Security 12 gauge shotgun on sale for $369.99. I've seen it go for $319.99 with a $50.00 Remington mail-in rebate recently but who knows when another rebate will be offered by the manufacturer. [Click Here]
Link to Turner's Outdoorsman weekly ad: [Click Here]
Link to Turner's Outdoorsman spring flyer: [Click Here]
Another source for gun sales is Davidson's Gallery of Guns [Click Here] and Gunbroker [Click Here].
Davidson's offers you the ability to see the prices of independent gun dealer based on your zip code while Gunbroker allows you to shop national dealers and private parties that will still sell to and deliver firearms to CA through the FFL dealer of your choice.
BTW, Turner's will do the transfer for private party sales for less than $50 dollars now that you have your certificate.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 06 2010, 07:02AM
I was going to pass on any comment about big 5 and transfers, but just got done reading some horror storys about them, I would look for a gun shop for transfers, and "by law" they are only allowed to charge you $35.00 dollars for a PPT/FTF transfer, thats $10. + $25. dros fee. It pays to call around to shops to find out their fees as some do charge more.
I have a FFL friend in Apple Valley that will do it for $35. He is also a Sheriff and always has good deals on handguns and rifles,
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Apr 06 2010, 02:03PM
THE
GETTYSBURG
ADDRESS
Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth
on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and
dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing
whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so
dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-
field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of
that field as a final resting-place for those who here gave
their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether
fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate…we cannot
consecrate…we cannot hallow…this ground. The brave men,
living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it
far above our poor power to add or detract. The world
will little note nor long remember what we say here, but
it can never forget what they did here. It is for us, the
living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished
work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly
advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the
great task remaining before us…that from these honored
dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which
they gave the last full measure of devotion; that we here
highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain;
that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of
freedom; and that government of the people, by the people,
for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
November 19, 1863
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Apr 06 2010, 02:09PM
Go to Constitutional Amendments
THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION
--------------------- ----------------------------------- ------------------------
(See Note 1)
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Article. I.
Section 1.
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
Section. 2.
Clause 1: The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.
Clause 2: No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.
Clause 3: Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. (See Note 2) The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.
Clause 4: When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.
Clause 5: The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
Section. 3.
Clause 1: The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, (See Note 3) for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.
Clause 2: Immediately after they shall be assembled in Consequence of the first Election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three Classes. The Seats of the Senators of the first Class shall be vacated at the Expiration of the second Year, of the second Class at the Expiration of the fourth Year, and of the third Class at the Expiration of the sixth Year, so that one third may be chosen every second Year; and if Vacancies happen by Resignation, or otherwise, during the Recess of the Legislature of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary Appointments until the next Meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such Vacancies. (See Note 4)
Clause 3: No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.
Clause 4: The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
Clause 5: The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States.
Clause 6: The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
Clause 7: Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
Section. 4.
Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
Clause 2: The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, (See Note 5) unless they shall by Law appoint a different Day.
Section. 5.
Clause 1: Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller Number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.
Clause 2: Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member.
Clause 3: Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their Judgment require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the Desire of one fifth of those Present, be entered on the Journal.
Clause 4: Neither House, during the Session of Congress, shall, without the Consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other Place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting.
Section. 6.
Clause 1: The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. (See Note 6) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, beprivileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
Clause 2: No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.
Section. 7.
Clause 1: All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.
Clause 2: Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.
Clause 3: Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.
Section. 8.
Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Section. 9.
Clause 1: The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
Clause 2: The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
Clause 3: No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Clause 4: No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken. (See Note 7)
Clause 5: No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
Clause 6: No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
Clause 7: No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
Clause 8: No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
Section. 10.
Clause 1: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
Clause 2: No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.
Clause 3: No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
Article. II.
Section. 1.
Clause 1: The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows
Clause 2: Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
Clause 3: The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President. (See Note 8)
Clause 4: The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
Clause 5: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
Clause 6: In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, (See Note 9) the Same shall devolve on the VicePresident, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
Clause 7: The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.
Clause 8: Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Section. 2.
Clause 1: The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
Clause 2: He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
Clause 3: The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.
Section. 3.
He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.
Section. 4.
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Article. III.
Section. 1.
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.
Section. 2.
Clause 1: The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;--between a State and Citizens of another State; (See Note 10)--between Citizens of different States, --between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.
Clause 2: In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.
Clause 3: The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.
Section. 3.
Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
Clause 2: The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
Article. IV.
Section. 1.
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Section. 2.
Clause 1: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
Clause 2: A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.
Clause 3: No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due. (See Note 11)
Section. 3.
Clause 1: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
Clause 2: The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
Section. 4.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
Article. VI.
Clause 1: All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
Clause 2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Article. VII.
The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.
done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
GO WASHINGTON--Presidt. and deputy from Virginia
[Signed also by the deputies of twelve States.]
Delaware
Geo: Read
Gunning Bedford jun
John Dickinson
Richard Bassett
Jaco: Broom
Maryland
James MCHenry
Dan of ST ThoS. Jenifer
DanL Carroll.
Virginia
John Blair--
James Madison Jr.
North Carolina
WM Blount
RichD. Dobbs Spaight.
Hu Williamson
South Carolina
J. Rutledge
Charles 1ACotesworth Pinckney
Charles Pinckney
Pierce Butler.
Georgia
William Few
Abr Baldwin
New Hampshire
John Langdon
Nicholas Gilman
Massachusetts
Nathaniel Gorham
Rufus King
Connecticut
WM. SamL. Johnson
Roger Sherman
New York
Alexander Hamilton
New Jersey
Wil: Livingston
David Brearley.
WM. Paterson.
Jona: Dayton
Pennsylvania
B Franklin
Thomas Mifflin
RobT Morris
Geo. Clymer
ThoS. FitzSimons
Jared Ingersoll
James Wilson.
Gouv Morris
Attest William Jackson Secretary
NOTES
Note 1: This text of the Constitution follows the engrossed copy signed by Gen. Washington and the deputies from 12 States. The small superior figures preceding the paragraphs designate Clauses, and were not in the original and have no reference to footnotes.
The Constitution was adopted by a convention of the States on September 17, 1787, and was subsequently ratified by the several States, on the following dates: Delaware, December 7, 1787; Pennsylvania, December 12, 1787; New Jersey, December 18, 1787; Georgia, January 2, 1788; Connecticut, January 9, 1788; Massachusetts, February 6, 1788; Maryland, April 28, 1788; South Carolina, May 23, 1788; New Hampshire, June 21, 1788.
Ratification was completed on June 21, 1788.
The Constitution was subsequently ratified by Virginia, June 25, 1788; New York, July 26, 1788; North Carolina, November 21, 1789; Rhode Island, May 29, 1790; and Vermont, January 10, 1791.
In May 1785, a committee of Congress made a report recommending an alteration in the Articles of Confederation, but no action was taken on it, and it was left to the State Legislatures to proceed in the matter. In January 1786, the Legislature of Virginia passed a resolution providing for the appointment of five commissioners, who, or any three of them, should meet such commissioners as might be appointed in the other States of the Union, at a time and place to be agreed upon, to take into consideration the trade of the United States; to consider how far a uniform system in their commercial regulations may be necessary to their common interest and their permanent harmony; and to report to the several States such an act, relative to this great object, as, when ratified by them, will enable the United States in Congress effectually to provide for the same. The Virginia commissioners, after some correspondence, fixed the first Monday in September as the time, and the city of Annapolis as the place for the meeting, but only four other States were represented, viz: Delaware, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania; the commissioners appointed by Massachusetts, New Hampshire, North Carolina, and Rhode Island failed to attend. Under the circumstances of so partial a representation, the commissioners present agreed upon a report, (drawn by Mr. Hamilton, of New York,) expressing their unanimous conviction that it might essentially tend to advance the interests of the Union if the States by which they were respectively delegated would concur, and use their endeavors to procure the concurrence of the other States, in the appointment of commissioners to meet at Philadelphia on the Second Monday of May following, to take into consideration the situation of the United States; to devise such further provisions as should appear to them necessary to render the Constitution of the Federal Government adequate to the exigencies of the Union; and to report such an act for that purpose to the United States in Congress assembled as, when agreed to by them and afterwards confirmed by the Legislatures of every State, would effectually provide for the same.
Congress, on the 21st of February, 1787, adopted a resolution in favor of a convention, and the Legislatures of those States which had not already done so (with the exception of Rhode Island) promptly appointed delegates. On the 25th of May, seven States having convened, George Washington, of Virginia, was unanimously elected President, and the consideration of the proposed constitution was commenced. On the 17th of September, 1787, the Constitution as engrossed and agreed upon was signed by all the members present, except Mr. Gerry of Massachusetts, and Messrs. Mason and Randolph, of Virginia. The president of the convention transmitted it to Congress, with a resolution stating how the proposed Federal Government should be put in operation, and an explanatory letter. Congress, on the 28th of September, 1787, directed the Constitution so framed, with the resolutions and letter concerning the same, to "be transmitted to the several Legislatures in order to be submitted to a convention of delegates chosen in each State by the people thereof, in conformity to the resolves of the convention."
On the 4th of March, 1789, the day which had been fixed for commencing the operations of Government under the new Constitution, it had been ratified by the conventions chosen in each State to consider it, as follows: Delaware, December 7, 1787; Pennsylvania, December 12, 1787; New Jersey, December 18, 1787; Georgia, January 2, 1788; Connecticut, January 9, 1788; Massachusetts, February 6, 1788; Maryland, April 28, 1788; South Carolina, May 23, 1788; New Hampshire, June 21, 1788; Virginia, June 25, 1788; and New York, July 26, 1788.
The President informed Congress, on the 28th of January, 1790, that North Carolina had ratified the Constitution November 21, 1789; and he informed Congress on the 1st of June, 1790, that Rhode Island had ratified the Constitution May 29, 1790. Vermont, in convention, ratified the Constitution January 10, 1791, and was, by an act of Congress approved February 18, 1791, "received and admitted into this Union as a new and entire member of the United States."
Note 2: The part of this Clause relating to the mode of apportionment of representatives among the several States has been affected by Section 2 of amendment XIV, and as to taxes on incomes without apportionment by amendment XVI.
Note 3: This Clause has been affected by Clause 1 of amendment XVII.
Note 4: This Clause has been affected by Clause 2 of amendment XVIII.
Note 5: This Clause has been affected by amendment XX.
Note 6: This Clause has been affected by amendment XXVII.
Note 7: This Clause has been affected by amendment XVI.
Note 8: This Clause has been superseded by amendment XII.
Note 9: This Clause has been affected by amendment XXV.
Note 10: This Clause has been affected by amendment XI.
Note 11: This Clause has been affected by amendment XIII.
This information has been compiled from the U.S. Code. The U.S. Code is published by the Law Revision Counsel of the U.S. House of Representatives.
Updated September 20, 2004
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Re: Gun ownership
bc, Tue Apr 06 2010, 02:12PM
My great grandfather, as an older man with grown children, got his rifle, mounted up, and joined the Union forces to go free the slaves, which they did. I'm only half "white". Our family has a history of defending this country, all the way back to the original settlers and up to and including my offspring. I'm getting extremely tired of people who think I, or any of my many relatives, owe them something.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:02PM
wow Brandon supporting the 2a rights of Americans.
un-believable!!!!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:11PM
You forgot to congratulate him on his first two posts without name calling or denigrating someone because of their religion.
Hooray Brandon on a job well done!!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:28PM
oh yea, that too.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:30PM
I don't know exactly where we are going with this thread. but.....
While looking up my family a few years ago I ran across this picture.
It was titled Knickerbocker reunion at Devil's den, little round top, Gettysburg.
Nothing else was said but I asumed they all fought for the north With the 'boys from Pennsylvania. But it is entirely possible that the dark suits were northern, and the lighter suits a bit seperated, but together were fo the Sout.
And how many more were there that didn't make it?
Fought almost in the backyard of where my Grandfather was born a few years later.
sort of a civil war baby boomer
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:49PM
Ah BG, wish you c/would write it all down, my familys history in this country started in the 1890's with my grandfarther landing at Ellis island
Re: Gun ownership
Winkie, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:56PM
Awesome picture BG. Incredible history.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Apr 06 2010, 04:48PM
actualy I know little about any civil war history. It is not mentioned in any letters I have. There were a lot of family in Pennsylvania, 2 branches of the family. (we were the poor ones). Only one other family member was talked about having gone to war and that was WW2.
My moms brothers, cousins etc. all seved WW2 in the Pacific for the most part (navy). I think they have served in about every war this country has been involved in.
And her family goes way back.to the early settelers. She has a prettyy good list of names, but I haven't got to that side much.
I think if we all did some digging we would find some very interesting people
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 06 2010, 04:57PM
I bet you could BG!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Apr 06 2010, 08:02PM
perhap's digging was the wrong word to use to "find some very interesting people"
(very rare emote)
Re: Gun ownership
Deb Doodah, Tue Apr 06 2010, 08:05PM
My family geneology has been done by a number of folks in the family. It is a lot of fun to look through. I had relatives that arrived on the Mayflower, some that were on either side of the Boston Tea Party, and William Bradford who was the first governor of the Mayflower Compact. And, Calvin Coolidge some where in the mix. This is all on my Mom's side.
Now, my dad's side came from Ireland during the Potato famine and were dirt farmers in Kansas. I haven't seen all the new information my dad has found but he has gone back to nobleman and the like way back when.
If you ever get a chance, you can look at Geneology.com and get lots of information.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Apr 06 2010, 08:34PM
when I first started looking around I found where someone had my immediate family listed wife, kids, etc. To this day I haven't found who went to that trouble Not that many people would have had the information on that and would bother.
Gets scarey as you go further back. If you go back10 generations or so it seems there is a link that could connect us all.
Re: Gun ownership
Winkie, Wed Apr 07 2010, 08:02AM
guncontrol.wmv
There are those whom would benefit from gun control and their rights need to be protected!
(has sound)
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Apr 07 2010, 08:31AM
WTF ?
Sorry He-is-RisenWink with all the name changes I thought 3B posted that video.
I am really truly sorry on so many levels
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Apr 07 2010, 08:40AM
BG,
Wink, yes they love "victim zones" they may get hurt if people could have guns.
Re: Gun ownership
Winkie, Wed Apr 07 2010, 12:52PM
Sorry if it was a repeat. I just got this one today in my email.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Apr 07 2010, 01:30PM
ya know, some of us forget what we had for breakfast, I'm just sayin'
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Apr 09 2010, 08:24AM
Amazing Slow Motion Bullet Impact
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue Apr 13 2010, 06:42AM
As I move into the realm of exercising my 2nd amendment rights I have another question for the more experienced gun owners out there. I am doing everything to the letter of the law (even if I believe that the law is unconstitutional). I am researching handguns for personal protection. Obviously a firearm sitting at home will not do my wife any good if she is threatened. So now the question of the ability to carry a concealed weapon. She is not going to get a gun with a 6 inch barrel into or out of a purse very easily. I know you can find a .357 with a 2 inch barrel but that may not be the best choice. I am thinking that something in the area of a 3 inch would be good choice. Comments?
Re: Gun ownership
Deb Doodah, Tue Apr 13 2010, 07:02AM
Stun Gun! I have 2. One I keep in my purse and the other I keep in my desk. Which reminds me, time to recharge. They are inexpensive, make a lot of noise, and are legal to carry (except on an airplane). They will do the job in a pinch and it gives you enough time to get out of harms way.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 13 2010, 07:02AM
If, and I do mean IF, she can (and you too) get a CCW, for her a .380 is a good choice for carry in a purse, but for stopping power a 3" is a great choice in a 38/357, more kick but if needed your adrenalin will be pumping so it's good.
In san berdo it is easier to get your ccw but still a good wait, I hear it is a year to get. I'll be looking in to it soon.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed Apr 14 2010, 08:23AM
Found what appears to be a good buy on a Mossberg 500a. Big Five for $269.00 good through this Sunday.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Apr 15 2010, 11:06PM
I will be putting my money down tomorrow on a Mossberg 500a. This will act as our home defense weapon that hopefully will never be needed.
While I have some shooting experience, my wife has none at all. I figure to burn up a fair number of shells as we both work with the gun. I can find a very good buy on smaller birdshot shells. I am thinking this is the way to go at first. I want my wife to be able to load up and shoot accurately twice in a short time period. My goal is to get 4 shots off very quickly in minimal time. Any problem with using #7 or #8 at 1180 fps for the learning experience?
I intend to keep it ready for use with #4 buckshot with a velocity of 1500+ fps. Your input greatly appreciated.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Apr 16 2010, 05:54AM
Your choices for practice are fine to get your spouse accustomed to the weapon. I would suggest that you also let her get accustomed to whatever rounds you decide to keep the 500 loaded with.
#4 and even #6 are not bad choices for home defense loads, even if the perp. is wearing a heavy jacket, they will do the job.
Below is a chart that lists the sizes of the individual projectiles and their count per ounce.
Below is a link to Hornady's buckshot sizing.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Apr 16 2010, 07:33AM
Thanks for the reply! I have been doing a good deal of internet reading, however I do not know what or whom to trust. You know, in all my years of education I never heard this subject mentioned!
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Fri Apr 16 2010, 10:56AM
SoCalMan, if you go to Wal_Mart and buy the "Target" rounds they are around $24 for 100 shells of 12ga. They don't have the kick so they are great for learning. They still will go around 1200fps, just won't travel as far. If you ever want to go shooting over near the Mistubishi plant let me know, I would be happy to show you shotgun saftey/practice.
Good luck, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Apr 16 2010, 05:25PM
Rod, after my 10 day waiting period is up, I may give you a call. Why is it called a 10 day period when it is really 11?
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Apr 16 2010, 05:38PM
10 days for a shotgun?
Heck, in OreGUN we don't even have a waiting period for handguns, nor do you need a handgun safety certificate, just photo ID that proves that you are a resident of the state, do the instant background check, pay for it and take it home.
But then our stores usually have a wide selection of AR-15s behind the counter as well, available to take home today...
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Fri Apr 16 2010, 05:55PM
Nice!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:16PM
if you really wanted to push the issue they would have to give it to you at the end of ten -24 hour days, just make sure you got there after your 240 hours are up, not 239H 58 min.
I use to bust the chops of my FFL when he changed it to 11 days but he said nobody knows how to count so 1 extra day to keep the DOJ of his back. I still got mine on the 10th day, I just watched the time.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:21PM
Almost TOO nice when you see something that you WANT...
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:32PM
THAT would be my problem. "I'll take that and 2,000 rounds please, hurry!"
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:40PM
Obviously you know the drill... "Keep shopping honey..."
And I also have a neighbor RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET who is selling an AR - I keep trying to avoid him until I'm good and sure that he has "re-homed" that boy...
Uuugh!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:43PM
Yeah, I want one of those too, but don't want to deal with the top-loading issue.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:49PM
Ca. gun laws suck!!!!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:56PM
Yes they do x 2!
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Fri Apr 16 2010, 10:21PM
The gun laws hear in Az aren't to tough to deal with. We do not need a concealed weapon permit to carry a concealed weapon. need a hand gun, walk in a buy it, an walk out with it. BSF
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sat Apr 17 2010, 06:05AM
Those of us that live in the People's Socialist Republic of Mexifornia AKA California already know our gun laws suck, stop pouring liquid Drano on the wound.
Seriously, I have never understood why after you purchase your first firearm, you still have to wait the 10 days for each subsequent firearm purchase.
Are they saying it takes them that long to process your paperwork because they can no longer use the "cool off period" excuse for the 10 day delay.
I know, I know, quit my bitching and move to a more Constitution friendly state!
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Apr 17 2010, 03:05PM
Another question about ammo for 12 gauge. AS i look online, I see the following: 12ga 2 3/4 1.5oz #8. I understand all the numbers except the oz. Is that the total weight of the shot load? Once again, what load would you suggest for my wife to first shoot? I don't want her to have her first 12ga shot put her on her a$$. I am guessing a 2 3/4 #8 or 9 with the slowest muzzle velocity?
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Apr 18 2010, 07:10AM
Your right, the "oz." number is the the total weight of the shot in a shotshell.
As for light recoil shotshells, there are some specialized shotshells available but they are harder to find and considerably more expensive them the standard target load shotshells. Below are some examples:
Remington [Click Here]
Winchester [Click Here]
I would look for the combination of the lightest load and lowest velocity (FPS) available and pick up a slip-on recoil pad. Butler Creek [Click Here], Limb Saver [Click Here] and Pachmyr [Click Here] have slip-on models for your Mossberg 500.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Apr 18 2010, 09:00PM
BSF sent me this link. I have heard of 2 gauge but never seen one.
I have fired the 45-70 and it is a cannon, but the shell looks like a 22 compared to this.
The 45-70 moves so slow that you can see it throw pine needles in the air if fired along the ground but can almost blow a tree apart with it's punch. I tore a 2 foot square hole in the back of a wood boat after hitting the keel
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Apr 22 2010, 10:59PM
I have been searching for what I believe are good prices on 12 gauge ammo. I think this is a good site, cheaperthandirt.com Of course you need the www in front of it. I ordered several different boxes of light loads. Any one else have experience with this online site?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Apr 23 2010, 04:07AM
if your still looging for a shotgun, you can't go wrong with this one.
great for upland game birds
I guess it would work O.K. in home protection also
[Click Here]
seriously this is one bill we have to stop from passage. I would hope it would be thrown out on constitutional grounds Immediatly
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Deb Doodah, Fri Apr 23 2010, 05:27AM
Had a friend suggest a website for ammo and thought I would share. [Click Here]
Not sure about their prices, but take a look and see if they have anything you need
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Apr 23 2010, 04:40PM
[quote]
if your still looging for a shotgun, you can't go wrong with this one.
great for upland game birds
I guess it would work O.K. in home protection also
How would it work on Big Bear squirrels that are eating my wife's flowers?
Actually I am waiting for my 11 day waiting period to be over and I pick up my Mossberg 500a.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Apr 23 2010, 04:55PM
I would think it should be overturned but the article says that 4 other states have passed such laws already. NO mention in the article if any contistitutional challenges are pending.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Apr 23 2010, 07:03PM
Elderly Woman Takes on Burglar
[Click Here]
...and the police reload her gun!
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sat Apr 24 2010, 02:46AM
I'm in love!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Apr 24 2010, 07:26AM
YES MAM!!!
This is why people need to have a gun to protect themselfs and use them!!
Thank you Officers for reloading it for her.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Apr 24 2010, 08:11AM
I will pick up my Mossberg 12ga. on Wednesday. I have ordered 6 different boxes of shells and they should arrive early in the week. I have hearing and vision protection. I think all I will need are cleaning supplies. I am seeking your input, Should I just get a complete kit? Buy the supplies individually? Any brands you suggest? Any brands or items to avoid?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Apr 24 2010, 08:28AM
1st Hopps #9 great stuff, do it outside as your boss, ie wife, may not like the smell, and get a kit for shotguns, that has a swab, jag, copper bore brush, and patches for a 12 gauge. That should get you going, you'll add more as you go on.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sat Apr 24 2010, 11:21AM
Here's an old Indian trick: When cleaning a shotgun, crumple up some newspaper and push it through the bore (always breach to muzzle when cleaning) using the cleaning rod. This pushes most/all of the loose detritus out. Then proceed with the usual patches and Hoppe's process.
PS My wife loves the smell of Hoppe's.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Apr 25 2010, 06:10AM
Those officers need to receive a commendation for reloading her gun!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Apr 25 2010, 06:20AM
Pick up my new Glock 21SF on Thursday @ 11:54 AM.
Brand new with three (3) 10 round magazines for $464.20 plus DROS and tax.
Now I need to schedule another shoot date to break it in.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed Apr 28 2010, 09:53PM
I picked up my Mossberg today. Also went to Turners and bought all the cleaning supplies. A nice box from Natchez arrived and I now have 180 little things to put in the gun to make it go boom. Also a nice pair of PINK hearing protectors for the wife!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Apr 29 2010, 07:11AM
For the wife........ OK we belive you
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Apr 29 2010, 08:33AM
Hey, I am very heavy in my shoes and I don't own loafers!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat May 01 2010, 05:07PM
CCW customer stops robbery; [Click Here]
and anotherone; [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat May 01 2010, 05:46PM
"Put di money innah di bag. Always smoke weed. Get high."
And that with a Wal*Mart bag over his head.
F'ing genius!!! It should have worked - I don't see how it possibly could have gone rong!
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat May 01 2010, 09:19PM
I agree Luna, seemed like the perfect crime planned by jeenis....jeenyus.....jeanyus, yeah dats it.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun May 02 2010, 04:13PM
Went shooting this afternoon and put about 100 rounds through the XDm 9. Decided to cycle a few rounds of my self-defense ammo to make sure that it runs through the gun okay and make sure that there aren't no surprises if the need ever arises...
I had two different kinds, one of 'em was +P+ and let me tell ya a little something, you know when ya fire them lil' babies...
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon May 03 2010, 09:29PM
Planning on breaking in the new Mossberg on Saturday at Burro Canyon. Any special points on breaking in a new shotgun? My son is going to bring his SKS and about 80 rounds for fun.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue May 04 2010, 05:55PM
Bring water, hats, chairs and remember to be safe at all times..
Have a blast. 
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue May 04 2010, 07:04PM
also the end with the big hole in it points down range
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue May 04 2010, 07:18PM
oh yea, ^ what he said
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed May 05 2010, 01:33PM
BGS, wouldn't that mean you pull the trigger? I always thought you pushed it away. Glad ya warned me.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 05 2010, 02:19PM
to do that right you have to take off your shoe and use a toe
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed May 05 2010, 03:12PM
Wholly WOW!
This is some fine shooting for ya!
[Click Here]
Hotshot sniper in one-and-a-half mile double kill
A BRITISH Army sniper has set a new sharpshooting distance record by killing two Taliban machinegunners in Afghanistan from more than a mile away.
Craig Harrison, a member of the Household Cavalry, killed the insurgents with consecutive shots — even though they were 3,000ft beyond the most effective range of his rifle.
“The first round hit a machinegunner in the stomach and killed him outright,” said Harrison, a Corporal of Horse. “He went straight down and didn’t move.
“The second insurgent grabbed the weapon and turned as my second shot hit him in the side. He went down, too. They were both dead.”...
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed May 05 2010, 04:48PM
Most folks, even very experienced shooters, have no idea all that's involved in that kind of shot. A lot of guessing right is involved; but it's highly educated guessing.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 05 2010, 06:39PM
just some of the things he would have had to figure in where to aim the bullet is that it will fall the same distance in those three seconds as it would had he dropped it. Add in if he was shooting uphill or downhill, the density of the air, possible wind. at that range it could blow different directions during it's flight. Also at what is beyond the reasonable distance of that round it is kind of like throwing a baseball a long way. It will have added fall as it loses power also the normal flight of a bullet is not constant. At different points it may be above or below the straight line just due to it'snature. ( in basic to qualify as as expert you have yo hit at least 37 out of 40 shots on a target the size of a man from about groin up. from distances of 50 to 300 meters with iron sights. I seem to remember longer distances with the m-14. There is also a limited time foreach shot at 50 meters you have to aim into the dirt to hit the target. at the longer range you would have to aim over the target. There are two spots where the bullet will be at the exact spot you aim. everywhere else it is higher or lower. For these fairly short ranges it is fairly easy
most misses during qualifying seemed to be on the 50 meter target
to have even hit the men at all was amazing but to be probably 6 inches low from where he wanted to hit them was better yet. At that distance with a good spotter and the right background he could have wasted a round aiming at something away from the men where he could see the strike he could adjust and have the second kill shot on the way before the first struck. Neither would have had heard the round that killed them even if there were no fighting going on.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri May 07 2010, 08:43PM
CLEANING QUESTION
Way back in the middle of the last century I was taught by my dad and the guys at Camp Bluff Lake (yep, the same one) that you need to clean your gun after every time you use it. I was reading my Mossberg owner's manual tonight and it says "...thorough cleaning of your firearm after every 200 rounds."
Is cleaning of less importance on a shotgun then a rifle? Is it that metallurgy and the propellants are less corrosive these days.
I have always been a person who changed motor oil every 3,000 miles. My last three cars have had 5000 and 7,000 miles in their suggested service schedules supposedly due to better metals and oils. I still change the car oil around 3500 miles.
What is the story on the gun cleaning?
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri May 07 2010, 09:51PM
I think that they meant after every 200 rounds fired and/or prior to storing the weapon, that it should be cleaned.
I had friends that shot in pistol and rifle match that ran the bore brush and a jag/patch through their weapons after every course.
Then again, they hand loaded their match ammo and had their barrels cryogenicaly treated to improve accuracy too.
Aside from the corrosive primers and shellac or lacquer used in cheap ammo, any residue left in the bore, muzzle and action acts as an absorbent for condensation to wreak havoc on your weapon.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri May 07 2010, 10:15PM
the first day I had my ruger 357 single six we took it out to the east end of Baldwin and put 2 boxes through it. Back then I don't know anyone who used ear protection. besides spraying lead out between the cylinder and barrel hitting those narby and firing after dark and seeing the flame belching out It took me a long time to clean it up. Today I would clean it during the shoot.
We went to ronardo's afterwards and I couldn't hear a thing for the loud ringing. It lasted several days. It was an ausome revolver back then. I don't think they even had a 44 mag. then or I would have bought that. Much to heavy for practicle work. I think if I buy another it will be a 9mm
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri May 07 2010, 10:18PM
this is a big one guys they are constantly trying to shut us down. please contact your representative, and maybe a few extra
Bill to Outlaw Open Carry to be Considered on Wednesday, May 12
Please Contact the Members of the Assembly Appropriations Committee Today!
On Wednesday, May 12, the Assembly Appropriations Committee will consider Assembly Bill 1934.
AB1934 is a blatant attack on the self-defense rights of law-abiding Californians. Simply put, this legislation would outlaw the open carrying of a handgun for self-defense.
Please contact the members of the Assembly Appropriations Committee TODAY and strongly voice your opposition to AB1934. Contact information can be found below. Also, please contact your Assembly Member in opposition to this bill. Their contact information can be found here.
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Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat May 08 2010, 01:47PM
My Mossberg lost its virginity today. I put 21 shells of various size shot, including 1 round of OO buck and my son fired off about a dozen too. She is all nice and clean, lubricated and ready for the next action. We also fired 100 rounds from his SLR 7.62. That thing is pretty darn accurate, we were hitting the target at 200 yards without a scope.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sat May 08 2010, 10:17PM
Where did she loose her virginity? Mitsubishi/Cushenbury, Arrastre #1 or #2 or ?
If you went to either the Cushenbury or Arrastre shooting sites, how bad were the roads leading up to the shooting areas?
I am planning a family shooting outing to one of these sites and I have not been able to find the time to scout the roads. Two of our troop do not have 4X4 or high clearance vehicles so any info on their condition would be greatly appreciated.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun May 09 2010, 08:06AM
RubiJ, we were shooting at Burro Canyon, which is north of Azusa. I am at my home dth. Burro Canyon is a shooting club facility about 10 miles up the road from Azusa. They have 4 areas that are designated for hand gun, rifle, shotgun and I'm not sure what the other one was. Benches and tables etc. Actually a nice place and a short drive for me. The only drawback is the $10 fee. ( Heading up today because the wife wants Mother's Day dinner in Big Bear.)
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Mon May 10 2010, 03:07AM
Thanks, Socalman, I was hoping that Burro Canyon was a Big Bear shooting site that only the locals knew about.
Don't know how long the Burro Canyon site has been around but I shoot a site in the Azusa area that had a dedicated 300 yd range back for members only in the early 80's, maybe it's the same site.
Re: Gun ownership
skypros, Mon May 10 2010, 07:07AM
New Gun show coming to the History Channel
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed May 12 2010, 02:18PM
RubyJ, the range you shot at in the 80's may have been the San Gabriel Valley Gun Club. It was open to non-members, took my son up there once when he was pretty small. It was closed down a few years ago because some developer built homes that could have been in the line of fire. The owners knew when they bought but they won and the gun club closed. It is infamous for being the range where Sirhan Sirhan practiced the day before assassinating Robert F. Kennedy.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 12 2010, 05:15PM
I remember there was a rang that was quite a way up and in a narrow canyon. Don't remember if you drove in or had to walk. I don't remember very much parking on the road It was above where the roads split off but I don't remembr on which fork it was
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed May 12 2010, 08:42PM
I used to shoot in Burro Canyon in the 60's and early 70's. There wasn't any "range" there then. Hiking way up that canyon led to some good hunting spots, but a lot of really steep and hard to navigate terrain.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat May 15 2010, 06:23PM
Anyone here into reloading 12 ga. shotgun shells? I would be happy to donate my used 2 3/4" shells. Send me a PM if you want them. First answer gets them.
Re: Gun ownership
Deb Doodah, Sat May 15 2010, 08:31PM
The boys went to the Sportsmans Club today to do a little target shooting. They said it was nice and only $8. Just in case anyone is interested.
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Sun May 16 2010, 06:59PM
If you become a member, the price is only $5
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Mon May 17 2010, 10:56PM
Stoped at the local gun store the other day to pick up some amo, an while I was their I asked about some exploding targets. For $20 bucks I got enough Tannerite to make a dozen. pretty neat stuff makes a hella of a bang. check it out, go to google an put in tannerite or exploding targets. you can have it mail ordered. BSF
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue May 18 2010, 06:52AM
that stuff is so cool! and it's legal too! it will not go bang unless hit with enough force so if you drop it no bang.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue May 18 2010, 01:40PM
Sounds like fun!
Re: Gun ownership
TIREGUY, Tue May 18 2010, 02:00PM
I haven't read all of the 79 previous pages. But I must comment.
Cars are deadly weapons. They kill people everyday (or should I say people kill people with them). Does that warrant taking them away from the general law abiding legal citizens of our country? No.
Proper training is a must for owning a gun. Just like driving a car. You should be able to own and carry guns with the proper training.
If you make owning a gun illegal then the only people armed will be cops and criminals. If criminals know that the general public is unarmed then that will embolden them. If a criminal knows that any one of these guys standing here in the 7/11 they are about to rob then it just might be a deterrent.
Cops and law abiding citizens need to work together. The criminals are the bad element not the weapons.
I was just out in Arizona over the weekend. I was surprised to find that now in AZ you can carry a loaded concealed weapon. NO PERMIT NEEDED. Ak and VT also have followed suit with this.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun May 23 2010, 10:57AM
working on it, wait.....
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun May 23 2010, 11:04AM
Ok let's try this again.
Gun safty is very important to me and 99.999999% of gun owners.
Please if you own a gun teach your family how to safly handle them. remember a gun is always loaded and should be handled as such, to always point it in a safe direction and to know what is behind what you are going to shoot at.
Be safe out there and lets enjoy the sports of target shooting and hunting.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon May 24 2010, 06:33PM
Anyone have any experience with the .327 federal? In the reading I've done it seems to fall between the 9mm and .357 in stopping power with much less recoil then the .357. For practice you can also use the regular .32 cartridge. The one down side I see is that at the present time only 3 makers for the ammo.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon May 24 2010, 06:36PM
Yes I own 2 well my daughter took control of one so I guess I have one now.
I love it!
She uses .32 mags in hers and i use full power .327 magnums in mine.
If you want to try it out let me know.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue May 25 2010, 10:54PM
I am sure the gun owners here know that come 2011 our laws regarding ammo sales will change and not for the better. I have been ordering from an online service (Cheaperthandirt.com) and they now have a notice that as of Jan. 2011 they will not ship to California.
I am beginning to look for 38 ammo to use in the 357 (haven't bought it yet, still seeking best price) and would like input from more knowledgeable people here about various brands and loads for practice and home defense. I will probably use 357 for home defense or possibly +P loads.
Next question, what is 38 S & W and can it be used in a 357?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue May 25 2010, 11:24PM
38 ammo can be fired in 357. 357 ammo cannot be fired in 38
S & W stands for Smith & Wesson.
Not sure what exactly you are asking about. Ammunition?, or a pistol?
In most peoples mind 38 referes to the old 2 inch revolver that cops used to carry untill they began to switch to semi automatics
I think today if I were looking I would buy either a 9mm, or a 45 Glock or a similar quality automatic. S&W has always stood for quality
In my .380 I have a mixed load of hollowp oint and reuglar lead. would probably mix in teflon if I had them. Armor piercing would be nice if it were available ? but .380 would be a little light.
It is a little tough to switch ammo on the fly so better in my mind to put everything on target hoping one will sink in
hollow points will really ruin their day. There are all kinds of things to do to ammo to increase mortality. mercury, dum-dum's. All not needed as much as in the old days as they sell ammo for almost any use today
on your shotgun an old trick was to cut most of the way through the shell near the wad to allow the entirefrot half of the shell to leave the barrell to make a tighter pattern, or even enter the tarket befor emitting pellets. But you can also buy slugs for the shotgun
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Wed May 26 2010, 07:36AM
S&W .38 revolver is similar in size to a 9mm but different case .38 specials (longer brass case) can be shot in a .357 .380 is for semi-automatics and then there is a regular .38 that is used in older guns that is short or long.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed May 26 2010, 08:12AM
I have been buying from two online places;
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
If you look online on these two sites you can find different sales on .38's, also you can find different "in stock" all the time. They don't have bad prices if you look. Also, they send me $10 coupons all the time.
Little known fact; if you are desperate for a box of 38's, the Butcher Block that is in Lucerne Valley on the main road has a few boxes once in a while (they sell ammo). A few weeks ago I bought a box there and it was $21 (which is a few dollars high but in case you are desperate, and no shipping).
I always keep my eyes open for .38s and I will post here if I see a great deal that is in stock.
Good luck ! Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed May 26 2010, 09:03AM
Also it has been planted in my head (scary) that a road trip to AZ, or NV is an alternative to the high price of ammo and a away around the law that is not yet in effect, and if we go to AZ we can show them our support for their wanting to enforce the Federal law!
So if we were to pool our money we could save on gas, food and ammo and get away from thewifes (opps did not say that out loud!!!) all we need is a plan.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed May 26 2010, 09:33AM
Hey, you know what? I can do all of that right here, cozy at home in OryGUN, no sales tax either.
C'mon up and visit for a while, its all the rage! Buy some ammo while you are here and I'll show you a great time!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed May 26 2010, 09:48AM
Luny, if you were closer I'd have said we got a place to crash and bud to go use some of the ammo with. but, AZ is like 3 hours away and you're a day to get there and we want instant gratification.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed May 26 2010, 10:40AM
I go to Az. 2 or 3 times a year to visit my dad and some friends. I'll let everyone know when I go next (won't be for several months). Thanks for the good suggestion there !
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed May 26 2010, 10:48AM
Here is a great site with great info on everything about guns and ammo !!!
[Click Here]
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed May 26 2010, 12:14PM
Good site Rod, but remember it is writen by shooters who may stretch the truth
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed May 26 2010, 01:16PM
True, but don't forget shooters are like fisherman
S T R E T C H I N G . . . . . . . . . .
:-) Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed May 26 2010, 01:17PM
80-Year-Old Chicago Man Kills Armed Home Invader
An 80-year-old Chicago man shot and killed an armed man who broke into his two-story house in a pre-dawn home invasion Wednesday on the city's West Side.
At about 5:20 a.m., the homeowner and his wife, also in her 80s, discovered the intruder entering their home by a back door. In a struggle at their doorstep, the intruder fired his revolver but was struck in the chest and died of his wound, police said.
"It's a good thing they had a gun, or they might be dead," said Curtis Thompson, who lives next door to the couple, the Chicago Sun-Times reported.
Neighbors described the elderly couple, who both walk with canes, as pillars of the community in Garfield Park, where home invasions have been all too frequent.
Their neighbor, Shaquite Johnson, told MyFoxChicago that the two are "heroes" for fighting off the attacker — and that the shooting means there is "one less criminal" walking the streets.
"They don't bother no one, so why would anyone do that to them?" she said.
Relatives of the couple told the Sun Times that the man is an Army veteran, his wife a former nurse. Police said neither the man nor the woman was injured in the attack.
The assailant, who was described by police as being in his 30s, was found slumped on the back doorstep of the couple's house, removed four hours after the shooting, the Sun Times reported.
No charges have been filed against the homeowner, but Chicago currently has a statute outlawing the possession of handguns. Its legality is currently being decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.
A high-profile Chicago attorney has already stepped forward offering to represent the man pro bono if he faces charges for possessing a weapon.
"Self defense isn't just a right, it's a duty," said attorney Joel Brodsky. "If this man is prosecuted for saving his own life it's not just a travesty, it's justice turned inside out."
Its crazy that the guy would probably be DEAD if he didn't break the unconstitutional, unAMERICAN law prohibiting him from possessing a handgun in his own home.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu May 27 2010, 08:52AM
I suppose I should have been more clear. My question was about .38 ammunition. I plan on buying the 357 revolver but use the 38 ammo for practice. What brand or line within the brand has been the best value. A box of 50 that sells for $10 might sound good but if you have 8 duds it certainly isn't a good deal.
the other point I was trying to make is that purchasing of ammo will be much more difficult in Calif. in 2011, so why not stock up now?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu May 27 2010, 09:32AM
SoCal, every time i stock up i go shooting, so my stock gets low!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu May 27 2010, 09:48AM
most ammo I have ever bought has been good quality.
The only exception has been in 22 caliber. I have learned to buy the best name I could.
. I would shoot mostly 357 so you can get used to it. At least at first
You might find someone who reloads.
We ran into some guys at cactus flats and I bought some shells for my 357 from them. I am careful to keep some around. I have no idea what they put in those things but it is like a cannon with them. Could be c-4 for all I know. but it sure packs a punch
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu May 27 2010, 08:01PM
got an email from a friend who's wife works in the LA DA's office, she sent him this;
Just letting my friends know.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun May 30 2010, 05:18PM
Is there shotgun shooting at the BBVSportsman's Club? I am not into skeet, just want to check on some various loads with Mr. Mossberg. Plan to go over at 10 AM Monday.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue Jun 01 2010, 02:16PM
Went up to the BBV Sportsman's club range yesterday. It appears to be pretty good. Target lines at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. No shotgun shooting except for trap and I was not prepared for trap as I had a wide variety of loads with me so I did not shoot. Covered benches for shooting and a small store to buy ammo that is not overpriced for Cali retail. The supply is somewhat limited but the most common ammo is there. The cost to shoot if you are a member is $5, 8 if you are a non-member. A year's membership is $35.00 and allows you to take a family member for the club price. I will return when I have either me old .22 single shot or a new revolver to work with. Also NO STEEL CORE AMMO ALLOWED per the US Forest Service.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Tue Jun 01 2010, 02:30PM
Socalman, if you ask them they will let you shoot (test out) a few rounds of shotgun in between the trap shooting. I've done it and I've seen a few others do it. Just tell them you want to test out your shotgun and a few rounds, they are pretty nice there.
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue Jun 01 2010, 10:39PM
Okay, I know the .22 is not a good choice for self defense/home protection. However, if one ONLY has the .22 around what round should be loaded? Should it be the round with the greatest weight or highest speed? If you look at many .45 loads the the speed is often in the area of 850fps but that is one large piece of metal that stops the attacker. I have seen some 22LR with a weight of 65 gr versus the typical low 30's weights.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 02 2010, 06:54AM
HP is the best round and a 22 is better then nothing, for one reason it has light recoil so you can get moree shots off on target faster.
And remember a 22 can kill so don't discount it as a HD round
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed Jun 02 2010, 10:37AM
I like these:
CCI "Stinger" 32-gr. or Remington "Yellow Jacket" 33-gr. hollowpoints
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 02 2010, 11:58AM
Yes CCI is good, and they have a higher power one too, 1600 fps, they are great!! with a little kick
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Jun 02 2010, 12:47PM
22's are a lethal round. if you have the right pistol can be silenced to just a whisper. Choice of many low man powered teams to silence the enemy quickly and quietly. Suffice it to say that a round in the head will bounce around much easier then a larger round that may go through and do less damage.
professional killers use them for the same reason
don't over analize things. When it comes down to it all the numbers go out the window and it becomes very simple.
it all comes down to
They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue"
Isn't that just like a censored (italian)? Brings a knife to a gun fight."
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Jun 02 2010, 01:41PM
I love my 22s. Easy to shoot. Fun. Good plinkers.
Never hope I need to use one in a "situation". I still like 9mm though... and the Russian canon.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Jun 02 2010, 02:34PM
I think that CCI now call them "segmented hollow points", these rounds break up into three seperate parts causing a lot of internal damage.
Back when they were known as "Quik Shoks" (?) I made the mistake of shooting a ground squirrel with them from Ruger 10/22 and let's just say that the squirrel's head had seen better days!
I can only imagine what two or three well placed shots would do to a perp.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Jun 02 2010, 04:47PM
Do any of y'alls like Nosler boolits? Well...they had a MAJOR malfunction at their plant here in Bend this afternoon...
Fire, explosion reported at Nosler in Bend
Bend Police and fire officials are on the scene of a fire and explosion at Nosler Inc. A company official said no one was hurt, and all employees are accounted for. Police are asking people to avoid the area surrounding the company, at 107 S.W. Columbia St.
The fire started around 2:15 p.m.
No further details are available at this time.
Amazing that nobody was hurt!!!
Click to Enlarge.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Jun 02 2010, 04:51PM
BEND, Ore. -- An explosion and fire rocked a portion of the Nosler Inc. bullet manufacturing plant in southwest Bend Wednesday afternoon, prompting evacuation and closure of streets in the area; despite a blast felt for several blocks, all 100 workers apparently were accounted for.
The fire was reported initially as a smoke report shortly after 2 p.m. at the facility at 107 SW Columbia St., which was evacuated. By 2:15 p.m., there were reports that an explosion had destroyed part of the building. But by 3 p.m., reports from the scene were that all workers on scene at the time of the blast had been accounted for.
A company spokesman said he was told that around 2 p.m., work was under way in the ballistics tunnel, a testing area for ammunition, when there was a flash, followed moments later by a massive explosion.
Fire crews were reporting no flames visible and that all were out of the plant, though one person reportedly suffered smoke inhalation and a thorough search was planned, to be sure all got out.
Bend Fire did a personnel callback to ensure adequate staffing and called in Redmond Fire for mutual aid to cover a station with an ambulance.
About 100 people work in the Nosler facility, a company founded in the late 1940s by John Nosler. Witnesses said there was a flash in the ballistics-testing tunnel area of the facility, and everybody apparently got out before the blast hit.
One nearby resident described the blast as like "feeling a bomb inside your house." After her house shook violently, she looked out to see a huge plume of orange smoke that she couldn't see through.
Barb Gonzalez at first thought it was an earthquake, when her house was jolted by the blast. "This one felt like a 5.5 (magnitude) jolt", said the survivor of the 1994 Northridge quake. Her second thought was an explosion.
Bella Blackney recounted: "All of a sudden the house shakes, and the glass is rumbling in all the windows, visibly - all the glass shook. Really intense. For a second I thought a bomb went off."
Bend Fire called in a special operations team to go through the rubble, which apparently buried at least one evacuated worker's car in debris.
People several blocks away said the explosion rattled their office windows.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 02 2010, 05:46PM
Holly cow!
I wonder if it was a build up of unburnt powder in the test tunnel? At the indoor range I use DTH every now and then there would be a small flash fire on the floor of the range from the unburnt powder.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed Jun 02 2010, 05:52PM
Are there still CCI Mini-Mags?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 02 2010, 05:53PM
yes, the "shorts" are great plinkers
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Jun 03 2010, 05:34PM
get involved 2 alerts from NRA on California laws
one to register rifles/ And the no open carry law is moving quickly.
call, write letter's and vote
Long Gun Registration One Step Closer to Law in California
Your State Senator Needs to Hear Your Opposition to
This and Two Other Anti-Gun Bills Immediately!
Today, Thursday, June 3, the California Assembly passed Assembly Bill 1810 and Assembly Bill 2223. Both bills now join Assembly Bill 1934 in the Senate.
AB1810 was passed by a 42-29 vote. In short, this bill would establish a registration system, similar to the one currently in place for handguns, for all newly-acquired long guns. Under AB1810, the make, model and serial number of the firearm as well as the identifying information of the purchaser would be recorded and kept on file by the California Attorney General's office.
If AB1810 were enacted, violent criminals would continue doing what they do now - obtain firearms through illegal means. This bill would not decrease crime but will rather have disastrous effects on the already financially unstable Golden State. AB1810 would impose additional burdens on California's taxpayers to maintain the registration system as well as on the state's licensed firearms dealers, small businesses who already deal with extensive business requirements.
One simply needs to look at Canada, a nation with draconian firearms registration, to see the results - billions in cumulative administrative costs, annual cost overruns, no clear substantiation of public safety benefits, unjust prosecution, and a bureaucratic complexity that daunts those willing to comply. Ironically, California is considering a new registration scheme as Canada is considering doing away with its system.
AB2223, passed by a vote of 46-28, would outlaw the use of lead shot when shooting or hunting in state-run wildlife management areas. There is no scientific evidence justifying this proposed ban. It is intended only to discourage hunting in California and that is why the Humane Society of the United States is in full support.
Simply put, AB1934 would outlaw the open carrying of a handgun for self-defense. This bill is a blatant attack on the self-defense rights of law-abiding Californians. It is a knee-jerk reaction by anti-gun legislators to punish citizens for engaging in the legal act of openly carrying an unloaded handgun. In reality, the open carrying of firearms by law-abiding citizens is forced by California's unfair concealed carry law, which allows some citizens from some counties to receive a permit to carry, while their neighbors in the next county are denied that basic right for political, not public safety, reasons.
These bills are very serious threats to the rights of California's law-abiding gun owners and must be defeated. Please contact your State Senator NOW and urge them to oppose AB1810, AB2223, and AB1934. Contact information can be found [Click Here]
Bill to Outlaw Open Carry Passes Assembly, Heads to Senate
Please Contact Your State Senator Today!
Yesterday, Tuesday, June 1, the California Assembly passed Assembly Bill 1934 by a vote of 41-25. AB1934 now heads to Senate for consideration.
Simply put, AB1934 would outlaw the open carrying of a handgun for self-defense. This bill is a blatant attack on the self-defense rights of law-abiding Californians.
AB1934 is a knee-jerk reaction by anti-gun legislators to punish citizens for engaging in the legal act of openly carrying an unloaded handgun. In reality, the open carrying of firearms by law-abiding citizens is forced by California's unfair concealed carry law, which allows some citizens from some counties to receive a permit to carry, while their neighbors in the next county are denied that basic right for political, not public safety, reasons.
Please contact your State Senator TODAY and respectfully urge them to oppose AB1934. Contact information for your Assembly Member can be found
.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Jun 04 2010, 04:08AM
Its time to hold a rally on Sacramento with all participants holding pitchforks, buckets of tar and bags of feathers to tell these "Adam Henrys" how we feel about their performance!
What are doing do next, outlaw pitchforks, tar and feathers!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Jun 04 2010, 06:58AM
The strange thing is they can't do anything to save themselves if there ever was a revolution.
I heard a story a long time ago that in a civil unrest (revolution) everyone armed themselves with what they could. Down to a spoon. With that spoon and the few real weapons you went into battle. As it goes on you find a better weapon and pass the spoon to someone with nothing. Weapons become available as time goes on.
It is impossible that the "masters" can defend themselves once the balance has tipped.
The concern is what happens after the revolution?
In today's world I don't think we could survive it.
Election day is next Tuesday. the ballot makes a lot more sense then the bullet.
I will sit down with over an inch of material to make my choices today.
I have put it off so long I will have to carry it to a voting site instead of the mail.
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Mon Jun 07 2010, 09:22AM
Thought you guys would enjoy this picture of the latest motorcycle seat in Texas.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Sat Jun 12 2010, 08:48AM
Anyone want to go to the range (Big Bear) today and shoot some trap ??? I havn't been there yet this year. I'm going in around 10am today ! Let me know.....
Rod
Follow up: Went and had a great time. shot 3 rounds, 18, 9, 19 ... don't know what happened the 2nd round, I think I was intimidated by a big-bosomed woman (@) (@) that was hitting almost all of the clays. Go figure.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Jun 12 2010, 10:49AM
wish I could make it but to far.
You guys might look into joining the sportsmans club. It used to be a really good thing. I think it has lost a lot of members over the years. They did a lot of projects to help wildlife over the years, and threw a great picnic every year.
Chuck Thomas would donate the meat from his hunts. It was always a great time. They gave out fishing trophy's for the biggest fish caught. I won two on year for Bass, and Bluegill
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Jun 12 2010, 04:04PM
I have been thinking about joining the Sportsman's Club when I get up at the end of the month. My brother was a member while he was living in BBC.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Jun 12 2010, 04:59PM
Socalman, I will be joining too, then I won't have to drive down to the BLM on the weekends unless there is a lot of us going.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed Jun 16 2010, 04:31PM
Anyone have experience with the Taurus 625? It is also called the "Tracker" It is a 7 shot .357. I know Taurus had some problems in the past, but from what I have read they are doing a great job recently. I am considering this firearm with a 4 inch barrel. Apparently the recoil is barely noticed with regular 38's and is still quite mild with .38+P.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 16 2010, 04:59PM
Nope but I have an 8 shot S&W 357, still kicks but is nice to shoot.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Jun 16 2010, 06:03PM
I have a 7 shot S&W with a 6" barrel, it has a small kick, but is very comfortable and accurate, or maybe it's me
A lot of fun to shoot!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 16 2010, 07:59PM
sounds like we need to get together and pistol wip some paper.....................
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Jun 16 2010, 08:55PM
I have a 19+1 shot Springfield...
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Jun 17 2010, 06:59AM
as*
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Jun 17 2010, 07:36AM
I won't be up the hill again until the end of the month. I leave tomorrow for some concerts in D.C., returning the 24th. Probably during the week to start some paint prep work. Would love to do some shooting.
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Thu Jun 17 2010, 05:29PM
The best of all worlds: Marine's, Golf and Guns. [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Jun 19 2010, 07:21PM
want want want WANT!
[Click Here]
WickedLasers Unveils "Lightsaber" Powerful Enough to Set People on Fire
Jason Mick (Blog) - June 10, 2010 3:23 PM
WickedLasers Spyder III Pro Arctic Laser (Source: WickedLasers)
The product comes with a warning that the weapons-grade laser can burn and/or blind people or animals. (Source: WickedLasers)
The laser retails for a mere $200 an is perhaps a good self-defense tool in urban areas. (Source: WickedLasers)It goes without saying that this product is not safe for children
With recent advances in lasers, many have fantasized about creating "real life lightsabers". Many military commanders have fantasized about creating portable blasters along the lines of those portrayed in fictional workers like Star Trek and Star Wars. The Spyder III Pro Arctic laser from WickedLasers can be seen perhaps as the culmination of those efforts and perhaps the first consumer laser weapon.
The laser is built with a diode from Casio's new mercury-free Green Slim projectors which ironically have a somewhat blue tint. The laser is rated at 1 watt of power and retails for a mere $200 USD.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Jun 19 2010, 07:23PM
Going to the sportsmans club tomorrow with my daughter for some shooting anyone else going?
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Sat Jun 19 2010, 07:51PM
BKAP, what time you going???
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 20 2010, 09:30AM
hey rod, were going around 10:30 be there about 1-2 hours
Hope to see you there.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 20 2010, 05:24PM
Targets from today, me on left daughter on right.
Spent good time with her!
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Sun Jun 20 2010, 06:26PM
Bkap, I forgot you were there.... I was sooting trap there around 11-12:30 and forgot to look for you. It was a nice day. Maybe next time we can hook up.
Later, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Mtngoat John⭐, Sun Jun 20 2010, 09:15PM
Unfortunately Bkap is dyslexic, good shooting H.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Jun 21 2010, 06:43AM
I thought that H. was just putting them through the same hole over and over...but Bruce had to make a new hole for every bullet.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:15AM
yea thats right You, I can't hit the same hole twice!!!! 
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:20AM
Sheesh, if you're shooting a bad guy, don't you WANT to make fresh new holes?
Awesome shootin' Bruce! We'll get H. with the program soon enuff...
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:21AM
Practice is all she needs, and with time will improve.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:25AM
No doubt! She can probably out shoot me.
I was just joking that she needs to learn to punch new holes instead of reusing the same bullet holes over and over...
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:31AM
come on down and we'll go out shooting!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:41AM
My gun isn't legal in Commiefornia, silly! C'mon up here and we'll have more fun! We have a great shooting area about 10 mins. from the house.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Jun 22 2010, 10:20PM
California’s Long Gun Registration Bill
Scheduled for a Hearing on Tuesday, June 29
Please Contact the Members of the Senate Public Safety Committee Today!
Assembly Bill 1810 is scheduled to be considered by the Senate Public Safety Committee on Tuesday, June 29.
AB1810 would establish a registration system, similar to the one currently in place for handguns, for all newly-acquired long guns. Under AB1810, the make, model and serial number of the firearm as well as the identifying information of the purchaser would be recorded and kept on file by the California Attorney General’s office.
If AB1810 were enacted, violent criminals would continue doing what they do now – obtain firearms through illegal means. This bill would not decrease crime but will rather have disastrous effects on the already financially unstable Golden State. AB1810 would impose additional burdens on California’s taxpayers to maintain the registration system as well as on the state’s licensed firearms dealers, small businesses who already deal with extensive business requirements.
One simply needs to look at Canada, a nation with draconian firearms registration, to see the results – billions in cumulative administrative costs, annual cost overruns, no clear substantiation of public safety benefits, unjust prosecution, and a bureaucratic complexity that daunts those willing to comply. Ironically, California is considering a new registration scheme as Canada is considering doing away with its system.
Please contact the members of the Senate Public Safety Committee TODAY and strongly voice your opposition to AB1810. Contact information can be found below.
SENATE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE:
State Senator Mark Leno (Chair)
(916) 651-4003
senator.leno©senate.ca.gov
State Senator Dave Cogdill (Vice-Chair)
(916) 651-4014
State Senator Gilbert Cedillo
(916) 651-4022
State Senator Loni Hancock
(916) 651-4009
State Senator Robert Huff
(916) 651-4029
State Senator Darrell Steinberg
(916) 651-4006
State Senator Roderick Wright
(916) 651-4025
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed Jun 23 2010, 01:27PM
I think bkap may have been shooting from 7 yards and the daughter from 50! I agree, fresh holes in bad guys are good, but with the proper placement on shot #1, why waste ammo?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 23 2010, 06:52PM
OK socal! I say you show up there and we have a shoot out!! loser buys the soda!!
Re: Gun ownership
Mtngoat John⭐, Wed Jun 23 2010, 07:23PM
Seven yards? Heck, I've seen him miss from seven feet.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Jun 23 2010, 09:51PM
Keep in mind that most gunfights occur at a range of zero to seven FEET.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Jun 24 2010, 07:00AM
you really want to get in on this MGJ? we have a video of you, remember........
and ....
Oh and I've hit seven feet before, people are just so slow to lift them
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Jun 26 2010, 08:19AM
I am about ready to put my $$ down for a Taurus Tracker .357 with 4" barrel. I would like the same thing in S & W but it is another $150.00. I can see and feel a slight difference (fit, finish, smoothness of trigger & extractor) between the two. When I compared to the Ruger GP 357 the differences just were not evident. The Ruger is about $60 more. From what I have read, Taurus HAD problems in quality some years back but they have been solved. Feedback from the folks here would be appreciated.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Jun 26 2010, 08:55AM
Taurus is ok but one of the best is the S&W if you want to shoot a 686 S&W let me know, or a few other mdls of S&W, Ruger is built like a tank and will not break, a nice trigger job and it is a great deal for the money, as long as you are not buying a Rossi you are doing good, Rossi is only good for tossing in the ocean in my book.
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Sat Jun 26 2010, 10:49AM
Spend the extra money and buy the Smith or Ruger (I'd buy Ruger, but thats just me:)
Taurus just makes copies of everyone elses guns.
They're quality is better than in the past, but I like the real versions, not copies.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Jun 26 2010, 11:22PM
No doubt in my mind the S&W is the best. I felt it was a toss up on the Ruger and Taurus. One aspect of the Taurus I liked over the Ruger was the orange on the front sight, though I suppose I could always use some nail polish. The grip on the Taurus is quite different but I am ambivalent about that, though some reviewers loved the Taurus grip.
On the S&W the trigger was smoother and lighter then either the Ruger or Taurus. In single action the Taurus needed less weight to pull the trigger while in double action I felt it was a little heavier.
If only I could have all 3 guns for a few days and run about 100 rounds through each! Like I said, the S&W seemed the better gun over all, but I am not that sure it was $150 better. Decisions, decisions!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Jun 27 2010, 09:55AM
Anyone notice this in the news??
[Click Here]
My two cents on the previous discussion : Sturdy, strong and METAL. I don't like graphite or composite weapons (for Pistols). I like solid, all metal weapons because they can take a beating and keep on clicking. Well, maybe that should be "capping"
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 27 2010, 12:07PM
Saldana needs to be voted out, she has made an issue of a non-issue. And when talking about it she sounds like she is very uninformed about gun laws.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 27 2010, 07:15PM
EDITORIAL: Gun grabbers treat criminals as victims
Groups appalled at use of concealed firearms in self-defense
The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the Violence Policy Center (VPC) are peddling the notion that concealed-handgun permit holders are a danger to society. Last month, the center released a report claiming that in the past three years, 166 people were killed by holders of concealed-weapon permits. A closer look at the evidence suggests that many of the so-called victims of gun violence were criminals. Because more than 6 million Americans hold permits, it is important to set the record straight.
As one of the most populous states with a right-to-carry law, Florida has the most concealed-handgun permits. Between Oct. 1, 1987, and May 31, the state issued them to 1.8 million individuals. So far, just 167 permits have been revoked over any type of firearms-related violation. Most of those involved trivial, nonviolent infractions. To put that figure into perspective, the annual revocation rate is a minuscule 0.00017 percent, with just three revocations since January 2008. More people are killed every year by falling vending machines than by holders of a concealed-weapon permit.
You wouldn't know that from the rhetoric of the gun-control groups, which portray Florida as a dangerous place to live because of its laws. According to the VPC report, the Sunshine State accounted for 17 of the 96 "killer" permit holders nationwide, far more than any other state.
A recent Fox News investigation shot holes in the study. No charges were ever brought in seven of the Florida cases. One case clearly did not involve a permit holder - the person was, in fact, charged with illegally carrying a concealed handgun. Two cases that are still pending apparently involved self-defense, with one local newspaper account suggesting that the permit holder had a "strong case" to show that he had acted properly. Another case involved the accidental discharge of a firearm. The gun grabbers score all of these incidents as kills, but at least nine of them are examples of right-to-carry laws being used by permit holders to protect themselves and their families.
Three cases did result in "convictions," but they hardly represent clear-cut examples. One involved an accidental discharge and a conviction for involuntary manslaughter. In another case, a convicted felon sparked the incident by confronting the permit holder. According to the prosecutor, the permit holder "was in some way defending himself during an escalating altercation between the men caught on the security video" and that, "People can look at that tape and interpret it two or three different ways." His conviction rested on the question of whether he had done enough to avoid the confrontation.
The Brady Campaign and the Violence Policy Center show their desperation by twisting legitimate examples of self-defense into crimes. The simple fact is that most gun owners are law-abiding citizens. Suggesting that burglars, rapists and other hardened criminals are "victims" of permit holders is a stretch, even for these groups. The real statistics show that America is a safer place thanks to more of its citizens having a right to protect themselves and their families.
© Copyright 2010 The Washington Times, LLC. Click here for reprint permission.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Jun 28 2010, 07:44AM
Supreme Court issued it's decision today on the our rights to keep and own guns. The decision was 5 to 4 in support of our constitutional rights.
This should put many of the anti-gun people to rest with regards to their proposed laws to prevent our rights.
Weeeeeeeee.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Jun 28 2010, 07:47AM
thats good but we still have Californis after us on several cases
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 28 2010, 08:19AM
only the begining, now more work to remove dumb laws
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 28 2010, 10:06AM
this is in response to those that claim guns kill more people then anything else, as a side note unlawfully owned guns (by those that should not have them such as criminals) kill more people then guns owned by law abiding people, and the laws on the books only keep law-abiding citizens from owning guns.
Those law-abiding gun owners have saved many lives by defending themselves and others.
I hope with the ruling handed down today that more will be interested in defending themselves and what they own.
this is just on accidental deaths not drive bys, or planed murder, those will be higher of course.
Firearms are involved in 0.5% of accidental deaths nationally, compared to motor vehicles (37%), poisoning (22%), falls (17%), suffocation (5%), drowning (2.9%), fires (2.5%), medical mistakes (1.7%), environmental factors (1.3%), and pedal cycles (0.7%). Among children: motor vehicles (41%), suffocation (21%), drowning (15%), fires (8%), pedal cycles (2%), poisoning (2%), falls (1.9%), environmental factors (1.5%), firearms (1.1%) and medical mistakes (1%).
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 28 2010, 10:19AM
Comments from various boards;
This is the best time in the world to be a Cop or any Law Enforcement Officer. My entire family is made up of Police Officers, and report after report comes out that municipalities, counties, and states, that extend gun ownership and the 2nd Amendment Rights have a DRAMATIC DECREASE in the crime rate.
People need to realize that the Criminals will always have guns, whether they are legal or illegal. (Its just another law the criminals will break!)
When you extend the 2nd Amendment to the Law Abiding Citizens, the crime rate always drops and the criminals will always avoid the gun-toting conservative and target the ignorant peace happy commie liberal.
Enjoy your rights America! Get your CCW Permit Today!
Of *COURSE* the drafters of the US Constitution desired to explicitly give out rights often denied in the 18th Century, especially
the right of Governments to have Armies!!
So they made a Law that the Government shall not deprive the Government of the Right to an Army.
Sure. What an idiotic argument. A Militia is a band of citizens, armed, and with the purpose of guaranteeing FREEDOM. An Army is armed and obedient to the will of their Bosses. Pol Pot had an Army. Adolf Hitler had an Army. Neither had an individual right to keep and bear arms.
The Bill of Rights is intended to apply to individual Americans.
My concern is with the four justices who dissented. Citizens having weapons formed militias to defeat the British. Bearing arms has always been a man’s right! The 2d Amendment was codified to reaffirm that right so no government could confiscate our weapons.
“An Armed Society is a Polite society”
… Hmm … I wonder why?
And this from someone that clearly does not understand what it means;
No offense, but the Constitution was written during a time where everyone felt they had to protect themselves from each other, in order to survive.
It was also written during a time when America was starting to fight for independence from the British in 1812.
If you think Racist violence is alive today, try differentiating between a British Citizen and an American Citizen.
Everyone was gun happy back then, and it eventually started a war between nations, obviously, and 75 years later, it started another war between each other, i.e. Civil War.
The word “live”, was derogatory back then, as it was more common practice to “survive” from each other.
We need to learn from the past, and well, Grow Up and Evolve.
Today, we had built our protection through education, WITHOUT GUNS. It’s been a rough road to build this protection, but so far it works.
People do not need to live in fear within their own neighborhoods anymore.
The Constitution was written to preserve that fear.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Jun 28 2010, 07:15PM
I am happy for the victory but it is downright frightening that 4 members of the US Supreme Court voted to allow Chicago to VIOLATE the Constitution of the United States.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Jun 28 2010, 07:36PM
I know it should not be a concern. But is there politics involved where some may vote no that they may do to keep it close on purpose?
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Jun 30 2010, 03:13AM
Unfortunately over my 19+ years of working alongside LEOs, I have run in to way too many LEOs and DAs that express a similar sentiment.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Jul 01 2010, 05:40PM
Mayor Daley of Chicago has proposed the nation's most restrictive gun law ever. Some people will never quit. Here is a link to an article on Yahoo news. It may not be active after a day or two.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Jul 01 2010, 06:09PM
I can't believe there still is a Mayor Daley. Seems like he has been around forever.
These laws are so stupid. There are plenty of laws on the books already. Just inforce them. and leave everyone else alone.
I think I could agree with a class before owning a weapon. Of course those who have been in military should be excluded since they have been trained.
maybe a test of laws and rights could be given to everyone .
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed Jul 07 2010, 09:26AM
Leaving in 5 minutes to go shoot trap across from the Mitsubishi plant if anyone wants to bring a shotgun and try it out I'll be there for a while.....
Rod
9:26am Wed. 7/7/2010
Re: Gun ownership
STAXX, Sun Jul 11 2010, 09:09PM
I almost hit a bear on rt38 comin' up the hill about two weeks ago.
Thinking I might need one of these babies:
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Jul 11 2010, 09:48PM
Wait, Mr. Bear...lemme dig out my kit and open the pretty yeller box...now I gotta fine the *%$#@ ammo! You're still waiting, right, Mr. Bear? Just another min...
IF it were to ever happen, it would probably be more like this...
[Click Here]
Twig snap alerts dog-walker to charging grizzly
For Soldotna fishing guide Greg Brush, the rare and precious finally arrived -- a summer day off between king and silver salmon seasons.
It was Aug. 2, a little after 11 a.m., when he headed down Dirks Lake Road, a quarter-mile from his home, taking three dogs for some exercise in preparation for hunting season. Brush talked to his animals as they walked past homes on one- to five-acre lots.
The slightest noise -- a twig snapping -- prompted Brush to glance over his shoulder. Less than 20 yards away, a brown bear was charging, "ears back, head low and motorin' full speed.
"Came with zero warning," Brush said. "No woof, no popping of the teeth, no standing up, nothing like what you think."
Brush said he wears a pistol on his walks because bears have chased his dogs in the past.
He drew a Ruger .454 Casull revolver. There was no time to aim, barely time to squeeze the trigger. He's not sure whether he got off two shots or three, but one proved fatal.
"Total luck shot," he said.
"It doesn't get any closer. He slid by me on his chin when I shot him," Brush said. "I was backpedaling as fast as I could. I wasn't even aiming. I tripped over my own feet as I pulled the trigger."
He estimated that the animal weighed 900-plus pounds, and was 15 to 20 years old. It had grass packed in its molars and little fat on its bones.
"It was starving to death and saw an opportunity," Brush said.
The encounter left the fishing guide, in his words, "a wreck -- dry heaving and hyperventilating, with some abdominal cramping."
It also left him with a problem. After state troopers came out to check the bear and determine that the shooting was legitimately in defense of life and property, Brush had to deal with the carcass. The law requires a shooter to skin the animal or take it to a taxidermist.
"So here I am with my wife and with a 10-foot brown bear on the edge of the road."
With the help of four men, he dragged it into a tilt-bed trailer and took it to Soldotna taxidermist Kenny Jones.
A couple of hours later, he returned to the taxidermist to pick up the carcass and deliver it to the dump.
"I never ever thought it would happen to me. It's always some other (guy), right? It totally wiped me out . . . by far the most emotion I have ever felt at once."
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jul 12 2010, 06:49AM
met with Socalman and let him try some of my toys, I missed the target more then he did, but had a great time meeting him and talking about guns and family. Hope to do it again soon
Re: Gun ownership
Mtngoat John⭐, Mon Jul 12 2010, 07:11AM
So, how much soda did socal drink
Re: Gun ownership
STAXX, Mon Jul 12 2010, 09:53AM
Luna.. Thanks cool story! I do hike evenings and alone, with Chloe,
[Click Here] (Bear bait)
I thought law was no gun carrying on federal forest land.
Guess it was just National Parks, and that changed this year:
[Click Here]
Could swear that I've seen signs at trail heads showing the no guns symbol...?
Maybe that was Sequoia / Kings Canyon before the change.
Can I bring a shotgun with me while cutting wood?
Also, would I need a CCW to carry a handgun, or just wear it exposed?
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Jul 12 2010, 10:10AM
Bkap is not being completely truthful, after he did sight adjustment he was nailing that target!
I found the .327 to be a very sweet gun. It would be perfect to train my wife with it using plain old .32. Then have the .327 Fed. magnum loaded for home defense.
One of the items that has caused me to shy away from the .327 is ammo availability, though since Friday night and Sat. morning I checked a number of online sources and could get a decent stock in the home in a few days.
Item #2 with the .327 is availability of the gun. Right now a .327 is made by Taurus, S&W, Reuger and Charter Arms, though only 2 models of the Reuger and one S&W are on the Calif. list of allowed guns. However I know of a store that had the .327 in stock last Wed. I may visit them later this week and take it off their inventory.
Since the gun is now being made by 4 companies that I know of, I think it may stay around. Perhaps the parent company of Federal will allow some other manufacturers to produce the .327 round and that would really be great.
My thanks to bkap, I enjoyed meeting you, and meeting some of your arsenal!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Jul 12 2010, 10:24AM
Handgunlaw.us : [Click Here]
California Page from there: [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
STAXX, Mon Jul 12 2010, 11:36AM
RTFM!
I hate it when that happens.
;-)
Thanks for the links.
peace
mgh
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Jul 16 2010, 08:59AM
I take my Glock Model 30 (.45 ACP) anytime I am in the backcountry. I am one of those that is more apprehensive of the two legged critters that I may encounter than the four legged ones! I also subscribe to "better tried by twelve than carried by six" theory!
My family and I know that a .45 ACP will not stop a bear but we hope that it buys the family some time to get out of harms way and I hope and pray that they are far enough away that they will not be able to see Dad use the last of the ten rounds on himself when the bear has started to maul and eat him!
I would prefer a 12 gauge outfitted with a combination of 3" slugs and 00 buckshot to deal with bears but it just isn't easily concealable unless you buy a SRB (Short Barreled Rifle) or illegally modify one of your own.
I'm already taking my chances by breaking the law while carrying concealed where "open carry" is not permissible, I don't need to compound the criminal offense by pissing off ATF as well!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Aug 04 2010, 12:48AM
Hey Bkap...
Tightening up them groups a little... 19 rounds at 21 feet. Looks like three of 'em kinda got away from me - looks like a flinch problem, no?
BTW, that 10 circle is 2" across.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Aug 05 2010, 08:25AM
Looks good, what were you shooting?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Aug 05 2010, 09:05AM
paper targets.......
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Aug 05 2010, 09:05AM
Springfield XDm-9, WWB (9mm, 115gr FMJ), my standard, semi-affordable practice ammo until I start reloading.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Aug 05 2010, 09:06AM
Rong, that's a cardboard box. The target just happened to get in the way.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Aug 05 2010, 02:08PM
Way to go Luna. Next time toss out a golf ball and see if you can hit it.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Aug 06 2010, 06:58AM
A question regarding buying:
I have been shopping for my first handgun and have settled on the Ruger SP 101 in .327. (Thanks BKAP!) I have found one in a "local" shop. I can shop online and find it cheaper but once I factor shipping and the dealer fee for handling it, will it be cheaper? Do all shops charge the same fee to receive a gun or is it a free market there?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Aug 06 2010, 07:04AM
socal, ask before you commit about there fees they will be different from on shop to another, good choice, now remember I change the springs in mine so the one you buy will have stiffer springs in it. My trigger was lighter then the factory will be.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Aug 06 2010, 07:05AM
and if you want help changing them I'm here to help ya.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Aug 06 2010, 07:43AM
Do you have a bat that I can borrow?
I did some "moving, stop, draw, aim & fire 2-3 rounds" as the next step - as I have been mostly working on consistent trigger pulls up to this point.
Boy, that's a whole new story! Its almost like starting all over again.
I have some DVDs by Clint Smith (Thunder Ranch) that are really, really excellent. He is also practically a neighbor - they were mailed to me from my own zip code with a handwritten note from him. His facility, Thunder Ranch, where he also has a home, is about 60 miles from here.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Aug 06 2010, 08:39AM
I'll be off the mountain for the weekend, maybe I'll do some gun shopping!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Aug 06 2010, 09:14AM
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Aug 06 2010, 12:59PM
game time;
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Aug 06 2010, 02:31PM
Uh Ohhhh! That's TOOO fun!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 05:32PM
That game's a hoot. Purchased a new 9mm dtl over the weekend, can't wait to shoot it. Will report back when I get it, the reviews on the model I bought are impeccable.
Re: Gun ownership
Craig ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 06:05PM
Picture please?
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 06:13PM
Ok, here's one of my sister and I...
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Aug 08 2010, 06:30PM
Congrats!
dtl? What's that or what exactly didja buy?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Aug 08 2010, 06:30PM
Great Benny, it's going to be a long 10 days! Let me know if/when you want to go shoot!
sportsman club or mitsu plant.
Re: Gun ownership
Craig ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 06:51PM
Is that a 5 caliber sister or a 10 caliber sister?
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 07:06PM
Naw, I have a lot going on next couple of weeks, it'll come fast... It's the new Ruger SR9, looks really clean, has a nice solid feel, it's just like the Glock 17, was a toss up between the two, Ruger happened to be on sale.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Aug 08 2010, 07:39PM
Hitting on Benny's sister?
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Aug 09 2010, 07:06AM
Benny, did you get it at Turner's? I had seen the same gun there last week and nearly went for it.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Aug 09 2010, 08:23AM
Yes.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Aug 09 2010, 08:33AM
nice looking pistola.
how much?
Re: Gun ownership
Igott Mit Uns, Tue Aug 10 2010, 10:29PM
YES YES YES i believe every home in america should have at least 1 gun per room.imagine the drop in crime.who would want to break in when they know there is a great chance of death.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Aug 11 2010, 10:16AM
to those who think we are nuts talking about guns so much here are a few places to look.
I got to thinking about a pepper box. My only expierence was with a 357 4 barrel derringer a friend had.
I have been kicking around a "volley" gun idea that would be very simple but devestating. If I ever build it I will let one of you shoot it the first time if you want?
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Aug 12 2010, 08:44AM
I know you've seen this before, but it is good to keep it in your mind about what the 2A is for and it is not Duck hunting.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Aug 12 2010, 10:08AM
some think the solution is to ban guns.
It would not have stopped this from happening. And like this woman says. If there had been a gun or two being carried this incident would not have gone the way it did
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Aug 16 2010, 07:38AM
"An armed society is a polite society." I do not know the origin of this quote but I believe it to be true. Keep in mind that the criminal and people bent on doing such things can ALWAYS get their hands on guns and without a 10 day waiting period.
I recall reading an article in the LA Times a few years ago about a particular gang member who would made a business of RENTING guns for crimes.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed Aug 18 2010, 06:14AM
Does anyone make the .22 short these days? My old single shot, bolt action .22 rifle could shoot those along with the .22 L and .22 LR. I have looked at several of the online sites and can't find any source of the short.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Wed Aug 18 2010, 07:03AM
Turners has them sometimes and if you can get the bullets with no copper jacket they make less noise than a BB gun.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Aug 18 2010, 07:05AM
I have see them at wallyworld all the time.
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Wed Aug 18 2010, 10:29PM
SoCalman: I am not trying to change your mind as to weapon of choice. I totally believe in firearms. an unarmed society will soon become slaves. a weapon for the house is a must. a person that goes out an buys a weapon that has never even shot a weapon an plans to carry it for protection needs to consider, are you ready to kill someone by accident or on purpose??? BSF
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Thu Aug 19 2010, 07:23AM
Jeweler Shoots 2 Robbery Suspects, 1 Dies
Updated: Thursday, 19 Aug 2010, 7:12 AM PDT
Published : Thursday, 19 Aug 2010, 7:12 AM PDT
Text Story by:
Associated Press
Posted by: Dennis Lovelace
Los Angeles - A Southern California jewelry store owner shot two of four robbery suspects, killing one of them, after they invaded his Wilmington business.
Los Angeles police Officer Karen Rayner says four men tried to rob Rios Jewelry on Wednesday evening and the store owner opened fire. One man is dead, another is hospitalized in critical condition and a third was arrested.
The fourth suspect fled and has eluded capture.
Detective Gus Villanueva says the Wilmington Town Square shopping area was busy with shoppers at the time of the attempted robbery.
The store owner wasn't hurt.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Aug 19 2010, 07:44AM
I would not use a .22 for home/self defense! The whole idea of the .22 short was for messing with the little varmints. Right now the primary HD weapon is a Mossberg 590 with #1 buckshot, loaded and ready to go. All I have to do is grab the gun and rack the pump. We also have an AK-47 clone of high quality. Several 10 round mags are loaded with 7.62X39 JHP and ready for action. I am searching for a .327 federal magnum. That will be a fine gun for the wife to handle. Start her out on little .32 ammo and work up to the .327 magnum loads.
Am I prepared to take a life? I am more concerned about civil unrest then an intruder.
I have given thought to applying for a concealed carry permit, but since I am a resident of LA County the odds of my getting one are slim and none. The majority of CC permits in LA County have gone to residents of Beverly Hills and Palos Verdes. Go figure, crime in those areas is pretty low.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Aug 19 2010, 08:04AM
while I am dead set against killing tree rats. What I used for ground squirells and gophers was my 357. Shooting 38's I removed most of the powder which gave you a heavy slug that did not carry and was very quiet
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Thu Aug 19 2010, 09:16PM
My Lake Elsinore Walmart carries them!
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Thu Aug 19 2010, 09:25PM
Socalman: As I said my interest is not in your weapon of choice. I was trying to get you to think about the results when someone dies either by accident or on purpose, its not plesant for either the family of the deceased or the individual that pulled the trigger. several of my friends have killed others in the military, they were well trained an doing a job for their country. I know a few of you that use SoCal have friends like mine an a high persentage suffered from the demons of their past from occasionally to almost every night. In almost every case its from killing the enemy an some from almost being killed or tortured I only have a couple of friends left from that group, one is realitively ok the other one lives on drugs furnished by the VA. since you have plans to obtain a CCW for yourself an possibly as you indicated your wife also, just give it some serious thaught. The many of the others on socal have been handling guns since they were kids. I am just trying to get you to think this out carefully. guns are an exelent form of recreation as well as for self defense. bsf
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Thu Aug 19 2010, 09:55PM
Socalman, you might want to give these a try, [Click Here].
If they are anything like there the original Colibri in .22 Short, they will be perfect for rodent control. The original Colibri were no louder than my old Crosman CO2 powered .22 pellet clip repeater and very accurate out of old H&R 9 shot 4" revolver.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Aug 20 2010, 07:21AM
Well stated. I believe all gun owners "fear" this side of the responsibility of owning a gun. But I also believe "if push came to shove", many of us would decide it is better to be able to protect myself and my family than to become a "statistic of violence".
My Father hated guns, until the time he felt he needed one. He was in the AirForce and is fully capable of handling guns. He just thought they were not needed as he grew up (which is probably true for where he grew up and the time). But a number of years back, as he was working in South Central LA, he came to me and asked if he could have one of my guns for protection. Of course I said YES.
As they saying goes, it's better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Aug 20 2010, 08:42AM
I hate fire extinguishers, they stub my toes, I hate spare tires they take up room in the trunk, I hate band-aids they take up space in the med cabinet.
But if i ever need them i will use them and be glad i have them.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Aug 20 2010, 09:14AM
I fear having to defend myself against an unwarranted civil suit brought by a surviving scumbag or his family more than anything else.
But that is the price that one must risk paying versus potentially becoming a statistic.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Aug 20 2010, 09:49AM
AMEN!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Fri Aug 20 2010, 06:28PM
One survivor, one story.
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Fri Aug 20 2010, 10:24PM
Their is no question about self defense, everyone is entitled to protect themselves an their loved ones. I grew up with guns, all of my children grew up with guns, some have purchased their wepons of choice one only has a gun because I gave it to her, we are now teaching the grandchildren how to shoot.in my opinion 22s are for plinking,practice an shooting an ocasional varment. my personal choice of carry is a 45 auto. BSF
Re: Gun ownership
Barnett, Wed Aug 25 2010, 07:59AM
I can't beleive y'all kept this thread alive for 93 pages. I guess when you're talking about your God given rights, we all have alot to say... Here's a story you might enjoy...
Sometimes I practice "Open Carry" especially when I know that I'll be in a crappy neighborhood.
Last spring I was looking for a Tea Party event to attend on Tax Day. I have a beautiful Gasden flag that I like to wave. I settled on the rally at San Bernardino City Hall. If you know the area, it is decidedly a crappy neighborhood, so I took the trusty Beretta with me. Besides feeling safer, I was making a political statement that day anyway.
When I arrived, I strapped on my pistol, unfurled my flag, and joined the crowd. I met, and had conversations with lots of people. Nobody even mentioned the gun on my hip.
After awhile I was approached by a young Deputy Sheriff.
He said " Excuse me sir, I see that you are carrying a weapon"
"Yes sir" I smiled at him and waved my flag some more.
"uh... Why are you carrying the weapon sir?"
"Well sir, I came out here today to excercise my rights, I reckon I'll excercise all of them"
"Uh... Okay... Do you have a permit for that gun?
"Sir, I am openly carrying my weapon in plain view in accordance with the law, Do I NEED to have a permit?"
"uh... Oh well, I guess not...
I smiled at him and waved my flag some more.
"uh... excuse me, do you have some ID?"
"Deputy, Have I given you reasonable suspicion to believe that I have committed any crimes?"
"Uh... well no, I guess not."
"Then do I NEED to show you my ID?
"uh... well no."
"Sir, would you like to inspect my weapon to make sure that it's unloaded? the law allows you to do that".
"uh... yes... right".
He took my Berretta from its' holster, racked the slide, inspected the weapon, and returned it to my holster.
"Thank you Deputy"
"Okay... but you're not carrying any ammunition right?"
"Well yes sir I am, I have two fully loaded magazines right here on my other hip, just in case I need to fire my weapon".
"uh... well... okay then..."
"Have a nice day Deputy."
"uh... you too sir".
As he walked away scratching his head, the guy I'd been talking to earlier who witnessed the conversation laughed and asked me if that was some sort of Jedi Mind Trick...
The thing is, we all must know our rights, and not be afraid to exercise them regularly. If the Deputy doesn't know my rights, or thinks that I don't know mine, he might violate them, or talk me into giving them up freely. Be proactive, and NEVER EVER give up a single right. The jails are full of people who talked their way into the cell.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Aug 25 2010, 08:26AM
You got that right Bob.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Thu Aug 26 2010, 09:12PM
I am surprised he didn't ask you for ID to confirm you weren't a convicted felon and/or to confirm your firearm was registered to you. Of course, that's assuming he ran the serial number to begin with....and we all know what happens when we assume.
Re: Gun ownership
Barnett, Fri Aug 27 2010, 02:03PM
A cop can demand your ID, or check the serial numbers if he has "reasonable suspition" that you have comitted a crime. Barring that, he can request that you give up those rights all day... aint' going to happen....
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Fri Aug 27 2010, 03:20PM
By you simply exercising your right to "open carry" gives any peace officer enough reaason to detain you, confirm your firearm is not loaded (per 12031 PC) and confirm your identity as the registered owner of said firearm.
As far as openly carrying in a "decidely crappy neighborhood" of San Bernardino as you said is an unwise decision in my opinion.
Do you really think some hardcore gang banger is going to care if you have a firearm on your hip? They are not as stupid as you might think, and some actually know the law. Some might know you can't have that thing loaded and decide to screw with you on purpose, with their loaded and concealed firearms. I highly doubt you can put a loaded magazine in your weapon when they have a gun stuck in your face. It's like taking a knife to a gun fight.
But then again, what do I know. It's just my opinion. You know what they say about opinions. They are just like buttholes: Everyone has one and they all stink!! My time in L.E. and having been in an OIS probably doesn't mean much to most people.
I say get a CCW so you can (legally) carry a loaded, concealed firearm, so you can have the element of surprise.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Aug 27 2010, 03:25PM
seems to me in that situation you might get away with it. But I think I would have to have a lawyer tied to me to tick off a cop. It is easy to find a reason to ask for ID. I would think they could always ask for ID but you do have an interesting argument if it went any farther.
I am sure you look like somebody that is a suspect in something or other
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Aug 27 2010, 06:21PM
rolncode2892 makes a good point, going into a bad neighborhood with an empty sidearm is inviting harassment from LEOs and worse from the dirt bags that you are trying to protect yourself from.
Your example reminds me of the debacle that took place after 1992's Hurricane Andrew hit South Florida and the news media found it pertinent to inform the public that the National Guard was patrolling their ravaged neighborhoods with fully automatic weapons minus ammunition due to a logistical hang up. It only took a day for the dirt bags to start robbing the Guardsmen of their M-16's.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Fri Aug 27 2010, 08:59PM
OOOPPPSSS!!!! I can hear the news media sounding like Steve Erkel, "Did I do that?!"
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Mon Aug 30 2010, 09:53PM
YEP.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Sep 02 2010, 12:25PM
Chuck tells it like it is, register to VOTE~
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Barnett, Thu Sep 02 2010, 09:45PM
The cops can ask for ID, but you are not obliged to show it to them without reasonable suspition. Exercising you open carry rights does not constitute reasonable suspition. They are allowed to inspect the weapon only to insure that it is unloaded in compliance with the law.
As far as getting acosted by a dirtbag, It could happen the way you say, I can draw and lock and load in about 1.5 seconds. The dirtbag better shoot straight.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Sep 03 2010, 05:55AM
Unfortunately Barnett, not everyone that "open carries" is that proficient with their firearm! Hell, even some of my LEO co-workers are not that proficient and they get monthly training and range time.
Sometimes I think that the public will be better served if they just carried nightsticks based on the results of the LEO involved shooting investigations. Based on these reports, when multiple officers are involved, tens of rounds are fired and their intended target(s) gets hit at an average ratio of 1:5! That folks is just downright scary!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Sep 03 2010, 08:49AM
Sounds like me shooting at golfballs. 1 in 5 shots would be considered GREAT.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Sep 03 2010, 09:55AM
I hear you, but your golf balls are not in front of innocent bystanders!
Our investigators hate having to track down all the missed shots and fill out the subsequent damaged property reports. Not because they are lazy, it is because it is downright embarrassing!
Thankfully, most of the time its just property damage and not injured or dead bystanders that we have to contend with!
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Sep 03 2010, 04:16PM
An old friend of mine was with LAPD Metro Div. for many years. One night we sat around and he related some stories of how those guys have to track down every single shot. RCJ, if you have to do that kind of work my sympathy.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Sep 04 2010, 10:21AM
Boner!
Re: Gun ownership
Sunni (KK6UDF), Sat Sep 04 2010, 01:30PM
Absolutely, positively, no doubt about it, YES!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sat Sep 04 2010, 03:31PM
Why is that bear pissing on that trout?? Is that an Oregon thing?
BTW, I would probably be there 3 times a month.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Sat Sep 04 2010, 04:08PM
An Oregon "thing" would be the trout blowing the bear :-)
I'm just sayin
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Sep 04 2010, 04:46PM
Damn straight!
We prefer that the local wildlife get a few freebies rather than The People get royally bent by the rulers...and still have a $20 BILLION deficit. Enjoying that 8.75% sales tax?
Just sayin'...
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Sep 04 2010, 05:42PM
OK...so I am going to send in my membership to NRA. It seems to include a membership rag as part of the membership. Anyone give me your take on AMERICAN RIFLEMAN; AMERICAN HUNTER; AMERICA'S FIRST FREEDOM. What is the difference among the mags? The title tells a little but not much!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Sep 04 2010, 06:03PM
AMERICAN RIFLEMAN
nuff said
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sat Sep 04 2010, 07:22PM
I prefer Gun Owners of America [Click Here] over Wayne LaPierre's NRA.
Like the Republicans, they too have sold their soul to the political machine and lost sight of their mission.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Sep 04 2010, 08:05PM
Rubie, he's looking for the free issue not spending anymore$$$
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Sep 04 2010, 08:07PM
On another note, we talked before about air(pellet) guns, well I'm going to pull the trigger and get one, In the lead is the Gamo whisper, any comments on good/bad..
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Sat Sep 04 2010, 08:38PM
Pelit guns leave a lot to be desired, unless your shootin in the back yard or into a log in the fireplace, BSF
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sat Sep 04 2010, 08:56PM
That is the coolest sign ever! Guns, ammo, fishing tackle and ADULT BEVERAGES! Not to mention a bear having relations with a trout! Awesome!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sat Sep 04 2010, 09:12PM
I am partial to Gamo and RWS/Diana airguns since I grew up hunting rabbits, doves and quail with them in Spain.
That being said, I owned my share of airguns from Beeman, Crosman, Daisy, Gamo and Diana over the years, unless their craftsmanship and accuracy has changed drastically over the past few years, you cannot go wrong by choosing a Gamo airgun.
I have to ask, have you shoot a >1,000 fps break open barrel airgun before? If not you may be surprised by its recoil and report.
Do report back and let us know how well the suppressor works on the Whisper.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Sep 04 2010, 09:17PM
The store is only 28 miles from home!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Sep 05 2010, 04:07AM
maybe hooters should buy them out and roll them into theretheme. Can't think of much else a guy would want.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Sep 05 2010, 07:51AM
and lunny has a date with a fish.......................
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Sep 05 2010, 08:05AM
Watch it... I'll remember carp like that the next time you want something..like after your whacked out new ammo law goes into effect...
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun Sep 05 2010, 04:13PM
Carp? ....as in Fish?
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun Sep 05 2010, 04:15PM
If it is the one I was reading about recently, good choice! 1,320 fps will teach the squirrels a lesson!
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Mon Sep 06 2010, 01:23PM
Has anybody gone to the BBV Sportsman's club this weekend?
I went today and they were closed.
Usually they're open on monday when we have three day holiday weekends.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Sep 06 2010, 01:33PM
It's all volunteer. So it may be that an authorized person was not available on a holiday weekend.
Re: Gun ownership
Mtngoat John⭐, Mon Sep 06 2010, 02:30PM
Pretty sure that is where Oden went Saturday.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Sep 06 2010, 02:53PM
Oh was going to go with family but slept in, sorry it was closed.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Mon Sep 06 2010, 03:01PM
I went Saturday and it was open. Got there right at 10am and then shot a few rounds of trap.
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Mon Sep 06 2010, 05:24PM
I thought I'd wait till monday so there would be less of a crowd.
Oh Well, I'll be there next weekend.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Sep 06 2010, 05:41PM
Odd....I could hear someone shooting this am. I figured it was was from the club and the atmospheric conditions just allowed it to carry as sometimes happens. Forest land is about a block away so it could have been someone shooting there,
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Mon Sep 06 2010, 06:13PM
I spoke to them Saturday morning about Monday (yes they are usually open), and Sterling told me they would be closed Monday due to not having enough staff available to man the range. It takes 3-4 people now to operate because so many people are using it, which is good. But the staff is limited and they would like to spend time with their families as well. I completely understand where they are coming from.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Sep 07 2010, 04:44PM
Interesting reading....
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Sep 07 2010, 07:13PM
there was also a bill to require registration of long guns that was left to die.
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Thu Sep 09 2010, 05:33PM
see more Very Demotivational
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Sep 10 2010, 12:50PM
I wonder if bacon grease is as hard to remove from a firearm as cosmoline?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Sep 10 2010, 01:47PM
why would you want to?
stops rust.
Might even smell as good as hoppes
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Sep 17 2010, 09:06AM
I think it's time for one of these events!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Sep 17 2010, 10:33AM
funny
but I cringed when he placed the anvil on another anvil with gunpowder in between. Not the brightest thing to do
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Sep 17 2010, 01:11PM
73-year-old collars intruder at Spartanburg home
By Gary Glancy
gary.glancy©shj.com
Published: Monday, June 28, 2010 at 3:15 a.m.
You don't tug on Superman's cape; you don't spit into the wind. You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger, and you don't mess around with ... Ken.
That's the lesson an intruder learned Saturday when 73-year-old Ken Easler surprised the unwanted visitor. Easler had just returned to the rural home he owns with his wife, Dot, on Jones Road near Converse around 11 a.m. Saturday.
When Easler walked through his unlocked front door, he heard someone upstairs and knew it wasn't Dot, whom he had just left at the Hub City Farmers Market, where she was selling fresh produce from the couple's farm.
Easler immediately went for his 9mm Ruger P85 handgun, loaded a round into it and went to the stairwell near the front door, where Easler said the intruder was sneaking down — until he saw the gun.
“When I jacked that round in the chamber, he sat down and was holding onto the rail,” Easler said. “I know he was scared.
“I told him, ‘You do anything sudden, you're liable to end up dead.' ”
The man complied, and Easler held him at gunpoint in a bathroom off the kitchen until deputies from the Spartanburg County Sheriff's Office arrived about 10 minutes later.
Douglas Michael Nickerson, 24, of 1530 Old Pacolet Road, Spartanburg, was arrested on the scene and charged with second-degree burglary, non-violent, and petit larceny, value less than $2,000. He remained in jail Sunday night in lieu of $7,500 bond.
Easler said he's glad he wasn't forced to shoot Nickerson, but he hopes his actions will lead to a conviction that will keep Nickerson off the streets. It is the 11th arrest for Nickerson in the past two and a half years, with charges ranging from criminal domestic violence to trespassing to drug possession, according to online jail records. Nickerson also was charged with second-degree burglary — in addition to driving under suspension and reckless driving — in November.
“This ain't the first time he's come inside somebody's house,” Easler said. “If they don't send this guy to jail, the next guy may not be as tough as I am, and he could hurt somebody.”
Sheriff Chuck Wright said Sunday night that while he was not familiar with the case, he was proud of Easler when told what Easler had done.
”That's why we have (guns), to protect ourselves with,” Wright said. “I don't have any issues with what that gentleman did. I think he did a good job. ... That's the reason why good, honest citizens have a right to bear arms.”
Staying calm
It all started like any typical Saturday, with Dot Easler arriving at the farmers' market around 7 a.m. and Ken working on the farm, which sits on the couple's 13-acre property, just down the hill from where Ken grew up. Ken Easler left the home around 9:30 or so to deliver an order of 10 dozen ears of corn to the market.
After returning to gather two baskets of green tomatoes, Easler went inside the home to get a drink when he made the unpleasant discovery.
“Thank God (Nickerson) wasn't armed,” Dot Easler said. “If he had been armed, I think Ken would have shot him.”
Her husband said Nickerson, as he was sneaking down the stairs and saw Easler with the gun, told him, “Don't shoot me; I just had to go to the bathroom.”
“If he had been bigger and more intimidating,” Easler said, “I probably would have shot him on the stairs, but I stayed calm and didn't get nervous or anything.”
Easler knows how to handle a gun. He began as a youngster when he hunted in the area. In later years, the Easlers traveled extensively for Dot's wholesale fabric business, often carrying lots of cash, so both of them had permits to carry a firearm for personal protection.
“I'm a good shot,” Dot said with a chuckle.
Taking control
So is her husband, who said he ordered Nickerson first into the dining room to ask Nickerson if anyone was with him. When Nickerson assured Easler there wasn't — Easler said he promised Nickerson he'd shoot both of them if Nickerson was lying — Easler told Nickerson to move into the kitchen where Easler would use the phone to call 911.
“I told him, ‘If you make a wrong move, you're dead — I'm going to shoot you,' ” Easler said.
Easler said he then made Nickerson go into a small bathroom off the kitchen — about 6 or 7 feet from where Easler was standing — so that he could keep an eye on Nickerson. Easler added that Nickerson pretended like he was going to start crying, then began breathing heavily like he was hyperventilating. He also made a request, Easler said.
“If you just let me go, I'll never do this again,” Easler said Nickerson told him. “And I said, ‘You become a man when you decided to come into this house.' ”
Easler said that while he was kept on the phone by a 911 dispatcher until deputies arrived, Nickerson told him he had been staying at the Motel 6 on Jones Road but was thrown out, so he walked toward the Easlers' home and stopped to use the bathroom.
According to an incident report, deputies found two rolls of 50 one-dollar bills in Nickerson's pants pocket when they arrested him. Easler said he keeps rolls of dollar bills in a downstairs cabinet.
Dot Easler commended the dispatcher for keeping her husband on the phone so the situation could remain calm until deputies arrived.
”I told them I was all right,” Easler said, “but in a second, the situation could change. I was prepared to shoot (Nickerson), but I'm glad I didn't have to shoot him.”
When deputies did arrive, the report states, they found Nickerson lying on the bathroom floor, and they ordered Easler to put down his gun.
While the situation was ultimately resolved without incident, the Easlers say they're thankful no one was hurt.
Dot Easler said someone could have just as easily manhandled a man her husband's age, but the gun saved him in this instance.
“We've got to stand up for ourselves,” said Ken Easler, who later added, “(Nickerson) became 110 percent cooperative when he was looking at that gun.”
Copyright © 2010 GoUpstate.com — All rights reserved. Restricted use only.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Sep 19 2010, 05:09AM
OK I'll be the first to ask it, knowing how our courts and penal system treat repeat offenders why give them another chance to victimize someone else if you are well within your rights to eradicate society of this scourge?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Sep 30 2010, 11:52PM
got this in an email.
It is not a slam dunk but this is something "they" are trying to do to us. Keep an eye on these idiots and make sure your candidates are pro guns.... hell pro constitution.
Subject: Look what's on the 2010 tax return
Verified true on Snopes [Click Here]
Gun owners.... Look what's on the 2010 tax return....
If you have a gun, I hope it isn't registered!
It begins... More Freedom gone.... The right to protect yourself and your family gone! Now ALL GUNS must be listed on your next (2010) tax return!
Senate Bill SB-2099 will require us to put on our 2009 1040 federal tax form all guns that you have or own. It will require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun. This bill was introduced on February 24, 2009, by the Obama staff. BUT, this bill will only become public knowledge 30 days after the new law becomes effective! This is an amendment to the Internal Revenue Act of 1986. This means that the Finance Committee has passed this without the Senate voting on it at all. Trust Obama? You must be kidding!
The full text of the IRS admsntment is on the U.S.Senate homepage: [Click Here]. You can find the bill by doing a search by the bill number, SB-2099. You know who to call; I strongly suggest you do.
Please send a copy of this e-mail to every gun owner you know.
Text of H.R.45 as Introduced in House: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009: [Click Here]
Obama's Congress is now starting on the firearms confiscation bill. If it passes, gun owners will become criminals if you don't fully comply.
It has begun... Whatever Obama's "Secret Master Plan" is... This is just the 'tip of the iceberg!'
Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because the government is trying to fly it under the radar as a 'minor' IRS revision, and, as usual, the 'political' lawmakers did not read this bill before signing and approving it!
To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Goggle HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.
Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless: 1) It is registered 2) You are fingerprinted 3) You supply a current Driver's License 4) You supply your Social Security number 5) You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing. Each update change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25. Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.
There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18. They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 years in prison.
If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this.. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in your family pass this along. This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it.
This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not..
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress) " rel=nofollow [Click Here] :
H.R.45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress [Click Here]
H.R. 45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (GovTrack.us) [Click Here]
Please..... Copy and send this out to EVERYONE in the USA , whether you support the Right to Bear Arms or are for gun control. We all should have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Oct 01 2010, 07:58AM
gee It's not even faux news. So it must be true
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Fri Oct 01 2010, 10:58AM
see more Political Pictures
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Oct 01 2010, 11:16AM
when It first came on screen I thought it was a dumb spot to be throwing grenades. Good thing it was not a frag. Maybe that was the lesson to be learned?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Oct 03 2010, 07:55AM
some think this is fake
looks real to me.
Only I wouldn't think it would peel so much
elmer fudds would just swell up
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Oct 03 2010, 08:27AM
interesting site with county closures, and hunting areas. As well as gun laws
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Oct 03 2010, 08:38AM
well that just s_cks!
Thanks BG
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Sun Oct 03 2010, 09:22AM
Read ordinance 22.0113.... Throwing of Missiles.
And 22.0114.... the penalty
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Oct 03 2010, 05:45PM
Found Elsewhere:
From "Sarge"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
Sarge is a honest, law abiding citizen as you all know. But even such a impecable person as he can run afowl of the law at times.
It happened like this:
In the City of Denver, Colorado where Sarge lives, they have some really stupid laws. Anti-gun laws if you may. One says a person can not carry a firearm in his car for self defense.
Not only is this allowed by the United States Constitution but also by the State of Colorado Constitution. But Denver has always thought they were above the laws. So the time came when a officer of Denver Police stopped Sarge on a routine holiday stop. And saw a gun. Not just one gun but 3 guns. And he promply arrested Sarge and confiscated his guns. A week later Sarge arrived at the court house with his lawyer and the judge was forced to return the guns and drop the charges.
So far so good.
If you have never had your self in a situation like this then you do not realize what you have to go through to get your own property back. That should have never been taken in the first case.
First you have to get a copy of the Judges decision, (you pay for it too) then you have to go to the Police Headquarters and fill out forms. You must have copies of who you are, (notorized yet) your birth certificate, your drivers license and probably a letter from your mother and a priest too. All this takes about 4 hours. Most of it sitting and waiting for some one to decide to sign the papers and release the property. (you can't even dare leave to put quarters in the parking meter)
Finally your name is called and you go to the property room and turn over all the forms including the release form. From here on out it becomes ridiculous. In the room is a little 'dumb waiter' like elevator. The police clerk pushed the button and slowly the elevator creaks up from the basement. Then they put the forms in the basket and pushes the button again. Slowly slowly it goes out of sight. (yes we are talking in modern times, like the year 2001.)
After you wait about another hour the little elevator slowly comes up from the depths and on it was Sarge's metal box with the three pistols inside. Sarge reaches out for his property and the Officer in charge says "NO".
"NO?" what do you mean NO?" says Sarge.
"You can't carry that gun box full of guns out of here, it would be carrying a concealed weapon." the Officer states.
"WHAT?" shrieks Sarge. "Well how in the hell am I going to get these guns to my car, then?"
"Now calm down Mr. Sarge, here is what you must carry the guns out of the building and to your vehical with." replies the Officer
And he hands the stupefied Sarge a paper sack that has printed on it
FIREARMS IN HERE
Yes that is right.
Sarge just stands there staring at the sack in amazement.
"You want me to take my guns out of this locked metal box and put them in this paper sack that says
FIREARMS IN HERE?"
And this is safer than carrying the guns to my car in a locked steel box?" asks Sarge.
"Civilization as we know it is doomed," intones Sarge as he unlocks the metal box and transfers the three pistols to the paper sack.
"Now I am totally legal, right?" asks Sarge.
"Thank you for breaking the law in our city," says the Officer and holds the door open for Sarge. "Please come back"
Sarge walks out the front door and down the sidewalk feeling like a fool carrying a paper sack that says Firearms in Here.
POOF! and a little guy is sitting on Sarge's shoulder. Sarge peeks out of the corner of his eye and sees the red outfit, long pointy tail, horns and evil grin.
"HEH HEH HEH" chuckles the little devil, "go ahead Sarge and do it"
"Do what?" says Sarge
"Don't give me that 'do what' business, I am the devil, I know what you are thinking. Go ahead, do it." he grins.
POOF! Oh Oh, Sarge looks over at his other shoulder and sure enough there is a little woman wearing white, beautiful brown hair with a gold ring on her head and little wings.
"AND IT LOOKS JUST LIKE TIGGS"
'"NO Sarge don't do it!" says the little angel.
Damn! it is Tiggs! I'd know that voice anywhere.
"Don't do it Sarge, Lt. Linda will be so mad, she will whopp you!"
said the little Tiggs Angel.
"Sarge what is there to worry," says the Devil, "Linda is a little woman and she can't hit very hard." "I will keep her busy with temptations and she will never know." he slyly spoke.
"You go messing with Lt. Linda and I will knock you right off my shoulder into 10 miles of rush hour traffic you little SOB," Sarge shouts.
"Sorry, I didn't mean that, but what is there to worry about. You got the law on your side." he sneers
"No Sarge, don't do it. It will break Linda's heart when she hears about it on the TV, scare her to death, it will!" says Tiggs Angel. And if she finds out you did it she will shoot you with her .38 too!" pouts Tiggs Angel.
"Ha! devil you forgot about her .38, she will shoot us both."
says Sarge.
POOF! And the devil is gone.
"Sarge, you are not going to do it are you?" begs a petulant Tiggs Angel.
Sarge smiles and holds the paper sack up high as he walks down the street. Ahh, he see's a lady coming toward him. She has a severe hairdo, wears a man's type suit and is carrying a briefcase, Perfect! She has just got to be a Liberated woman and probably a lawyer to boot. Maybe even a Democrat!
"GOOD AFTERNOON, I HAVE GUNS IN HERE!"
Sarge thrusts the paper sack with it's message easily seen into her face.
"AHHHHHHH!" She screams and runs across the street, letting out little shrieks, losing one high heel and doing a strange little hop, clump hop, clump as she runs away.
A smiling Sarge continues onward. "HELLO I HAVE GUNS IN HERE!" He anounces to the next person coming up the sidewalk. That little business man looking mouse dives for the nearest door.
"HELLO, HOW ARE YOU, I HAVE GUNS IN HERE!"
echos down the street as Sarge marches his merry way. From the roof tops it must have looked like Sarge had a magic wand in his hand. As he advanced the wave of people split and rolled across the street on both sides like the wake on the stern of a heavy cruiser.
By the time he had made it two blocks he also had picked up a couple of guys in MossyOak camo that were making bids for the three guns. Sarge explained what he was doing, and the two gunowners laughed and decided to join the parade. Soon they were spread out ahead, shouting, "That guy has some guns!"
It took two trips around the block where the truck was parked before the sirens finally began to sound. Also from the direction of the Police Headquarters came the sound of running flat feet.
In Denver's traffic the cops on foot had the advantage and the officer from the front desk reached Sarge first.
"Hello Officer, I have guns in here, see it says so right on this sack." Sarge announced.
The Officer slid to a stop and stared at the sack, then looked at Sarge. "OH you again!" he declaired. "What are you doing threatening people with a gun?"
"I am not threatening anyone, see the staples you put on the sack are still here." " I am just telling everyone, that in this wonderful country of ours a citizen can walk down the street with a gun in a sack and be entirely legal." said Sarge.
"I can walk down the street with my guns in this sack and be entirely legal can't I? You told me so, didn't you?" This is the sack you gave me to carry my guns down the street and be perfectly legal, irregardless of the fact that it says right here in large letters
FIREARMS IN HERE
"Isn't that right Officer?"
The officer shook his head and slapped his forehead. "Why me," he groaned.
"I am right, aren't I, Officer?"
"Officer, you look a little peaked, maybe you should get outside more often." Sarge offered.
"Where is your car, sir?" asked the Officer.
"Oh, my White Elephant is right over there, sir." volunteered Sarge.
"White Elephant?" asked the Officer.
"Yes my White Elephant, you know that is what my boys call my White Ford, Econoline, Van, why I remember the day I brought the White Elephant home, the boys were so happy like the first time they shot the neighbors dog, and they............"SHUT UP!""
"Yes sir." said Sarge
"That is your vehicle over there?"
"Yes sir." said Sarge
Grabbing Sarge by the arm the Officer escorted him to the truck.
"Oh heck Officer, the meter ran out and I don't have any coins, you wouldn't have.......
The coins were feed into the slot by 4 officers all trying to be the first one to help.
"Thank you men, you are a honor to your profession." says Sarge as he drives away.
POOF!... "Chicken," The little red guy sneers at Sarge, "you blew it, you had something going, I personally know that if you had held out for 5 more minutes channel 4 News would have been here"
Sarge reaches for the little pest's neck and
POOF!
Sarge the nice guy.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Oct 03 2010, 05:55PM
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Tue Oct 05 2010, 09:25PM
"If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective."
- Ted Nugent
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Oct 06 2010, 07:23AM
spoons and forks make people fat, ask Rossie O'donnel
Re: Gun ownership
Craig ⭐, Wed Oct 06 2010, 07:48AM
Who needs a spoon and a fork for this?
<---------------------------- --
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Oct 06 2010, 07:52AM
DD w Onion!!!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Oct 06 2010, 09:44PM
My Brother-in-law just ordered a Mossberg 100 ATR Night Train 2 (.308). Since he does not own a gun safe I get to store it in my gun safe along with his SKS and Mosin-Nagant 1891/30.
I guess I won't need to buy a sniper rifle after all.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Oct 07 2010, 07:16AM
!t1 !t2
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Oct 10 2010, 08:06AM
YES. I believe it is our duty to be prepared for any nightmare that may happen. We should have learned this from our history classes in 3rd grade.
And for all my friends out there....
Welcome to the bi-annual Machine Gun Shoot at Knob Creek Gun Range in Kentucky
[Click Here]
I wanna go!!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Oct 10 2010, 08:08AM
This looks like way too much fun.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Oct 10 2010, 08:48AM
That would be an extremely fun but very expensive outing!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Oct 10 2010, 08:56AM
most of thse guys reload, but man-o-man I'd love to go!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
airattackimages, Sun Oct 10 2010, 05:23PM
Wow, I didn't know Mossberg was into anything except scatterguns. Nice! Whats the reputation on their rifles?
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Oct 10 2010, 10:47PM
The online forums give the ATR line above average reviews, the Barska 6-24 X 50 scope that they equip the Night Train 2 with on the other hand gets pretty poor reviews. Give me a month or two and I will post how it fares.
Right of the bat I can tell you that I wish that it came with a detachable box magazine and better sling mounts. The sling mounts are part of the synthetic stock and they seem pretty flimsy. I would have also preferred a Hogue Overmold stock instead of a plain synthetic stock but heck, it's my Brother-in-law's not mine!
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Feb 10 2008, 03:05PM
Okay, in another post the question was raised about how people feel about gun ownership.
So here is the question; Do you feel American’s should own guns.
I'll start another one about the type of and how many you have.
Yes or no
edit: I should have had a poll on this.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sun Feb 10 2008, 03:10PM
1. Yes, you aren't a true American unless you own a gun, or go by the nick name "Gunney".
2. No, and it's unAmerican to ask.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Feb 10 2008, 03:11PM
YES!
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Sun Feb 10 2008, 03:30PM
im not allowed to play this game hahahahah
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Feb 10 2008, 03:47PM
yes yes of course yes
nothing more should be asked
mel just answer the question as asked, there is nothing personel about it.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Sun Feb 10 2008, 04:01PM
Absolutely. It is our right of course. Not only for self defense but recreational purposes. They key is to keep them in the hands of responsible people, which sometimes is tough.
I went through the legal process to purchase my guns, but sadly, I know many resources where I could get them on the black market and that's the problem.
I'm worried about certain parties getting into office taking away this right.
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Sun Feb 10 2008, 04:07PM
bills grandson wrote ...
yes yes of course yes
nothing more should be asked
mel just answer the question as asked, there is nothing personel about it.
yes yes of course yes
nothing more should be asked
mel just answer the question as asked, there is nothing personel about it.
im really not allowed to play with guns..
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Feb 10 2008, 04:46PM
mel
that wasent the question he asked
Do you feel American’s should own guns ?
I assume meaning responsible citizens having the right to own them, but the way it is written isn't bad either
Still haven't heard if BBB has one or not.
Re: Gun ownership
Marty, Sun Feb 10 2008, 04:54PM
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Feb 10 2008, 05:07PM
Yes, I think that Americans should own guns.
Hey, did y'all see this?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Feb 10 2008, 05:11PM
Of course and in my opinion - you should own at least 3 because guns are different for different needs.
I've stated this before. When I was in Malaysia, I was asked many times "what is it like living in a society where everyone has guns - are you frightened??". My answer was "Think about it!! If you knew everyone had guns and were ready to use them - WOULD YOU ROB SOMEONE?". Their answer would always be "NO".
People outside the US don't understand that guns are not a problem - idiots and gangs members with guns are a problem. Some people turn into idiots. Other people are born that way.
-- enough said.
Benny - great answer buddy. I'm right there with ya.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Feb 10 2008, 06:54PM
luna
nice video, forever on dialup
like a streetsweeper on speed.
that is a gun that not everyone should have in their home....
.....just me
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Feb 10 2008, 09:13PM
Luna, that is one heck of a weapon!! Gotta love the technology.
Run bad guys - RUN FAST!!
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Sun Feb 10 2008, 10:07PM
You people kill me!
Oh wait. One day you probably will....it will be a horrible mistake, of course.
If you want to own a gun, that's fine. But just be aware that many shootings in this country are accidental, and hurt only friends and family members or innocent bystanders. I lost a brother in law because of a gun being in the wrong hands -- a convicted felon's.
There is no boogie man. The boogie man is us.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun Feb 10 2008, 10:21PM
Gun control = being able to hit the target.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Feb 10 2008, 10:22PM
inky
I have pulled on one boogie man, and taken a gun away from one.
sorry about your brother in law but bad things happen to good people.
the way I see it with guns is
it is better to have one and not need it.
then to need one and not have it.
most of the accidents happen with people who are not familiar with them. it is really tough with kids in the house. my kids were shooting early and we never had a problem. whats really bad is homes that don't have kids and someone who does visits. You relax to much without kids around
and that is dangerous.
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Sun Feb 10 2008, 11:48PM
We have to agree to disagree on this one, Mr. Grandson.
Too many weapons and too little education. Bad recipe.
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Sun Feb 10 2008, 11:56PM
socalman wrote ...
Gun control = being able to hit the target.
Gun control = being able to hit the target.
Bob Cowperthwaite, was NOT a target, by the way. He was 34 years old, and his daughter was 9. And she saw him die in a street in Lake Elsinore.
He was born on 3/17, Saint Patrick's Day.
And I'm not feeling too kindly to your people this night.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 01:18AM
education used to be covered by the family. If you wanted a hunting license, and now I believe in California to buy you need to take a hunter safety course.
part of the problem is the more guns are supressed the less training there is, and urban crime and video games takes the blood and pain out of murder
this question was in regards to the bill of rights not to the right to murder anyone. Nobody should ever want to take a life. and having a gun should be to protect innocent lives.
I won't minimize your argument or hit you with quotes that you have heard a million times.
the one that I grieve is the McGowan family. If it was what it is said to be. that was truely senseless
I hope you will still acept your valentine day card real soon.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 11 2008, 06:47AM
Inky, I’m truly sorry for your friend and his family. If the perp. thought that he was armed he may have left him and his family alone. Gun control only keeps guns away from good citizens, the laws that do not allow every day citizens to carry guns opens them up to be victims of criminals that break the law by carrying gun the fact is in states that allow CCW crime is down. A criminal will pick on a person they feel is not going to fight back or can not fight back, if he had thought that your friend could defend himself he would not have been attacked.
We do have a choice in this country to own or not to own a gun it is up to the individual to decide how they want to live. I chose to own a gun and if needed to, to defend my family.
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:10AM
I do not need them. My ford pick up truck kills enough to feed a family of four. and also every time I go shooting I increase the demand for ammo that creates more production of ammo and intern lowers the price of ammo for the hoodlums. Government will take care of me. Look at what a good job they are doing with the borders. Are the instructions on the ammo box still only in English or are they like other products sold in the States???
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:12AM
We don't need guns in Big Bear.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:13AM
Jerry B wrote ...
I do not need them. My ford pick up truck kills enough to feed a family of four. and also every time I go shooting I increase the demand for ammo that creates more production of ammo and intern lowers the price of ammo for the hoodlums. Government will take care of me. Look at what a good job they are doing with the borders. Are the instructions on the ammo box still only in English or are they like other products sold in the States???
I do not need them. My ford pick up truck kills enough to feed a family of four. and also every time I go shooting I increase the demand for ammo that creates more production of ammo and intern lowers the price of ammo for the hoodlums. Government will take care of me. Look at what a good job they are doing with the borders. Are the instructions on the ammo box still only in English or are they like other products sold in the States???
RIGHT! Re: Gun ownership
KK, Mon Feb 11 2008, 09:31AM
My answer is yes!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:10AM
You have to remember that in times of need when you only have seconds to act the police are minuets away. Having a gun either equals the field or lets you end the threat right then.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Feb 11 2008, 11:17AM
bkap wrote ...
You have to remember that in times of need when you only have seconds to act the police are minuets away. Having a gun either equals the field or lets you end the threat right then.
You have to remember that in times of need when you only have seconds to act the police are minuets away. Having a gun either equals the field or lets you end the threat right then.
Or potentially escalate it. If you are going to pull a weapon on a perpetrator, you best be intended to use it, a scary thought in most situations, but you are calling someones bluff.
Edited:
Read the book for your HSC (Handgun Safety Certificate) most of which should be common sense rules, but there are also some interesting points about when you can pull out your weapon and when to stand down, when you can shoot an intruder and when you cannot.
It's about 56 pages, and quite insightful. I purchased my shotgun for the mere purpose of trap shooting as a recreation, but it is a stopable weapon. I bought my .357 magnum, because of it's beauty, value & handling also as a recreation weapon. But arguably, yeah, it could take an eye out.
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 11:25AM
Cat wrote ...
We don't need guns in Big Bear.
We don't need guns in Big Bear.
I could never agree with you more on anything else...
The day I need a gun in BB to "defend myself" is the day I move! I did not know BB is inundated (sp?) with so many home invasion robberies.
My disdain for guns is a result of having one at my head and being hit with it several times during a robbery while I was an assistant manager at a Ralph's in the 1980's. BTW, this robber purchased the gun legally. I guess it was his "right" to bear arms and pistol whip others. The scarey part came later when this guy did end up shooting someone that did not do exactly as he requested.
Europeans don't understand some Americans thrills with toting guns and neither do I....
Sorry about your relative Ink. THat just happens more than people think. I think the fact that you are more likely to know the shooter of a gun at you than not speaks for itself. I guess the loudness of the guns has caused this to be heard by deaf ears....
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 06:45PM
bbb
you still haven't answered the question
do you or dont you? have a gun that is??
(weapon to all you marines)
sorry to hear your leaving the valley.
where you going to go that you won't have to defend yourself.
France?
Re: Gun ownership
Moose Drool, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:00PM
Everyone should own a catapult. Neighbor disputes would be so much more entertaining, and door-to-door salesmen could be dispatched in a very satisfying fashion (if the catapult was positioned just right).
Remember: Guns don't kill people but farts might!
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:10PM
Dennis Knickerbocker, I DO NOT own a gun now nor intend to ever own one.
The other Dennis (I almost said the smart one
)...I might have to borrow that fart sign....Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:22PM
hey!!!
he got a double probation F thats worse then mine
so me am smarter aint eye??
I respect that you arn't one of those I got mine but you can't have one liberal's
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:24PM
Nope, I am a fiscal conservative and a political moderate. I am just up on this fence all by myself....
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:31PM
that b sum mity fan-c store bought words
looks like were on the same fence, is that you setting way to my left?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Feb 11 2008, 09:02PM
BBB wrote ...
The day I need a gun in BB to "defend myself" is the day I move!
The day I need a gun in BB to "defend myself" is the day I move!
You got this all wrong..
The day you NEED a gun in BB to defend yourself is the day you probably die.
Brandon, some people like yourself resign your fate to another human in an attempt to be non-violent. Others, like me, intend to defend myself if needed or if my country calls on my defending it. Think of me as part of the voluntary US army - willing to help defend our home.
It's all about CHOICE and nobody like someone else making this decision for them and forcing one of our basic rights away from us. DO YOU LIKE RESIGNING YOUR FATE TO THE NEXT GUY THAT TRIES TO ROB YOU OR YOUR HOME? That's what you're doing by saying "I'm not prepared to defend myself". You're giving that person the CHOICE you did not want to make. His choice as to if you live or die.
You can say "times have changed and we don't need guns" all you want - but think about it - HAVE THEY REALLY CHANGED? What is the difference between threats from other govts vs. threats our forefathers experienced?? Imagine them fighting against an enemy or invading country - nah, that's never happened in our history - eh? This is one of the tennents that make America such a great country. "Don't Tread On Me!" - remember?? It is our right to own and have guns and this has been our way for over 200 years.
You have that right and CHOOSE not to exercise it because you feel no need to own one. Fine - no problem.
BTW, when you and Dennis are willing to have rational discussions about the "problems in the US" - we'll listen and participate. IN the mean time talking about IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE WITH GUNS is clearly demonstrating you don't understand the scope of the issue. For every idiot with a gun, there are probably 40+ RESPONSIBLE people that own guns (including US citizens and US military) and never cause a problem in their entire life.
So, have fun trying to convince me that 1/40th of the gun owning population is either crazy or an idiot and because of that the other 39/40 (RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE) should be forced to give up their guns.
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Mon Feb 11 2008, 09:14PM
My disdain for guns is a result of having one at my head and being hit with it several times during a robbery while I was an assistant manager at a Ralph's in the 1980's. BTW, this robber purchased the gun legally. I guess it was his "right" to bear arms and pistol whip others. The scarey part came later when this guy did end up shooting someone that did not do exactly as he requested.
I am so sorry that this happened to you, truly, I am. I may think differently it that was to of happend to me. On the other hand, if you would of had a gun at your disposal it may not of happened.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 09:25PM
Bmatheny
be careful throwing around the dennis's, there are two here and it gets confusing which one you are talking about
I know this will be lost on some, since they seem to have trouble with a few sentances, but it makes sense to me
[Click Here]
been there, done that and all I got was this stinking t-shirt
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Feb 11 2008, 09:41PM
Sorry Dennis. I was talking about Moose's "neighbor" comment. No harm I hope??
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:06PM
BRad, let's talk with the parents of the victims of Columbine, Virginia Tech, Jonesboro (Arkansas), and others that have had legally bought guns take away their loved ones. I don't personally care if it's 1:1000 (which I doubt), the risk is too high and the laws just allow too many freakazoids to have guns. If the society I live in needs the citizens to arm themselves to survive as you so state, then that's one society I would rather not exist in. As Cat pointed out, we don't need guns here in BB. THat is one reason I live here. I am perplexed how you and Dennis K don't understand that guns kill and most homocides from guns are from someone the victim knew. The rest of the civilized world is wrong and the minority of want it all gun slinging yahoos in the USA are right....OK, you have your opinion and I have mine....
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:18PM
bbb
I know you wont buy this, but a large part of the reason you don't need guns in BB, is because there are so many guns in BB.
I would not condone teachers having guns in school but if one had it may have turned out different.
there will never be a time that people wont do things like that and if there arn't guns they will find a way.
you and I will never agree on this, and I hope you are never in a situation that you may wish you had but i hope we can agree on other things.
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:21PM
Not one single one of my close friends (not on SCM
) in BB have guns. These are people with money and influence in many cases. The only people I am hearing with guns are some members of this board. Maybe I hang out with the wrong crowd. Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:32PM
most people will not tell you if they have guns. I would guess that almost every scumbag has one, you better hope that enough good people do to.
It is a different age. "we" all grew up with cap guns, bb guns, ss's then hunting rifles. It is sad the political correctnes has stopped most of that, and giving them video games instead. like many things I am afraid that progress is not always a good thing.
where I am forced to live we have a killing at least once a week, and I doubt if any of them are leagel firearms mostly kids, minority on minority.
mel
he was my grandfather, and I'm finding out he was right about almost everything.
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:36PM
I don't think so, especially my really close friends who confide in me on more important issues. Some of them have small kids or grandkids and I know they'd never have a gun in the house. Maybe if I lived where you do (sounds like South Central LA) I would have a different opinion or I would work my ass off to get out to a safer place.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:42PM
desert hot springs.
wish I could work it will be better when the dem's get in and My disability will be approved. damn rep's won't approve it.
kids and grand kids definetly should make you be much safer with any weapons.
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:45PM
Desert Hot Springs has high crime?
Are the old ladies robbing banks or what?Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 11 2008, 10:49PM
mostly gangs in DHS
banks all over the valley almost once a week, mostly robbers commute from L.A. they are getting some of them. lots of fast food places getting hit now.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 08:50AM
BBB wrote ...
I don't think so, especially my really close friends who confide in me on more important issues. Some of them have small kids or grandkids and I know they'd never have a gun in the house. Maybe if I lived where you do (sounds like South Central LA) I would have a different opinion or I would work my ass off to get out to a safer place.
I don't think so, especially my really close friends who confide in me on more important issues. Some of them have small kids or grandkids and I know they'd never have a gun in the house. Maybe if I lived where you do (sounds like South Central LA) I would have a different opinion or I would work my ass off to get out to a safer place.
Ya know something - I'm almost willing to bet that about 50% of your friends HAVE GUNS and probably have not told you. Many people keep them is safes or have received guns from relatives that have passed.
My ex-business partner was like you Brandon. He hated guns and never saw a need to have one. Never felt he needed to bring them into his house and use to spout off about every WACKO that shot somebody with a gun.
Sure, Columbine, Virginia Tech and others were horrible - but VERY MINOR in comparison to the Gangs and other criminal factions that commit crimes with guns year round. Most of the CRIME that goes on in the US is minority based (chinese/asian, hispanic/latino, Black or other) and mostly gang or crime related. This problem represents probably 99% of all gun related crimes in the US. The other 1% are those situations you've reported where RESPONSIBLE people do stupid things with guns. As I've stated before, then you have to take into consideration the other 70+ million people that own guns and are responsible with them (and have been for over 20+ years).
I think we'll have to "agree to disagree" on this issue Brandon. As long as you continue to raise the minority issues as MAJORITY ISSUES - then we'll never be able to properly discuss this topic.
As long as you continue to throw all the good apples out with one bad apple - you'll never understand or resolve this issue. The issue is "we want to get rid of the bad apples that show no responsibility" and keep all the GOOD APPLES. Will it stop the problems from ever happening in the future - NO. But will taking guns away from responsible citizens stop the criminal factions from using them - NO.
Don't believe me - ask anyone in England or Australia about this? Maybe you should talk a bit with Snapper.
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Feb 12 2008, 09:30AM
According to a Florida State University study conducted by Professor James Keck 88% of all violent crimes occur away from the household of the victim. In such cases carrying a gun in most cases would be illegal and usually not done.
The same study shows that more than 58% of victims of a gun shooting knew their assailant.
Go ahead, give us more biased facts from the NRA, unsubstanciated by scholarly research....
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:03AM
Care to share the link for that study??
Did the study provide any information as to the number of gun crimes that were conducted by criminals or gang members vs. responsible citizens?
It would be interesting to see how your "study" actually represents the numbers of RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS THAT WERE INVOLVED IN GUN RELATED CRIMES vs. Career criminals and Gang Members involved in gun related crimes.
As you have not stated this fact in your previous post, let me try to guess at the actual number to see how close I can guess...
hmmmmm.. I'll bet that nearly 97.5% of the gun related crimes reviewed in this study were the direct result of either a career criminal, gang member or illegal immigrant.
Care to enlighten me??
Re: Gun ownership
idunno, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:08AM
bills grandson wrote ...
mostly gangs in DHS
banks all over the valley almost once a week, mostly robbers commute from L.A. they are getting some of them. lots of fast food places getting hit now.
mostly gangs in DHS
banks all over the valley almost once a week, mostly robbers commute from L.A. they are getting some of them. lots of fast food places getting hit now.
There are still alot of nice parts to DHS also. I actually thought the area was cleaning up. Its definetly not "south central" as BBB had said. I spend lots of time down there in P.S. and DHS both
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:13AM
BBB wrote ...
According to a Florida State University study conducted by Professor James Keck 88% of all violent crimes occur away from the household of the victim. In such cases carrying a gun in most cases would be illegal and usually not done.
The same study shows that more than 58% of victims of a gun shooting knew their assailant.
Go ahead, give us more biased facts from the NRA, unsubstanciated by scholarly research....
According to a Florida State University study conducted by Professor James Keck 88% of all violent crimes occur away from the household of the victim. In such cases carrying a gun in most cases would be illegal and usually not done.
The same study shows that more than 58% of victims of a gun shooting knew their assailant.
Go ahead, give us more biased facts from the NRA, unsubstanciated by scholarly research....
Oddly, I searched for any information I could find on this study and the only "Professon James Keck" I could find is as follows.
James L. Keck - Assistant Professor
Biomolecular Chemistry Department
550 Medical Sciences Center
1300 University Avenue
Madison WI 53706-1532
Fax: (608) 262-5253
Office: (608) 263-1815
jlkeck©wisc.edu
--------------------------------- ----------------------------------- --
Education
B.S. 1992, University of Massachusetts;
Ph.D. 1997, University of California-Berkeley (S. Marqusee);
Postdoctoral, 1997-98, Harvard University (J. Wang);1999-01, University of California-Berkeley (J. Berger).
[Click Here]
Is this the guy you are discussing?? And if so - where is the link to his study?
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 11:20AM
KK wrote ...
My disdain for guns is a result of having one at my head and being hit with it several times during a robbery while I was an assistant manager at a Ralph's in the 1980's. BTW, this robber purchased the gun legally. I guess it was his "right" to bear arms and pistol whip others. The scarey part came later when this guy did end up shooting someone that did not do exactly as he requested.
I am so sorry that this happened to you, truly, I am. I may think differently it that was to of happend to me. On the other hand, if you would of had a gun at your disposal it may not of happened.
My disdain for guns is a result of having one at my head and being hit with it several times during a robbery while I was an assistant manager at a Ralph's in the 1980's. BTW, this robber purchased the gun legally. I guess it was his "right" to bear arms and pistol whip others. The scarey part came later when this guy did end up shooting someone that did not do exactly as he requested.
I am so sorry that this happened to you, truly, I am. I may think differently it that was to of happend to me. On the other hand, if you would of had a gun at your disposal it may not of happened.
Back in the 80's legally buying a gun was walking into Turners and purchasing one. Nowadays it's with a background check and 10 day cooling off/waiting period.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 11:23AM
BBB wrote ...
BRad, let's talk with the parents of the victims of Columbine, Virginia Tech, Jonesboro (Arkansas), and others that have had legally bought guns take away their loved ones. I don't personally care if it's 1:1000 (which I doubt), the risk is too high and the laws just allow too many freakazoids to have guns. If the society I live in needs the citizens to arm themselves to survive as you so state, then that's one society I would rather not exist in. As Cat pointed out, we don't need guns here in BB. THat is one reason I live here. I am perplexed how you and Dennis K don't understand that guns kill and most homocides from guns are from someone the victim knew. The rest of the civilized world is wrong and the minority of want it all gun slinging yahoos in the USA are right....OK, you have your opinion and I have mine....
BRad, let's talk with the parents of the victims of Columbine, Virginia Tech, Jonesboro (Arkansas), and others that have had legally bought guns take away their loved ones. I don't personally care if it's 1:1000 (which I doubt), the risk is too high and the laws just allow too many freakazoids to have guns. If the society I live in needs the citizens to arm themselves to survive as you so state, then that's one society I would rather not exist in. As Cat pointed out, we don't need guns here in BB. THat is one reason I live here. I am perplexed how you and Dennis K don't understand that guns kill and most homocides from guns are from someone the victim knew. The rest of the civilized world is wrong and the minority of want it all gun slinging yahoos in the USA are right....OK, you have your opinion and I have mine....
All examples of un-responsible gun ownership. Glad we agree. I hope the parents were held liable, which I am sure they were. Guns should be locked in a safe if you have children. And guns don't kill, they have no feeling, people kill people.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 11:28AM
BBB wrote ...
Not one single one of my friends in BB have guns.
Not one single one of my friends in BB have guns.
This very much saddens me to hear, I always considered myself, and probably others on this board to be your friend, now I truely see where we all stand.
Re: Gun ownership
MIKE, Tue Feb 12 2008, 11:39AM
Benny wrote ...
This very much saddens me to hear, I always considered myself, and probably others on this board to be your friend, now I truely see where we all stand.
BBB wrote ...
Not one single one of my friends in BB have guns.
Not one single one of my friends in BB have guns.
This very much saddens me to hear, I always considered myself, and probably others on this board to be your friend, now I truely see where we all stand.
I was thinking of the same exact thing Benny.
Wanna see my rack again?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 12:07PM
MIKE wrote ...
I was thinking of the same exact thing Benny.
Wanna see my rack again?
Benny wrote ...
This very much saddens me to hear, I always considered myself, and probably others on this board to be your friend, now I truely see where we all stand.
BBB wrote ...
Not one single one of my friends in BB have guns.
Not one single one of my friends in BB have guns.
This very much saddens me to hear, I always considered myself, and probably others on this board to be your friend, now I truely see where we all stand.
I was thinking of the same exact thing Benny.
Wanna see my rack again?
I smell another SCM shooting event in the works.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 12:27PM
MIKE wrote ...
I was thinking of the same exact thing Benny.
Wanna see my rack again?
Benny wrote ...
This very much saddens me to hear, I always considered myself, and probably others on this board to be your friend, now I truely see where we all stand.
BBB wrote ...
Not one single one of my friends in BB have guns.
Not one single one of my friends in BB have guns.
This very much saddens me to hear, I always considered myself, and probably others on this board to be your friend, now I truely see where we all stand.
I was thinking of the same exact thing Benny.
Wanna see my rack again?
Never throught I'd say this to a guy before, but, nice rack!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 12:30PM
bills grandson wrote ...
Bmatheny
be careful throwing around the dennis's, there are two here and it gets confusing which one you are talking about
I know this will be lost on some, since they seem to have trouble with a few sentances, but it makes sense to me
[Click Here]
Bmatheny
be careful throwing around the dennis's, there are two here and it gets confusing which one you are talking about
I know this will be lost on some, since they seem to have trouble with a few sentances, but it makes sense to me
[Click Here]
Dennis, Excellent reading my friend and SO TRUE!!! I would like to post a section of that link to help restate my position on this topic.
--------------------------- ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------- --------------------------------
Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.
If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church. They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs. Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"
Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.
Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"
It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.
Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you
are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.
Gavin de Becker puts it like this in 'Fear Less', his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."
Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.
And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.
If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself..."Baa."
----------------- ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------- ----------------------------------- -------
Your Faithful Sheepdog.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 12:39PM
"Baa!" Hahaha. Good one, thanks for sharing that guys! Insightful perspective.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 12 2008, 01:00PM
Mike, +1 what Benny said
Bmath, how true those words are.
"The problem with ‘post-modern’ society is there are too many people with nothing meaningful to do, building ‘careers’ around controlling the lives of others and generally making social nuisances of themselves. They justify their meddling by discovering social ‘problems’ and getting the media to magnify them out of all proportion."
-Graham Strachan
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 01:44PM
Here are some interesting FACTS that might interest Moose and BBB...
--------------------------- --------------------------------
Policy analysts seeking to assess the relative costs and benefits of gun control sometimes simplify their task by assuming that gun ownership has no significant benefits, beyond the relatively minor ones of recreational enjoyment of shooting sports like hunting. Under this assumption, it is unnecessary to show that a given law produces a large reduction in violence, since even one life saved would surely outweigh the supposedly negligible benefits of gun ownership. This simplification, however, is unrealistic, because it erroneously assumes that gun ownership and use has no defensive or deterrent value, and thus no potential for preventing deaths or injuries.
Each year about 1500-2800 criminals are lawfully killed by gun-wielding American civilians in justifiable or excusable homicides, far more than are killed by police officers. There are perhaps 600,000-1 million defensive uses of guns each year, about the same as the number of crimes committed with guns. These astounding totals may be less surprising in light of the following facts. About a third of U.S. households keep a gun at least partially for defensive reasons; at any one time nearly a third of gun owners have a firearm in their home (usually a handgun) which is loaded; about a quarter of retail businesses have a gun on the premises; and perhaps 5% of U.S. adults regularly carry a gun for self-defense.
Keeping a gun for home defense makes most defensive gun owners feel safer, and most also believe they are safer because they have a gun. The belief is not necessarily a delusion. People who use guns for self-protection in robberies and assaults are less likely to have the crime completed against them (in a robbery, this means losing their property), and, contrary to widespread belief, are less likely to be injured, compared to either victims who use other forms of resistance or to victims who do nothing to resist. (Criminals take the gun away from the victim in less than 1% of these incidents.) The evidence does not support the idea that nonresistance is safer than resisting with a gun.
Defensive uses of guns most often occur in circumstances where the victims are likely to have access to their guns, mostly in their homes or places of business. Thus, defensive gun uses are most commonly linked with assaults in the home (presumably mostly domestic violence), commercial robberies, and residential burglaries.
The fact that armed victims can effectively disrupt crimes suggests that widespread civilian gun ownership might also deter some criminals from attempting crimes in the first place. There probably will never be definitive evidence on this deterrence question, since it revolves around the issue of how many crimes do not occur because of victim gun ownership. However, scattered evidence is consistent with a deterrence hypothesis. In prison surveys criminals report that they have refrained from committing crimes because they thought a victim might have a gun. "Natural experiments" indicate that rates of "gun deterrable" crimes have declined after various highly publicized incidents related to victim gun use, including gun training programs, incidents of defensive gun use, and passage of a law which required household gun ownership. Widespread gun ownership may also deter burglars from entering occupied homes, reducing confrontations with residents, and thereby reducing deaths and injuries. U.S. burglars are far less likely to enter occupied premises than burglars in nations with lower gun ownership.
Gun use by private citizens against violent criminals and burglars is common and about as frequent as legal actions like arrests, is a more prompt negative consequence of crime than legal punishment, and is more severe, at its most serious, than legal system punishments. On the other hand, only a small percentage of criminal victimizations transpire in a way that results in defensive gun use; guns certainly are not usable in all crime situations. Victim gun use is associated with lower rates of assault or robbery victim injury and lower rates of robbery completion than any other defensive action or doing nothing to resist. Serious predatory criminals perceive a risk from victim gun use which is roughly comparable to that of criminal justice system actions, and this perception may influence their criminal behavior in socially desirable ways.
The most parsimonious way of linking these previously uncon- nected and unknown or obscure facts is to tentatively conclude that civilian ownership and defensive use of guns deters violent crime and reduces burglar-linked injuries.
Rates of commercial robbery, residential burglary injury, and rape might be still higher than their already high levels were it not for the dangerousness of the prospective victim population. Gun ownership among prospective victims may well have as large a crime-inhibiting effect as any crime-generating effects of gun possession among prospective criminals. This could account for the failure of researchers to find a significant net relationship between rates of crime like homicide and robbery, and measures of general gun ownership - the two effects may roughly cancel each other out. Guns are potentially lethal weapons whether wielded by criminals or victims. They are frightening and intimidating to those they are pointed at, whether these be predators or the preyed upon. Guns thereby empower both those who would use them to victimize and those who would use them to prevent their victimi- zation. Consequently, they are a source of both social order and disorder, depending on who uses them, just as is true of the use of force in general.
--------------------------------- --------------------------
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 01:46PM
More interesting facts...
In 1985, about 31,600 persons were killed with guns, and perhaps another 130,000 people suffered nonfatal gunshot wounds. The majority of the deaths, 55%, were suicides, rather than criminal homicides. Only 37% were homicides, 5% were fatal gun accidents, and 1.5% each were due to legal intervention (police officers killing suspects in the line of duty) and to death where it was undetermined whether injury was intentionally or accidentally inflicted. Among all deaths due to "external cause," i.e. accident, suicide or homicide, guns were involved in 22% of them, handguns in about 13% of them. The majority of all gun deaths involve handguns, mainly because 79% of the gun homicide deaths involved handguns. Guns were involved in 1.5% of all deaths, from all causes, in 1985. They were involved in 59% of suicides, 60% of homicides, and 1.8% of accidental deaths in 1985.
There were also over 650,000 violent crimes involving guns in some way in 1985, over 540,000 of them (82%) involving handguns. Guns were involved in about 12% of all violent crime, and handguns in about 10%. The majority of the gun crimes were assaults, mostly threats without any injury or any element of theft or rape.
---------------------------- -----------------------------
There were probably over 200 million guns in private hands in the U.S. by 1990, about a third of them handguns. One straightforward policy implication is that policies which seek to reduce gun violence by reducing the overall supply of guns, as distinct from reducing the number possessed just by high-risk subsets of the population, face an enormous obstacle in this huge existing stock. Even if further additions to the stock could somehow be totally and immediately stopped, the size of the stock and durability of guns imply that, in the absence of mass confiscations or unlikely voluntary surrenders of guns, it might be decades before any perceptible impact of a supply-reduction strategy became apparent.
Gun ownership increased from the 1960's through the 1980's, especially handgun ownership. Some of the increase was due to the formation of new households and to growing affluence enabling gun owners to acquire still more guns; however, a substantial share of the increase was also a response to rising crime rates among people who previously did not own guns. Most handguns are owned for defensive reasons, and many people get guns in response to high or rising crime rates. Therefore, part of the positive association sometimes observed between gun ownership levels and crime rates is due to the effect of the latter on the former, rather than the reverse. Nevertheless, most guns, especially long guns, are owned primarily for recreational reasons unconnected with crime.
From the mid-1960's to the mid-1980's, scattered evidence strongly suggests that, while gun ownership increased in general, it did so even more among criminals and violence-prone people than it did among the nonviolent majority of the population. Because these "high-risk" groups are largely unrepresented in national surveys, this would partially account for the fact that household gun prevalence in national surveys remained fairly constant during this period, despite huge additions to the total stock of privately owned guns
Re: Gun ownership
Moose Drool, Tue Feb 12 2008, 02:10PM
Bamth, dude ... pace yourself; I'd hate to see you blow a gasket. Relax while we take a musical interlude:
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 02:34PM
Moose, I'm just finding interesting information as I work away over here.
Don't mind me over here. You go back to promoting Hillary and her "full of crap" promises with regards to these elections.
-- Oh, and check your glasses when you have a minute. You should know how to spell my name by now. Maybe you have left over Barista shmegma on them or something??
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 12 2008, 02:45PM
I just relized why Moose feels this why about guns, he's a democrat. And working for the scariest one out there right now, just so you know I won't be voting for any of the democrats that may make it to November. And yes I'm watching to see which republican gets the nod for November too.
Sorry if that is profiling but the dem's want to take away our guns, period.
Good song Moose.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Tue Feb 12 2008, 02:50PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
-- Oh, and check your glasses when you have a minute. You should know how to spell my name by now. Maybe you have left over Barista shmegma on them or something??
-- Oh, and check your glasses when you have a minute. You should know how to spell my name by now. Maybe you have left over Barista shmegma on them or something??
BWAHAHAHAHAAA!!
He said...Barista
shmegma!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 12 2008, 03:01PM
I wonder if Hillary and Bill make their secret service people leave their toys at home?
I know they want to take them from the military.
Re: Gun ownership
Winkie, Tue Feb 12 2008, 03:10PM
bkap wrote ...
Okay, in another post the question was raised about how people feel about gun ownership.
So here is the question; Do you feel American’s should own guns.
I'll start another one about the type of and how many you have.
Yes or no
YES!
edit: I should have had a poll on this.
Okay, in another post the question was raised about how people feel about gun ownership.
So here is the question; Do you feel American’s should own guns.
I'll start another one about the type of and how many you have.
Yes or no
YES!
edit: I should have had a poll on this.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 12 2008, 03:19PM
Thanks BDZ.
Re: Gun ownership
Moose Drool, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:09PM
Hey look ... I was wondering when Luna was going to join in.
bkap wrote ...
I just relized why Moose feels this why about guns, he's a democrat. And working for the scariest one out there right now, just so you know I won't be voting for any of the democrats that may make it to November. And yes I'm watching to see which republican gets the nod for November too.
Sorry if that is profiling but the dem's want to take away our guns, period.
Good song Moose.
I just relized why Moose feels this why about guns, he's a democrat. And working for the scariest one out there right now, just so you know I won't be voting for any of the democrats that may make it to November. And yes I'm watching to see which republican gets the nod for November too.
Sorry if that is profiling but the dem's want to take away our guns, period.
Good song Moose.
Now gentlemen, bkap's remarks raises an interesting question about the assumptions you've been making; and actually was part of the point I originally tried to make with my first post in the Bill of Rights thread.
Before I get to that however, let me compliment bc for halfway getting us to a bit of understanding about the Second Amendment . Look at my first post after bc's regarding the language of the Second Amendment. bc tossed out an interesting and valuable point about what was inserted into that language and why it was inserted. (If you know your history you'll recognize it straight away.) But with all due respect to a later bc post, there is a difference between the "forefathers" and the "framers," and the records of the framer's debates, as far as the courts are concerned. Bkap quoted a lot of forefathers but only one framer and sourced to a an actual debate. Unfortunately, that quote is not dispositive to the argument before the courts and adds nothing to understanding the historical context of said issue. And as an aside, if you would have bothered to read the court briefs you would have learned the history of how the current case made its way to the Supreme Court, and who "messed" with the law.
Now back to bkap's posting above: You, Bmath (spelled it right this time) Dennis, and a few others were so busy ranting and raving that you assumed facts not in evidence about my position on the Second Amendment and gun ownership. Go back and read what I've written in both threads: Have I said what my position is?
You don't know me and instead of addressing the merits of what I wrote, you resorted to petty labels designed to deride.
... and you wonder why the government, the congress, and the Senate can't get the people's business done? Because they're behaving like you.
So here's the deal, you can go [censored] yourselves.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:34PM
Moose Drool wrote ...
You don't know me and instead of addressing the merits of what I wrote, you resorted to petty labels designed to deride.
... and you wonder why the government, the congress, and the Senate can't get the people's business done? Because they're behaving like you.
So here's the deal, you can go [censored] yourselves.
You don't know me and instead of addressing the merits of what I wrote, you resorted to petty labels designed to deride.
... and you wonder why the government, the congress, and the Senate can't get the people's business done? Because they're behaving like you.
So here's the deal, you can go [censored] yourselves.
Other than the "F-BOMB" laid into me/us at the end of Moose's comments (way to show some balls buddy!!), he is 100% right - I DON'T KNOW HIM AND DID NOT READ ALL OF THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS he linked into SCM to support his position.
To that extent, I am no lawyer and will TRY to get thru to the CONTENT of the documents over the next few days. This will give me a better understanding of his position. He obviously makes assumptions as to "my positioning" because as he stated 100% correctly "I don't know him" and THUS - he does not know me!!
Therefore, we are left with only the "F-BOMB" leveled so "manly" at a few of the members of SCM. What to do? ... oh, what to do??
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:36PM
The wording of the Second is REALLY frustrating. I've only had one problem with it, namely the last comma. It's barely visible because of fading in the original document, but it is there. Sadly, it adds confusion when trying to parse the statement ... as if there weren't already enough confusion. The folks who basically want the Second to disappear, and use language to make it happen, need to be very very careful, 'cuz a lot of other laws will have to change if they get their way.
I'm really old and tired of the issue. Regardless how it turns out, I WILL keep and bear arms, and if they aren't firearms, they'll be something else ... tsk tsk.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:36PM
bills grandson wrote ...
I wonder if Hillary and Bill make their secret service people leave their toys at home?
I know they want to take them from the military.
I wonder if Hillary and Bill make their secret service people leave their toys at home?
I know they want to take them from the military.
Someone I know could call them and ask for you - this friend trains the Secret Service regarding "Electronic Forensics"?
Re: Gun ownership
JohnnyT (K7JNT), Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:48PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
Therefore, we are left with only the "F-BOMB" leveled so "manly" at a few of the members of SCM. What to do? ... oh, what to do??
Therefore, we are left with only the "F-BOMB" leveled so "manly" at a few of the members of SCM. What to do? ... oh, what to do??
What to do? I ignore him. I enjoy stimulating debates with people of other political and philosophical orientations, but anyone who resorts to this, or worse, going back and removing their own comments after a lively discussion ( [Click Here] ) is IMO immature sour grapes. So I don't bother.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:50PM
Where's abomb when ya need him?!??!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 12 2008, 04:58PM
JohnnyT wrote ...
What to do? I ignore him. I enjoy stimulating debates with people of other political and philosophical orientations, but anyone who resorts to this, or worse, going back and removing their own comments after a lively discussion ( [Click Here] ) is IMO immature sour grapes. So I don't bother.
Bmatheny wrote ...
Therefore, we are left with only the "F-BOMB" leveled so "manly" at a few of the members of SCM. What to do? ... oh, what to do??
Therefore, we are left with only the "F-BOMB" leveled so "manly" at a few of the members of SCM. What to do? ... oh, what to do??
What to do? I ignore him. I enjoy stimulating debates with people of other political and philosophical orientations, but anyone who resorts to this, or worse, going back and removing their own comments after a lively discussion ( [Click Here] ) is IMO immature sour grapes. So I don't bother.
JohnnyT, this is WAY OFF TOPIC - but you gotta love it. This is Allen at his best discussing/moderating an "Al Gore" thread from about a year ago.. Read and smile....
------------------------ ----------------------------------- --------
One study suggests that Al Gore produces enough methane gas via oral flatulance (AKA Fartspeak) to power his own agenda/ego in one speech for one year. So he is totally independent of fossil fuel consumption. Give him a break, besides you don't want to disturb him while he's (re)-counting! One, two, twelve, fifteen, I win!!!
And using "Conservative" sources for facts is a no-no, pull up your pants your bias is showing. My minds made up, don't try to confuse me with the facts!
------>----->----> Political fartspeak.------------------------ ----------------------------------- --------------
Thanks JohnnyT, I needed that!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 12 2008, 05:34PM
Bmatheny
the secret service question dosen't need and answer. I'm sure they wouldn't be there if they wern't packing. Though they may, or may not catch the bullet. I'm sure they will get the shooter.
I really hadn't thought there was any ranting being done on this or the other thread. Just interesting discussion. Untill we all got splattered. Now I know why there is plastic in front of the monkey cage.
Debbie
I meant that with the utmost respect.
I know a woman who is proud to be an atholian
Jim Bollingmo used to carry uzi's in the alpine center untill he succumbed to all the BBB & drool thrown at him.
I happen to think government is doing some of their best work when they do nothing.
as far as the explative.
nobody can love someone else unless they first love themselves
As far as reading your talking points I'm sorry (other) Dennis I am trying to watch my cholesterol and have heard it all before and found your story and framer, forefather BS to be typical political garbage. We are talking about the same people and there have always been Kennedy types around. Luckily they have been the minority.
your really not advancing your position by letting everyone know you are a trekky.
Everyone knows and understand what the Constitution says, and means. The attempts by some to change it to fit their own ideas don't fly.
I have no idea why some people (on both sides) want to destroy the greatest country in the world
Wait untill the convention and your candidate tries to steal the primary from the real winner.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Feb 12 2008, 05:42PM
YES
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Tue Feb 12 2008, 05:59PM
Where can we send some money to Teddy K. for gas? I would love to see him drive her home after the party and a midnight swim. That is the best joke I have seen about that drag queen.
Re: Gun ownership
david, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:21PM
Chocolate is good
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:27PM
Vanilla is better, with a little chocolate on top.
Wait. That came out wrong with those photos just above. Where's John Edwards when you need him, dammit?
Re: Gun ownership
MIKE, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:41PM
Bmatheny sorry I can not read posts that long. I kept falling asleep.
Oh and I forgot.
YES
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:49PM
Just got back from North Carolina. While there I went to the swap meet and purchased an almost new 30-30 for $225 right off the tailgate of one of the local farmers. Probably over 50 guns for sale and no government checks or waiting periods
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:53PM
A few years ago I could have bought a wells fargo style 12 gauge for a couple hundred dollars, and a sharps 50 cal. about the same, but didn't have the money.
My rifle in the picture is a marlin 30 30, not as sexy as the others but good enough.
Re: Gun ownership
Denver, Tue Feb 12 2008, 06:54PM
david wrote ...
Chocolate is good
Chocolate is good
Especially in brownies.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:00PM
brownies are too young 18 yrs. in California
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:04PM
Wal-Mart in Redlands has ammo on sale
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:08PM
I may never sleep again.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:11PM
better stock up before they put the powder with a shelf life in it.
now they want the guns to be able to imprint the bullet as it is fired with distinctive marckers. So they can trace every bullit fired by it's id number.
way beyond what they can do now.
don't worry inky were all pussycats here.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:18PM
Inky you would make a good candidate for guard duty if you can't sleep. I had the hardest time staying awake in the middle of the desert guarding palets full of 500 lb bombs by myself in the middle of the night. Only thing that kept me awake was shooting the .45 at a flashlight lit can for hours on end.
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Tue Feb 12 2008, 07:57PM
here's proof that not everyone should own a gun! (this is in no way a statement of my opinion i just thought it was funny)
Re: Gun ownership
Clint, Tue Feb 12 2008, 09:43PM
I LOVE MY GUNS AND NO,YOU WILL NOT TAKE THEM AWAY FROM ME.
WHAT'S THE OLD SAYING? "YOU CAN HAVE MY
GUN(S) WHEN YOU PRY IT FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" ?
WORKS FOR ME
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Feb 12 2008, 09:54PM
Ok well everyone has opinion on guns. I don't have a gun. I think guns are for people who are full of fear.
Re: Gun ownership
Blakey, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:09PM
i know some of this is probably repetitive, but its hard to read 10 pages at once for me haha...
Own guns - YES
Gun control - who's gonna listen to that? the criminals? i think not!!
has anyone addressed the fact that the countries who adopted gun control have a higher murder rate?
ohh...and...wikiwowowow (see link below)
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Blakey, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:15PM
ohh
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:53PM
Benny wrote ...
This very much saddens me to hear, I always considered myself, and probably others on this board to be your friend, now I truely see where we all stand.
BBB wrote ...
Not one single one of my close friends (not on SCM )in BB have guns.
Not one single one of my close friends (not on SCM
)in BB have guns.This very much saddens me to hear, I always considered myself, and probably others on this board to be your friend, now I truely see where we all stand.
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Feb 12 2008, 10:55PM
Cat wrote ...
Ok well everyone has opinion on guns. I don't have a gun. I think guns are for people who are full of fear.
Ok well everyone has opinion on guns. I don't have a gun. I think guns are for people who are full of fear.
I think you are right!
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed Feb 13 2008, 12:26AM
Well Cat and BBB, you're wrong in my case ... and my brothers', my father's, my grandfather's, great grandfathers', uncles', etc. My information stops about the time the families came to this country in the 1600's. We've all kept them, used them, and indeed some also carried them into war. Didn't know my great grandfather, but I know what he did. None of us owned arms out of fear. I only know my own psychology, and fear has nothing to do with my life long interest in what people generally call "arms" of all kinds. The vast majority of things that scare me can't be, or aren't appropriately, dealt with by "arms". In fact, owning them is just one more thing to worry about; but so is owning a car, and a car is way more scary!
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Wed Feb 13 2008, 06:20AM
Blakey wrote ...
ohh
ohh
stud
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Wed Feb 13 2008, 09:34AM
That was fummy mel!
The first time I fired a shotgun It knocked me right on my tush! That was about 30 years ago...haven't stopped shooting since. Although, loading and firing the clay launcher is easier on my sholder these days!Re: Gun ownership
dd, Wed Feb 13 2008, 11:05AM
Ok. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The fact that the opinions may be different doesn't make anyone better or worse than anyone else. Let's all be friends here. So when is the next SCM shooting event? Oh, in answer to the original question. I'll never tell.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 13 2008, 12:34PM
dd wrote ...
Ok. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The fact that the opinions may be different doesn't make anyone better or worse than anyone else. Let's all be friends here. So when is the next SCM shooting event? Oh, in answer to the original question. I'll never tell.
Ok. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The fact that the opinions may be different doesn't make anyone better or worse than anyone else. Let's all be friends here. So when is the next SCM shooting event? Oh, in answer to the original question. I'll never tell.
Let me know thru a pm at least a week before it is going to happen so as not to upset our friends that don't shoot.
I respect all of the peoples opinion here, those that shoot and those that don't.
Please remember that this is a discussion amoung FRIENDS.
I'm glad it got heated but not happy that it got nasty.
One of our other rights is freedom of speech and that is what this is all about.
Peace to all
Re: Gun ownership
, Wed Feb 13 2008, 02:01PM
BKap, I think I am the lone ranger (maybe Cat too) who said he did not shoot or own guns. I really think the problem in miscommunications escalated when WRONG assumptions were made instead of getting cold, hard facts. If you are anyone else wants to go shooting in a legal manner I have no problem with that as long as my peace, tranquility, and rights are not compromised. The only negative comment I ever made about going shooting was questioning of bringing a dog along shooting. I sometimes care more about the four legged guys than the two legged ones....
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 13 2008, 02:36PM
BBB, I think you do not have to worry about the members of this site doing anything illegal. We that do like to shoot I've found are more worried about preserving the outdoors then harming it. When a hunting licence is bought the money(is supposed to) goes to the upkeep of wetlands and habitat for wild animals. Hunters spend more on conservation then any other group.
So in other words yes we care about animals too.
In no way would any responsible shooter shoot where someone could be injured or killed or privet property be damaged. It's just not what we do.
On another site some guy was talking about how he was up in BB and went shooting down in Cactus Flats he got an ear full from 4 wheelers and others about going outside a designated shooting area and the damage he could have inflicted on people that did not know he was shooting in that area.
so no hard feelings and a friendly handshake to you.
bkap
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 13 2008, 02:39PM
I think some of you have the wrong idea.
I think other Dennis, Brandon and the others should be invited as special guests to see, and if they want to shoot.
They may realize that most gun people are just like them.
no targtes with bill, hillary, bush or them.
I think over the years I have changed many minds and shown them they have nothiing to fear.
I can't think of one that didn't shoot and have fun.
I don't know if any bought a weapon but they learned the basics and if they came across a weapon they could put it on safe remove shells without fear. people without knowledge are by far more dangerous around weapons then any of us (an assumption based soley on the posts on these threads).
There are a lot of people with guns that scare me. not because of their guns but their ideas.
When I was in high school we had a substute teacher who was probably the most respected pistol shooter in the world, wrote several books and many columns, & became an editor for NRA opened what is still the most popular training area for law enforcement, military, and citizen's that I know of.
his politics bothered me he was so far right. Otherwise he was a great guy
He was a blast as a teacher because someone would ask a question about guns or cars and there was no more school that class. probably not fun for the girls, but the guys had fun.
Ran into a couple of guys at cactus flats many years ago that I always kept an eye on. They were into reloading and I still have some hot 357 mag shell I bought from them those things are awsome.
As to bbb's remark about dogs and shooting. I am not sure if we took them shooting we had beagles that my dad wanted to use for bear hunting and they went a few time but ran off chasing rabbits and we spent most of our hunting time hunting for them. the only danger I would see for them would be their ears I don't understand any other concern.
I do know that dogs that have never been around a gun are afraid of them.
I also don't understand how you would allow us to shoot, but not own guns. Or to use them to protect ourselves in our homes. Come to think about "we" have seldom mentioned guns anywhere but our homes, hunting, & plinking.
would those uses be O.K. by you?
Re: Gun ownership
, Wed Feb 13 2008, 02:59PM
Dennis, something tells me that Moose knows all about using a gun already. There are several reasons you'll never catch me at a shooting range (my ears are sensitive to noises being one). IMO, children and pets should not be around while shooting.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 13 2008, 03:12PM
the hearing is a problem that can me mitigated. Too late for me but not all my fault.
Maybe I can sue remington for not having a disclaimer on the shells.
children I can understand but there is a time that they should be included when they show the maturity.
dogs under most circumstances I would not bring along but they love to hunt with us. That is what they were created for.
Please don't bring your little yappy dog if we go shooting.
tell ya what you go shoot with me and I'll kiss your chicken ( you that haven't been following along, that isn't what you may think)
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 07:20PM
Being in Law Enforcement, I wanted to put in my two cents as well (albeit short).
From my perspective working the streets, it can be a very serious situation rolling to a scene where people are armed, and you have no clue as to who the suspect and victims are. That includes off-duty personnel in plain clothes. I have ordered a few officers/deputies to drop their guns until I can verify their identity. Once the situation has stabilized, that can easily be done. Unfortunately, some citizens (and even officers) don't understand the responding deputies position until it is fully explained.
From a personal standpoint, I think every responsible, non-criminal, LEGAL citizen should be allowed to carry a weapon. This would prevent many of these scumbag criminals from committing violent crimes against innocent people. I can't tell you how many incidents I have responded to where if someone had been armed, the situation might have turned out different. Could it have been worse? Sure. Could it have saved lives? You bet!!
Me, I have gotten in a bad habit of not carrying off duty. I need to carry more. For the protection of me, my family, and my fellow man (and woman). I am very cautious though on using that weapon. If the suspect is not shooting or violently harming someone, I probably would take no action. Just be a great witness. But if things go bad, I would not hesitate. I have been in an officer involved shooting and would not hesistate one bit if the situation demands that type of action. Then I just have to worry about responding officers mistaking me for a bad guy!!!!
....And Bmatheny explained things very well in his earlier reply.
I will get off my little soapbox now
Re: Gun ownership
, Wed Feb 13 2008, 07:46PM
Code 2892....You and other pol;ice officers have actual situation training to know what to do and how to react. The average schmo who sports a gun for shooting at tin cans and tree branches does not. They might overreact and shoot innocent people in their fear of the situation. While they are reaching for their gun they might be blown away as the gunman sees them moving to get something. I am thankful I did not have a gun in my armed robbery. I might not be here today if I was reaching for something.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 07:56PM
BBB...you are absolutely right. But what if (and I know, we can "what if" things to death) that suspect had started shooting? Sure, some people would probably be shot. But at least the suspect could be eliminated before killing numerous citizens. Both sides have very valid points. I am just so tired of seeing innocent people becoming victims and statistics.
Just like the woman in Lake Elsinore who, along with her baby, gave two girls a ride in her vehicle. The girls decided to car jack her. They shot her in the head, dumped her body out of the car, and fled, with the baby. They dumped the baby a short time later. How different could that have been had she been armed? Could it have been the same? Sure. Could we have two dead suspects and a baby with her mother still? Absolutely.
And I can't even beging to tell you how many guns I have obtained from suspects that were stolen, obtained through drug trade, etc. etc. Take away our ability to protect ourselves but the criminals will always be able to continue arming themselves.
Sheeps and Wolves....
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:12PM
Good discussion gang. Sure cops, are taught to deal with situations, but I would argue in 99% of them, each one will be different and un-predictable, surely no 2 alike. I do not have a concealed weapons permit, but should I feel the need I'll get one, I may. And BBB in order for that in the state of CA you have to also take a seperate course in dealing with situations of the sort. I assure you for me it would certainly be an absolute last call to draw a weapon. Hence the responsibility codes of going through the process, taking a test, knowing the ramifications, etc. I consider myself a stable person who would not go off the deep end and over react or do something to further endanger myself or anyone around me given a/the situation, only to stop one. Surely there are arguments on both sides. Could I be crazy and go postal, no, but obviously everyone is different. Hence the hoops they make you jump through to get a gun. And if you buy it off the black market, it's not going to make a difference, there's alterior motives, so nothing will change and this is an open ended arguement.
So the question remains, should responsible citizens be allowed to carry a weapon, I say yes. They are in several states.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:21PM
.......I say yes as well.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:22PM
rolncode
sheeps, wolves & sheepdogs
thank you for your input.
BBB will not be convinced.
everyone has to be cautious when an officer shows up, if they are armed or not..
I would hate your job in today's world. I have noticed such a change to where an officer is afraid on a minor traffic stop anymore.
didn't used to be that way. I can remember when you waved your whole hand as a cop passed.
Big bear was great duty at that time . if someone threw an egg at a cop car on holloween they would stop and throw some back.
we knew them they knew us and they knew the few they would have to keep an eye on.
I assume your SB county. do you know if a carry permit that has been issued in the county has ever been abused?
I can't think of any.
and thank you for your service
and as sgt, Esterhaus would say
be careful out there
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:28PM
Double what you said Dennis! There was a time cops were treated like fireman, all respected, everybody loved, now it seems like people are afraid of them. Mainly because if they're coming to visit, you've done something wrong, which is so not the case. We usually only hear about the bad, since anything you see on tv involves cops anymore, when in reality they are there to protect and serve. So remember, next time you pull me over for speeding I am paying your wage!!
But actually, to get someone to change their mind, is like trying to make someone believe if god, if they don't believe you'll never change their mind, to beleive in something they don't, or have faith in. It's just some peoples ways.
Ask a Republican to vote Democrat, I would, only if I believed in that person.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:42PM
Well thank you Bills grandson!
Actually, I do not work for SB County. I did back in the late 90's but left to work in Riverside County.
But to answer your question, I have never heard of a CCW being abused in SB County. And I have never heard of one being revoked for that reason either.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:46PM
Thanks for what you do Richard. Like the profile pic, cool! You a K-9 unit?
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:49PM
Thanks Benny.
I was a K-9 handler from 2004 to 2007. I was promoted and my dog retired with me. Here is a picture I took of him earlier this week.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 13 2008, 08:59PM
good looking shepard.
my mom was dispatcher for colton PD and brought home a shepard that was adrop out from the training prigram.
took awhile before he decided I belonged . Most protective and faithful do I ever saw. one friend could get close because he had a leg in a cast and the dog didn't like his tast.
have you worked Palm Desert at all?
I worked for awhile at Baker square where they hung out.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Wed Feb 13 2008, 10:17PM
Never worked the desert, just went out there for training a few times. I work on the west side of the county.
My dog is still very protective eventhough he has been off the streets for over a year. He would go to work tomorrow if given the opportunity. He still has lots of drive and energy!!
Re: Gun ownership
spectr17, Wed Feb 13 2008, 10:54PM
Put me down as a sheepdog.
My old neighbor was an antigunner, right up until the Rodney King riots. I found him dancing on my porch the night the riots started. He wanted to borrow a gun since he had to drive into L.A. the next day. I hated to tell him I couldn't loan him a gun since I might need all of mine. I reminded him of the 10 day wait to get a pistol, a law he was in favor of in the past. He was a bit shaken when he left. His very antigun wife had a cow when she found out what he was up to.
As I recall during the King riots there was one attempt in San Berdoo to loot a market. A big crowd armed with bats bum rushed the security guard who calmly shot the riot leader right betweenst the eyes. End of riot. Koreans also stood their ground to protect their businesses in L.A. Thank god our forefathers saw the need to be armed at certain times and ensured that right by writing the 2nd amendment.
Stay safe, stay armed.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 14 2008, 06:28AM
bills grandson wrote ...
rolncode
sheeps, wolves & sheepdogs
. I can remember when you waved your whole hand as a cop passed.
Big bear was great duty at that time . if someone threw an egg at a cop car on holloween they would stop and throw some back.
we knew them they knew us and they knew the few they would have to keep an eye on.
and thank you for your service
and as sgt, Esterhaus would say
be careful out there
rolncode
sheeps, wolves & sheepdogs
. I can remember when you waved your whole hand as a cop passed.
Big bear was great duty at that time . if someone threw an egg at a cop car on holloween they would stop and throw some back.
we knew them they knew us and they knew the few they would have to keep an eye on.
and thank you for your service
and as sgt, Esterhaus would say
be careful out there
YES! my dad got calls to tell me go down and get the speeding ticket they had waiting for me! or the times they would stop my neighbor who was drunk driving and drive him home to sleep it off, I have too many stories about fun in a small town. to this day I still respect the police and wish we could have the fun we use to have. They did their jobs and did not break heads unless it was needed.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Thu Feb 14 2008, 06:49AM
I bought my first pistol (.44 Mag) the day after the Rodney King riots from one of the guys that worked at the glass shop that I managed. I had to go to L,A. and board up broken windows. I had a screw gun in a holster on one side and the 44 on the other side. The police didn't have a problem at all with it as a matter of fact they were happy to see it. They locals we worked for were also happy to see it. Never had to use it but it is nice to have around just in case,
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 14 2008, 07:39AM
I wonder how many went out and bought guns after 9/11?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 14 2008, 08:09AM
I would just like to add that (I believe) carrying a weapon on your person (not concealed) is legal. You may be stopped and questioned by LE, but I've never had a problem with LE.
After the riots in LA and other places, it makes you think "would I be prepared to defend myself and my family?". My answer is "you bet".
Look at what happened after Katrina. That situation was nothing more than CRIMINALS taking advantage CITIZENS. The citizens that were able to protect their property and selfs were far better off than those who were not able.
One other thing I would like to add is that I've never thought of any police officer as a threat or a problem. Sure, I've had a few tickets, but I've never had anything to worry about with regards to LE. I think responsible citizens need to understand that if you are doing nothing wrong and treat the officer with respect - they in turn will treat you with respect.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Thu Feb 14 2008, 08:29AM
You are right Bmatheny. As long as its not concealed, its not illegal. Problem is, everyone is going to call 911 reporting a "man with a gun" I am sure it would be "suggested" by whatever responding agency not to do it.
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 10:05AM
If you live in the City or a town like BB all you would need or want a gun for is to have fun with it and go shooting. My parents live in AZ and have a gun in there house for protection. In my opinion its stupid. They don't even know how to use it.
My son in law is a hunter in Michigan. He gets there food supply for the year. My son is a cop also.
The only reason I would have a gun up here is fear and I've never thought of BB as a place to be afraid to live in.
Also I only say what Im thinking I really could careless if ya all have guns.
I've been shotting a few times and didn't care for it. Its loud and scary and I'm small and it knocks me around and the last gun I shot was a sawed off shot gun and my hand hurt for a month.
Not much fun IMO.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 14 2008, 10:19AM
a problem with carrying a weapon is that in a vehicle not only must a weapon be unloaded. (several second delay) but also ammo must be in a seperate compartment (i.e. trunk)(put yourself more at risk, and more delay).
And also they should be in the open, and in a locked box at the same time.
many people choose to have weapons that are not registered for many reasons that are very rational.
I have always got along with any police that I knew and have been helped many times .
I as a dumb kid was told that I had a warrant out on a ticket I had let go. and went down to the court and took care of it. saved everyone time and money.
found out early that "uncle" Jack Mathews was not as good a friend (possibly better) as I had thought. The only time I had to go before him for a traffic ticket.
I have seen cops I knew and loved harrass a guy on the street in Big Bear. One in San Bernardino threaten a homeless man, even been on the receiving end once down here.
It is a terrible job to have to deal with evil every day and feel they don't have respect of the majority of people as they seldom see them. I had a good friend who was shot by a BB cop and my only problem was that under the circumstance he should have killed him. Took a big risk to his partner and a restaurant full of people by only wounding him.
listened on a scanner as a deputies responded to a situation where a deputy had killed his wife and with great pain had to arrest him with compassion but no cover up.
listened again as A deputy who was gung ho and another officer were forced to kill a bank robbery suspect who was hiding in Big Bear.
It ruined him and I don't think he was ever able to work the street again.
One funny (for me) situation I heard a call to respond to a family dispute at my address but East, not West Aeroplane. A young cop responding to the call they fear more than any other. pulled up ouside my door and I watched him approach my door very carefuly through my lens in the door. When I opened I quickly explained his mistake and he immediatly thanked me and turned around to leave. I saw him take a couple of steps then saw his shoulders tightened while I'm sure he had a major pucker factor as he realized what a dumb thing he had just done.
I hope he learned from that mistake.
Again my respect and thanks to all police, and fire guys who follow this site.
I miss the big old shaggy sheepdog, but understand why he had to be replaced with a doberman as the size of the herd of sheep, and the ferocity of the wolves both increased.
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 10:29AM
Dennis, you actually unwittingly just revealed why everyone packing guns in the house might be wrong. You just stated your old address was ???W Aeroplane and the cop was upposed to go to ???E Aeroplane. What if that wasn't a cop, but rather somebody asked to come to a party? What if that person knocked incessantly at your door to the point you "felt" threatened? Do you get my drift?
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Feb 14 2008, 11:08AM
Say huh?
You don't friggin' shoot someone for knocking on your door. Sheesh, everybody knows that - or at least I thought that they did.
Lethal force is for protection of yourself and family when your LIFE is in imminent danger, like when a drug crazed meth head busts into your house in the middle of the night and you POSITIVELY CAN'T wait for LE, not for when someone knocks on the wrong door and it pisses you off.
Good gawd.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 14 2008, 12:49PM
sorry cat but Big Bear is no safer then anyplace else. It used to be but no more. In some ways even less.
Your parents should have training if they have a weapon
you have the right idea in not caring about "our" guns they should never pose a threat to you.
BBB
Did I say I shot the cop?
no I said he should have been more careful in trusting a possible suspect in a possibly dangerous situation.
I opened the door slowly with my hands in full sight but his mistake was in turning his back when I may have lied and had a gun in the back of my pants
Thats why they spend a lot of time in front of screens during training to prevent these situations
Your "innocent person" coming to a party would have had to explain to a locked solid core door. And would have been told he was in error.
If he persisted I would have armed myself (first) then called the sheriff. If he attempted to break down the door he would have probably got sufficent steps inside (to protect myself from arrest) and if the deputy had not arrived He would become a statistict or a prisoner (his choice) . and I would either meet the deputy outside, un armed hands in plain sight me under the porch light. or with a suspect held at gun point in a prone position and would then let him take command of the situation and put my gun down very slowly.
bullet holes through a door don't look good in court unless there are a few from outside also.
and I as well as everyone "get your drift" or should I say slant
yeah, what luna said.
I too would not advocate carrying a gun on your hip on the street. even though it may be leagle to do so.
just like kinky sex may be your right but you shouldn't flaunt it
but you are right in your opinion.
You should do your best to avoide putting a cop, or citizen in danger.
during watts, or Riot situations you should not be on the street.
I know it was awhile after Rodney King riots before cement truck drivers didn't carry guns.
stupid people burning down their town and taking pot shots at firmen trying to protect them.
then gripping when markets are reliuctant to rebuild.
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 03:22PM
Geez, guns are everywhere these days. Good thing Lisa Nowak was not allowed on any space mission wearing her adult pampers/Depends....
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 03:24PM
I wasn't aware that space had alien gang bangers...
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 03:54PM
The school shotting today should be enough to make people think about having guns.
If you thought that getting rid of your guns, that you use for recreation would stop a school shotting would you do it?
Would you stop hunting if you thought it would help?
This is why we don't need guns.
The only people that should have guns are cops.
But none of this will ever happen.
I remember in England the cops do not carry guns. I don't know if that is true today.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 14 2008, 04:47PM
cat, it is still that way, as a matter of fact the bobbies(I think thats what they are called) went to a crime scene and were shot at buy the criminals, they had to call for permission to GO get guns.
If you take away guns the only ones that will have them is the criminals.
Re: Gun ownership
Marty, Thu Feb 14 2008, 04:49PM
Unfortunately, there wasn't a cop in the classroom.
One could argue that if there were other armed people around this campus, someone may have been able to stop this guy.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 14 2008, 04:52PM
Yes the campus is a no gun zone. Not in your car, not in your room not on you even if you are a cop on campus but not on duty. I don't know if the security is allowed to carry guns.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Feb 14 2008, 05:00PM
bkap wrote ...
Yes the campus is a no gun zone. Not in your car, not in your room not on you even if you are a cop on campus but not on duty. I don't know if the security is allowed to carry guns.
Yes the campus is a no gun zone. Not in your car, not in your room not on you even if you are a cop on campus but not on duty. I don't know if the security is allowed to carry guns.
Hard to feel safe in a "No Gun Zone" after seeing what has happened time after time. They need to either make sure that those areas are safe or abandon that idea altogether.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 14 2008, 05:11PM
It is a sad day for all of us. It does not matter to someone that wants to harm others how they do it, they will find a way, be it knifes, swords, fire, bombs or guns. If they want to do something like this they will.
It saddens me to think that there was no help avalible in the area.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Feb 14 2008, 05:16PM
bkap wrote ...
It is a sad day for all of us. It does not matter to someone that wants to harm others how they do it, they will find a way, be it knifes, swords, fire, bombs or guns. If they want to do something like this they will.
It saddens me to think that there was no help avalible in the area.
It is a sad day for all of us. It does not matter to someone that wants to harm others how they do it, they will find a way, be it knifes, swords, fire, bombs or guns. If they want to do something like this they will.
It saddens me to think that there was no help avalible in the area.
Bingo. If it's not firearms it will be something else - maybe something much worse.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Thu Feb 14 2008, 05:23PM
Cat wrote ...
The school shotting today should be enough to make people think about having guns.
If you thought that getting rid of your guns, that you use for recreation would stop a school shotting would you do it?
Would you stop hunting if you thought it would help?
This is why we don't need guns.
The only people that should have guns are cops.
But none of this will ever happen.
I remember in England the cops do not carry guns. I don't know if that is true today.
The school shotting today should be enough to make people think about having guns.
If you thought that getting rid of your guns, that you use for recreation would stop a school shotting would you do it?
Would you stop hunting if you thought it would help?
This is why we don't need guns.
The only people that should have guns are cops.
But none of this will ever happen.
I remember in England the cops do not carry guns. I don't know if that is true today.
Quite to the contrary, precisely the reason maybe teachers should be armed, this gets more and more frequent. If a teach had one perhaps lives could have been saved. Whether a gun or a knife wielding crazy man coming at you or your class. Our students should be protected where they are learning to better themselvers to be our doctors, presidents, etc. I know they have school police so maybe the answer is upping the staff.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 14 2008, 06:03PM
rolncode2892 wrote ...
You are right Bmatheny. As long as its not concealed, its not illegal. Problem is, everyone is going to call 911 reporting a "man with a gun" I am sure it would be "suggested" by whatever responding agency not to do it.
You are right Bmatheny. As long as its not concealed, its not illegal. Problem is, everyone is going to call 911 reporting a "man with a gun" I am sure it would be "suggested" by whatever responding agency not to do it.
And please understand my comment. I'm not telling everyone to "don'yr weapons boys". I'm stating that I know in certain SAFE situations it is legal to carry exposed weapons legally in counties and cities.
You're right about it potentially being a problem and people interpreting it as a threat. I think any responsible person would not assume the worst unless it starts happening. Meaning, a man with a gun on the street is not a big deal to me. Heck, sometimes I'm a man with guns and ammo in the back of my car - going shooting. It's when that man on the street with a gun turns into a threat is where I start drawing lines in the sand with regards to his lack of responsibility in handling his weapon. At that point, if he's shooting people (or trying), then I believe citizens should be able to defend themselves.
So.. What I was stating was a point of view and fact, don't everybody start wandering around town with your guns. It might be a bad decision and could cost you your life if you start acting stupid.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 14 2008, 06:14PM
BigBearMarty wrote ...
Unfortunately, there wasn't a cop in the classroom.
One could argue that if there were other armed people around this campus, someone may have been able to stop this guy.
Unfortunately, there wasn't a cop in the classroom.
One could argue that if there were other armed people around this campus, someone may have been able to stop this guy.
you are 100% correct and the other problem is that all handguns and weapons in any house with a child should have trigger locks or weapon locks. These prevent the weapon from being used to hurt anyone and cost about $20.
Look, I don't have kids in my house and my weapons are in my house unloaded and unlocked. I have locks for every single one of my guns and should put them on this weekend. I went shooting last weekend, packed them in the garage after that and hauled them upstairs a few days ago.
Ya wanna know why these kids are doing this with their parents guns??????? It's because SCHOOLS are more of a "social experiment" now than a "house of education". They've stopped the teachers from CONTROLLING the kids and it's gotten out of hand.
We need to start using SCHOOL UNIFORMS and ACCESSORIES. We need to stop the rich kid vs. poor kid kinda school mentality and stop support this "fierce competitive" attitude in kids. Growning up and maturing is tough enough. Let them be kids and have FUN while LEARNING - not what I call a "social experiment with your kids". Make it a SCHOOL not an out of control playground
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 07:03PM
Do any of you making pro-gun claims have any scholarly or expert facts to back up what you are saying? I have provided such to refute what you are saying...Your turn....
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 14 2008, 07:05PM
That is strange.
I really don't understand the need for a weapon in space. What is it one of those 22's that come apart.
Bad enough several countries may have nukes to drop on earth, and nuclear reactors that can fall on us........ again.
Cat
I really hate to beat a dead horse.
but there will always be guns around to be used for evil. and if there wern't people would kill each other with sticks.
there are many cops in England that do carry guns about 5%. And many more have them in their trunks. or bonnets, whatever they call them.
I'm sure it will increase as terrorism increases in Europe.
I believe that teachers should not have guns in class but there should be some security available. Teachers would not be able to secure them while doing their job. possibly gun safes in some rooms with trained teachers able to respond quickly to events
the only incident (that i remember) at school in Big Bear was when a student built a bomb with school chemicals. blew 1/2 his arm off and sued the school. There was one other that may have been prevented when they arrested the phsyco's for mutilating horses. the kids in school knew these kids were dangerous of course their records were sealed if they were minors. One is in jail now as are at least one of his parents. there should have been no guns in this house. one of the others was a son of a cop.
another in lucerene where some poisened their teacher.
profiling should be done to identify trouble kids. These things are not done over night.
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 14 2008, 10:06PM
OH FOR CHRIST SAKE! I can't believe this crap. Instead of getting rid of all guns just get more and let the teachers have them? Lets all just shot each other. Great world we live in. I swear. Geez
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 14 2008, 11:32PM
is it just me or are all the angry people, the one's without guns?
probably a good thing.
Cat
I'm sorry if you think having a ready reaction force promotes violence. If your worried about another gun coming into the world. We can use ones taken from gang members.
you said that only police should be allowed to carry guns. my suggestion was that a teacher would receive training (I underlined, bold type, italisized, and printed "training" in red so it would be clear) that would allow him to act as a deputy to prevent gun violence and save lives.
taking 2 hours to setup and clear the building in these situations is to slow.
a gun is a static object incapable of causing harm untill it is used and can be used for good or bad. my good gun is meant to cancel out a bad gun.
it was only an idea,
it wont be done tomorrow.
just trying to help stop gun violence on campus . I know you feel that guns can me elimanated but it will not happen. so come up with another idea
and we will discuss it if you wish.
sorry but the world is not Mr. Rogers neighborhood. It is more like a tim burton movie
don't blame it on me I'm just a few seats ahead of you on the roller coaster ride and have a better (meaning clearer) view and don't wear rose colored glasses
here is a picture of my puppy.
whoulda thunk it
don't worry he likes cats.
lighten up were just talking, not setting policy.
,
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 14 2008, 11:49PM
Cat wrote ...
OH FOR CHRIST SAKE! I can't believe this crap. Instead of getting rid of all guns just get more and let the teachers have them? Lets all just shot each other. Great world we live in. I swear. Geez
OH FOR CHRIST SAKE! I can't believe this crap. Instead of getting rid of all guns just get more and let the teachers have them? Lets all just shot each other. Great world we live in. I swear. Geez
Cat, you know I love you as as SCM member and respect you as a friend. I really think we should respect one another's decisions and move on. This subject is pretty much dead unless someone tries to take away citizen's rights to own and bear guns. You should know from the number of people on this board that have responded that guns don't kill people, people determined to kill people with guns kill people.
I can't remember which member said it, but we promise not to be armed when we visit you or attend a SCM event (unless it's the shooting event - which is due in April 08).
This is a difficult topic becuse there are so many levels of understanding. This topic is diverse in the sense that people see different perspectives of potential solutions.
The fact that our founding fathers gave the citizens of this great country the RIGHT to keep and bear arms to prevent what they were fighting for, freedom, means we need to keep this right in tact for all citizens. This right was intended to support the union (state's defense abilities) as well as protect the citizens from "objectionable rule" means every US citizen who chooses to own a gun and be responsible is in fact honoring the intentions of our forefathers. We are choosing, and I'm not speaking for everyone on this board, to put our life on the line (if necessary and called upon to do so) to protect our great country, our family, our fellow citizens and our boarders.
Many of you may not understand the total responsibilities of gun ownership. If you think about it, this is one of the greatest responsibilities you will ever undertake because if puts your family, friends and self at risk.
Think about it. We choose to own guns for a reason and because we have that right. Beyond that, it becomes our responsiblity to properly conduct ourselves and others in regards to our choice. It also means we take on a HUGE responsibility for our choice.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 14 2008, 11:55PM
bills grandson wrote ...
a gun is a static object incapable of causing harm untill it is used and can be used for good or bad.
just trying to help stop gun violence on campus .
a gun is a static object incapable of causing harm untill it is used and can be used for good or bad.
just trying to help stop gun violence on campus .
I call them "machines" because they are mechanical in nature and require maintenance/upkeep. I completely agree. Take the clip out (unchabmered) or the bolt and it won't do anything but be a baseball bat or club.
These things are not evil - they are a reality. This is how order is maintained (at the lowest common level). Some value their abilities and respect their power and others choose not to investigate/own them.
It really is a personal choice and a right of every US Citizen.
The school problems are another story and I've said my .02.
Re: Gun ownership
, Fri Feb 15 2008, 04:14AM
BBB wrote ...
Do any of you making pro-gun claims have any scholarly or expert facts to back up what you are saying? I have provided such to refute what you are saying...Your turn....
Do any of you making pro-gun claims have any scholarly or expert facts to back up what you are saying? I have provided such to refute what you are saying...Your turn....
In the words of someone else, "still waiting....."
By the way, can I have my nuclear and A bombs? If we read the second amendment as many of you and others do we are permitted as citizens to bear "arms." Aren't bombs considered arms? After all, during the cold war with the Soviet Union they always referred to the arms race. I want my supply of bombs so I can eliminate those pesky terrorists during the night who come knocking at my door.
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:20AM
Bills grandson
I think you need to do the math on this
BBB + GUN x PHR = DRIVE BY SEX TUB SHOOTING
I never bought a gun to defend my home from intruders living in Big Bear they were bought for shooting and hunting. A lot of us until a few years did not even lock the doors on our homes. Now we lock the doors The Times They Are A-Changin. If my family lived down the mountain I would have a cannon and it would not be for hunting. We seem to be at a point that if an intruder kills someone they get their hands slapped because there kindergarten teacher did not give him regular milk but instead gave them 2% milk with his gram crackers. WE NEED TO MAKE A POINT. So when a-hole comes in with a gun he knows he will be microwaved in the chair.
Re: Gun ownership
, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:20AM
Well if we are going to respect one anothers decisions then respect my opinion also.
I don't care if ya all have guns. I think the world would be a better place without them.
Try to get rid of all the guns. HAR
Good thing the angry people don't have any guns? Who said that anyway I can't remember and I'm not going to go back and read all this stuff.
Who says I'm angry? I don't like guns. They kill people and other things. So why have them.
I don't know how anyone could kill anything.
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:34AM
How about the court system and letting the scum go after a couple of years from taking a life. The fact when some of us grew up we knew if we killed someone that we would get the death sentence and they carried it out. In the last couple decades they seem to be out of jail and home for Christmas. I feel they are harder on people for speeding.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Feb 15 2008, 08:11AM
So lets move on, shall we.
Time to ban alcohol, I mean after all you drink get a little tippsi and get in an accdent, someone that has not been drinking gets killed and you walk away.
Or your talking on your cell phone or doing makeup while driving, lets just go back to the horse and buggy. Much simpler times
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Fri Feb 15 2008, 08:29AM
I love California if you kill someone with a knife make sure the glove looks like it doesn’t fit. If you go to dinner and forget your gun at the dinner table, go back and get it. A few do’s and don’ts in California if you have someone brake in to your home. Do not use an ethnic slur at them that will allow them to kill you in your home, but in there defense you were not being sensitive and compassionate of their inter sole and feelings. Perhaps if or court system did something to the scum we could go beck to hunting and shooting instead of defending. Our media gives them days of fame and instead of calling them a crazy freak wacko trash they are referred to as a just a misunderstood loner.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Feb 15 2008, 08:46AM
I have been thinking along similar lines - if someone plans to commit a crime and cannot obtain a gun, they WILL find other means or methods.
Some whack-o just slaughtered his shrink with a couple of knives. She is just as dead as if he had used a gun. The end result is exactly the same.
Yes, guns are often times used to kill but they are not the CAUSE, they are just tools used my the killer.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Feb 15 2008, 08:57AM
this is an on going discussion about which right is more important, it was started by a collage student. There is some good thinking going on.
Please read with an open mind.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Feb 15 2008, 08:59AM
I'll leave the post here but I should have put it in Billsgrandsons post.
Re: Gun ownership
, Fri Feb 15 2008, 09:44AM
Luna wrote ...
Some whack-o just slaughtered his shrink with a couple of knives. She is just as dead as if he had used a gun. The end result is exactly the same.
Some whack-o just slaughtered his shrink with a couple of knives. She is just as dead as if he had used a gun. The end result is exactly the same.
HUH??? If you look in one of the expert's info I provided you'll see that your chances of survival in a crime with a knife versus a gun are better with a knife. It's very easy and simple to understand. If someone pulls a knife you can run away. If they pull a gun and run they can shoot you. In other words the person with the knife has to be right upon you with a knife to be effective. It's not the same. If I was attacked by someone with a knife I would try to defend myself any way I can. If someone has a gun I am cooperating as much as possible.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Feb 15 2008, 10:03AM
BBB wrote ...
HUH??? If you look in one of the expert's info I provided you'll see that your chances of survival in a crime with a knife versus a gun are better with a knife. It's very easy and simple to understand. If someone pulls a knife you can run away. If they pull a gun and run they can shoot you. In other words the person with the knife has to be right upon you with a knife to be effective. It's not the same. If I was attacked by someone with a knife I would try to defend myself any way I can. If someone has a gun I am cooperating as much as possible.
Luna wrote ...
Some whack-o just slaughtered his shrink with a couple of knives. She is just as dead as if he had used a gun. The end result is exactly the same.
Some whack-o just slaughtered his shrink with a couple of knives. She is just as dead as if he had used a gun. The end result is exactly the same.
HUH??? If you look in one of the expert's info I provided you'll see that your chances of survival in a crime with a knife versus a gun are better with a knife. It's very easy and simple to understand. If someone pulls a knife you can run away. If they pull a gun and run they can shoot you. In other words the person with the knife has to be right upon you with a knife to be effective. It's not the same. If I was attacked by someone with a knife I would try to defend myself any way I can. If someone has a gun I am cooperating as much as possible.
Are you disputing the fact that she is dead and will always be dead? Are you saying that she is less dead than if she was killed with bullets? Apparently "running away" didn't work out for her and the opinions of your "scholarly experts" didn't help her situation one bit.
Lookie here: [Click Here]
BTW, what were the weapons of choice of the 9/11 hijackers, enabling them to take control of several aircraft?
BBB wrote ...
...If someone pulls a knife you can run away. ...If they pull a gun and run they can shoot you...
...If someone pulls a knife you can run away. ...If they pull a gun and run they can shoot you...
Yes, but they HAVE to be able to hit you as a moving target. It's not as easy as they make it look on TV.
I challenge you to make an accurate shot on a moving target with the firearm of your choice.
I further challenge you to stand near someone with an object simulating a knife and attempt to escape before they can make contact with you.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Feb 15 2008, 04:49PM
I know this thread needs to slow down but this is just in yesterday from Washington:
Second Amendment's Day in Court
Oliver North | February 14, 2008
[Click Here]
When the Washington, D.C. City Council enacted the toughest gun-control law in the nation in 1976, the city fathers – according to what they said at the time – believed they were making our nation's capital a safer place. The measure failed miserably. Since passage, the murder rate in the District has skyrocketed by more than 200 percent. Now, the U.S. Supreme Court has a chance to both make our capital safer – and ensure that the Second Amendment to our Constitution is enshrined as an individual right for every law-abiding American.
No matter how well intentioned, the D.C. firearms statute has been unfathomable from the start. On its face, the law bans handguns and requires rifles and shotguns to be registered, stored unloaded and either locked or disassembled. While it allows business owners to use a firearm to protect their cash registers at their stores, they cannot use that same firearm to protect themselves and their families in their homes. Individuals who protect federal officials and property in the District with firearms are not permitted to provide similar protection for themselves and their families in their own domiciles.
In fact, the case that the Supreme Court will hear, District of Columbia v. Heller, was brought by Mr. Dick Heller, a security guard. In carrying out his duties, Mr. Heller carries a handgun on Federal property. However, when he sought to register the same weapon to safeguard his home, he was denied. Mr. Heller says the D.C. law has it backwards. "I can protect [federal workers], but at the end of the day they say, 'turn in your gun, you can't protect your home.'" Mr. Heller maintains that disassembled rifles and shotguns are no substitute for handguns, "any more than the government could prohibit books because it permits newspapers and considers them an 'adequate substitute.'"
Last March, the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals agreed, 2-1, that the District's prohibition was not only unreasonable, it was clearly unconstitutional. Attorneys for the District of Columbia promptly appealed the decision. That is why on March 18, for the first time since 1939, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments on whether such a gun ban for law-abiding citizens is constitutional. Their verdict, expected later this year, will have profound implications for all Americans.
The case has generated a flurry of unprecedented action in both the Executive and Legislative branches of government. On January 11, the Department of Justice (DOJ), filed an egregiously weak amicus – friend of the court – brief in the case. The argument, submitted by U.S. Solicitor General Paul Clement, essentially urges the Supremes to waffle on the issue and send the case back to the lower courts.
The DOJ softball didn't sit well with U.S. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX). On February 8, she filed an amicus brief on behalf of Mr. Heller and the exercise of his individual rights under the Second Amendment: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
In her lucid and detailed exposition, Senator Hutchison accurately points out that the Framers never intended that the word "militia," meant that the right to keep and bear arms was some kind of "collective" right that applied only to a particular group. If that had been their purpose, they would have been satisfied with Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution that gives Congress the power "to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions."
To ensure that that firearms possession was recognized by posterity as an "individual right," the Framers included it as part of the Bill of Rights – an enumeration of every citizen's personal entitlements: free speech, freedom of religion and a fair trial. The precise location of those famous words - "the right to keep and bear arms" – provides strong evidence for the Founders' vision.
To foreclose any doubt where Congress comes down on the issue, Senator Hutchison has introduced a bill to repeal the District of Columbia's ban on handguns; repeal registration requirements; and restore the ability of law-abiding citizens to keep a loaded, operable firearm in their homes. Doing less denies the meaning of the words "shall not be abridged."
Her argument was so persuasive that 54 additional Senators and 250 Members of the House of Representatives – including 68 Democrats – signed on. Vice President Dick Cheney – apparently at odds with the administration's Department of Justice did so as well. Hopefully the Supreme Court will agree with these enlightened members of Congress – and Abraham Lincoln who said, "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Fri Feb 15 2008, 05:19PM
BBB wrote ...
HUH??? If you look in one of the expert's info I provided you'll see that your chances of survival in a crime with a knife versus a gun are better with a knife. It's very easy and simple to understand. If someone pulls a knife you can run away. If they pull a gun and run they can shoot you. In other words the person with the knife has to be right upon you with a knife to be effective. It's not the same. If I was attacked by someone with a knife I would try to defend myself any way I can. If someone has a gun I am cooperating as much as possible.
Luna wrote ...
Some whack-o just slaughtered his shrink with a couple of knives. She is just as dead as if he had used a gun. The end result is exactly the same.
Some whack-o just slaughtered his shrink with a couple of knives. She is just as dead as if he had used a gun. The end result is exactly the same.
HUH??? If you look in one of the expert's info I provided you'll see that your chances of survival in a crime with a knife versus a gun are better with a knife. It's very easy and simple to understand. If someone pulls a knife you can run away. If they pull a gun and run they can shoot you. In other words the person with the knife has to be right upon you with a knife to be effective. It's not the same. If I was attacked by someone with a knife I would try to defend myself any way I can. If someone has a gun I am cooperating as much as possible.
I'm pretty sure getting hit by a speeding car, or a sledge hammer to the head, or a chainsaw, etc. Are all less less survivable than being shot. Guns are tools, not weapons. I believe most gun control laws are a violation of the 2nd amendment.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Feb 15 2008, 05:34PM
it could be that because he is on federal job he is working under their authority, while at home he is a civilian.
military will let anyone carry a gun.
but it is a good argument. I don't see how it could be against the law anywhere as long as you are in your home.
transporting can get stickey.
I was wondering if you are moving to another state are you violating a law crossing the line?
I am very happy that everyone has shown maturity in talking about a subject that everyone is so sensative about.
Still hard for me to understand how someone could be against it. But obviously they find it hard to believe anyone could be for it.
I doubt if anyone has changed their mind but maybe we all can see the other side a little clearer.
hopefuly the anti gun people know that not everyone with guns runs around drunk shooting them in the air.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Feb 15 2008, 05:50PM
Cat wrote ...
Well if we are going to respect one anothers decisions then respect my opinion also.
I don't care if ya all have guns. I think the world would be a better place without them.
Try to get rid of all the guns. HAR
Good thing the angry people don't have any guns? Who said that anyway I can't remember and I'm not going to go back and read all this stuff.
Who says I'm angry? I don't like guns. They kill people and other things. So why have them.
I don't know how anyone could kill anything.
"OH FOR CHRIST SAKE! I can't believe this crap. Instead of getting rid of all guns just get more and let the teachers have them? Lets all just shot each other. Great world we live in. I swear. Geez"
Well if we are going to respect one anothers decisions then respect my opinion also.
I don't care if ya all have guns. I think the world would be a better place without them.
Try to get rid of all the guns. HAR
Good thing the angry people don't have any guns? Who said that anyway I can't remember and I'm not going to go back and read all this stuff.
Who says I'm angry? I don't like guns. They kill people and other things. So why have them.
I don't know how anyone could kill anything.
"OH FOR CHRIST SAKE! I can't believe this crap. Instead of getting rid of all guns just get more and let the teachers have them? Lets all just shot each other. Great world we live in. I swear. Geez"
YOu said you were angry! B)
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Feb 15 2008, 06:53PM
Luna wrote ...
Yes, guns are often times used to kill but they are not the CAUSE, they are just tools used my the killer.
Yes, guns are often times used to kill but they are not the CAUSE, they are just tools used my the killer.
Excellent point. But I also understand the other side fo the coin in that guns are available and because of that "often times used to kill".
The final conclusion is that guns have become a part of every society on the planet and that if we try to take them away, they'll find other ways to kill or defend one another. We're monkeys and we'll fight to the death if you piss us off - all of us.
If not guns, what else? Swords? Rocks? Clubs? Lasers? Injectors?
Look, there are lots of ways to kill a person (if one wanted). It is when the mind switches into that "I'm gonna kill you" mode that is perplexing. Sometimes, I feel it is justified. Other times not.
The end result is we've been fighting forever because we don't like each other (sometimes). Given that fact, why would anyone want to not be prepared with at least the minimum defensive capabilities.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:01PM
Bkap, Slow down a bit?? Hell, after reading your post I almost passed out?
They take away guns in DC and the murder rate surged 200+%.
What more needs to be said?? This is a no-brainer. Guns and any type of defensive weapon are a deterant - not a problem.
Geez - those statistics are amazing. Anything to say BBB or Moose?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:05PM
bills grandson wrote ...
hopefuly the anti gun people know that not everyone with guns runs around drunk shooting them in the air.
hopefuly the anti gun people know that not everyone with guns runs around drunk shooting them in the air.
Don't tell them what we do at night?? SHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dang!!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Feb 15 2008, 07:48PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
The end result is we've been fighting forever because we don't like each other (sometimes). Given that fact, why would anyone want to not be prepared with at least the minimum defensive capabilities.
The end result is we've been fighting forever because we don't like each other (sometimes). Given that fact, why would anyone want to not be prepared with at least the minimum defensive capabilities.
Does anyone know the one animal that can eat with/at the same place as their mortal enemy?
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that would be us, humans.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Feb 15 2008, 09:54PM
from the mouths of babes
got this in an email and fell off my chair.
in a twisted way it kind of sums it up for both sides
and yes I know it isn't real.
Hillary Clinton, the (former) lead Presidential Democratic Party candidate is for banning all guns in America. She is considered by those who have dealt with her as a little more than just a little self-righteous.
At a recent rural elementary school meeting in north Florida she asked the kids audience for total quiet. Then, in the silence, she started to slowly clap her hands, once every few seconds. Holding the audience in total silence, she said into the microphone, 'Every time I clap my hands, a child in America dies from gun violence.'
A young voice with a proud southern accent (probably Johnny) from the front of the crowd pierced the quiet! 'Well, stop clappin, ya stupid [censored]!
Re: Gun ownership
fast freddy, Fri Feb 15 2008, 09:54PM
I vote Yes
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Fri Feb 15 2008, 11:16PM
I would offer this as the latest in the line of "maybe not all Americans should have guns" strategy.
I think we abdicated our "right" to own guns the very minute stuff like this started happening. And it happened FIVE times in the past week alone. At schools. Where kids are supposed to be safe? This is nuts.
I know you all are quite sane, but you have to admit that every red-blooded American who owns one is not.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Feb 15 2008, 11:35PM
inky
I repeat nobody has said all americans should have guns.
There are laws on the books to keep them out of the hands of felons and mentaly ill.
Many have given up there right to have guns and still have them.
enforce the laws now, and stock up the death chamber, and quit letting crimmanals out of jail.
all the more reason for others to have them.
and though it may hurt my argument. Don't accuse me of being "sane" I have always been a half bubble off and am proud of it. keeps things interesting. (you have to be 3/4 off before they can take your guns)
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:13AM
It's the media's fault:
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:17AM
Dennis, the mentally ill, as pointed out many times, often fall through the cracks. How do they find out if someone getting a gun has a mental illness or not? Just asking someone is just assenine! It's like asking an alcoholic if he or she is an alcoholic. DUH! Of course they are going to say no. B)
There are some people here in BB with anger issues that scare me thinking they own guns. Others may be a time bomb that appear sane (you know, the good neighbor nextdoor you hear about on the news) that for no reason (not taking meds) go postal....
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:36AM
BBB wrote ...
It's like asking an alcoholic if he or she is an alcoholic. DUH! Of course they are going to say no. B)
It's like asking an alcoholic if he or she is an alcoholic. DUH! Of course they are going to say no. B)
That's a ridiculous, uninformed statement. I know plenty of alcoholics that will tell you of their disease without a bit hesitation and will refuse alcoholic beverages all day long.
BBB wrote ...
There are some people here in BB with anger issues that scare me thinking they own guns...
There are some people here in BB with anger issues that scare me thinking they own guns...
Based upon the misinformed / inaccurate statement in the first quote above, I really have my doubts about this one. too
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:55AM
Inky wrote ...
I would offer this as the latest in the line of "maybe not all Americans should have guns" strategy.
I think we abdicated our "right" to own guns the very minute stuff like this started happening. And it happened FIVE times in the past week alone. At schools. Where kids are supposed to be safe? This is nuts.
I know you all are quite sane, but you have to admit that every red-blooded American who owns one is not.
[Click Here]
I would offer this as the latest in the line of "maybe not all Americans should have guns" strategy.
I think we abdicated our "right" to own guns the very minute stuff like this started happening. And it happened FIVE times in the past week alone. At schools. Where kids are supposed to be safe? This is nuts.
I know you all are quite sane, but you have to admit that every red-blooded American who owns one is not.
[Click Here]
Inky, while I don't completely disagree with you entirely. You're right - it is nuts that these things seem to happen and my assumption is it is a "sociological" issue within our community that is driving people to this point. The only reason any somewhat sane person crosses this line is they've been pushed beyond their abilities to cope. Please read this information below (taken from your link)
---------------------------- ---------------------------
People who knew Kazmierczak said he didn't fit the profile of a mass murderer. They said he was an outstanding student, engaging, polite and industrious, with what looked like a bright future in the criminal justice field.
Grady said, without giving details, that Kazmierczak had become erratic in the past two weeks after he had stopped taking his medication. But that seemed to come as news to many of those who knew him, and the attack itself was positively baffling.
“We had no indications at all this would be the type of person that would engage in such activity,” Grady said. He described the gunman as a good student during his time at NIU, and by all accounts a “fairly normal” person.
Exactly what set Kazmierczak off – and why he picked his former university and that particular lecture hall – remained a mystery. Police said they found no suicide note.
Late Friday, a former employee at a Chicago psychiatric treatment center told The Associated Press that Kazmierczak's parents placed him there after high school. She said he used to cut himself, and had resisted taking his medications.
---------------------------------- -----------------------------------
This is obviously a troubled kid that should not have had any access to guns. He was also discharged from the Army because of mental issues.
Now, this leads to a problem that we should all be able to realise is a failure of the US Govt. The "background check" is obviously flawed in the sense that so many WACKOS get access to guns.
A person like this should have never passed a "gun background check" and the reason he did is because the federal and state agencies have no clue what they are doing. Same thing with that Virginia Tech shooter.
The guy that went in and shot all those city officials in MN was different. That was an upstanding citizen with a business, family and many other positive aspects of his participation in society. As more news keeps being released we've learned that he was HUNTED by the city officials, cited hundreds of times for parking tickets and other minor violations. He had expressed his problems to the city offices many times, but ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY!!. The city officials, being the absolute power, dismissed him and continue to put ILLEGAL and UNETHICAL presure on him, his family and his business. He SNAPPED because he had no other means of defending himself and he knew what was happening to him was WRONG.
Was he justified in his actions - I say NO. He could have moved or found another way to address these issues. Was his owning a gun the problem - no. Were the city officials directly involved in creating the problem - YOU BET!!
This is a situation where the CITY OFFICIALS operated outside the boundaries of ethics and fairness towards a citizen of their city. They knew they were pushing him in the wrong direction, but continued to push anyway because of a sense of ABSOLUTE POWER. We should all learn from this that ABSOLUTE POWER is a big threat to our society and that in any extreme case of ABSOLUTE POWER being forced on FREE CITIZENS will likely result in a FIGHT.
Anyone and everyone has a "survival instinct" - it's part of being human. No matter if we took every weapon off the planet, humans will still find ways to kill one another.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:57AM
you are right.
but as sad as it is to say the time bomb next door is the reason "you" need protection. A cop is a very long 10-15 minutes away. Everyone has anger issues, I have a few but have never thought about using a gun to address them.
The scum at columbine were known about and had even posted online what they were about and what they would do.
Parents have to get rid of the "not my baby" syndrome. I know you have a friend who fell victum to this big time.
There always seem to be flags about these people, and while all don't go postal, family and friends, & even schools should be concerned. A lot of times I would imagine communication may have averted these things. Frustration and hoplesness are hard to deal with schools loading kids with drugs because they cannot get them interested to learn and would rather have them stoned in class earning them their per diem then invest the time to reach them, or expell them if needbe is the wrong course.
If your kid is wearing trench coats it may be time to search his room and his computer.
dressing in black, while a normal phase can become a flag if carried to extreame.
I get a kick out of goth, but not healthy, cutters are easy to spot.
it's funny after these things happen it always turns out they had been on drugs for depression It has been well documented that these things don't help but just store the anger.
believe me I have more qustions then answers but I know taking my last line of defense is not one of them.
and refering to gun owners as "toting", and "packing" are not the proper term to what most gun owners do.
Take a look around at your own home and you will see how vulnerable you are. factor in a ten or more minute police reaction time. Is your alarm protecting you? Can you get to your safe room, when your door is broken down in the middle of the night?
If you are lucky you have 5 seconds to react. compling does not guarentee your protection. I know how my 5 seconds will be spent. do you?
and who has better odds?
I understand it is better to have faith and hope that if you trust you will be safe.
Just like I believe pure communisum would be a uptopia. but it dosen't work and neither does gun control.
I repeat.
it is better to have one and not need it. then to need one and not have it.
did you not read the post from the cop?
he has seen it daily and though everyone carrying guns would make his job harder . Having just the bad people with guns is much worse.
If he reads this. Carry your off duty piece. I may know you and rely on you having it some day.
I thought it was required
BBB
I doubt if I can convince you, and I know you wont convince me. I understand your deep concern, I have them too and we choose different ways to handle them When I was a child I would hide under the blankets but is that safety?
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Sat Feb 16 2008, 11:31AM
Society is becoming more violent and evil as time progresses due to a lack of faith in Jesus Christ (but that is a whole other topic)
My point is you cannot always depend on Law Enforcement to protect you the instant you need protecting. Although we are now trained to eliminate an "active shooter" instead of waiting for SWAT etc. reponse times, even at best case scenario, can take a few minutes. A few minutes can cost countless lives.
Thus the need in todays society for us to be able to protect ourselves, and our fellow brother and sisters, even if they don't feel we should be armed.
And God help us all the day some lawmaker, senator, President (hint-hint) decides to take the right to protect oursleves away. That will be the start of anachry as criminals will exploit our vulnerability to the fullest extent.
Re: Gun ownership
Marty, Sat Feb 16 2008, 12:07PM
rolncode2892 wrote ...
Society is becoming more violent and evil as time progresses due to a lack of faith in Jesus Christ (but that is a whole other topic)
Society is becoming more violent and evil as time progresses due to a lack of faith in Jesus Christ (but that is a whole other topic)
Amen brother!
Re: Gun ownership
Around The Lake, Sat Feb 16 2008, 07:30PM
I need to ask this what kind of gun should we all have as I am not shure our rite to have own a gun is for us to own every kind of gun.
What do you think? (please be kind as I am only asking do not tear me apart for just asking)
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Sat Feb 16 2008, 07:36PM
Around The Lake wrote ...
I need to ask this what kind of gun should we all have as I am not shure our rite to have own a gun is for us to own every kind of gun.
What do you think? (please be kind as I am only asking do not tear me apart for just asking)
I need to ask this what kind of gun should we all have as I am not shure our rite to have own a gun is for us to own every kind of gun.
What do you think? (please be kind as I am only asking do not tear me apart for just asking)
The Second Amendment was written so that we could defend our rights against others and oppressive government. I think automatic weapons to .50 cals should be legal, or else it gives the government too much power over the people. The only weapons that should be illegal are explosives.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Feb 16 2008, 07:50PM
ATL, you should own a gun that you feel comfortable with and that you are able to use with ease. What I mean is there is no one gun for everybody, my wife does not like semi-autos as it is hard for her to operate the slide, but her and the daughter can do a revolver no problem. I do not recommend a shotgun or rifle for home defense as the length gets in the way, it is a good one for that but you need to practice a LOT with it to feel comfortable where as a handgun you still need to practice but you don’t have to keep dropping the barrel down.
As far as caliber I don’t recommend anything smaller then a .38+, and most people recommend a .45. At home my bedside gun is a .40 with fragmenting bullets (this way if I miss it will break apart in the wall with out going thru).
Yes, the area I live in has made it so all of us know how to use a gun and are prepared to do so if needed. This is why I am selling, anyone want to buy?
I say go to a friendly gun shop and handle a lot of guns, ask questions, a lot of them. There are no dumb ones.
If you want help ask me or any of those that are gun friendly and I’m sure we will help you.
This is for personal use, for defence of country .50 and full auto!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Feb 16 2008, 07:57PM
ATL
it would depend what you wanted it for.
i suggest you go to the next shooting event and talk to the members and see what you like
There is nothing to stop you from having several.
for plinking (shooting cans, etc.) a .22 would be a good place to start and cheap to feed.
huntinging at least .30 caliber
duck or bird hunting 12 gauge shotgun
home protection there are two basic choices each with merits and drawbacks
some prefer a automatic or revolver pistol.
some like a shot gun.
the shot gun is good necause of stopping power, and less chance of penerating walls
pistols are nice for ease of use and number of rounds and fast reloading. one way or another reloading will probably not be necessary.
I'm sure they will help you at the event and let you shoot several weapons.
You will need to sit down and decide what you want and if you are willing to accept the responsability..
Consideration is family member acceptance. Children in the home are a serious consideration you will need a lock, and I would suggest a gunsafe.
It is not a real easy choice.
overall I like a .380 for size, accuracy and decent stopping power, similar to a .38 smaller then a .45 and light enough for a woman to shoot.
anything smaller would just make a bad guy mad.
I would love to shoot the .50 caliber sniper rifle.
m-60's are fun to play with but ammo is very expensive, and the neighbors may frown upon having one next door plus a hassel to register.
I checked out a grease gun once but didn't fire it.
m-79 is a good all around weapon with the choice in many different rounds.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Feb 16 2008, 07:57PM
ARMALITE AR-30 .338 LAPUA MAG / NIGHTFORCE NXS 8-32x56 W/MLR RETICLE (ILLUMINATED) & NIGHTFORCE ULTRALIGHT RINGS W/TITANIUM CLAW / HARRIS BIPOD "1500 yds. A friend just got this, yes he lives in Ca.
The bullet on the right is what it spits out.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Feb 16 2008, 08:08PM
wife said I need to show this one. It is not ours but a friends wife it is an AR in .223cal.
YES IT IS A REAL RIFLE.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Sat Feb 16 2008, 09:52PM
Nice AR's ....didn't know tactical pink was in, but it works!!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sat Feb 16 2008, 11:07PM
Around The Lake wrote ...
I need to ask this what kind of gun should we all have as I am not shure our rite to have own a gun is for us to own every kind of gun.
What do you think? (please be kind as I am only asking do not tear me apart for just asking)
I need to ask this what kind of gun should we all have as I am not shure our rite to have own a gun is for us to own every kind of gun.
What do you think? (please be kind as I am only asking do not tear me apart for just asking)
come with us next time we go shooting. My advise may be different than some others - but I respect all of them because I'm still learning as I go too.
I have two 9mm pistols. One is a Baretta 92F that holds 14 rounds. I have three clips for that weapon and can essentially shoot 42 rounds at an attacker if needed. I feel this is enough stopping power for my home.
If the bad guys are really bad, then I break out the bigger weapons and start shooting. Those that know me know I'm not a WACKO that runs around shooting guns into the air.
My biggest gun is a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R Russian WWII rifle. It sounds like a cannon and could shoot thru a couple cinder-blocks and 200 yards. Ask Jibber or Benny about it. It is the only weapon I have that can shoot thru a 5 gallon bucket full of water. And when I say THRU - I mean THROUGH and THROUGH with the bucket nearly USELESS afterward.
Why did I buy this weapon, because Big 5 had it on sale for $69 and because the ammo only costs $85 for 880 rounds. This gun is SUBSONIC - meaning whatever I shot it at will not hear me fire the gun before the bullet hits the target (assuming I hit the target). It is not a good home defense weapon, but is very fun to shoot.
My advice for home defense would be a 9MM semi-auto with at least 12 round capacity. Get good at shooting it and get confortable with it. Then buy the hollow-points or frag rounds for home defense. You don't want to be defending your home and find out one of your shots went thru your walls and into the neighbors house and hurt/killed anyone by mistake. Be responsible and keep it secured from children and outsiders.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sat Feb 16 2008, 11:23PM
One other thing I would like to add to this discussion is TRAINING. Benny recently went thru a certified hangun course before purchasing his new handgun. I have been thru a hunter safety course when I was 14 or so. My family was not really into guns, but I firmly believe in gun ownership rights.
If you decide to purchase or own a gun and have never used/cleaned it, or do not have it properly stored - you are not being responsible with your weapons.
It is very important that anyone who chooses to own a weapon understand how it works, how to maintain it and clean it, how to operate it in a safe mode and how to accurately USE the weapon.
When Benny first got his new gun, we went out into the forest and practised. It took us a few shots before we were able to start hitting things (bottles and cans). This is a .357 handgun and it's not easy to hit a 2.5" wide bottle at 85 yards shooting single handed or double handed. As Luna stated, I challenge anyone to go out and hit 3 out of 5 rounds after three tries.
What I'm trying to state here is that IF YOU OWN GUNS, KNOW HOW TO USE THEM AND HOW THEY OPERATE so you can be RESPONSIBLE with your weapons - that's it.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Feb 17 2008, 10:15AM
Well we’ve argued back and forth about this and since no one yet showed any article about what happens when privet citizens are allowed to carry I thought I’d post this for you to see. There are more out there from Florida to Washington state and all over the US where we are allowed to carry.
[Click Here]
Dave Workman: Right to carry arms helps keep peace
01:00 AM EST on Wednesday, February 13, 2008
DAVE WORKMAN
WASHINGTON
WHEN the Detroit Free Press recently revealed that six years under a liberalized concealed-carry law in Michigan have not resulted in higher rates of violent crime, gun battles at traffic stops, more police slayings and other gloom-and-doom scenarios, the newspaper put the lie to all the rhetoric against passage of the statute in Michigan, and every other state where so-called “right-to-carry” (RTC) laws have been adopted.
Reporter Dawson Bell noted that in the years since Michigan lawmakers passed RTC, “The incidence of violent crime . . . has been, on average, below the rate of the previous six years. The overall incidence of death from firearms, including suicide and accidents, has also declined.”
The newspaper even quoted Woodhaven Police Chief Michael Martin with the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police acknowledging that his group’s expectations of increased violence were unfulfilled.
Translation: Everything foes of self-defense and firearms rights said in their efforts to prevent Michigan from joining more than 40 other progressive states that have adopted sensible RTC laws was patently false. Their hysteria about “Wild West shootouts” and increased death among youths stands refuted by six years of experience, the same kind of experience reported in other states with similar statutes.
Compare this record with what has been occurring in Britain over the past decade, where a sweeping gun ban has made it difficult to own even a shotgun for sporting purposes, handguns are outlawed and fighting back can get you thrown in prison. According to the Jan. 10 edition of the Guardian, gun crime in the United Kingdom has jumped 400 percent in that decade. The reaction of anti-gun British government officials was nutty enough for American gun-control fanatics to love: The Brits want to ban deactivated firearms; you know, guns that have been rendered inoperable, apparently because such guns were used in a total of eight incidents in 2005-06.
The British are appalled at what they call America’s fascination with firearms — apparently they still haven’t gotten over what happened on April 19, 1775, when they tried to impose gun control on those annoying liberty-minded colonists in Concord and Lexington — and they have a lot of sob sisters still here who cannot bring themselves to admit that legally armed citizens are a danger to nobody — except perhaps Redcoats and criminals.
In my new book with Second Amendment Foundation founder Alan Gottlieb, America Fights Back: Armed Self-Defense in a Violent Age, case after case involving average citizens who choose self-reliance over submission and victimization confirm what Michigan has learned: Where citizens fight back, and have the means to defend themselves, crime goes down and neighborhoods are that much safer.
Today, an estimated 155,000 Michiganders have joined millions of their fellow Americans who are legally armed under RTC laws in 40 states. These people are hardly criminals. Indeed, they go through rigorous background checks and in many states, they must complete gun-safety and firearms-law classes to carry guns. Yet these are the people whom gun-control extremists predict will cause bloody mayhem, and whom they say should not be trusted with guns.
If there is a lesson to be learned from the Michigan experience it would be that legally armed Americans are a pretty responsible lot, and their presence actually makes their communities safer.
It is time to challenge the anti-self-defense crowd about its continued opposition to RTC laws, expanded self-defense statutes and private gun ownership in general. Why do these people fight adoption of such laws when they know these laws work? Why do they continually seek more widespread restrictions on private gun ownership?
Just whose side are they on?
Dave Workman is senior editor of Gun Week (www.gunweek.com) and co-author, with Alan Gottlieb, of America Fights Back: Armed Self-Defense in a Violent Age, published by Merril Press.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Feb 17 2008, 12:13PM
"According to the Jan. 10 edition of the Guardian, gun crime in the United Kingdom has jumped 400 percent in that decade. The reaction of anti-gun British government officials was nutty enough for American gun-control fanatics to love: The Brits want to ban deactivated firearms; you know, guns that have been rendered inoperable, apparently because such guns were used in a total of eight incidents in 2005-06."
Gun crime jumps 400% in a decade when GUN ARE BANNED!!!!
Now, because of a total of 8 incidents, they want to ban "deactive firearms".
Everyone who hates guns - read and learn. Leveling the playing field with the criminals is our BEST and ONLY defense.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Feb 17 2008, 01:15PM
barbi's first semi
cute!
what is with the web behind the pistol grip?
I think ours were longer and grip was better and I like our foregrip better
I bet they changed the rifle because they are used at longer ranges now.
Iwould prefer the m-14 in Iraq
This is a clerk holding a couple of things that were captured in Cambodia (oop's we wern't supposed to be there)
the 16 had a silencer, and another had an m-79 attached. I imagine they were captured from special forces. The picture was taken at An Khe.
they also looked good hanging from the mirror, couldn't find fuzzy dice. that one is taken at LZ Betty, Phan Thiet.
just some advice.
remember this is the internet, and not everyone is your friend better to not advertize to much
the other has a bullet hole in front of the trigger ouch!
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Mon Feb 18 2008, 09:12AM
bkap wrote ...
ARMALITE AR-30 .338 LAPUA MAG / NIGHTFORCE NXS 8-32x56 W/MLR RETICLE (ILLUMINATED) & NIGHTFORCE ULTRALIGHT RINGS W/TITANIUM CLAW / HARRIS BIPOD "1500 yds. A friend just got this, yes he lives in Ca.
The bullet on the right is what it spits out.
ARMALITE AR-30 .338 LAPUA MAG / NIGHTFORCE NXS 8-32x56 W/MLR RETICLE (ILLUMINATED) & NIGHTFORCE ULTRALIGHT RINGS W/TITANIUM CLAW / HARRIS BIPOD "1500 yds. A friend just got this, yes he lives in Ca.
The bullet on the right is what it spits out.
I want the .50 cal version of that.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Feb 18 2008, 11:54AM
bkap wrote ...
ATL, you should own a gun that you feel comfortable with and that you are able to use with ease. What I mean is there is no one gun for everybody, my wife does not like semi-autos as it is hard for her to operate the slide, but her and the daughter can do a revolver no problem. I do not recommend a shotgun or rifle for home defense as the length gets in the way, it is a good one for that but you need to practice a LOT with it to feel comfortable where as a handgun you still need to practice but you don’t have to keep dropping the barrel down.
As far as caliber I don’t recommend anything smaller then a .38+, and most people recommend a .45. At home my bedside gun is a .40 with fragmenting bullets (this way if I miss it will break apart in the wall with out going thru).
Yes, the area I live in has made it so all of us know how to use a gun and are prepared to do so if needed. This is why I am selling, anyone want to buy?
I say go to a friendly gun shop and handle a lot of guns, ask questions, a lot of them. There are no dumb ones.
If you want help ask me or any of those that are gun friendly and I’m sure we will help you.
This is for personal use, for defence of country .50 and full auto!
ATL, you should own a gun that you feel comfortable with and that you are able to use with ease. What I mean is there is no one gun for everybody, my wife does not like semi-autos as it is hard for her to operate the slide, but her and the daughter can do a revolver no problem. I do not recommend a shotgun or rifle for home defense as the length gets in the way, it is a good one for that but you need to practice a LOT with it to feel comfortable where as a handgun you still need to practice but you don’t have to keep dropping the barrel down.
As far as caliber I don’t recommend anything smaller then a .38+, and most people recommend a .45. At home my bedside gun is a .40 with fragmenting bullets (this way if I miss it will break apart in the wall with out going thru).
Yes, the area I live in has made it so all of us know how to use a gun and are prepared to do so if needed. This is why I am selling, anyone want to buy?
I say go to a friendly gun shop and handle a lot of guns, ask questions, a lot of them. There are no dumb ones.
If you want help ask me or any of those that are gun friendly and I’m sure we will help you.
This is for personal use, for defence of country .50 and full auto!
A .45 you crazy? Talk about tearing a hole through somebody. You looking to disable an intruder or knock them into the next county? Hahha. A 22 would suit Todd just fine. Effectively disabling a person till authorities arrive. A 22 you can shoot at someone and it just kinda rattles around in their brain. Todd, next time we all go out shooting I'll letcha know so you can come out & try the differences...
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Feb 18 2008, 11:58AM
Bmatheny wrote ...
One other thing I would like to add to this discussion is TRAINING. Benny recently went thru a certified hangun course before purchasing his new handgun. I have been thru a hunter safety course when I was 14 or so. My family was not really into guns, but I firmly believe in gun ownership rights.
If you decide to purchase or own a gun and have never used/cleaned it, or do not have it properly stored - you are not being responsible with your weapons.
It is very important that anyone who chooses to own a weapon understand how it works, how to maintain it and clean it, how to operate it in a safe mode and how to accurately USE the weapon.
When Benny first got his new gun, we went out into the forest and practised. It took us a few shots before we were able to start hitting things (bottles and cans). This is a .357 handgun and it's not easy to hit a 2.5" wide bottle at 85 yards shooting single handed or double handed. As Luna stated, I challenge anyone to go out and hit 3 out of 5 rounds after three tries.
What I'm trying to state here is that IF YOU OWN GUNS, KNOW HOW TO USE THEM AND HOW THEY OPERATE so you can be RESPONSIBLE with your weapons - that's it.
One other thing I would like to add to this discussion is TRAINING. Benny recently went thru a certified hangun course before purchasing his new handgun. I have been thru a hunter safety course when I was 14 or so. My family was not really into guns, but I firmly believe in gun ownership rights.
If you decide to purchase or own a gun and have never used/cleaned it, or do not have it properly stored - you are not being responsible with your weapons.
It is very important that anyone who chooses to own a weapon understand how it works, how to maintain it and clean it, how to operate it in a safe mode and how to accurately USE the weapon.
When Benny first got his new gun, we went out into the forest and practised. It took us a few shots before we were able to start hitting things (bottles and cans). This is a .357 handgun and it's not easy to hit a 2.5" wide bottle at 85 yards shooting single handed or double handed. As Luna stated, I challenge anyone to go out and hit 3 out of 5 rounds after three tries.
What I'm trying to state here is that IF YOU OWN GUNS, KNOW HOW TO USE THEM AND HOW THEY OPERATE so you can be RESPONSIBLE with your weapons - that's it.
Perfectly said Brad!!!
So when we going out next?
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Mon Feb 18 2008, 12:03PM
Benny wrote ...
A .45 you crazy? Talk about tearing a hole through somebody. You looking to disable an intruder or knock them into the next county? Hahha. A 22 would suit Todd just fine. Effectively disabling a person till authorities arrive. A 22 you can shoot at someone and it just kinda rattles around in their brain. Todd, next time we all go out shooting I'll letcha know so you can come out & try the differences...
bkap wrote ...
ATL, you should own a gun that you feel comfortable with and that you are able to use with ease. What I mean is there is no one gun for everybody, my wife does not like semi-autos as it is hard for her to operate the slide, but her and the daughter can do a revolver no problem. I do not recommend a shotgun or rifle for home defense as the length gets in the way, it is a good one for that but you need to practice a LOT with it to feel comfortable where as a handgun you still need to practice but you don’t have to keep dropping the barrel down.
As far as caliber I don’t recommend anything smaller then a .38+, and most people recommend a .45. At home my bedside gun is a .40 with fragmenting bullets (this way if I miss it will break apart in the wall with out going thru).
Yes, the area I live in has made it so all of us know how to use a gun and are prepared to do so if needed. This is why I am selling, anyone want to buy?
I say go to a friendly gun shop and handle a lot of guns, ask questions, a lot of them. There are no dumb ones.
If you want help ask me or any of those that are gun friendly and I’m sure we will help you.
This is for personal use, for defence of country .50 and full auto!
ATL, you should own a gun that you feel comfortable with and that you are able to use with ease. What I mean is there is no one gun for everybody, my wife does not like semi-autos as it is hard for her to operate the slide, but her and the daughter can do a revolver no problem. I do not recommend a shotgun or rifle for home defense as the length gets in the way, it is a good one for that but you need to practice a LOT with it to feel comfortable where as a handgun you still need to practice but you don’t have to keep dropping the barrel down.
As far as caliber I don’t recommend anything smaller then a .38+, and most people recommend a .45. At home my bedside gun is a .40 with fragmenting bullets (this way if I miss it will break apart in the wall with out going thru).
Yes, the area I live in has made it so all of us know how to use a gun and are prepared to do so if needed. This is why I am selling, anyone want to buy?
I say go to a friendly gun shop and handle a lot of guns, ask questions, a lot of them. There are no dumb ones.
If you want help ask me or any of those that are gun friendly and I’m sure we will help you.
This is for personal use, for defence of country .50 and full auto!
A .45 you crazy? Talk about tearing a hole through somebody. You looking to disable an intruder or knock them into the next county? Hahha. A 22 would suit Todd just fine. Effectively disabling a person till authorities arrive. A 22 you can shoot at someone and it just kinda rattles around in their brain. Todd, next time we all go out shooting I'll letcha know so you can come out & try the differences...
I'd still stick with the .45, one round to the chest and there is no way the perpetrator is going anywhere. If someone breaks into my house, I'm not looking to disable them, I'm looking to kill them.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 18 2008, 01:03PM
Training is important if through a gun shop or with a friend. You need to take a course anymore. Don't know how involved that is. You have to become familiar with it and everytime you touch it, assume it was loaded then check it anyway.
Most gun safety is just common sense, but you have to think about it. It is not something you want to learn from your mistakes. The closest call you ever want to have is picking up a gun positive that it is empty and finding that it isn't. Sometimes they seem to load themselves.
once you decide what you want.
before you buy, do some soul searching and make sure you are willing to not only bear the responsability, and have the maturity, but decide that (if for protection) you are prepared to use it immediatly. Don't think you can decide at the last second. If you try to wait to decide, you lose.
Assume he is armed
If you are not willing to live with the thought of having killed someone and still want to shoot, or hunt disable it lock it up and store it and the bolt or some other vital piece and ammo apart to help prevent it being used. I would imagine there are locks that they would have to destroy the weapon to remove the lock.
I really haven't followed improvements for ten years.
Everyone has given some good advice figure it out and do try to shoot with them you will have a blast, then let us know what you decide.
you need more then a 22 as you want more stopping power a 45 is a little heavy, but if you fire you want to make sure you can stop them or at least scare the hell out of them and make them leave. A 38 in a dark quiet room will sound like a cannon.
again you guys should send a special invite to the non gun members of the site to come along on the shoot. they can still have fun
I'm sorry I had meant to post the picture with him holding this, not the SKS
to show the range of personal weapons they had.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Mon Feb 18 2008, 01:04PM
What is the best pistol for home protection? At 1st I bought a .44 mag (was the biggest badest) and also because it was a reliable revolver. Its to big to go plinking with and sounds like a cannon. Not to good on the wrists when firing. Then got the .38 revolver thinking it would be good (the mrs. at the time adopted that one) so I got a ruger 9mm that soon started acting up so then I got a new one and fixed the old one. I like the 9mm alot because of the number of shot it holds. The .45 has lots of knock down power but doesnt seam like it is accurate at much of a distance but we are talking for in home protection. So now I'm thinking the .44 might be to much because I have to worry about neighbors down the street on the other sides of my walls. If I could I would like to invite myself to the next outing with a sample car door and house wall to see just what goes all the way through or does any body know already? 1/2" drywall on two side of an interior wall and/or 1/2" drywall on one side and T1-11 siding on the other. I'm guesing .22 will go through both as well as most other sizes. Is this why the police are issued 9mm's? Thanks for any info on this>
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 18 2008, 01:19PM
puff
that is a good idea.
I would be interested in hearing how that works out with different calibers and loads. a 22 should be stopped by the outer wall (from the inside) at a decent distance., if that is a problem use bird shot. we have taken the lead out and put wax in to hunt bats without damaging walls.
a newer car door a bb gun will probably go through, a early 50's door would be a better test, it will at least slow it down.
I always thought if I spent a lot of time down the hill I would put some kevlar inside the door of my truck.
I happen to know a 25 20 can go though the floor hit a rock or something back through the floor through clothes in a closet and lodge in the back of a freezer
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 18 2008, 02:16PM
bkap wrote ...
wife said I need to show this one. It is not ours but a friends wife it is an AR in .223cal.
YES IT IS A REAL RIFLE.
wife said I need to show this one. It is not ours but a friends wife it is an AR in .223cal.
YES IT IS A REAL RIFLE.
Hello Kitty!
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 18 2008, 02:18PM
Hey, more pink guns.... :p
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 18 2008, 02:19PM
Are you sure you don't want some gun control?
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Mon Feb 18 2008, 03:35PM
"Europeans don't understand some Americans thrills with toting guns and neither do I...."
Huh? My parents and I are from Europe and we damn well understand our RIGHT to own weapons. Gun registration in eastern europe, under the communists, led to gun CONFISCATION since they knew who had what weapons. There is pretty good reason that the Right to Bear Arms is the 2ND AMENDMENT. To protect the First Amendment! It really boggles my mind as to what kind of thinking is behind the thought of "I hate guns and don't understand why anyone should have them". How about opening ANY history book and READ and maybe, just maybe, you will understand why our forefathers realized how extremely important it is for the general population to own and be able to use guns. Isn't it funny that it is the people that have "money and influence" are trying to take our RIGHT to have guns away? George Soros, a billionaire, in cahoots with Clinton, Kennedy, etc. just to name one.
Please, please, ALL of you, don't let ANYONE take OUR RIGHT AWAY!!! Join the NRA or any other organization and help stem the tide of insanity!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 18 2008, 03:41PM
MtMan
I agree 100% except forr the "any other organization " part, I'd buy almost any other
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Feb 18 2008, 03:42PM
BBB wrote ...
Are you sure you don't want some gun control?
Are you sure you don't want some gun control?
we have "some" gun control now and I think it's currently gone too far as it is.
Pink guns or Gay's with pink (or other) guns is fine by me as long as they are RESPONSIBLE and CITIZENS OF THE US.
BTW, next SCM mini shooting day may be tomorrow afternoon at the "normal place". Everyone who wants to go is invited. PM me if you want details.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Feb 18 2008, 04:15PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
BTW, next SCM mini shooting day may be tomorrow afternoon at the "normal place". Everyone who wants to go is invited. PM me if you want details.
BTW, next SCM mini shooting day may be tomorrow afternoon at the "normal place". Everyone who wants to go is invited. PM me if you want details.
Alpine Slide, right?
Re: Gun ownership
, Mon Feb 18 2008, 04:33PM
Ego Point reserve?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 18 2008, 04:38PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
BTW, next SCM mini shooting day may be tomorrow afternoon at the "normal place". Everyone who wants to go is invited. PM me if you want details.
BTW, next SCM mini shooting day may be tomorrow afternoon at the "normal place". Everyone who wants to go is invited. PM me if you want details.
*!#$ DAGNABIT needs to be on a weekend for me to enjoy. can't make it up hill for a least 3 weeks.
FINE! Go have fun! see if i care.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Feb 18 2008, 05:51PM
PUFF wrote ...
What is the best pistol for home protection? At 1st I bought a .44 mag (was the biggest badest) and also because it was a reliable revolver. Its to big to go plinking with and sounds like a cannon. Not to good on the wrists when firing. Then got the .38 revolver thinking it would be good (the mrs. at the time adopted that one) so I got a ruger 9mm that soon started acting up so then I got a new one and fixed the old one. I like the 9mm alot because of the number of shot it holds. The .45 has lots of knock down power but doesnt seam like it is accurate at much of a distance but we are talking for in home protection. So now I'm thinking the .44 might be to much because I have to worry about neighbors down the street on the other sides of my walls. If I could I would like to invite myself to the next outing with a sample car door and house wall to see just what goes all the way through or does any body know already? 1/2" drywall on two side of an interior wall and/or 1/2" drywall on one side and T1-11 siding on the other. I'm guesing .22 will go through both as well as most other sizes. Is this why the police are issued 9mm's? Thanks for any info on this>
What is the best pistol for home protection? At 1st I bought a .44 mag (was the biggest badest) and also because it was a reliable revolver. Its to big to go plinking with and sounds like a cannon. Not to good on the wrists when firing. Then got the .38 revolver thinking it would be good (the mrs. at the time adopted that one) so I got a ruger 9mm that soon started acting up so then I got a new one and fixed the old one. I like the 9mm alot because of the number of shot it holds. The .45 has lots of knock down power but doesnt seam like it is accurate at much of a distance but we are talking for in home protection. So now I'm thinking the .44 might be to much because I have to worry about neighbors down the street on the other sides of my walls. If I could I would like to invite myself to the next outing with a sample car door and house wall to see just what goes all the way through or does any body know already? 1/2" drywall on two side of an interior wall and/or 1/2" drywall on one side and T1-11 siding on the other. I'm guesing .22 will go through both as well as most other sizes. Is this why the police are issued 9mm's? Thanks for any info on this>
Number of shots isn't too important, accuracy is, it only takes 1 shot if properly trained and practiced with. A bigger gun doesn't always mean a better gun. My .357 mag with 38 specials packs more punch than needed to disable an intruder vs one shot accurrately with a 22. I got mine because I like revolvers & it's looks, handling and accurracy, as Bmath pointed out, to hit a 3 inch clay target at 100 yards is pretty damn good.
Jibber, unfortunately you will not have the luxury to purchase any weapon for a very long time, but the need for self defense is not to kill someone, it's for responsible defense & recreation, knock them down and let the cops deal with the trash, don't give them the benefit of being dead. In the unlikely event someone comes in and kills your mom, that's a whole other discussion.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Feb 18 2008, 05:51PM
bkap wrote ...
*!#$ DAGNABIT needs to be on a weekend for me to enjoy. can't make it up hill for a least 3 weeks.
FINE! Go have fun! see if i care.
Bmatheny wrote ...
BTW, next SCM mini shooting day may be tomorrow afternoon at the "normal place". Everyone who wants to go is invited. PM me if you want details.
BTW, next SCM mini shooting day may be tomorrow afternoon at the "normal place". Everyone who wants to go is invited. PM me if you want details.
*!#$ DAGNABIT needs to be on a weekend for me to enjoy. can't make it up hill for a least 3 weeks.
FINE! Go have fun! see if i care.
The real SCM Shooting event will be held in April and will be on a weekend. Otherwise, just PM me when you are up and wanna go. You can follow me out to the location in the forest and we can have some fun plinking things.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Feb 18 2008, 05:55PM
Benny wrote ...
I got mine because I like revolvers & it's looks, handling and accurracy, as Bmath pointed out, to hit a 3 inch clay target at 100 yards is pretty damn good.
I got mine because I like revolvers & it's looks, handling and accurracy, as Bmath pointed out, to hit a 3 inch clay target at 100 yards is pretty damn good.
Benny, that's DAMN GOOD in my book with a handgun. We're not professional target shooters and our abilities to accurately hit something get better with practice.
All I know is I want to be able to hit 5 targets with 5 rounds at about 100 yards. Right now, I'm up to about 3 hits.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Feb 18 2008, 06:03PM
Yeah! No doubt, takes practice for sure. to use it against an intruder would be 15 feet with now ear protection. Owie. What time you thinking for tomorrow?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 18 2008, 06:06PM
Bmath will do.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Feb 18 2008, 10:36PM
I couldn't even see a three inch target at 100 yards. are we telling shooting stories, or fishing stories?
somebody take a tape measure to the shoot.
with a pistol at over 100 feet it's more pray & spray for me.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 19 2008, 06:20AM
bills grandson wrote ...
I couldn't even see a three inch target at 100 yards. are we telling shooting stories, or fishing stories?
somebody take a tape measure to the shoot.
with a pistol at over 100 feet it's more pray & spray for me.
I couldn't even see a three inch target at 100 yards. are we telling shooting stories, or fishing stories?
somebody take a tape measure to the shoot.
with a pistol at over 100 feet it's more pray & spray for me.
You do know which direction the target is,
right. only kidding I'm good for 15 yards then ??????????. I do better with a scope.Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 19 2008, 09:00AM
Bmatheny wrote ...
Benny, that's DAMN GOOD in my book with a handgun. We're not professional target shooters and our abilities to accurately hit something get better with practice.
All I know is I want to be able to hit 5 targets with 5 rounds at about 100 yards. Right now, I'm up to about 3 hits.
Benny wrote ...
I got mine because I like revolvers & it's looks, handling and accurracy, as Bmath pointed out, to hit a 3 inch clay target at 100 yards is pretty damn good.
I got mine because I like revolvers & it's looks, handling and accurracy, as Bmath pointed out, to hit a 3 inch clay target at 100 yards is pretty damn good.
Benny, that's DAMN GOOD in my book with a handgun. We're not professional target shooters and our abilities to accurately hit something get better with practice.
All I know is I want to be able to hit 5 targets with 5 rounds at about 100 yards. Right now, I'm up to about 3 hits.
Yes, let me correct my post. 100 FEET not YARDS. The shooting area we go to is about 100+ ft up a hillside. Any handgun at over 50 yards gets very difficult to hit things. At 100 years, Bill's Grandson is right - you "pray" you come close.
Up at the actual shooting range in BB, you can try out to 100 yards - and I have with all my guns. With pistols, you're lucky to even hit the target at 100 yards. A rifle (with a scope or without) is alot easier to sight in.
Thanks for catching my error. I'll try to grab some pictures when I go today.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 19 2008, 09:21AM
In basic training we had to qualify with the M-14. Being one of the few who knew which end the bullet came out I did quite well.
We had to shoot various targets the size of a mans torrso from ranges of 50 meters, to I think 500 meters, may have been 300.
this with iron sights.
Now being from the 60's I still have to look these things up. but it is a long way.
the only trouble was hitting the 50 meters because you had to shoot into the ground about 2 feet in front of the target.
great weapon.
Had an old rifle like Lee Harvey supposedly used and could hit a man size target at almost 1,000 yards most times . That was the furthest I ever could find to shoot.
I think the sniper record kill during Vietnam was over 1/4 mile. I would imagine it is much better now.
Shot my dads 45 and was lucky if the bullets landed in front of me. It must have been me or the 45 beacuse so many swear by them.
I think someone posted about sub sonic ammo earlier and made a error "sub sonic" is slower then the speed of sound. Only advantage that I see is it can be silenced easier. elimanates the crack of the bullit breaking the sound barrier.
hard to figure out how to lead something at distance when moving so slow.
Like most guys I think the faster the better
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:23PM
bills grandson wrote ...
In basic training we had to qualify with the M-14. Being one of the few who knew which end the bullet came out I did quite well.
We had to shoot various targets the size of a mans torrso from ranges of 50 meters, to I think 500 meters, may have been 300.
this with iron sights.
Now being from the 60's I still have to look these things up. but it is a long way.
the only trouble was hitting the 50 meters because you had to shoot into the ground about 2 feet in front of the target.
great weapon.
Had an old rifle like Lee Harvey supposedly used and could hit a man size target at almost 1,000 yards most times . That was the furthest I ever could find to shoot.
I think the sniper record kill during Vietnam was over 1/4 mile. I would imagine it is much better now.
Shot my dads 45 and was lucky if the bullets landed in front of me. It must have been me or the 45 beacuse so many swear by them.
I think someone posted about sub sonic ammo earlier and made a error "sub sonic" is slower then the speed of sound. Only advantage that I see is it can be silenced easier. elimanates the crack of the bullit breaking the sound barrier.
hard to figure out how to lead something at distance when moving so slow.
Like most guys I think the faster the better
In basic training we had to qualify with the M-14. Being one of the few who knew which end the bullet came out I did quite well.
We had to shoot various targets the size of a mans torrso from ranges of 50 meters, to I think 500 meters, may have been 300.
this with iron sights.
Now being from the 60's I still have to look these things up. but it is a long way.
the only trouble was hitting the 50 meters because you had to shoot into the ground about 2 feet in front of the target.
great weapon.
Had an old rifle like Lee Harvey supposedly used and could hit a man size target at almost 1,000 yards most times . That was the furthest I ever could find to shoot.
I think the sniper record kill during Vietnam was over 1/4 mile. I would imagine it is much better now.
Shot my dads 45 and was lucky if the bullets landed in front of me. It must have been me or the 45 beacuse so many swear by them.
I think someone posted about sub sonic ammo earlier and made a error "sub sonic" is slower then the speed of sound. Only advantage that I see is it can be silenced easier. elimanates the crack of the bullit breaking the sound barrier.
hard to figure out how to lead something at distance when moving so slow.
Like most guys I think the faster the better
That's respect right there. The maximum effective range of a modern day .50 cal sniper rifle is 2000 yards or aprox. 1.14 miles.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 19 2008, 04:54PM
I would love to fire one of those things. must be up to about 5.00 a shell by now.
hard to believe something could hit at that range. the target could walk ten feet between the time it was fired and the bullet arrived. But I guess if you are shooting HE it would be good.
Thats like standing on divison and hitting someone on greenway, you would have to have some elevation to see them. would love to see the optics
what is that about 2 seconds flight time?
I think they still rely heavely on the m-14 and
the fancy 30-06 for everyday sniping.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 19 2008, 05:00PM
well, we went out and tried something different today. We setup three targets (boxes) at about 35~40ft out and gave ourselves 5 rnds & 5 seconds to hit what you could. No pre-aiming, pull it up and shoot. Kind of a simulation of "sudden death". I was only able to hit one target each time.
The other guys I went with also got 1. We tried about 3 times each and none of us "gun guys" could hit more than one in 5 seconds at 40ft in 5 seconds.
Sucks huh??
Sub sonic was me. Here are the specs on my "cannon"
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
This is the ammo for it I'm shooting -> [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Tue Feb 19 2008, 05:01PM
bills grandson wrote ...
I would love to fire one of those things. must be up to about 5.00 a shell by now.
hard to believe something could hit at that range. the target could walk ten feet between the time it was fired and the bullet arrived. But I guess if you are shooting HE it would be good.
Thats like standing on divison and hitting someone on greenway, you would have to have some elevation to see them. would love to see the optics
what is that about 2 seconds flight time?
I think they still rely heavely on the m-14 and
the fancy 30-06 for everyday sniping.
I would love to fire one of those things. must be up to about 5.00 a shell by now.
hard to believe something could hit at that range. the target could walk ten feet between the time it was fired and the bullet arrived. But I guess if you are shooting HE it would be good.
Thats like standing on divison and hitting someone on greenway, you would have to have some elevation to see them. would love to see the optics
what is that about 2 seconds flight time?
I think they still rely heavely on the m-14 and
the fancy 30-06 for everyday sniping.
Well at long distances it gets even tougher because you have to account for the Coriolis effect as well. That's just crazy if you can hit and kill something at over a mile.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 19 2008, 05:19PM
Not to mention the bullet drops!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 19 2008, 05:40PM
FYI, my russian cannon shoots rounds at about 2500~2700 fts. So that's about 1 mile in about 2 seconds.
SuperSonic is 1129 fps. I guess I was right about my cannon.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 19 2008, 06:58PM
my point on the sub sonic is he would hear the shot before it hit him.
there is another reason is that the slug will tumble when it hits the target here is a site on subsonic ammo
[Click Here]
you might try something best with rifle but could work with a pistol two handed (not with a revolver if you want to keep your finger)
due to close range shooting and needed fast reaction times they had us train with bb guns shooting disc's as small as a quarter in the air.
It was Annie Oakleys secret and you lay an index finger in line with the barrel and shoot without aiming you can do it where you sit but you will look silly.
pointing with your finger is remarkably accurate.It could be done one handed if you learn to pull the trigger with your second finger but would take some practice
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Tue Feb 19 2008, 07:56PM
22 pages? C'mon people, break it up!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 19 2008, 08:08PM
Inky
just a hint
Cancel thread tracking
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 19 2008, 08:14PM
Inky wrote ...
22 pages? C'mon people, break it up!
22 pages? C'mon people, break it up!
We have a hobby. Thhhhhhhh!!!!! :p
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 19 2008, 08:23PM
23 pages 2,600 visits, 222 posts
were still number one.... with a bullet
(pun intended)
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Feb 19 2008, 10:28PM
Some people have been shooting blanks, though....
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 20 2008, 06:29AM
bills grandson wrote ...
23 pages 2,600 visits, 222 posts
were still number one.... with a bullet
(pun intended)
23 pages 2,600 visits, 222 posts
were still number one.... with a bullet
(pun intended)
sounds like a gang bang (yes pun intended)Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Wed Feb 20 2008, 07:17AM
Subsonic rounds are great. The soft nose .22 in the rifle make less sound than the pellet gun. I gotta try the 9mm sub sonic rounds to see if I can set up a shooting gallery inside my house
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 20 2008, 08:23AM
Jim Mcalister had a underground shooting range at his house. He was an expert on guns and built Stocks that are highly collectible. I have my grandfathers 30-06 with a manzanita stock made by McAlister. He sold stocks made for guns but they also need to fit the shooter to be apreciated.
We had an old 45-70 which was a single shot breach lock. Similar to a buffalo gun.
Fired an enormous slug. had a bunch of ammo so a friend and I decided to shoot it.
We had always shot at the big house (mansion).
In case it blew up we tied it to a chair and used a string to fire it the first few times. Pointed it at a tree and almost blew it apart. (I know I'll catch it for that)
Put some bricks up near the barn and blew them apart. I had an old wooden boat that sat behind the bricks and one shot hit it in the keel and blew a hole on the backside about a foot across.
It was subsonic but far from quiet.
We also had a 30-40 Kraig that had the barrel tapped to attach a silencer. It was bought Surplus from the Spanish American war and I guess it came that way. By far the quietest is a 22 high standard semi auto pistol that can be locked so it dosen't eject the shell which made it much quieter
Does anyone remember the old Klen ads that sold sold guns and ammo very cheap.
I think the Kennedy assination put them out of bussines
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Wed Feb 20 2008, 09:29AM
Finally picked up my new Glock 17 yesterday and need to go try it out. Anybody want to go?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Feb 20 2008, 11:48AM
PUFF wrote ...
Finally picked up my new Glock 17 yesterday and need to go try it out. Anybody want to go?
Finally picked up my new Glock 17 yesterday and need to go try it out. Anybody want to go?
pick a nice day and let us know. I just went out yesterday and at the rate I'm going, I'll need more ammo soon..
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 20 2008, 01:43PM
Bmath, welfar-mart has best price on bulk ammo for common cal.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 20 2008, 05:31PM
My .357 goes 1100 fps 2700 is damn fast.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Feb 20 2008, 05:32PM
bkap wrote ...
Bmath, welfar-mart has best price on bulk ammo for common cal.
Bmath, welfar-mart has best price on bulk ammo for common cal.
Walmart or Kmart? I Kmart doesn't.
Re: Gun ownership
Conifer Lover, Wed Feb 20 2008, 05:50PM
benji and bmath, i would like to go with you guys someday, i have never been shooting before
Re: Gun ownership
Conifer Lover, Wed Feb 20 2008, 06:50PM
this can happen [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 20 2008, 07:09PM
still loading on dial up but saw one once from San Bernardino where they arrested a guy passed through 3 officers, supposedly searched, and shot himself in the the interogation room. very sad to watch.
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Wed Feb 20 2008, 07:47PM
Anyone want to go shooting Sunday afternoon?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Feb 20 2008, 08:40PM
dd wrote ...
Anyone want to go shooting Sunday afternoon?
Anyone want to go shooting Sunday afternoon?
could be a wicked drive out to the "normal place" by then. Maybe I'll have to show you some other spots that would be easier.
If I'm here, I'll go.
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Wed Feb 20 2008, 09:43PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
could be a wicked drive out to the "normal place" by then. Maybe I'll have to show you some other spots that would be easier.
If I'm here, I'll go.
dd wrote ...
Anyone want to go shooting Sunday afternoon?
Anyone want to go shooting Sunday afternoon?
could be a wicked drive out to the "normal place" by then. Maybe I'll have to show you some other spots that would be easier.
If I'm here, I'll go.
I've got a 28 inch tv I'm donating to the target portion of the even. I just request to shoot it with the canon.
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Wed Feb 20 2008, 10:45PM
24 pages. Is this some kind of record?
Wait. Apparently it just went 25. Someone just shoot me.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Feb 20 2008, 10:51PM
Inky wrote ...
24 pages. Is this some kind of record?
Wait. Apparently it just went 25. Someone just shoot me.
24 pages. Is this some kind of record?
Wait. Apparently it just went 25. Someone just shoot me.
We certainly do appreciate your help!!!
.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Feb 20 2008, 11:05PM
Jibber, I'll help you clean up afterward. I think we need to bring rakes, trash bags and trucks to "maintain" our shooting area. I'm pretty sure the forest people would appreciate it??
There's also a ton of brass out there!!! Kinda helps if you have a reloader and time. Saves lots of money.
Looks like we need to plan a date/time and GO. We have enough interest from members.
DD, wanna plan something with me?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Feb 20 2008, 11:14PM
Conifer Lover wrote ...
benji and bmath, i would like to go with you guys someday, i have never been shooting before
benji and bmath, i would like to go with you guys someday, i have never been shooting before
sure, maybe Benny and I should do a basic gun safety and operation course before any "new shooter" handles a gun. We're not licensed to teach this stuff, but we know our guns.
You, my friend, start with a .22 or handgun with 3~5 rounds as you learn. It's alot of fun.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Feb 20 2008, 11:14PM
uh-oh Inky, 4 more posts and we closing in on 30 pages ++.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 20 2008, 11:57PM
Bmatheny
thought you guys would like to see some other toys and this seemed like as good a time as any anything else you would like
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:55AM
Looks like fun BG. I'm pretty sure those went BANG louder than anyting I have.
Thanks!!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 21 2008, 06:12AM
Bmatheny wrote ...
Jibber, I'll help you clean up afterward. I think we need to bring rakes, trash bags and trucks to "maintain" our shooting area. I'm pretty sure the forest people would appreciate it??
There's also a ton of brass out there!!! Kinda helps if you have a reloader and time. Saves lots of money.
Looks like we need to plan a date/time and GO. We have enough interest from members.
DD, wanna plan something with me?
Jibber, I'll help you clean up afterward. I think we need to bring rakes, trash bags and trucks to "maintain" our shooting area. I'm pretty sure the forest people would appreciate it??
There's also a ton of brass out there!!! Kinda helps if you have a reloader and time. Saves lots of money.
Looks like we need to plan a date/time and GO. We have enough interest from members.
DD, wanna plan something with me?
It is always important to maintain a clean shooting area. It keeps the authorities happy and they then tend to let you alone more.
Hope I can make it there for at least one or two shoots.
Just picked up a new to me P226 9mm Sig. The gun shop has a range downstairs so I do get to shoot regularly.
Teaching new people is great it brings more in to the sport and they also learn safty.
Oh BG great shots of some nice machinery.
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Thu Feb 21 2008, 07:04AM
I had always heard that it is good educate to be polishing the shotgun when some young suitor man comes to pick up your daughter for a milk shake.
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Thu Feb 21 2008, 07:13AM
dont shoot the jelly donuts!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 21 2008, 07:19AM
Jerry
so how many times did this happen to you????
I got the "what are your intentions" speech once over an innocent afternoon 4WD ride, but never that one. I'd probably end up having more in common with him and dump her.
whats really bad is meeting her mom and dad and finding they are your age, or younger.
26 pages now
wooo wooo as homer would say
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Thu Feb 21 2008, 08:20AM
Wow, BG's big guns make Brad's look like... Oh well. Never mind.
Yep. Let's plan something guys. Weekend afternoons (around 3 or later) are best for me until the mountain closes.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 21 2008, 09:19AM
dd wrote ...
Wow, BG's big guns make Brad's look like... Oh well. Never mind.
Yep. Let's plan something guys. Weekend afternoons (around 3 or later) are best for me until the mountain closes.
Wow, BG's big guns make Brad's look like... Oh well. Never mind.
Yep. Let's plan something guys. Weekend afternoons (around 3 or later) are best for me until the mountain closes.
You just HAD to say that - didn't you??
Remember, in about 2 weeks you'll be due for 45 spankings. I'll be sure to make sure you get'em girl!!
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Thu Feb 21 2008, 10:36AM
Hey Brad, you don't have a brother named Casey at BYU by any chance? Check out the last couple of paragraphs from this article about carrying on campus in Utah. :-)
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 21 2008, 11:23AM
L18FlyBoy wrote ...
Hey Brad, you don't have a brother named Casey at BYU by any chance? Check out the last couple of paragraphs from this article about carrying on campus in Utah. :-)
[Click Here]
Hey Brad, you don't have a brother named Casey at BYU by any chance? Check out the last couple of paragraphs from this article about carrying on campus in Utah. :-)
[Click Here]
No doubt he is some kind of distant relative of mine, but I don't know him. Matheny's originated in the US in the mid 1700s in West Virginia. We have a book that details our family history to the 1400s in France. I guess we were royalty back there
BTW, it was a Matheny that married Abraham Lincoln to his wife. Bet you did not know that?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 21 2008, 11:57AM
DD
please don't write checks I can't cash even with the Anonymity of the internet I find it better not to raise expectations
painful as it is for an army guy to admit.
the navy had the bigger guns
23 mile range firing a shell that weighs as much as a VW. from the beach you see a flash over the horizon at sea, hear the shell overhead then seeing a flash over the horizon to the west then hearing the explosion. Of course the B-52's could drop the most tonnage.
glad they were on our side.
Re: Gun ownership
Jen&Shady, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:09PM
Let's make this thread a bit longer....here's me trap shooting at Alvord mine!
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:26PM
Guns don't kill kittens; kittens kill kittens. No. Wait. That's all wrong.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:30PM
Inky wrote ...
Guns don't kill kittens; kittens kill kittens. No. Wait. That's all wrong.
[Click Here]
Guns don't kill kittens; kittens kill kittens. No. Wait. That's all wrong.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:37PM
I thought it was curioskitty that killed the kitty.
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Thu Feb 21 2008, 12:48PM
Here comes Page 27!
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 21 2008, 01:09PM
I still don't care for guns.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 21 2008, 01:24PM
inky
I'm not a cat person but this is funny
I always thought they were nuts
hope you can get it to load
1203628327_659_FT44814_abadcatday.wmvRe: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 21 2008, 01:45PM
so how many pages is the most so far?
Oh here's a pic of ................... well you tell me.
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Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 21 2008, 01:59PM
For next time anyone goes shooting here are some safety tips;
Re: Gun ownership
, Thu Feb 21 2008, 03:18PM
In the words of Susan Powter.... Stop the insanity!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 21 2008, 03:37PM
all right Brandon
get rid of her and I'll get rid of my guns
I thought she was just a nightmare from long ago
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 21 2008, 05:37PM
BBB wrote ...
In the words of Susan Powter.... Stop the insanity!
In the words of Susan Powter.... Stop the insanity!
tanks eye needed that.
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Thu Feb 21 2008, 06:31PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
You just HAD to say that - didn't you??
Remember, in about 2 weeks you'll be due for 45 spankings. I'll be sure to make sure you get'em girl!!
dd wrote ...
Wow, BG's big guns make Brad's look like... Oh well. Never mind.
Yep. Let's plan something guys. Weekend afternoons (around 3 or later) are best for me until the mountain closes.
Wow, BG's big guns make Brad's look like... Oh well. Never mind.
Yep. Let's plan something guys. Weekend afternoons (around 3 or later) are best for me until the mountain closes.
You just HAD to say that - didn't you??
Remember, in about 2 weeks you'll be due for 45 spankings. I'll be sure to make sure you get'em girl!!
Yep.
And, so will you!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 21 2008, 08:23PM
dd wrote ...
Yep.
And, so will you!
Bmatheny wrote ...
You just HAD to say that - didn't you??
Remember, in about 2 weeks you'll be due for 45 spankings. I'll be sure to make sure you get'em girl!!
dd wrote ...
Wow, BG's big guns make Brad's look like... Oh well. Never mind.
Yep. Let's plan something guys. Weekend afternoons (around 3 or later) are best for me until the mountain closes.
Wow, BG's big guns make Brad's look like... Oh well. Never mind.
Yep. Let's plan something guys. Weekend afternoons (around 3 or later) are best for me until the mountain closes.
You just HAD to say that - didn't you??
Remember, in about 2 weeks you'll be due for 45 spankings. I'll be sure to make sure you get'em girl!!
Yep.
And, so will you!
OK - Fine!! Whoever pins the other to the ground first delivers the Bday spankings.
BTW, I promise I'll let you win.
Re: Gun ownership
Stringfellow, Thu Feb 21 2008, 11:24PM
bearjibber wrote ...
I've got a 28 inch tv I'm donating to the target portion of the even. I just request to shoot it with the canon.
Bmatheny wrote ...
could be a wicked drive out to the "normal place" by then. Maybe I'll have to show you some other spots that would be easier.
If I'm here, I'll go.
dd wrote ...
Anyone want to go shooting Sunday afternoon?
Anyone want to go shooting Sunday afternoon?
could be a wicked drive out to the "normal place" by then. Maybe I'll have to show you some other spots that would be easier.
If I'm here, I'll go.
I've got a 28 inch tv I'm donating to the target portion of the even. I just request to shoot it with the canon.
If you're going to shoot a television, I hope you do it in your own house. there's absolutely no reason something like that should be shot at anywhere else.
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Thu Feb 21 2008, 11:54PM
I shot a TV once. And it was in the house too.
I was probably 7 or 8 years old at the time.
It was our family's 'old' black and white TV. Not sure exactly how old, probably dated from the late 1950s. I was armed with a state of the art --- squirt gun! The TV was on and when the cold water from the squirt gun hit the front of the TV the protective front glass shattered. Boy was I in trouble. Haven't thought about that in years.
Re: Gun ownership
Around The Lake, Fri Feb 22 2008, 01:16PM
Fly it must have scared you almost to death.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Feb 22 2008, 01:49PM
Well, if it continues to dump like it's doing now, shooting on Sunday may be out of the question.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Feb 22 2008, 06:23PM
Stringfellow wrote ...
If you're going to shoot a television, I hope you do it in your own house. there's absolutely no reason something like that should be shot at anywhere else.
bearjibber wrote ...
I've got a 28 inch tv I'm donating to the target portion of the even. I just request to shoot it with the canon.
Bmatheny wrote ...
could be a wicked drive out to the "normal place" by then. Maybe I'll have to show you some other spots that would be easier.
If I'm here, I'll go.
dd wrote ...
Anyone want to go shooting Sunday afternoon?
Anyone want to go shooting Sunday afternoon?
could be a wicked drive out to the "normal place" by then. Maybe I'll have to show you some other spots that would be easier.
If I'm here, I'll go.
I've got a 28 inch tv I'm donating to the target portion of the even. I just request to shoot it with the canon.
If you're going to shoot a television, I hope you do it in your own house. there's absolutely no reason something like that should be shot at anywhere else.
How bout in a field of the San Bernardino Bladderpods?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Feb 24 2008, 09:00AM
DD's Shooting Day (today) has been cancelled do to the weather and the fact that she has the BB Crud again. I called her yesterday and she told me "she got it again" and had already been to the Doc.
Besides, with weather like this, it would just be a day out in the mud. Next time folks.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Feb 24 2008, 11:36AM
Sorry to hear that but Oh well, maybe I'll be there for the next one.
Or make arrangements for another time.
Picking up a Sig 220ST tomorrow in .45cal. whooo hoooo
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Feb 24 2008, 11:42AM
bkap wrote ...
Sorry to hear that but Oh well, maybe I'll be there for the next one.
Or make arrangements for another time.
Picking up a Sig 220ST tomorrow in .45cal. whooo hoooo
Sorry to hear that but Oh well, maybe I'll be there for the next one.
Or make arrangements for another time.
Picking up a Sig 220ST tomorrow in .45cal. whooo hoooo
Didn't you just get another gun a few weeks ago or was that someone else??
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 25 2008, 06:28AM
yes I did, PPT are a legal way to buy more then you need.
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Tue Feb 26 2008, 10:19AM
Bmatheny wrote ...
DD's Shooting Day (today) has been cancelled do to the weather and the fact that she has the BB Crud again. I called her yesterday and she told me "she got it again" and had already been to the Doc.
Besides, with weather like this, it would just be a day out in the mud. Next time folks.
DD's Shooting Day (today) has been cancelled do to the weather and the fact that she has the BB Crud again. I called her yesterday and she told me "she got it again" and had already been to the Doc.
Besides, with weather like this, it would just be a day out in the mud. Next time folks.
Again? This is the first time I've gotten the crud. You must be mistaking me with someone else.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Feb 26 2008, 04:17PM
Oh yeah. That was the other person that wanted to go shooting last Sunday that recently got the crud.
Could have been a dozen people on SCM
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Feb 26 2008, 07:01PM
Went out shooting with my pops today, haven't done that in 15+ years with him, lots of fun. Bmath we were hitting the 3" clay targers at 50-70 yards roughly 150+ feet. So yer earlier post earlier was actually accurrate. I have clay targets and a custom made launcher. It's a blast, when ya wanna go next?
Re: Gun ownership
MIKE, Tue Feb 26 2008, 07:19PM
I used to be able to hit a thrown clay with a .22 rifle. Then we figured those bullets went a long ways and it was not safe to do that anymore. Wonder if I could still do it.
Re: Gun ownership
inky, Tue Feb 26 2008, 11:02PM
Really? 29 pages?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 26 2008, 11:36PM
"I love the smell of hoppes #9 in the morning"
why is it the girls waste money (usually ours) on expensive perfume, when if they want a burley mountain man, all they need is a dab of hoppes behind the ear and knee?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 27 2008, 06:15AM
Inky wrote ...
Really? 29 pages?
Really? 29 pages?
And still going!
BGS, my wife uses that to tell what I've done that day, if she smells #9 she knows I've been cleaning the "toys".
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 27 2008, 07:59AM
bkap
your toys?.... or her toys??????
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Feb 27 2008, 09:06AM
bills grandson wrote ...
bkap
your toys?.... or her toys??????
bkap
your toys?.... or her toys??????
Nope not going that way, not going to touch that, nope no way!!
her toy is a Sig P232 and she maintains it.
Re: Gun ownership
Blakey, Wed Feb 27 2008, 11:12PM
speaking of guns...im selling my .22 cal winchester (1945 i believe) target rifle in EXCELLENT condition if anyone is interested...includes winchester aluminum hard case.
Re: Gun ownership
Jen&Shady, Wed Feb 27 2008, 11:55PM
One..................more.......... .........page...................... ................................... ...................... . . . . .. ?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 28 2008, 06:35AM
Blakey wrote ...
speaking of guns...im selling my .22 cal winchester (1945 i believe) target rifle in EXCELLENT condition if anyone is interested...includes winchester aluminum hard case.
speaking of guns...im selling my .22 cal winchester (1945 i believe) target rifle in EXCELLENT condition if anyone is interested...includes winchester aluminum hard case.
Blakey got any pic's?
I maybe interested.
30 pages
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Thu Mar 13 2008, 10:36PM
This will never happen in CA (though I'd be in favor of it)...
Just heard on the news while driving home about a bill in West Virginia that would create an elective class for high school students to teach them about hunting and gun safety.
The liberal media will have a field day with that one!
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Thu Mar 13 2008, 10:40PM
L18FlyBoy wrote ...
This will never happen in CA (though I'd be in favor of it)...
Just heard on the news while driving home about a bill in West Virginia that would create an elective class for high school students to teach them about hunting and gun safety.
The liberal media will have a field day with that one!
This will never happen in CA (though I'd be in favor of it)...
Just heard on the news while driving home about a bill in West Virginia that would create an elective class for high school students to teach them about hunting and gun safety.
The liberal media will have a field day with that one!
My entire family got their huntng licences about 12 years ago. None of us has ever killed a thing. It's a good thing to have though....just in case
Re: Gun ownership
vince, Thu Mar 13 2008, 10:59PM
I clean my gun every chance I get ....
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Sun Mar 16 2008, 05:56PM
World news on CH7 just reported that the US Supreme Court is set to hear a case originating out of Washington DC regarding the 2nd amendment-right to bear arms.
A woman there is suing the city because she cannot own or possess a handgun inside of her residence to protect herself. She, like many others, want the ability to protect themselves against the armed criminals in the city.
I think it was posted earlier in the thread, but after DC banned guns, violent crime spiked in the city. According to the news, a town in Georgia took the opposite approach and requested that the citizens arm themselves. Can anyone guess what happened?? You guessed it, violent crime went down.
It will be very interesting and could have a major impact on what the US Supreme Court decides this week. Being that most justices on the bench now are conservative, we should be OK. Thank God this was not being reviewed several years ago when the bench was much more liberal.
Never know though.....
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Sun Mar 23 2008, 07:46AM
The next post is another law trying to be passed to chip away at the 2nd amendment. You have to admire the tactics on how they erode away our rights in this country, bit by bit. I look at the country south of the US and how great it going to be here as we loose our freedoms and assimilate to our new culture. It is only a 35-dollar fee and we know all the criminals will turn in their ammo if they can not pass the muster. I will feel safer after this is passed knowing government is keeping the bullets only in the right hands and not the left one.
Re: Gun ownership
Hooky Bobber, Sun Mar 23 2008, 07:47AM
California Assembly to Consider Severe Restrictions on Ammunition Sales!
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
Stand Up and Make Your Voice Heard Today!
On Tuesday, April 8, the Assembly Public Safety Committee will consider legislation that would require gun owners to obtain a “permit-to-purchase” before buying handgun ammunition.
Introduced by State Assembly Member Kevin De Leon (D-45), Assembly Bill 2062 puts ammunition sales in the crosshairs. AB2062 would require that law-abiding gun owners obtain a permit to buy handgun ammunition and would impose severe restrictions on the private transfers of handgun ammunition. Applicants for a “permit-to-purchase” would be required to submit to a background check, pay a $35 fee, and wait as long as 30 days to receive the permit.
Under AB2062, it would be unlawful to privately transfer more than 50 rounds of ammunition per month, even between family and friends, unless you are registered as a “handgun ammunition vendor” in the Department of Justice’s database. Ammunition retailers would have to be licensed and store ammunition in such a manner that it would be inaccessible to purchasers. The bill would also require vendors to keep a record of the transaction including the ammunition buyer’s name, driver’s license, the quantity, caliber and type of ammunition purchased, and right thumbprint, which would be submitted to the Department of Justice or the number of his handgun ammunition purchase permit. Vendors would be required to contact the purchase permit database, to verify the validity of a permit before completing a sale. All ammunition sales in the State of California would be subject to a $3 per transaction tax. Lastly, mail order ammunition sales would be prohibited. Any violator of AB2062 would be subject to civil fines.
Please contact the members of the Assembly Public Safety Committee and your State Assembly Member TODAY and respectfully urge them to oppose this onerous attack on our Second Amendment freedoms. Contact information for the committee members can be found below. Please click here to find your State Assembly Member.
State Assembly Member Jose Solorio (D-69), Chair
(916) 319-2069
Assemblymember.solorio©assembly.ca.gov
State Assembly Member Greg Aghazarian, (R-26), Vice Chair
(916) 319-2026
Assemblymember.aghazarian©assembly.ca.gov
State Assembly Member Joel Anderson (R-77)
(916) 319-2077
Assemblymember.Anderson©assembly.ca.gov
State Assembly Member Hector De La Torre (D-50)
(916) 319-2050
Assemblymember.DeLaTorre©assembly.ca.gov
State Assembly Member Fiona Ma (D-12)
(916) 319-2012
Assemblymember.Ma©assembly.ca.gov
State Assembly Member Anthony J. Portantino (D-44)
(916) 319-2044
Assemblymember.Portantino©assembly.ca.gov
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Sun Mar 23 2008, 08:39AM
it doesnt matter what the law says, criminals will get guns and ammo if they want it. criminals are criminals that's why they're criminals they don't care about silly laws
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Sun Mar 23 2008, 09:10AM
Mel wrote ...
it doesnt matter what the law says, criminals will get guns and ammo if they want it. criminals are criminals that's why they're criminals they don't care about silly laws
it doesnt matter what the law says, criminals will get guns and ammo if they want it. criminals are criminals that's why they're criminals they don't care about silly laws
Exactly, gun control takes guns out of the hands of honest Americans.
Re: Gun ownership
, Sun Mar 23 2008, 09:17AM
I'd rather have the guns taken out of the hands of the wackos and crazies. Some of them are honest....
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Sun Mar 23 2008, 09:19AM
BBB wrote ...
I'd rather have the guns taken out of the hands of the wackos and crazies. Some of them are honest....
I'd rather have the guns taken out of the hands of the wackos and crazies. Some of them are honest....
Some. The majority of Americans who own guns know how to use them and would never commit a crime with a gun.
Re: Gun ownership
cricket, Sun Mar 23 2008, 09:31AM
you are right about that one jibber.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 23 2008, 10:06AM
bearjibber wrote ...
Some. The majority of Americans who own guns know how to use them and would never commit a crime with a gun.
BBB wrote ...
I'd rather have the guns taken out of the hands of the wackos and crazies. Some of them are honest....
I'd rather have the guns taken out of the hands of the wackos and crazies. Some of them are honest....
Some. The majority of Americans who own guns know how to use them and would never commit a crime with a gun.
+ a million
It's not the legal owner honest people need worry about it's the ones that buy it on the street you got to worry about.
Most of us don't want to use it to protect our familys and home but will if needed to. the others WILL use it to take from you.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Mar 28 2008, 04:43PM
Kinda long, I found it interesting when you have some time to read up... You may have also gotten this already in email.
Adios Amigos
Do you remember when Puerto Rico was raising heck about the US Navy using that nothing little island just off the coast of Puerto Rico for bombing practices, which they had used for the past 75 years?
Demonstrations were held; Hollywood left wingers, Al Sharpton, and his fellow demagogues went down there to demonstrate to get the Navy out?
I am sure it infuriated you just as it did me at the time. Well, here is our revenge. Always be careful what you ask for, you just may get it!
One of the many headaches that the U.S. has had was the Puerto Rican island of Vieques . In the waning years of the Clinton Administration protesters demand that the US Navy abandon bombing and naval gunfire exercises that had taken place on the largely uninhabited island for nearly seventy years.
In 2002, the bombing exercises were transferred to an Air Force bombing range in central Florida not far from Jacksonville and Pensacola Naval Air Station s. In January, many of the protesters were back in Puerto Rico, celebrating the final bombing exercise on Vieques and waved Puerto Rican flags and placards that read 'U. S. Navy, get out of Puerto Rico.'
The following February, Rumsfeld announced that the U. S. Navy will close the Roosevelt Roads Naval Air Station in Puerto Rico in 2004, eliminating 1200 civilian jobs as well as 700 military positions. This naval facility is estimated to have put nearly $300 million annually into the local economy.
The next day a stunned Governor Sila Calderon, held a news conference in San Juan protesting the base closure as a serious blow to the Commonwealth's fragile economy. The governor stated that 'The people of Puerto Rico don't now or never did have an interest in closing the Vieques bombing range or the Roosevelt Roads naval base. We are i nterested in both staying in Puerto Rico .
When asked, the Commander-in-Chief, Western Atlantic Command, said, 'Without Vieques, I see no further need for the facility at Roosevelt Roads. None.'
So, Yankee go home? Fine. But we'll take our dollars with us. Hasta la vista, baby!
On February 21, the Secretary of Defense also announced that starting this year, the U.S. European Command would begin moving most, if not all, of its active combat and support units from bases in Germany to others being established in Poland, The Czech Republic, Hungary and Turkey to 'better position them for rapid deployment to likely hot spots in those parts of the world.'
Immediately the business and government leaders in the German states of Hesse, Rineland and Wurttemburg, protested the loss of nearly $6 billion US revenue each year from the bases and manpower to be displaced. A spokesman for the Foreign Ministry speculated that the move may be 'what the Americans call 'payback' for the actions of this government in opposing Military action in Iraq .'
'Does anyone know the German translation for: 'Hasta la vista, baby?' I think 'Aufwiedersehen, linesmen' is a good translation.
Oh, isn't it nice to see a government with guts and a good memory???
Also, here are some statistics and conclusions about a different subject.
If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2,112 deaths, when this was written) that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers.
The firearm death rate in Washington D. C. is 80.6 per 100,000 for the same period. (...and that was while handguns were outlawed!!)
That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in the U. S. Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.
PASS THIS ON 'cuz you can be sure that CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS won't!
Conclusion:
Maybe the U.S. should pull out of Washington , D.C. !!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Mar 28 2008, 05:02PM
Very interesting Benny! It's nice to see what happens when the US pulls out of some place we arn't wanted that they THEN realize what we did for them.
Servers 'em all right!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Jun 01 2008, 02:34AM
thought I'd bring back an oldie but goodie in response to inky stating she was fooled to gun right;s site's, she didn't avoide this one, and am sure she will be one of the first to check it out this time
love ya inky
I'm sure we can get a few more pages added to this one now that shooting season is back.
cleaned my .380 the other day, first time in a long time. my favorite handgun of all time.
I load every other round with hollow points, was wondering if anyone has expiremented with coating slugs with teflon coatings, with so many bad guys getting kevlar.??
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Jun 01 2008, 05:46AM
I have a .380 too. Mine is the "James Bond" Beretta (I believe Model 97). Very nice and accurate little gun.
I have about 70 rnds of hollow point ammo for it, but save that for when I need it.
I know nothing of teflon coating any ammo. I had a friend who used to work for the NY Police Department and he told me they were pretty common back there.
I'm sure getting this thread to 40 pages will just thrill Inky
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Sun Jun 01 2008, 08:03AM
ITS ALIVE
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 01 2008, 08:42AM
Hey it will never go away! And thats a good thing.
I love my little Sig p232 .380 it is easy to carry and is real accurate, I do have hollow points for it but only for defence, for practise use full metal jacket ammo.
Sounds like we need another day at the range, soon.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Jun 01 2008, 09:38AM
I think we need to plan one. You know I'm ready.
Re: Gun ownership
, Sun Jun 01 2008, 11:05AM
Timely too since some wacko just shot a bride and groom up at a wedding in Arkansas (I think that's where it was.).
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 01 2008, 12:00PM
BBB, had he used a car he was driving while drunk would you call for a ban on alcohol or on cars?
If people want to kill they will use what ever is available. I have not seen a call for a ban on baseball bats and they have been use to kill, what about steak knifes? The list goes on and on, there is a quote "saying the gun was responsible for killing is like saying the pencile was responsible for misspelling". It is the person on the other end that is in control of it that is responsible.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 01 2008, 12:02PM
Bmath, lets try to make it on a Saturday this time OK?
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Jun 01 2008, 12:46PM
BBB wrote ...
Timely too since some wacko just shot a bride and groom up at a wedding in Arkansas (I think that's where it was.).
Timely too since some wacko just shot a bride and groom up at a wedding in Arkansas (I think that's where it was.).
Well, I hope some participant or other had a weapons permit and BLASTED THE HECK out of that shooter for all of us.
I firmly believe that if more people were allowed ot carry weapons to protect themselves, family and society, idiots like this would quickly become a DIEING BREED (literally).
Now gangs are a different problem, that is where the police and SOCIETY have to decide "enough is enough", then go thru neighborhoods like they are doing in Iraq targeting suspects.
We can take our streets and cities back, but not by GIVING IT TO THEM.
Re: Gun ownership
, Sun Jun 01 2008, 08:45PM
This might not be the right thread to jump in with a question such as this but...
Does anybody own any Airsoft guns? I just recently became interested in them, mostly for plinking around in the backyard as it's something inexpensive and rather harmless... unless you're aiming at someone's face! Watch out robbers... I WILL put a pellet in your eye! And then I will poke you...
Anyway, just curious...
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Aug 27 2008, 01:29PM
I've been thinking about some home protection for my mother. Her eyesight isn't what it once was so I was thinking of this,
Inky, whatever you don't open this.
(I emailed it to brandon already)
didn't seem to work try below to my next post
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Aug 27 2008, 01:44PM
Billsgrandson, won't open on my comp.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Aug 27 2008, 02:18PM
I'll try it again a different way not really how to post a video, and not a shortcut. If it dosent work send me a email and I'll forward it. It is really cool
it may just be to large to post
1219871855_659_FT44814_glockwithdrummagmd.wmvRe: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Thu Aug 28 2008, 05:46PM
Bad vision with a glock? Buy her a dog.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Aug 28 2008, 05:48PM
I figured 100 rounds in about 4 seconds would do the trick
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Sep 05 2008, 05:39PM
I think our next VP supports private gun ownership!
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Sep 05 2008, 06:31PM
Excellent!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Sep 05 2008, 08:14PM
socalman wrote ...
I think our next VP supports private gun ownership!
I think our next VP supports private gun ownership!
More like she is the embodiment of the 2nd ammendment and hunters rights.
She understands what a gun is for and can be used for also, this women is a real person that did not grow up in a family that was political, but in one that has their feet firmly planted on the ground, and she is not afraid to talk about her blemishes and warts.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Sep 05 2008, 08:28PM
Here Here!!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Sep 05 2008, 08:45PM
she has warts??
It's all over between us Sarah, sorry.
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Fri Sep 05 2008, 10:44PM
BG try a paint ball gun, using bright colors, then maybe you will be able to see what you hit before firing the second shot. they really smart at close range an its kind of difficult for the guy or gal to deny that it was them when they are covered with paint. personally I prefer my old friend Colt, he always close, an has never lets me down. BSF
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Sep 16 2008, 11:03AM
this was listed under comedy for some reason
shows the awsome responsibility of gun ownership and the need to know what you are doing at all times.
none of these scenes were the fault of the gun
the first was a cop in a school classroom who shot himself in the leg. He was O.K. and even continued his teaching while waiting for medics.
there are some funny videos on the site. this isn't one of them
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Sep 16 2008, 12:55PM
Yea, about the cop in the begining, he is a piece of work. I've seen the whole vid of that incident and he keep say he was the only one qulified to shoot a "Glock 40", then he shoots his foot.
I think the gun was teaching him a lesson.
Re: Gun ownership
honeymÖÖner, Mon Sep 22 2008, 08:32AM
I don't think guns are an important enough issue to vote for a president, just to be able to have a gun! What are the other issues that, he/she is trying to pass?? Drilling for oil, when we have other better ways??? What are their beliefs on abortion, medical issues, saving the planet, etc. Guns??? Do we really need to make someone a President, just so you can go shoot a gun???
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Sep 22 2008, 09:49AM
honeymÖÖner wrote ...
I don't think guns are an important enough issue to vote for a president, just to be able to have a gun! What are the other issues that, he/she is trying to pass?? Drilling for oil, when we have other better ways??? What are their beliefs on abortion, medical issues, saving the planet, etc. Guns??? Do we really need to make someone a President, just so you can go shoot a gun???
I don't think guns are an important enough issue to vote for a president, just to be able to have a gun! What are the other issues that, he/she is trying to pass?? Drilling for oil, when we have other better ways??? What are their beliefs on abortion, medical issues, saving the planet, etc. Guns??? Do we really need to make someone a President, just so you can go shoot a gun???
It's not really about "can we shoot a gun" or not. It's about our constitutional rights and electing a President that will respect and uphold our constitutional rights.
Would you elect a President that took away your freedoms? Freedoms to make a choice or to speak your mind or to defend yourself?
What kind of President would he/she be if his/her positions were in direct violation of the rights provided to us by the US Constitution?
In my opinion, this would not be a proper Presidential candidate for any time in the US and I would not vote for him/her.
You have to understand, we in America have certain "Inalienable rights" provided to us by our founding fathers. These rights for all citizens are the basis of this great country (from the time my family first migrated here in the late 1700s). These rights are not something that should be changed because a certain President feels it is necessary. They should be protected, unaltered and respected. There is a reason they are there even if some people don't agree with them.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Sep 22 2008, 10:41AM
honeymÖÖner wrote ...
...Drilling for oil, when we have other better ways???
...Drilling for oil, when we have other better ways???
Other better ways? I'm all ears. My truck is empty and if there is an alternative that I can go buy this morning, I'm all over it.
Please respond.
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Mon Sep 22 2008, 10:53AM
I will never buy a vehicle that doesn't run on gasoline.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Sep 22 2008, 11:06AM
honeymÖÖner wrote ...
I don't think guns are an important enough issue to vote for a president, just to be able to have a gun! What are the other issues that, he/she is trying to pass?? Drilling for oil, when we have other better ways??? What are their beliefs on abortion, medical issues, saving the planet, etc. Guns??? Do we really need to make someone a President, just so you can go shoot a gun???
I don't think guns are an important enough issue to vote for a president, just to be able to have a gun! What are the other issues that, he/she is trying to pass?? Drilling for oil, when we have other better ways??? What are their beliefs on abortion, medical issues, saving the planet, etc. Guns??? Do we really need to make someone a President, just so you can go shoot a gun???
Being able to shoot a gun is not a reason to vote for a person to lead our country,
But Keeping the Constitutional rights that MADE this country stronger and FREER then where our founders came from is.
They knew what they put on paper was what was needed for a people to stay free.
If you take away the means to protect yourself and family you open the door to what was, those that have the power (guns) rule.
Guns are not an end all to keeping this country free, our right to vote is what we use to do our battles.
This has been debated from the beginning of our country and will be debated till the end. When you give up your rights one by one you will not be free nor will you be able to speak out about the loss of your freedoms, give up one and they will take another then another all to protect you from yourself.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Sep 22 2008, 11:28AM
Gun rights are not the only reason to vote for a president.
but they may be the only reason we still can vote for a president.
I think a posative stand on the all /any of the constitution shows a lot about a candidate's moral compass which is a necessary part of choosing where to invest your vote.
I haven't been shooting in a couple of years, and don't expect to for some time.
I hope I will never have to fire a weapon again, but it is within easy reach right now If I need to.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Mon Sep 22 2008, 05:20PM
I always say they got the first two ammendments backwards. Without the 2nd, the rest are just a lot of hot air ... ESPECIALLY the 1st, tsk tsk.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Sep 26 2008, 12:24PM
want more on Mr. Obama's stance on gun control, here's a good artical on his actions.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Oct 12 2008, 12:40PM
was sent this and said "humm where would it fit?"
I was going to put it under the political thread but thought no needs some where else, under the video but no not there, so as I ran out of options I thought Oh yea under this one!
Hope you like Boston Legal.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Oct 12 2008, 04:18PM
Nice!!
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Sun Oct 12 2008, 04:34PM
bang!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Oct 12 2008, 05:34PM
very dumb move by Danny.
it's 2 to center mass 1 to the head
saves the taxpayers money. cheaper to bury him then to send to the Dr. then get sued by him.
you gotta love that guy
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Nov 20 2008, 11:35AM
I guess it is time to dust this one off again and post this video I just got
this is information on it.
I can't believe anything could kick like this. I have fired a 45-70 and it was no where near this bad.
hard to believe they would mention it in the same article.
[Click Here]
massive-recoil-rifle.wmvRe: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Nov 20 2008, 12:41PM
I've seen that before and it still is
Good for REALLY BIG GAME.
ps. I just got a new to me python, we need an event!
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Thu Nov 20 2008, 05:43PM
As a side note, my brother who is not a big fan of guns... With Obama going into office he ran out and bought one while he can, altho I can't see him banning them...
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Thu Nov 20 2008, 06:49PM
Benny wrote ...
As a side note, my brother who is not a big fan of guns... With Obama going into office he ran out and bought one while he can, altho I can't see him banning them...
As a side note, my brother who is not a big fan of guns... With Obama going into office he ran out and bought one while he can, altho I can't see him banning them...
I'll take an AK please.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Thu Nov 20 2008, 06:59PM
AKs blow chunks ... literally. I'm leaning strongly toward either a .338 RUM (cheap way out) or a custom .338 Lapua (silly way out).
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Nov 20 2008, 07:21PM
If you're looking for a rifle with stopping power, go spend $125 at Big 5 and get yourself a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R. Cheap to shoot and more than enough power. Ask Jibber?
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Thu Nov 20 2008, 07:38PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
If you're looking for a rifle with stopping power, go spend $125 at Big 5 and get yourself a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R. Cheap to shoot and more than enough power. Ask Jibber?
If you're looking for a rifle with stopping power, go spend $125 at Big 5 and get yourself a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R. Cheap to shoot and more than enough power. Ask Jibber?
Haha yeah, but when Obama really is the anti-Christ, I'll need an automatic weapon with some stopping power.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Nov 20 2008, 08:15PM
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Dec 04 2008, 04:53PM
I had to re-open this for our "older" members, here's a nice easy piece for you to use for protection, and the FDA aproved it.
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Dec 04 2008, 05:31PM
Just priceless!
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Thu Dec 04 2008, 05:47PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
If you're looking for a rifle with stopping power, go spend $125 at Big 5 and get yourself a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R. Cheap to shoot and more than enough power. Ask Jibber?
If you're looking for a rifle with stopping power, go spend $125 at Big 5 and get yourself a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R. Cheap to shoot and more than enough power. Ask Jibber?
Just $125???
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Thu Dec 04 2008, 08:01PM
Santa Paws wrote ...
Just priceless!
Dang! I want to skip all this crappy middle age stuff and just be her! Shes freekin' awsome!
Just priceless!
Dang! I want to skip all this crappy middle age stuff and just be her! Shes freekin' awsome!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Dec 04 2008, 08:18PM
with the new liberal Government it is more important then ever that you make your voices heard to your representatives loud and clear.
I heard one proposal that they are pushing is an ammo tax of as much as 800%.
they are after the pistols first.
I wouldn't be saying anything online on any guns you may have, just your rights to have them.
It won't be just guns but attacks on anything, and everything
I know everyone is busy, and concerned about other things but we have to do all we can. The other side is.
I think we can still save this country if we start defending all rights. Not just the ones you are deeply concerned with.
a couple of emails I have received recently
Remember how Obama said that he wasn't going to take your guns?
Well, it seems that his minions and allies in the anti-gun world have no problem with taking your ammo!
The bill that is being pushed in 18 states (including Illinois and Indiana) requires all ammunition to be encoded by the manufacture a data base of all ammunition sales. They will know how much you buy and what calibers. Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009 unless the ammunition is coded.
Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by July 1, 2011. (Including hand loaded ammo.) They will also charge a .05 cent tax on every round so every box of ammo you buy will go up at least $2.50 or more!
If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take your gun!
This legislation is currently pending in 18 states:
Alabama , Arizona , California , Connecticut , Hawaii , Illinois , Indiana , Kentucky , Maryland , Mississippi , Missouri , New Jersey , New York , Pennsylvania , Rhode Island , South Carolina , Tennessee , and Washington .
To find more about the anti-gun group that is sponsoring this legislation and the specific legislation for each state, go to:
[Click Here]
And of course, criminals will abide by this law too.
and
Subject: SHERIFF WANTS HOLDERS OF CONCEALED WEAPON PERMITS TO REMAIN PRIVATE - (INFO IN MESSAGE)
Kudos to Mr. Gilbertson - Would be nice to send the gentleman an e-mail. Address below. For those of you not from Colorado, we have a Jackson County here as well. I now know of 3 good Sheriffs in the US.... I'm sure there are others....
(OREGON) SHERIFF WANTS HOLDERS OF CONCEALED WEAPON PERMITS TO REMAIN PRIVATE
By Sheriff Gil Gilbertson
November 29, 2008
NewsWithViews.com
This Sheriff strongly believes in the Constitution and specifically the Second Amendment the right to bear arms. I must also stress the importance to those who choose to use weapons they do so in a responsible and safe manner.
Many of you may, or may not, have heard of a state-wide effort to disclose the names, addresses and other identifying information of licensed concealed handgun holders, which includes you.
This issue first arose in Jackson County when a Medford newspaper (Mail Tribune) requested a list of all concealed handgun license holders, in 2007. Jackson County Sheriff Michael Winters refused the request, citing a statute about the compromise of personal "security measures."
The Court ordered Jackson County Sheriff to provide the list of information about Jackson County CHL holders to the local newspaper. The Court stated there was no evidence that people get a CHL as a security measure. The case is currently on appeal to the Oregon Court of Appeals.
In short, the media (and other groups) are demanding that Sheriffs disclose your identity. The question becomes who really needs to know, and why? Is this just the media flexing their muscles? Once this information is exposed, what nefarious consequences can you anticipate? Identity theft is yet another succeeding concern to this needless exposure.
I do not know this to be true in every case, but I believe people seeking out and acquiring concealed handgun licenses do so for their security whether for business, personal, or family safety. In any case, I also assume they do not wish that information to become public. This is only an assumption on my part, which brings us to the purpose of this article.
I believe most, if not all, of you that obtained your CHL (Concealed Handgun License) did so as a security measure, and that you would not want everyone in the State to have your personal information I am asking that you contact the Civil Division of the Josephine County Sheriff Office to advise us on your position in this matter.
Depending on the outcome of the Appellate Court ruling, your personal information could become public.
As your Sheriff, I will do everything within my power to protect your privacy and maintain all rights and privileges secured by the Constitution, and laws. It is therefore important you inform us of your choice as soon as possible.
License holders who want to request protection of their records can respond by mail or stop by and sign our new form indicating your decision.
Recipients of this notice are asked to fill out yes or no responses to the following:
â I want my concealed handgun license information to be kept confidential and to be protected from release to the public.
â I applied for a CHL as a personal safety measure and I want all information about my application or license protected from release to the public.
The Sheriff’s Office welcome’s your questions and comments on this and any other topic of concern. Please contact us by phone at (541) 474-5120, or by email at jocosheriff©co.josephine.or.us
Related Articles:
1. County Asks Concealed Weapon Permit Holders If They Want to Remain Private
2. Sheriff joins effort to keep gun owners' names private
© 2008 Gil Gilbertson - All Rights Reserved
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Dec 06 2008, 07:48AM
sure grandma with a semi is cute but efore you turn her, or yourself loose with a gun consider this
click on image to enlarge
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Dec 06 2008, 07:56AM
this probably should be in it's own thread but if you have the time as twilight presidental pardons begin a letter to George Bush along these lines may make a difference.
If you are not aware of who these guys are do a search on their names. They are the two border patrol guys in prison for shooting a drug importer in the butt.
email to
comments©whitehouse.gov,
Now that your term is ending and you will be offering pardons please consider giving pardons to Compean and Ramos Who do not deserve to be in prison any longer.
Thank you
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Sat Dec 06 2008, 06:20PM
Gun show in ontario on Jan 3 and 4 There will be some good deals on ammo. better stock up while you can
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sat Dec 06 2008, 06:38PM
PUFF wrote ...
Gun show in ontario on Jan 3 and 4 There will be some good deals on ammo. better stock up while you can
Gun show in ontario on Jan 3 and 4 There will be some good deals on ammo. better stock up while you can
hmmm.. Do I really need any "extra ammo"?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Dec 06 2008, 07:31PM
if you have ammo it is not extra, when you have no ammo it is the end.
A few words from the NRA:
**** Alert *** Alert *** Alert ****
Dear Fellow NRA Member,
In the next few days, you'll receive your new NRA membership card.
The moment you receive it, I urge you to validate your new membership card as soon as possible. More than ever, we need you to stand with NRA and fight to save our Second Amendment freedoms.
Because Barack Obama's campaign promise
not to take away our guns is a lie.
He's not even in office, yet he's fired the opening salvos in a war against the future of the Second Amendment, our hunting and shooting traditions, and YOU.
Obama's FIRST attack on YOU: Appointing Illinois Congressman Rahm Emanuel to be White House Chief of Staff. In Congress, Emanuel earned an "F" rating from NRA, and while working in the Clinton Administration, he was known as the "point man on gun control." He is an avowed enemy of the Second Amendment and will wield enormous power in the battle for the future of our firearm freedoms.
Obama's SECOND attack on YOU: If Hillary Clinton is confirmed as Secretary of State, she'll rip the Second Amendment right out of the Bill of Rights. She'll be our nation's top diplomat with the power to determine whether the United Nations will pass, and Obama will sign, a global gun ban treaty that will surrender our Second Amendment rights and our national sovereignty.
Obama's THIRD attack on YOU: Nominating ex-Senator and former Majority Leader Tom Daschle-an avowed enemy of NRA-to be Secretary of Health and Human Services. NRA was responsible for defeating Daschle when he ran in South Dakota for re-election to the Senate. If Daschle is confirmed, he could hold the ultimate power to declare guns a "public health menace" and regulate away our essential liberties.
Obama's FOURTH attack on YOU: Nominating Eric Holder to be Attorney General. As former Assistant Attorney General, Holder was a key architect and vocal advocate for the Clinton era's sweeping gun ban agenda. He supported national handgun licensing, mandatory trigger locks, and ending gun shows as we know them.
Just recently, Holder opposed the District of Columbia's Heller decision that declared the Second Amendment an individual right. Holder also called for reviving the Clinton gun bans and, as Attorney General, would fight in court to prevent the landmark Heller decision from being made applicable to state and local governments.
Worst of all, if Holder is confirmed as the nation's top law-enforcement officer, he would control BATFE and wield enormous power to harass gun owners and sue America's arms makers out of existence.
Obama's FIFTH attack on YOU: In the job application for the Obama Administration, he made it clear that gun owners are second-class citizens and told 80 million gun owners not to even bother applying for a job. In the "White House Personnel Data Questionnaire" he asked:
"Do you or any members of your immediate family own a gun? If so, provide
complete ownership and registration information. Has the registration ever
lapsed? Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has
been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage."
This chilling notice to gun owners-that they are not welcome to serve in his Administration-shows the deep hostility for Americans' Second Amendment Freedoms that Obama and his Administration have in their hearts.
On its face, that question endorses gun registration-a mandate in only five states in our nation-and buys into the anti-gun premise that firearms are inherently dangerous and gun owners are prone to misusing them.
That's an outrageous mindset, especially for the President-elect whose sworn duty will be to uphold the U.S. Constitution, including our right to keep and bear arms.
Obama CLEARLY wants to make gun registration the law of the land.
First for employees under his control...AND THEN FOR YOU.
Working with a Congress dominated by gun haters like Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, John Conyers, Henry Waxman, and Charles Schumer!!!
Rubbing salt in gun owner wounds is the Brady Campaign, which just issued a completely bogus poll claiming that two-thirds of the Americans-including 60% of all gun owners-favor gun registration, licensing of firearm owners, and other sweeping restrictions on our firearm freedoms!
Add it all up and you have the potential
for a Second Amendment disaster that's unlike
any other NRA members have ever battled.
That's why we need the strongest possible commitment from EVERY NRA member, starting today. That's why I'm hoping you'll validate your new NRA membership card the moment you receive it.
Because our greatest strength is you.
Only by working with you can NRA hold the line against these threats from every quarter. We are the one force that has the strength to keep Americans free and our rights intact for future generations. With you at our side, we will fight and we will prevail against all odds.
Thank you for your loyalty to NRA and the cause of Freedom.
Forward this E-Mail to Friends
and Urge Them to Join NRA Today!
-------------------------- --------
National Rifle Association * 11250 Waples Mill Road * Fairfax, VA 22030
If you would like to remove yourself from this list, please click here and you will be removed immediately. Thank you.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Sun Dec 07 2008, 06:06PM
Shot off a couple hundred rounds today and got three new guns dialed in. now i need to stock up on new ammo.
Re: Gun ownership
Shiraz, Mon Dec 08 2008, 11:33AM
Short and simply put, this is "Obamunism."
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Mon Dec 08 2008, 02:55PM
PUFF wrote ...
Shot off a couple hundred rounds today and got three new guns dialed in. now i need to stock up on new ammo.
Shot off a couple hundred rounds today and got three new guns dialed in. now i need to stock up on new ammo.
Dumb question, but just what is the shelf life for ammo?
Say a box of 22LR cartridges? And just what should I
do with them if they are by consensus 'too old' to be safely
fired?
Re: Gun ownership
melvin, Mon Dec 08 2008, 03:37PM
i suggest you throw them in a fire and if they go off they were good
Re: Gun ownership
Shiraz, Mon Dec 08 2008, 03:48PM
L18FlySleigh wrote ...
Dumb question, but just what is the shelf life for ammo?
Say a box of 22LR cartridges? And just what should I
do with them if they are by consensus 'too old' to be safely
fired?
Dumb question, but just what is the shelf life for ammo?
Say a box of 22LR cartridges? And just what should I
do with them if they are by consensus 'too old' to be safely
fired?
You can fire off old rounds. I've fired .22 rounds from the 70's without any problem.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Dec 08 2008, 04:30PM
as long as it has not gotten soaked with water or oil, it will still be good.
All it will do if either has happened is go pop not bang.
And if it goes pop don't fire the gun again till you check that the barrel is not blocked, This has happened and was not a pretty sight.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Dec 08 2008, 04:37PM
Get what you can now. They are going to make them produce ammo that will have a shelf life.
Get quality ammo and it should keep a long time if you keep it and dry.
Be sure you read the articles from a few days on some of the things they are trying to do to interfer with your rights.
Be sure you send comments to senators, representatives, and the president on all the things that come up for vote that you disagre with.
It is more important now then ever before.
Not all threats will come from the government.
Also if you can afford it join the NRA to add yourself to their numbers.
Much easier to keep our freedom with letters then to try and take them back later on.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Tue Dec 09 2008, 12:41PM
I would like to reiterate Bills grandsons point and please join the NRA. Also, we are going to have our annual Friends of the NRA banquet this June at the Convention Center. More details as we get closer. Please think about helping out by becoming a committee member. We really could use the help.
Also, if any of you are interested in obtaining an AR-15, better do it now before Obama bans them. You can buy pieces of them, starting with the lower receiver (which is the part that gets registered) and buying the other parts as you can afford. The lowers have already doubled in price since Obama won.
Remember, the 2nd Amendment guarantees all of the rest.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Dec 09 2008, 12:57PM
That would be neat. What do they go for now?
and is that in 223 cal?
And is their an option on selector switches? Would like to bury an extra one in case it ever needed to be replaced for some reason.
I noticed an add yesterday for an AR-15 paint ball gun. Looked tike the real thing even to the color. Sad to think my thought was someone getting shot by accident for carrying one.
I have my grandfathers wallet, and keychain with his lifetime membership to NRA stamped on it. When I can afford it I will buy that before I get my automobile club card back.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Wed Dec 10 2008, 01:18PM
You can get in 223 or 308. The Lower receivers are from 165-400 Dollars. The rest of the rifle would vary from about 600 to 2000, depending on the "flavor" you want. As far as the selector switches, there are all kinds of options. Do a search.
I just bought another lower yesterday, they are going fast.
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Wed Dec 10 2008, 03:11PM
Thanks for the info -- the shells I have are from the late 70's but have been stored well, so I guess we'll give them a try.
I too have concerns about the second amendment since the election and expect to do some shopping soon (need to figure out exactly what to get while you can still get 'em).
And I will be signing up with NRA too.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Thu Dec 11 2008, 09:39AM
For those of you who will be signing up with the NRA: Please consider attending the Friends of the NRA event in June, details to follow...
Last June we gave door prizes away to about 1/2 of the people in attendance. They ranged from pizzas to jewelry certificates to day passes to Snow Summit. Besides, it is all for a great cause...to help organizations that promote youth shooting sports and safety. Hope to see you there in June!!!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Mon Dec 15 2008, 01:08PM
Yes!
Current collection:
- Bushmaster AR-15, .223 cal
- M-1 Carbine, .30 cal
- Mossberg 9200, 12 guage semi-auto shotgun
- SKS, Chinese, 7.62X39 cal
- Ruger 10-22, .22 LR cal. rifle customized, quantity 2
- Glock 30, .45 cal compact semi-auto handgun
- S&W Sigma, 9 mm. cal. full size semi-auto handgun
- Walther PPKS, .380 cal compact semi-auto handgun
- S&W revolver, .38 S&W cal.
Still looking for a long range rifle in 7.62X54 (.308) caliber and a couple .22 LR handgunds to complete my collection.
The Mrs. and I miss having CCW's; one of the trade offs of moving back to the People's Republic of California.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Dec 16 2008, 06:17AM
Texas state representative, Suzanna Gratia-Hupp, whose parents were killed by an insane gunman while her gun was out in the car, gives very moving and bold testimony about the REAL reason that the second amendment was designed to protect our God-given right to keep and bear arms
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Dec 16 2008, 06:45AM
In case you may not remember this incident here is a story on it.
There was another incident a couple of years later where employes were herded into a walk in at another restaurant and excecuted Soon after this incident Texas passed a concealed weapon law , and violent crime in San Antonio dropped by 70 percent over the next five years
It was widly said that had a couple of people been armed at the Luby's this guy wouldn't have had 15 minutes to shoot so many innocent people.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Dec 16 2008, 06:53AM
Some people may think RubiCrawlerLJ's collection is excessive.
When I was growing up our family must have had at least 30. Many collected over the years, starting with my grandfather.
None of these were ever used in a crime, or even fired at anyone (except for one incident that I have heard of where my grandfather may have fired from his doorway. but were necessary a few times for self protection and killed a lot of deer to feed our family.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Tue Dec 16 2008, 08:27AM
An uncle came from a farming family in PA. When I was about 5, I remember visiting the old farmhouse. The basement covered the entire area of the old house. The rafters in the basement were literally filled with all kinds of long guns, collected over generations. Everyone in that family was a crack shot. That uncle was one of the last to be extracted from Corregidor in WWII during the invasion.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Dec 17 2008, 07:34AM
If you guys/gals would care to compare the crime statistics from states and municipalities that trust their citizenry to carry concealed weapons versus those that ban firearms or severely restrict their ownership, you will note a direct correlation between their crime rates.
Also, have you ever noticed that states such as Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc. never make the news for drive-by shooting episodes?
Can you say that "an armed society is a polite society"
Question:
Why was getting drunk, choosing to drive your car while impaired and driving said car into a bus bench full of people only vehicle manslaughter yet, getting drunk, driving up to the same bus bench and shooting at the same people called murder?
Isn't the end result the same?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Dec 28 2008, 02:28PM
Continuing the fight for freedom accross the USA.
[Click Here]
Local view: Firearms prohibitionists take their meddling to people’s living rooms
A week before Minnesota’s firearm deer season I visited my 86-year-old father. He regaled me with an entertaining stream of tales from his 70 years as a deer hunter in the north woods. He lamented his failing eyesight and then rose from his ancient recliner and went to the closet where he keeps his guns. He took out a battered old case and handed it me. “I want you to have this.”
By: Russ Stewart , Duluth News Tribune
A week before Minnesota’s firearm deer season I visited my 86-year-old father. He regaled me with an entertaining stream of tales from his 70 years as a deer hunter in the north woods. He lamented his failing eyesight and then rose from his ancient recliner and went to the closet where he keeps his guns. He took out a battered old case and handed it me. “I want you to have this.”
I knew what was inside. A Savage model 219 single-shot 30-30 rifle. My father bought it in 1944 for $12. It’s well worn after more than 60 years of hard use. It was an honor to be given such an heirloom. Over the past few years my father has passed on most of his modest collection of firearms to his children and grandchildren. It is his way of passing on our family’s heritage.
However, if some people had their way, my father would be a felon the next time he passed on a firearm to a family member. These people complain about a so-called “gun show loophole,” which, if you were to accept the rhetoric of firearm prohibitionists, is responsible for an endless stream of death and carnage.
In truth, attempts to close the “loophole” are really attacks on cherished freedoms that have been quietly enjoyed by millions of Americans since the founding of our nation. With the exception of those unfortunate residents of a few nanny-states, citizens of the U.S. always have been able to gift, buy, sell and trade firearms without the interference of government.
But if people like Duluth’s Joan Peterson, a member of the national board of trustees of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (and the author of the Dec. 9 Local View commentary, “ ‘Gun show loophole,’ still open in Minnesota, must be closed”) are able to enact their legislative agenda, this liberty will be extinguished. The sad part is that if they are successful, crime rates would be unaffected. It is well established that only a tiny fraction of guns used to commit crimes come from gun shows. But that doesn’t stop the prohibitionists from scaring people with exaggerated stories.
Peterson wrote that we need to pass a law to “require unlicensed sellers to perform background checks on buyers at gun shows and other venues.” What she didn’t write was that these “other venues” include my father’s living room. The proposed legislation requires a background check for every private firearm bought, sold or gifted. So when Peterson claimed the proposed law “wouldn’t change anything for law-abiding citizens,” she was simply wrong.
Another thing firearm prohibitionists won’t tell you is that in order for a universal background check system to be effective, every gun would need to be registered with the government.
There are those who would take offense at my use of the term “prohibitionist” to describe members of groups like the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the Northland Million Moms, but actions speak louder than words. While speaking of “reasonable gun laws,” they advocate a program of incremental prohibition of private firearm ownership.
Our nation already has more than 20,000 laws relating to firearms, and 99 percent of them are an affront to liberty. As new laws are introduced in response to Brady Campaign scare tactics, I am reminded of the words of Ben Franklin: “They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security.”
I’ve got news for the prohibitionists of the world. My father won’t give up his freedom to pass on his legacy without government interference — and neither will I, nor will my family, nor my friends. Nor will millions of other freedom-loving citizens. The passage of a new set of gun-control laws would simply create a new class of felons out of formerly law-abiding citizens.
And that may have a set of unintended consequences all its own.
RUSS STEWART of Duluth served two terms on the City Council and is a professor at Lake Superior College.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Feb 11 2009, 11:02PM
In the spirit of the fairness doctrine we feel obligated to air this public service announcement by those who support gun control to prevent them from becoming victims of sensles gun violence.
you can help provide a feeling of safety by posting a sign stating you are a gun free home and supporting the Obama administration in their attempt to ban more guns
thank you
gun.wmv
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 12 2009, 06:27AM
Really not funny, it's true but not funny. It makes a good point, a very good point.
Re: Gun ownership
Lalala, Thu Feb 12 2009, 07:17AM
bkap wrote ...
Texas state representative, Suzanna Gratia-Hupp, whose parents were killed by an insane gunman while her gun was out in the car, gives very moving and bold testimony about the REAL reason that the second amendment was designed to protect our God-given right to keep and bear arms
Texas state representative, Suzanna Gratia-Hupp, whose parents were killed by an insane gunman while her gun was out in the car, gives very moving and bold testimony about the REAL reason that the second amendment was designed to protect our God-given right to keep and bear arms
Good for her. We have the right to Bear Arms,. This is America!
Re: Gun ownership
Lalala, Thu Feb 12 2009, 07:19AM
Lalala wrote ...
Good for her. We have the right to Bear Arms,. This is America!
So sorry she lost her parents like that.
bkap wrote ...
Texas state representative, Suzanna Gratia-Hupp, whose parents were killed by an insane gunman while her gun was out in the car, gives very moving and bold testimony about the REAL reason that the second amendment was designed to protect our God-given right to keep and bear arms
Texas state representative, Suzanna Gratia-Hupp, whose parents were killed by an insane gunman while her gun was out in the car, gives very moving and bold testimony about the REAL reason that the second amendment was designed to protect our God-given right to keep and bear arms
Good for her. We have the right to Bear Arms,. This is America!
So sorry she lost her parents like that.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Feb 15 2009, 08:46AM
D. L. Hugley gose to a gun shop, as seen on CNN.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 19 2009, 06:25AM
Looks like another part of the "change" we were promised is starting. This will be the first shot in our REVOLUTIONARY WAR 2 If you wern't convinced they want to yake us to socialism this should do it. The events in the world are leading the depression with countries with as high as 20 % unemployment begining to react with their governments. Mexico is said to be on the verge of collapse. and millions more will want out.
Our time is coming and they want us disarmed before the revolution starts here.
Send me one of them tinfoil hats I am starting to believe in the FEMA camps
whats next? the mark of the beast?
We all might be forced to make a decison of where the line in the sand will be drawn. If this one is crossed we will be lost.
their are movements in states to seperate from most of the Federal Government. Might be our fall back to force our states to withdraw in unison and start over with the constitution and try it again. God bless us all if that happens
Are you ready for House Bill 'HR 45, The Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009'. It will make it illegal to
own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C.
As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a
valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health
records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and any ownership changes even if a
private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill
and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief
of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Will we the citizenry be as lucky this time?
Remember; laws only apply to those who obey them. Criminals by definition and nature do not abide by laws. New
laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizen and are not written with the criminal in mind. With guns,
it is not about having laws on the books to prosecute individuals; it is about taking guns away from the people so
that no one has them in the first place. One last item to note, when assuming power and creating a fascist state,
Hitler was a proponent of strong gun laws because a disarmed populace was much easier to control than an armed one.
The kings of old also outlawed weapons of any kind in any region that they conquered to quell the ability of the
citizens to rise against them.
The Founding Fathers of this nation understood all of the above and because of this they included the second
amendment in the constitution. In fact, they knew that at some point in every society's life span that the need for
the population to arise came about. To this end they made the right to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical state
an absolute right that could not be revoked.
They did this because the first thing tyrants and despots do is to remove a population's right to defend themselves
When this is done, the tyrants have no problem with the destruction of society as we know it.
Send this on to all true patriots! Protect your Second Amendment!
The following is a summary of the bill as provided by the Congressional Research Service. If you read the whole
bill, you'll find it will effectively preclude the ownership of ANY firearms by law-abiding people unless licensed by
the Attorney General. How long do you think THAT would take??
Congressional Research Service Summary
1/6/2009-- Introduced.
Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - Amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention
Act to prohibit a person from possessing a firearm unless that person has been issued a firearm license under this Act
or a state system certified under this Act and such license has not been invalidated or revoked.
Prohibits transferring or receiving a qualifying firearm unless the recipient presents a valid firearms
license, the license is verified, and the dealer records a tracking authorization number. Prescribes firearms transfer
reporting and record keeping requirements. Directs the Attorney General to establish and maintain a federal record of
sale system.
Prohibits: (1) transferring a firearm to any person other than a licensee, unless the transfer is processed through a
licensed dealer in accordance with national instant criminal background check system requirements.
(2) keeping a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammunition for the firearm, knowingly or recklessly
disregarding the risk that a child is capable of gaining access.
Establish and maintain a firearm injury information clearinghouse; conduct continuing studies and investigations of
firearm-related deaths and injuries; and collect and maintain current production and sales figures of each licensed
manufacturer. Authorizes the Attorney General to certify state firearm licensing or record of sale systems.
You can follow the sequence as it happened in Canada; Britton; Australia; and California. Yes my friends ask someone
from California about "Oh, we just want to get all the Semi-Automatic type firearms registered for the safety of the
populace!" RIGHT!!! Ask a Californian where his SKS is; or where his AK-47 is; and God forbid they might want to shoot
DCM with an AR-15!!! They are GONE!!!! Once the government found out where all the legal semi-automatic rifles were
they passed a law BANNING them!!!! First the government needs to register the guns so they will know where to find
them; then they will TAKE them!!!!!!!!!!!
Please pass this along: House Bill HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009 will, in my opinion, be the
first of 2 or 3 steps toward confiscation of privately owned firearms.
Even if you do not own a gun or ever would; be very afraid of a government that would remove your freedoms no matter
what that freedom is!! Tell your representatives to vote NO on HR 45 and any bill like it!
If you are not currently a member of the NRA, now would be an excellent time to sign up!
Re: Gun ownership
Lalala, Thu Feb 19 2009, 08:33AM
BG, This is so complex for gun owners. Not good and very Non-American.
"Right to Bear Arms" is the American way and was written for a reason. America's founding Fathers had the right idea.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 19 2009, 08:54AM
about all I can say is to quote Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
I'm sure the first to defend their 2nd amendment will be linked to Timothy McVeigh, and ruby ridge. as Anarchists.
I hope that history will remember them as patriots.
it is all your point of view where terrorist stops and freedom fighter begins.
I hope this madness is stopped before it goes any farther
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 19 2009, 10:30AM
fortunatly this is dead in the water and will not be passed, at least that is the report from the NRA. and a bunch of gun forums.
But that does not mean they will not try again.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Feb 19 2009, 10:45AM
bkap
I hope you are right but
check the date on your research. It was killed last year. This is supposed to be another try with a more cooperative congress
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Feb 19 2009, 10:50AM
yes and it is all over the gun forums, they wanted to slip it in to the stimulass bill but it got yanked.
Re: Gun ownership
DieselDave, Fri Feb 20 2009, 01:02AM
Yes, absolutly, Americans should have the right to own guns. I also feel that gun safety is also very important and training should be mandatory.
Re: Gun ownership
Lalala, Fri Feb 20 2009, 06:57AM
Exactly, DieselDave
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 24 2009, 11:45AM
Assembly Member Steve Knight has introduced this bill with changes t the wording that makes it more friendly to CCW.
the story is here.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 24 2009, 11:54AM
Sounds a little better
carry permits were not hard to get in S.B. county when we had cowboy sherriff's. the new one I know nothing about. I would have had no problem with the last 5 in getting a permit.
they can always inerpret "proof that theperson applying is of good moral character"
anyway they want I would prefer it to say
(1) (A) The sheriff of a county, unless proof that theperson applying is of poor moral character, convicted felon, politician or democrat
but that may be to much to ask
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 24 2009, 11:57AM
ah Bill, that would be good. I will just take the small steps in the right direction for now though.Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Feb 27 2009, 09:03AM
got this in an email thought I would forward it for discussion
7.62 and 9 mm are calibers that have been chosen by many for their pesonal weapons.
Might be a good idea to buy that reloading equiptment you have been considering
could be a very good closet industry in the future
State Department Floating Ammo Import Ban
It looks like those who said the Obama Administration would strike while the iron is hot may have been correct, and the Administration may be doing it in a way that does not require them to even get a vote in Congress. In this morning's edition of the Shooting Wire, Jim Shepherd writes that Canadian officials have it on "good authority" our State Department may be on the verge of cutting off all imports of certain calibers of ammunition.
Ammos listed for this rumored ban include the .50BMG, 7.62x39mm Soviet, 7.62x51mm NATO, .308 Winchester , 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington. Additionally, we're hearing that an expansion of this proposed ban might be broadened to include the 6.8mm SPC, 9mm Parabellum, .40 S&W, and ..45 ACP- among others.
In other words, State Department officials may be floating a trial balloon to see if there are howls of protest, or whimpers of compliance. Canadian elected officials who have directed this information to me say the move seems to be motivated by "emboldened" anti-gun officials who think they have a kindred spirit in President Obama.
Shepherd continues that there may also be a plan to ban exports on certain firearms to Canada from the US, resulting in the State Department hammering gun manufacturers, distributors and exporters in the United States while simultaneously making firearms -and ammunition - ownership and acquisition more difficult for Canadians.
Many in the pro-rights community have said since the election that Obama could circumvent Congress by using regulations in his various cabinet departments to attack gun owners. It appears that it may have already begun.
Posted by VSSA President at 8:01 AM
Re: Gun ownership
STAXX, Sat Feb 28 2009, 08:29PM
This is a pretty prominent gun thread on this board so I'll post my question here:
The local range is closed for the winter. ??
Is there another place for shoothing up here?
Also, anyone know the rules for shooting - just like -in the woods or wilderness?
Where does one need to go to be legal shooting "in the wild" nearby?
Thanks.
PM's are good...I'm bad at tracing post replies.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Sat Feb 28 2009, 10:02PM
mgh wrote ...
This is a pretty prominent gun thread on this board so I'll post my question here:
The local range is closed for the winter. ??
Is there another place for shoothing up here?
Also, anyone know the rules for shooting - just like -in the woods or wilderness?
Where does one need to go to be legal shooting "in the wild" nearby?
Thanks.
PM's are good...I'm bad at tracing post replies.
This is a pretty prominent gun thread on this board so I'll post my question here:
The local range is closed for the winter. ??
Is there another place for shoothing up here?
Also, anyone know the rules for shooting - just like -in the woods or wilderness?
Where does one need to go to be legal shooting "in the wild" nearby?
Thanks.
PM's are good...I'm bad at tracing post replies.
All the Arrastre shooting ranges are open off 2N02. 2 nice ones out ynader... Have yet to cruise out due to all the snow, but it should be cleared up I imagine by now. Who's games for some time next week?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Mar 01 2009, 12:29AM
mgh
If you click the "track thread" box in the upper right corner of the thread you can receive an email when there is a post. That way we all can share the info.
We used to shoot at cactus flats And I would love to shoot the 50 caliber sniper rifle if there were one in the gropu 1500 yards would be possiblee there and it would be awsome. But it must cost at least 10.00 per round.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun Mar 01 2009, 07:23AM
I have written to my state assemblyman and senator urging support for AB 357. I think the bill number is interesting!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Mar 01 2009, 07:53AM
not a bad idea
I have gotten to many symptoms watching TV
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Mar 01 2009, 08:04AM
actualy i confuesd your bill with this one wich I am also in favor with especialy if it gets the colon cleanning commercials off the air
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
STAXX, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:33AM
Damn! You guys rock!
I searched 2N02 on Google
Got to this:
[Click Here]
Plus like 155 CA ranges!
Also found the Track Thread link.
And agreed.
If anyone is shooting a 50cal. I'd love a chance too!
Thanks
mgh
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 02 2009, 03:37AM
You can find people on this site that enjoy about any hobby that you can think of. It is a diverse group with very intelligent people
there are more areas that are actualy open if you have a hunting licens during season for animals.
I have always wondered what the situation was for varmit and predator hunting in areas, and how that could conflict with forest service regulations.
When deer hunting season came around The forest service, and fire stations used to have a map available that showed the closures.
An adventure pass is also required to park in the forest but there is a "free day" every month. Check the FS site for these regulations.
When I was a kid we had a shooting area at the SW corner of Baldwin lake that we used as well as duck hunting in both big bear and baldwin lake. Also bird hunting when bear lake was down (dove)
There are also closures from the sheriffs office
It can become confusing at times.
here is some info on sniper rifles
[Click Here]
not sure if you could stretch the regulations to call it a 50 caliber varmit rifle
there are videos and still shots of the use of these weapons but they are pretty gross so I would prefer you research these if you are interested
they are easy to find but are difficult to watch.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Mar 02 2009, 09:31AM
Thanks for the info. It's a bummer they don't open up hunting for coyotes. The place is way over populated and they're worthless creates. Except to control the rabbit population, and cats, small children etc.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 02 2009, 10:46AM
Just a little info about coyote's
From: Dept. of Agriculture state of Ca.
Damage
Coyotes can cause substantial damage. In rural areas they oftentimes kill sheep, calves, and poultry. In some parts of the state they cause damage to drip irrigation systems by biting holes in the pipe. In other areas they cause considerable damage to watermelons, citrus fruits, and avocados. Aircraft safety is often jeopardized when coyotes take up residence on or near runways. Coyotes have also been known to prey on various endangered/threatened species, including the San Joaquin kit fox and the California least tern. In urban and suburban areas, coyotes commonly take domestic house cats, small dogs, poultry, and other domestic animals. Coyotes have been known to attack humans, and in one case, a three-year-old girl was killed by a coyote in southern California.
Direct Control
Where coyotes continue to be a problem after non-lethal methods have proven unsuccessful or when human health and safety is jeopardized, it is sometimes necessary to kill one or more animals. Coyotes can be shot where legal and appropriate or captured using a variety of restraining devices. Generally speaking, cage traps are not effective in capturing adult coyotes.
Laws and Regulations
Coyotes are not threatened or endangered in California. They are classified as nongame mammals by the Department of Fish and Game and as such can be taken at any time using approved methods. California Department of Fish and Game regulations prohibit the relocation of coyotes without written permission from the Department. For further information on the legal status of coyotes and other wildlife contact your local California Department of Fish and Game Regional Office.
For further information or assistance in solving coyote problems, contact your local agricultural commissioner.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Mar 02 2009, 10:48AM
So I ask, can I shootem?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 02 2009, 10:55AM
YES, but you should have a ca hunting licence, and they must be being a pest, also you don't need to take the carcus.
Just check with the Forest service before you go out for a walk.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Mar 02 2009, 11:20AM
Outstanding. Where would I obtain such a license?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 02 2009, 11:56AM
you need to take a Hunting and safty class to get one. The class is well worth it as the education on gun and personel safty in the woods is excellant (at least were I went).
Class cost $20.00 and licence was $10.00.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:11PM
Haven't checked in a long time, but the season on jackrabbits used to be open year round. That effectively made them equivalent to vermin. When it comes to crop damage, they are absolutely the worst enemy. The coyotes can't keep up with them. I had an acquaintance who raised Whippets and Greyhounds, and he used them for dog food. He'd also let the dogs hunt them, but carefully selected the area for that activity.
I used to hunt them with a bow. That is the ultimate example of 'running with scissors'!!!
Bottom line, jackrabbits are good moving target practice.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:18PM
we used to hunt them from the hoods of cars racing around baldwin lake at night. we used shotguns but I'm not sure if we ever shot one. I did catch one by the ears one night. We figured if the driver turned off the lights we could jump off and get them before they could see in the dark. Didn't figure in that we wouldn't be able to see either.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:22PM
That was quite a feat! I was following one down a smooth desert road and we topped out at 45 mph. While cruising at 45 mph, the jack made a hard right!!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:26PM
we played with headlights to try to get them to freeze but they could sure out corner us. I think I probably just happened to zig when he zagged I wasn't very fleet of foot even then.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 02 2009, 12:33PM
They use to pay .10 a rabbit here in the 40 and 50's when this was all farmland.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Mar 02 2009, 06:06PM
I've got rabbits in my yard. Maybe we should have a "redneck party" at my house and make up some rabbit stew?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 02 2009, 06:39PM
I was always warned about eating wild rabbit because they carried some disease.
I friends dad raised cotten tails for food and never seemed to run out.
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Mon Mar 02 2009, 06:53PM
Cottontails are usually fine after the first frost of fall and through winter. After that they are not recommended for consumption. We will generally shoot several in October (in Utah) at deer camp and roast them over the fire. Taste like chicken!
!bunnyRe: Gun ownership
Oden, Mon Mar 02 2009, 06:56PM
Of course be cautious when hunting either yotes or rabbits, as the tides are changing!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Mar 03 2009, 08:15AM
I got this picture in an email of a mule deer shot on the King ranch in Texas.
If you arn't aware of the King ranch it is the largest "ranch" in the U.S. actually 4 divisons total of 1,300 square miles
Growing up in Big Bear I thought I knew what a deer was untill I had a buck like this run out in front of me on a road in texas at 2:00 AM in a VW at 85 MPH
King Ranch Deer
Think you might pull the trigger on this one?????????
That's a Deer that could give you a Heart Attack!
This deer came off the King Ranch.
A wes ome Deer..... is one of the biggest we have ever seen.
Inside spread: 34 inches
Beams: 32 inches each
G1: 10 inches ea
G2: 14 in. ea
G3: 15 in. ea
G4: 11 in. ea
Mass: 45 inches
Droptine: 7 inches
We have him grossing around 243 and netting 224 typical. The deer field
dressed 228lbs!!!!! One of the biggest we have ever seen.
Justin Field
King Ranch Wildlife
Biologist
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Mar 03 2009, 10:36AM
bkap wrote ...
you need to take a Hunting and safty class to get one. The class is well worth it as the education on gun and personel safty in the woods is excellant (at least were I went).
Class cost $20.00 and licence was $10.00.
you need to take a Hunting and safty class to get one. The class is well worth it as the education on gun and personel safty in the woods is excellant (at least were I went).
Class cost $20.00 and licence was $10.00.
No worries, I'll just go shoot them now that I know I can. thanks!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Mar 03 2009, 01:54PM
Benny, thats just it, you need the licence to shoot them and can only get it after you take a class.
So what I'm saying is No licence, No shoot. or the Mr. Ranger sir will be a talking to ya.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Tue Mar 03 2009, 02:13PM
bills grandson wrote ...
...Growing up in Big Bear I thought I knew what a deer was untill I had a buck like this run out in front of me on a road in texas at 2:00 AM in a VW at 85 MPH...
...Growing up in Big Bear I thought I knew what a deer was untill I had a buck like this run out in front of me on a road in texas at 2:00 AM in a VW at 85 MPH...
I remember this one time at band camp...
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Mar 03 2009, 03:40PM
bkap wrote ...
Benny, thats just it, you need the licence to shoot them and can only get it after you take a class.
So what I'm saying is No licence, No shoot. or the Mr. Ranger sir will be a talking to ya.
Benny, thats just it, you need the licence to shoot them and can only get it after you take a class.
So what I'm saying is No licence, No shoot. or the Mr. Ranger sir will be a talking to ya.
No worries, I took the class and have a license. BANG! BANG BANG BANG!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Mar 03 2009, 05:35PM
Very cool, would love to go. take a 22 for sm game or you will just have a bunch of hair flying around.
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Tue Mar 03 2009, 06:19PM
Theres nothing quite like hitting a fluffy bunny or wiley coyote with a 180 grain bullet doing 3,000 fps out of a 300 WSM. Except maybe a .50 cal.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Mar 03 2009, 06:28PM
How could you tell if you hit him or he just ran off? I think a 50 cal would vaporise him and there wouldn't even be a drop of blood left
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Tue Mar 03 2009, 07:16PM
Thats the idea. Not as messy.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 04 2009, 06:37AM
Oden, you need to visit: [Click Here]
You might like it here.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 04 2009, 10:05AM
Oh this is a good one!!!!
[Click Here]
Justice Department to force criminals to register illegal guns
By Scott Ott
Examiner Columnist | 2/26/09 6:06 PM
Scrappleface: News fairly unbalanced. We report. You decipher
In an effort to reduce gun violence nationwide, Attorney General Eric Holder said today that the Obama administration will reinstate the Clinton-era assault weapons ban that expired in 2004, adding new provisions to make it even more effective at saving lives.
Under the revised rules, people who intend to commit crimes with stolen guns, for example, will first need to register those weapons with the federal government.
"Guns don't kill people," said Mr. Holder, "Unregistered, stolen guns kill people. Once we have a list of all of the guns owned by potential criminals, it will be much easier to track down the origin of a weapon that's been used in a robbery or murder."
The Justice Department plans to open illegal gun registration kiosks in pawn shops, urban parking garages and abandoned buildings in high-profile locations to make the registration process "as easy and painless as possible."
In addition to the registration requirement, the definition of 'assault weapon' has been expanded to include not only certain semi-automatic guns with pistol grips, large magazines, silencers or collapsible stocks, but any weapon that can be used to assault another person.
"About 14 percent of murderers use knives," the Attorney General said. "Another five percent kill with blunt objects, and 11 percent with other weapons. The way to stop all of this, of course, is to compile a database at the federal level of all sharp kitchen utensils, hand tools, belts, lengths of rope, hangers, pillows and other potentially-deadly weapons."
President Barack Obama has said he agrees with the Supreme Court's D.C. vs. Heller decision which asserted that the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees an individual right to "keep and bear arms."
"The president is fully behind the Heller decision," said Mr. Holder, "and he also supports common-sense laws to prevent any practical application of that ruling. All we're trying to do now is to eliminate the discriminatory distinction between so-called law-abiding citizens and the rest of us."
Examiner columnist Scott Ott is editor in chief of ScrappleFace.com, the family-friendly news satire site, and anchor of ScrappleFace Network News (SNN), seen on YouTube.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Mar 04 2009, 11:03AM
They should have the registration in front of banks.
kind of a one stop shop deal
this has got to be a joke. nobody, even in the federal government could be this stupid
oh I forgot the hippies are in charge now, maybe they should put daisy's in the gun barrels to promote love
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Wed Mar 04 2009, 11:14AM
I can think of a better place for the feds to put their "plan" and their dasies. Does that make me a criminal?
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Mar 04 2009, 11:43AM
bills grandson wrote ...
They should have the registration in front of banks.
kind of a one stop shop deal
this has got to be a joke. nobody, even in the federal government could be this stupid
oh I forgot the hippies are in charge now, maybe they should put daisy's in the gun barrels to promote love
They should have the registration in front of banks.
kind of a one stop shop deal
this has got to be a joke. nobody, even in the federal government could be this stupid
oh I forgot the hippies are in charge now, maybe they should put daisy's in the gun barrels to promote love
bkap wrote ...
Examiner columnist Scott Ott is editor in chief of ScrappleFace.com, the family-friendly news satire site, and anchor of ScrappleFace Network News (SNN), seen on YouTube.
Examiner columnist Scott Ott is editor in chief of ScrappleFace.com, the family-friendly news satire site, and anchor of ScrappleFace Network News (SNN), seen on YouTube.
Yes, it's a joke, just like it says right there...
DOH!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 04 2009, 12:20PM
some people really believe what they read!
If we can't have a laugh now and then we will flood the world from crying!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Mar 04 2009, 01:02PM
hope your not speaking of moi
since I said it must be a joke.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 04 2009, 04:13PM
bg, nope not you
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Wed Mar 04 2009, 05:37PM
Whatever.
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Wed Mar 04 2009, 08:58PM
I got my grandson his first Red Ryder BB gun for Christmas! He's already an awsome shot!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Wed Mar 04 2009, 09:18PM
Thats cool. You have obviously seen "A Christmas Story". Safety First! Start shopping now for a nice .22, Christmas is just around the corner again!
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Wed Mar 04 2009, 09:25PM
Oden, we have more guns than Mike Tysons has ears!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Wed Mar 04 2009, 09:38PM
Good for you! One more never hurts right? I always tell my wife that the next gun will be my last one, and so on, and so on. Gotta get a bigger safe now!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Mar 04 2009, 10:53PM
ShamrocKK
my mom never let me have a BB gun she was afraid I'd put my eye out.
Istarted with an over and under 4/10 & 22
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Mar 05 2009, 06:18AM
Oden, not pickin' on you either.
Need weather to warm up for the 3rd annual(I think it is the 3rd) greet and shoot.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Mar 05 2009, 10:28PM
At the bottom there are some links to fax your representatives or make a donation to this group. I received this in an email and know little about the group but the threat is real
Subject: Obama Lies To Gun Owners As Holder Reveals Gun Attack Plan
From: "WorldNetDaily"
Thank you for your continued support of WorldNetDaily.com. WND occasionally sends emails like this one to introduce carefully selected advertisers to our loyal readers and valued customers. Below you will find a special message from the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
Thank you again, from the team at WorldNetDaily.com!
Obama Lies To Gun Owners As Holder Reveals Gun Attack Plan
As a presidential candidate, Barack Obama deliberately and repeatedly lied to America's 90 million gun owners across the country when he insisted that he would not try to take away anyone's firearms, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms said today.
CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb, reacting to yesterday's remarks by Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder that the president will seek to reinstate the ban on semi-automatic firearms, said Obama "knew he was lying to the nation because his own website touted his plan to revive the gun ban and make it permanent."
Select Here to Reject Gun Bans and Fax to all 100 Senators and all 435 House Representatives
"We warned America that Obama's 'support' for the Second Amendment was empty rhetoric," he stated, "and now Holder's disclosure has confirmed it. Obama was lying, and now gun rights may be dying."
Several times on the campaign trail, Obama told voters "I'm not going to take your guns away." He said it at rallies in Duryea, Pennsylvania and in Boise, Idaho. He also told a news conference that "Lawful gun owners have nothing to fearÂ…I think people can take me at my word."
"Right now," said Gottlieb, "I wouldn't take Obama's word if he said it rains a lot in Seattle. Apparently, law-abiding gun owners have nothing to fear unless they own sport-utility rifles, semiautomatic shotguns, handguns and any other firearm that Obama and his anti-gun attorney general don't like.
"Thanks to Eric Holder, who has been far more honest than his boss about his anti-gun philosophy, it is now clear that the new president doesn't support the Second Amendment at all," he observed. "American gun owners should remind Democrats in Congress that the Second Amendment means what it says, especially when the president doesn't."
Select Here to Reject Gun Bans and Fax to all 100 Senators and all 435 House Representatives
In order to stop Obama and his fellow Democrat gun-grabberswe need to let the Congress know with thousands of faxes telling them to leave guns alone.
Americans like you who understand what our Founding Fathers envisioned for our nation…and who are willing to fight to defend our Constitution and for what it stands.
So please, help the Citizens Committee and me defeat those who wish to gut and trash the United States Constitution.
Help me flood the U.S. Senate and the House with the sea of FAXES big enough to drown each and every Senator and Representative willing to vote away the Second Amendment.
Please, send your Donation and FAX TODAY!
Select Here to Reject Gun Bans and Fax to all 100 Senators and all 435 House Representatives
Keep calling your Senators today, toll free numbers include 1-877-851-6437 and 1-866-220-0044, or call toll 1-202-225-3121 AND REGISTER YOU'RE OUTRAGE at ongoing efforts to take guns away!
CALL PRESIDENT OBAMA, 202-456-1111 and 202-456-1414 expressing your disdain and ABSOLUTE REJECTION of all GUN BANS.
DO NOT BE SILENCED – MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!
NOTE: We need TENS OF THOUSANDS of faxes and PHONE CALLS and EMAILS delivered to ALL Senators and Representives right away!
For our projects to be successful, we must count on the voluntary financial support from individuals like you who care.
Your contribution of $20 or $25 is urgently needed today.
Your donation for just $10 will help so much. If you can afford to send $50 or $100 or more it would truly be a godsend.
Remember, protecting our freedom is not inexpensive.
But then, it's impossible to put a price tag on freedom.
Select Here NOW Send Your Most Generous Donation
Together, we can preserve the Constitutional rights our Founding Fathers intended our people to have forever.
For more information about CCRKBA go to [Click Here]
Thank you. I know I can count on you.
Sincerely,
Alan Gottlieb
Chairman
Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
If you prefer to donate by check, please mail to:
The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
12500 NE Tenth Place
Dept Code 2147
Bellevue, Washington 98004
P.S. Take the Emergency Gun Survey let us know where you stand.
Did you know that since Barack Obama was elected President 3 people make a donation to an anti-gun group every minute?
That's almost a million and a half contributions aimed at you - and your gun rights every year!
With Obama in the White House and anti-gunners in control of key committees in Congress, the gun grabbers are out for blood.
Select Here NOW I urgently need you to fill out the EMERGENCY GUN RIGHTS SURVEY registered in your name.
We at the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms have launched this new nationwide campaign to rally gun owners and freedom loving Americans behind an effort to protect our constitutional rights.
THIS IS IMPORTANT. EVEN IF YOU DON'T WISH TO ANSWER YOUR SURVEY, OR ARE UNDECIDED ABOUT SOME QUESTIONS,
PLEASE FILL IT OUT TODAY by SELECTING HERE.
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"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged". President Abraham Lincoln
"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism." Karl Marx, 1867, Das Kapital
“A nation can be no stronger abroad than she is at home. Only an America which practices what it preaches about equal rights and social justice will be respected by those whose choice affects our future” - John F. Kennedy (undelivered address, Dallas TX, Nov. 22 1963)
Gen. George S. Patton in the Oscar-winning film bearing his name: "I don't want to get any messages saying that we are holding our position. We're not holding anything. Let (the jihadists) do that. We are advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding onto anything except the enemy. We're going to hold onto him by the nose and we're gonna kick him in the ass. We're going to kick the hell out of him all the time and we're gonna go through him like crap through a goose."
Select Here to Reject Gun Bans and Fax to all 100 Senators and all 435 House Representatives
[Click Here]
Select Here NOW Send Your Most Generous Donation
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Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Mar 06 2009, 06:26AM
good post Bill's grandson.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 09 2009, 07:05AM
in case you were wondering about the black SUV's that follow the president around this video has been making the rounds not sure if any are actualy deployed or not (3,000 rounds per minute)
It would be hard to think of an incident where this would be the right idea onshore, but I guess it is better to have it and not need it. Then to need it and not have it
I wonder what up angle it could fire?
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
stetson creek r, Mon Mar 09 2009, 07:44AM
Yes, Americans should be allowed to own guns, and should be schooled in gun safety.
For those who hate guns, be aware that you are safer because your neighbors own guns. The bad guys never know who owns guns, and who doesn't. He may be breaking into your house, where there is no defense, or he may be breaking into my house, where he will be properly dispatched with hot lead!
However if you feel strongly enough about your views, please post a sign in your yard that says, "This is a gun free home"!
Re: Gun ownership
mtngram, Tue Mar 10 2009, 06:02PM
I am for gun ownership by the non-criminal American.
However; recently I have been thinking that perhaps some type of written test, or mental test should be required. After all, you are required to have a driver's test ever so often. What started me thinking about that is the fact that there is a blind woman in Sugarloaf that owns a gun. Now that IS scary!:D
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Mar 10 2009, 06:25PM
The problem with that is, who decides what the questions are? There are plenty of rules now to take guns away from convicted felons. They have tried to pass limitations against people who suffer from mental problems. Which would prevent many veterans from owning guns because they suffer from PTSD.
I see nothing wrong with everyone having to show they were trained to handle a weapon before they can buy. I would think every svericeman would be qualified by showing their DD214
My mother was in her 80's and had 2 45's I am not sure she knew where they were but it made her feel safer. And I'll bet nobody messes with the woman in sugarloaf.
To guarentee our rights we have to defend everyone's
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Mar 10 2009, 07:49PM
Like BG said, how would anyone be able to say that someone that has no health or mental problems is unqualified to own a gun, unless the have a Felony arrest and conviction. Any written test will only show knowledge, having them take a firearm class is a good idea, this way they could get the training needed to be a safe firearm owner.
But the education should go all the way down to our school kids, not to arm them but so that they would learn the skills to shoot and the saftey procedures when handling a gun. I learned on a .22 rifle when I was 8 or 9 years old.
I think on one of our shooting get togethers we should invite some kids along( with their parents) and show them the fun of shooting at targets and the skill needed to hit the damm things. :p at 50, or 100 yards, some of us have riifles that can reach out to almost 1000 yards and it takes a lot of skill to make a long shot like that. Me no problem..........I gave up on anything past 300 yards.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Mar 10 2009, 08:46PM
bkap
I think that is a great idea if you can find some parents who would allow it. Many think it is better to keep their kids from ever seeing a gun. And naturaly when they do they are curious with no respect for the responsability. I think most kids my age started out with BB guns. probably got shot a couple of times. By the time they graduated to 22's they had made their mistakes. of my age group everyone survived.
I think I was shooting hunting rifles before shooting much of anything else.
The Sportsmans club had gun training and many other functions. Chuck Thomas would supply meat from his Alaskan hunts for a great BBQ every year. they did a lot of good work. I don't even know if they are still up there
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Tue Mar 10 2009, 08:46PM
So when are we going shooting again? Grab a jacket peeps and lets go!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Tue Mar 10 2009, 09:18PM
I agree with both bkap and bg. I wish more parents would get their kids involved. I remember my gun/hunter safety training and shooting dads .22 or shotgun for the first time. What a feeling. Scary at first but many years later its my preferred hobby on the weekends. These days on weekends during the summer, its rare to see kids going to the range to shoot with dad or grandpa. Where are they? Who will carry on what we hold so dear? The kids. Take them out and teach them the right way. When and where is the 3rd annual shoot-a-thon?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 11 2009, 06:22AM
Oden, my daughter gets mad when I don't invite her along, but she is in collage and is always busy so I blame her for not wanting to hang with her old man.
dd, Yes we need Brad to get his semi-anual shoot and meet going. maybe for a Saturday this time?????
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Mar 11 2009, 06:52AM
Soon my friends, very soon. I even have a few new toys for us to play with (a black powder rifle and a "cap-n-ball" pistol, more 22s and a new CANNON). Gotta find some supplies for those here soon.
We'll be out there soon. The first event was on April 1st (but the weather was GREAT then). We'll do it soon and my family may even show up for this one.
Re: Gun ownership
OldJoe, Sun Mar 15 2009, 06:12AM
Via search I don't see that anyone mentioned
AB 357. will change the California law to compel Sheriff's departments to issue concealed carry permits as long as the person applying meets all legal requirements.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 15 2009, 08:36AM
welcome Oldjoe, That was discussed in another post and we are all for it, as a matter of fact the gun shop I go to has a petition there for all to sign to show support for it.
Re: Gun ownership
cricket, Sun Mar 15 2009, 10:06AM
To answer a question, a lot of the younger set already (sadly so) knows how to shoot and are pretty good at meeting target.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 16 2009, 09:45PM
more info on the 2009 gun ban.
Snopes has nothing of yet but there is a site that says it has the legislation.
Please review the posts at the link below. If accurate, this is very troubling but not totally unexpected news. I encourage my brotherin in law enforcement (current and former) to share this link with others, and to let your federal representatives and senators plus President Obama know how you feel, especially based on your law enforcement experiences. Letters to the editor are also a good avenue for sharing your views with the public at large. Remember, the previous "assault weapons ban" had more to do with how a firearm looked than its leathality, and the ban hampered even active members of law enforcement from making certain purchases, yet prosecutions under the ban were few and far between. Meanwhile, as our federal leaders may be moving toward further restricting the rights of the lawabiding, Michigan is preparing to release thousands of imprisoned felons back to our streets due to budgetary constraints. And since felons are already prohibited from owning or possessing firearms, any new bans are redundant for them
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Mar 17 2009, 08:02AM
Well Americans it has started and I do hope it is what gets those that supported BHO to take their support and come over to our side. I posted in the politics blog about this and we need to act now.
[Click Here]
This is just the first of many ways they are going to try and disarm us. Please write, call, or e-mail your state rep's and tell them how you feel.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 18 2009, 06:44AM
Nuff said
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed Mar 18 2009, 11:15AM
"Ya arm all your passengers." Hey, it works for me!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Mar 18 2009, 11:35AM
and the meathead just get it.
Archie had it about right, might be worth a try. glad I don't fly
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Mar 20 2009, 11:09PM
the only chance we have to stop all the abuse that is going on is to speak up.
If today it is not your particular ox that is being gored, tomorrow it might be. The only chance we have is to support each other and respobd to any abuse you find
From: me
Subject: Re: Feds undercut civilian supply of ammunition. Policy leaves manufacturers without brass for cartridges
Thanks Dave for the speedy message.... one down, how many more?? I think they are getting the message... I love it now that the Dems are fighting amongst themselves.... that helps.... Dave, there are a lot of good folks at [Click Here] in case you didn't know.... we still have Holt's Bill and the importing of ammo.... any more I am missing....
Mel
At 3/18/2009 Wednesday 02:08 AM, you wrote:
Remember Obama said he wouldn't go after our guns? Well ""THAT'S A DAMN LIE"".
[Click Here]
I have been watching this. the last few days. Well there was such an uproar from American gun owners
the DOD has reversed it policy as of 4:30 pm 03-17-2009 but I ask you; why was it done in the first place?
[Click Here]
Dear Loyal Customers,
Thanks to your voice, DOD has rescinded the order to mutilate all spent cases as of 4:30 pm on 3/17/09. We appreciate the time and effort that you expended, together we all made a difference. We will be posting the email we received from DOD as well as any additional information within the next 12-16 hours. Thanks so much and lets get to work!!! Georgia Arms
Yes they think the enemy is guns and ammo. Eliminate the guns and ammo and peace, love, dove. This Marine swore an oath to the US Constitution and I'll die protecting said and Bill of Rights, 2nd Amendment RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS against government tyranny.
They call us Bubba. We Bubbas call it Jefferson & Adam's 2nd Amendment. Our Oath and Duty.
Semper Fi
--
Patriot Act 2
Attach to all the emails you send.
WARNING: Due to Presidential Executive Orders the National Security
Agency (NSA) may have read this email without probable cause, warrant or
notice. And now the government is permitted to listen to you via your own
cell phone even when it is turned off. Under executive Orders to the NSA,
and US District Court rulings for the FBI, either agency may do this
without any judicial or legislative review or oversight.
--Yes 4th Amendment
gone.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 21 2009, 10:02AM
Nice to see that we can stand together and get somethings changed back.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Mar 30 2009, 10:35AM
this came in a kind of a joke email.
has anyone seen anything like this or know what it could be if real?
I have no idea what it is or what it does ...... but I want one
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 30 2009, 10:38AM
WW2 machine gun for anti-tank maybe 30cal.?
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Mar 30 2009, 10:48AM
Ear Ringer!
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Mar 30 2009, 11:17AM
Yes, our military has one mounted on the front of a vehicle...
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Apr 06 2009, 04:21PM
Must Watch the "20/20" special on "If I Only Had a Gun" Friday at 10 p.m. ET
How people are reacting to all the mass shootings that are in the news. Tell your friends and family.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bearjibber [Banned], Mon Apr 06 2009, 05:16PM
The longest thread in SCM history most likely, is about guns. I love Big Bear.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Apr 06 2009, 05:25PM
who didn't see this coming.
I have been expecting that with the economy and all the other pressures there would be more such incidents.
It is a bad time with a sitting president and congress who would like nothing more then a a chance to disarm the citizens.
I understand they arrested a muslim who was going to make an attempt on obama while oversees. He had a press pass but had planned on using a knife. IThey will probably go after the first and second at the same time.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Apr 09 2009, 06:31AM
Not really a fan of Ann's but this is a good article.
[Click Here]
(also posted in politics)
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Apr 09 2009, 10:54AM
Re: Gun ownership
Jen&Shady, Thu Apr 09 2009, 11:03AM
Bmatheny wrote ...
Soon my friends, very soon. I even have a few new toys for us to play with (a black powder rifle and a "cap-n-ball" pistol, more 22s and a new CANNON). Gotta find some supplies for those here soon.
We'll be out there soon. The first event was on April 1st (but the weather was GREAT then). We'll do it soon and my family may even show up for this one.
Soon my friends, very soon. I even have a few new toys for us to play with (a black powder rifle and a "cap-n-ball" pistol, more 22s and a new CANNON). Gotta find some supplies for those here soon.
We'll be out there soon. The first event was on April 1st (but the weather was GREAT then). We'll do it soon and my family may even show up for this one.
Did someone say cannon?
Re: Gun ownership
Frigg, Thu Apr 09 2009, 11:04AM
Yes, I don't see that there is an issue with owning a gun or several if you are a responsible person.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Apr 09 2009, 01:10PM
Jen(Shady) wrote ...
Did someone say cannon?
Did someone say cannon?
Jen, my darlling!!
Big BAAABOOOOM!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Apr 09 2009, 02:01PM
ted_nugent.wmvRe: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Apr 09 2009, 04:11PM
Bills Grandson, +100000000
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu May 14 2009, 06:17PM
had to dust off this thread to post this offer for all of us who can't afford our NRA membership but would like to help the cause
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
KK, Fri May 15 2009, 09:06AM
I love Ted and his views. I have a friend that dated him. Cool guy!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri May 15 2009, 09:39AM
I just picked up a 22 conversion for one of my guns to make shooting cheeper, I'm ready to rock n roll!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri May 15 2009, 09:41AM
but you need to be able increase the noise and kick to get the expierence.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun May 17 2009, 08:08AM
Getting better on the trigger pull is a BIG help BG. also just plane fun!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon May 18 2009, 09:29AM
good stuff
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon May 18 2009, 09:42AM
good one BG!Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed May 20 2009, 01:27PM
ONE STEP FORWARD;
House passes measure expanding gun rights
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Gun rights advocates found an unlikely ally in the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives on Wednesday as lawmakers passed a measure allowing concealed, loaded firearms to be carried in national parks.
The proposal passed 279-147, winning overwhelming Republican support and that of a significant number of more conservative rural and western Democrats.
The Senate voted 67-29 on Tuesday to attach an identical measure to a bill cracking down on credit card fees. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, was among 27 Democrats backing the measure.
Under the measure, any person with a state permit to carry a concealed weapon would be able to bring that weapon into parks and wildlife refuges unless a state law specifies otherwise.
rest of story here; [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 20 2009, 01:37PM
I kept looking for the but.... in there but never saw it.
Does that mean that since I don't have a concealed permit I will be able to take it in unconcealed? It really wont change anything for me because I carry it concealed untill I get out and put it on my belt
but sounds like a good step
Re: Gun ownership
Stringfellow, Wed May 20 2009, 01:40PM
bills grandson wrote ...
I kept looking for the but.... in there but never saw it.
Does that mean that since I don't have a concealed permit I will be able to take it in unconcealed? It really wont change anything for me because I carry it concealed untill I get out and put it on my belt
but sounds like a good step
I kept looking for the but.... in there but never saw it.
Does that mean that since I don't have a concealed permit I will be able to take it in unconcealed? It really wont change anything for me because I carry it concealed untill I get out and put it on my belt
but sounds like a good step
BG, I think it says that it's only legal in the park if it's legal in the rest of the state that the park is in. If you are breaking state law by carrying it concealed without a permit, you would also be breaking the law in the park.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed May 20 2009, 01:45PM
What it means is if you have a valid CCW from your state of residents you can carry a concealed gun in to any FEDERAL park, unless that state has a law against it
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 20 2009, 01:47PM
thats why I was wondering if it were leagle to carry one unconcealed now.
There is no law against carrying it hidden in a case in your car as long as the ammo is in a seperate area like the trunk.
Actualy there is little that you can't do but it is always open to interpretation, and local ordanances are always around to cause a problem.
Putting a rifle in a gun rack, while being the most legal can cause the most ptoblems Too many little minds and grey areas anymore
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 20 2009, 01:52PM
While I would like the safety of a permit it kind of intereferes with the 2nd amenment. And gives them one more piece if paper to hold against you.
it's definetly a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't kind of thing. It was much nicer years ago when the cops knew you, and knew who should, and shouldn't have a gun around.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed May 20 2009, 03:12PM
Why bother, just go for the full concealed weapons permit, take it anywhere.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 20 2009, 03:21PM
I am in Riverside county now. I could have gotten one in San Bernardino but don't know how the new top cop feels about it. And I have never met him.
I also worry about the "red dawn" idea where the first thing that happens when they come for the guns is they see who is registered.
In my mind they don't have any right knowing what you have as long as it isn't machine guns, or hand grenades
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Sat May 23 2009, 11:00PM
Benny: A CCW does not allow you to take a firearm everywhere. BG: Some peoples toys are just bigger an faster then others. BSF
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Jul 05 2009, 09:22AM
Happy birthday America
now take this
Bill to Restrict Ammunition Sales Rescheduled for Next Week
Please Continue Contacting the Senate Public Safety Committee!
As we reported last week, Assembly Bill 962 was scheduled to be considered today by the Senate Public Safety Committee. The bill has been rescheduled and will be considered on Tuesday, July 7.
Sponsored by Assembly Member Kevin De Leon (D-45), AB962 would make it a crime to privately transfer more than 50 rounds of ammunition per month, even between family and friends, unless you are registered as a “handgun ammunition vendor” in the Department of Justice’s database. Ammunition retailers would have to be licensed and store ammunition in such a manner that it would be inaccessible to purchasers. The bill would also require purchasers submit to fingerprinting, which would be kept in dealers' records and subject to inspection by the Department of Justice. Lastly, mail order ammunition sales would be prohibited.
Please continue to contact the members of the Senate Public Safety Committee and respectfully urge them to oppose AB962. Contact information can be found below.
SENATE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE:
State Senator Mark Leno (D-3) – Chair
(916) 651-4003
senator.leno©senate.ca.gov
State Senator John J. Benoit (R-37) - Vice-Chair
(916) 651-4037
State Senator Gilbert Cedillo (D-22)
(916) 651-4022
State Senator Loni Hancock (D-9)
(916) 651-4009
State Senator Robert Huff (R-29)
(916) 651-4029
State Senator Darrell Steinberg (D-6)
(916) 651-4006
State Senator Roderick Wright (D-25)
(916) 651-4025
[Click Here]
Write Your Representative
Write The Media
Get Involved Locally
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Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Jul 05 2009, 10:04AM
No such BS in OreGUN!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Jul 05 2009, 10:10AM
thats a long way to go to buy a brick of 22's
stupid California. We have got to seperate from the Northern half of the state
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Jul 05 2009, 10:14AM
bills grandson wrote ...
thats a long way to go to buy a brick of 22's
stupid California. We have got to seperate from the Northern half of the state
thats a long way to go to buy a brick of 22's
stupid California. We have got to seperate from the Northern half of the state
Not for us OreGUN residents (in three weeks)!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Jul 05 2009, 10:21AM
Don't rub it in.
I hope you don't leave so cal. I can think of a few who would really miss you.
maybe Arizona will take in Southern Californis. Probably not they are smarter then that.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sun Jul 05 2009, 10:53AM
I just happened to look at articles in the Alaska State Constitution. They tweaked their equivalents to the 1st and 2nd ammendments ... so as to leave no lingering doubts!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Jul 05 2009, 11:22AM
bills grandson wrote ...
I hope you don't leave so cal. I can think of a few who would really miss you..
I hope you don't leave so cal. I can think of a few who would really miss you..
Thanks. You have no idea how much that means to me. I'm going to REALLY miss my friends in town - I've been crying about it for a week.
But you'll still have me here (online) to kick around though.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jul 05 2009, 11:30AM
Luna wrote ...
Thanks. You have no idea how much that means to me. I'm going to REALLY miss my friends in town - I've been crying about it for a week.
But you'll still have me here (online) to kick around though.
bills grandson wrote ...
I hope you don't leave so cal. I can think of a few who would really miss you..
I hope you don't leave so cal. I can think of a few who would really miss you..
Thanks. You have no idea how much that means to me. I'm going to REALLY miss my friends in town - I've been crying about it for a week.
But you'll still have me here (online) to kick around though.
Yea but steel toed boots are better then steel toed words.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jul 07 2009, 01:26PM
AB692 a bill that limits you to purchasing 50 rounds a month was just in the Assembly and is now waiting for more members so they can vote, does not look good for us that like to punch holes in paper, or hunt as you need to practise in order to hit what you are aiming at.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jul 07 2009, 01:38PM
Well it passed now on to appropreations for funds, this means that as a law abiding citizen you will no longer be able to buy more then 50 rounds of ammo a month no matter what calibur, no more bulk packs of 22's no cheap ammo it will go way up if this is signed by our governer
Re: Gun ownership
Geezer, Tue Jul 07 2009, 01:40PM
bkap wrote ...
Well it passed now on to appropreations for funds, this means that as a law abiding citizen you will no longer be able to buy more then 50 rounds of ammo a month no matter what calibur, no more bulk packs of 22's no cheap ammo it will go way up if this is signed by our governer
Well it passed now on to appropreations for funds, this means that as a law abiding citizen you will no longer be able to buy more then 50 rounds of ammo a month no matter what calibur, no more bulk packs of 22's no cheap ammo it will go way up if this is signed by our governer
Bkap, can you buy out of state???
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jul 07 2009, 01:46PM
At this time I do not think that was in the bill, so yes you could. ROADTRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
THIS HAS NOT PASSED YET
it just passed the public safety committee
it still has to pass appropriations, then the senate floor, and then not be vetoed by the gov.
If it does not make it out of app. by the 10th it dies there.
Re: Gun ownership
Geezer, Tue Jul 07 2009, 01:58PM
bkap wrote ...
At this time I do not think that was in the bill, so yes you could. ROADTRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
THIS HAS NOT PASSED YET
it just passed the public safety committee
it still has to pass appropriations, then the senate floor, and then not be vetoed by the gov.
If it does not make it out of app. by the 10th it dies there.
At this time I do not think that was in the bill, so yes you could. ROADTRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
THIS HAS NOT PASSED YET
it just passed the public safety committee
it still has to pass appropriations, then the senate floor, and then not be vetoed by the gov.
If it does not make it out of app. by the 10th it dies there.
Well, if it passes, then it's another case of the State hurting small business owners. People will buy their ammo outta California!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Jul 07 2009, 03:19PM
from the NRA
includes a list of those to call or email to voice your opinion
Bill to Restrict Ammunition Sales Takes a Step Forward
Please Contact the Senate Appropriations Committee!
Earlier today, the Senate Public Safety Committee passed Assembly Bill 962. The bill now moves to the Senate Appropriations Committee for consideration. No hearing date has been scheduled.
AB962, sponsored by Assembly Member Kevin De Leon (D-45), would make it a crime to privately transfer more than 50 rounds of ammunition per month, even between family and friends, unless you are registered as a “handgun ammunition vendor” in the Department of Justice’s database. Ammunition retailers would have to be licensed and store ammunition in such a manner that it would be inaccessible to purchasers. The bill would also require purchasers submit to fingerprinting, which would be kept in dealers' records and subject to inspection by the Department of Justice. Lastly, mail order ammunition sales would be prohibited.
Please contact the members of the Senate Appropriations Committee TODAY and respectfully urge them to oppose AB962. Contact information can be found below.
SENATE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE:
State Senator Christine Kehoe (D-39), Chair
(916) 651-4039
State Senator Dave Cox (R-1), Vice-Chair
(916) 651-4001
State Senator Ellen Corbett (D-10)
(916) 651-4010
State Senator Jeff Denham (R-12)
(916) 651-4012
State Senator Mark DeSaulnier (D-7)
(916) 651-4007
State Senator Loni Hancock (D-9)
(916) 651-4009
State Senator Mark Leno (D-3)
(916) 651-4003
senator.leno©senate.ca.gov
State Senator Jenny Oropeza (D-28)
(916) 651-4028
State Senator George Runner (R-17)
(916) 651-4017
State Senator Mimi Walters (R-33)
(916) 651-4033
State Senator Lois Wolk (D-5)
(916) 651-4005
State Senator Mark Wyland (R-38)
(916) 651-4038
State Senator Leland Yee (D-8)
(916) 651-4008
[Click Here]
Write Your Representative
Write The Media
Get Involved Locally
Register To Vote
Contribute
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Jul 31 2009, 11:03PM
just got this and had to bring my favorite threads back again
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Jul 31 2009, 11:13PM
in the woeds of Sean Connery
they pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Aug 06 2009, 12:35PM
Ya this is old and may have been put on here before, but I could listen to this once a day and not get tired of it.
You tell 'em Ted!!
Re: Gun ownership
L18Flyboy, Thu Aug 06 2009, 12:40PM
Unfortunately, with our newly appointed supreme court justice I fear this might soon be a thing of the past.
Time to go shopping...
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Thu Aug 06 2009, 01:51PM
Wow! You go TED!!!!!!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Thu Aug 06 2009, 06:49PM
Ditto on Ted! The next time someone asks me my opinion on the Second Amendment, I will just play this. Simple.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Aug 09 2009, 09:19AM
I guess this would be the best place to post this link to our new destroyer class. A tri hull that will outrun anything on the water. Built for close to the shore fighting. should be a very hard target to hit or even see on radar
[Click Here]
we also have a new bomb proof truck. well maybe not bomb proof but it protect the soldiers inside
mrapincident.ppsRe: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Aug 09 2009, 09:57AM
as for the newest Supreme court appointee, she does not change the make up on the bench, she is just replacing one that voted againest the 2nd A so no change, now as to how she feels about other items that will come up it's all in the air.
She never once said in her confirmation hearing anything concrete so there is no way to nail her down .
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sun Aug 09 2009, 09:58AM
I still can't decide between .338 Lapua and .338 RUM.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Aug 09 2009, 10:32AM
I think this will be my next weapon for home defense
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Aug 09 2009, 11:28AM
BG, thats not leagle in Ca.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Aug 09 2009, 12:34PM
why not?
It dosen't even have a magazine?
plus I don't think I would want to be the guy to tell someone they can't have one
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Aug 09 2009, 12:38PM
bkap wrote ...
BG, thats not leagle in Ca.
BG, thats not leagle in Ca.
Uhh...nothing is legal in California. But I think that one is cool in OreGUN!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Aug 09 2009, 12:42PM
quit rubbing it in Luna
remember 85% of people from Big Bear who go to Oregon come back within 4 years (I made that number up. but it is not far off)
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sun Aug 09 2009, 06:05PM
My aunt and uncle moved to Sequim. When they tried to move back they were told, "Sorry, you left. Go to Phoenix."
Re: Gun ownership
Lumber Jill, Sun Aug 09 2009, 06:14PM
The state bird of OR is the mosquito. and i think they're ATTRACTED to bug spray!
Re: Gun ownership
Gunaria, Mon Aug 10 2009, 10:13PM
bc wrote ...
I still can't decide between .338 Lapua and .338 RUM.
I still can't decide between .338 Lapua and .338 RUM.
Both are very expensive rounds and need a good scope and long distances to see what it can really do.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Aug 12 2009, 06:57AM
So the question is, "why can't they remove him now"
My answer is " He has permission and is not breaking the law"
and his answer with a "reporter that is antagonistic"
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed Aug 12 2009, 10:51AM
Does anyone have a 410 shotgun they would like to sell?????
Please email me with info: rodbunn©yahoo.com
Thanks, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Aug 12 2009, 12:46PM
Obama stacked the audience with his people. There was little protest inside compared to every other town hall.
how can you call it a town hall meeting when you don't allow the town?
I think the guy needed the gun to protect himself from all the news people.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Aug 13 2009, 06:49AM
I know we have talked about this before and many think it was a failed bill from last uear but aparently they are trying to sneak it through again.
we should let our representatives know (as Ted nuggent said)
the 2nd amendment is the only right to own and carry permit we need.
TRUE according to snopes -- snopes.com: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act
YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN HERE!
WELL, HERE IT COMES!!!!
HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009
P lease send this to everybody on your list... this is Obama guncontrol by secrecy.
Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House.
This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.
We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under the radar..
To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.
Basically this "little" piece of legislation would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
.It is registered
.You are fingerprinted
.You supply a current Driver's License
.You supply your Social Security #
.You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
.Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25
- Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.
There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Guns must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.
The Government would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.
If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this..
[Click Here]
It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along.
FAILURE TO DO SO AT YOUR PERIL!
Any hunters in your family - pass this along.
Peter Boyles is on this and having guests. Listen to him on KHOW 630 a.m. in the morning.
He suggests the best way to fight this is to tell all your friends about it and "spring into action".
Also he suggests we all join a pro-gun group like the Colorado Rifle Association, hunting associations, gun clubs JPFO (JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP) and especially the GOA and NRA..
This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it.
YOU MAY NOT OWN OR EVEN LIKE GUNS, but if you LOVE FREEDOM, YOU better get involved NOW!!!
TOMORROW YOU MAY NOT HAVE AN OPTION.
This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.
The Second Amendment ... . America's original homeland security
--------------------------------- ----------------------------------- ------------
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Fri Oct 09 2009, 02:35PM
Does anyone here know about how much I could get for my S&W Model 19 357mag, 4" revolver??? I'm thinking about getting something smaller. I've had the gun about 20 years. Any guess??? thanks, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Oct 09 2009, 03:46PM
do you have the orignal box and all the papers that it came with, that will raise the price about $50. but in good condition with a light turn ring it could go for around $350.-500.
Re: Gun ownership
Gunaria, Fri Oct 09 2009, 06:39PM
If you are still looking for a .410 shotgun, I'll trade you a couple of them for it.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Oct 18 2009, 05:55PM
as law abiding gun owners that I know you are you should have this sign on your safe to protect you from unreasonable search, so please print and post on your safe.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Nov 25 2009, 08:49PM
this should be good for another page or so
in Kentucky the families that play together stay together
family_day_in_kentucky.wmvRe: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Nov 30 2009, 10:47PM
and if that isn't enough
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Nov 30 2009, 11:31PM
That was just beautiful - a gathering of law abiding citizens.
To quote one of the comments:
"It's fun. And considering that the only way into this "club" is to pretty much have a clean criminal record, you're generally having fun with people who you don't have to worry about. I can leave our party tent, and several full coolers, a generator, and other items, all unattended when I go to the range for the day. And they'll all be there when I get back."
Glorious!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed Dec 02 2009, 12:31PM
Thanks, I ended up buying a 20ga Remmington 870 pump for now. It's a great shotgun for the money $299 at Big5.
Later, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed Dec 02 2009, 12:35PM
bkap wrote ...
do you have the orignal box and all the papers that it came with, that will raise the price about $50. but in good condition with a light turn ring it could go for around $350.-500.
do you have the orignal box and all the papers that it came with, that will raise the price about $50. but in good condition with a light turn ring it could go for around $350.-500.
Thanks for the info ! No box or anything else. I would like to trade it for a 22 pistol of the same value if I could find one.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sat Dec 05 2009, 04:07PM
Hope this isn't a repost:
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Dec 05 2009, 05:31PM
A few years ago there was a state trying to get the same type of a program going. Has anyone heard how that went?
I see nothing wrong with everyone having to go through a basic training and having to keep a weapon. within reason of course
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Dec 07 2009, 10:34AM
This following story is a very good reason why we need to protect our 2nd A.
Women shoots and kills intruder, police 911 tape please listen to the whole tape.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Dec 07 2009, 11:45AM
that is very sad but it shows how long it can take to get help there in a dangerous situation.
I got this email today that has a similar outcome. I disagree with it in that I don't like to get these emails but it is bettter then what could have happened
BUTTE, MONTANA
Shotgun preteen vs. Illegal Mexican Home Invaders: Butte, Montana November 5, 2007
Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.
It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.
Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.
Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.
When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.
It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest.
Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and herself......against two murderous, illegal immigrants......and she wins,
She is still alive.
Now that is Gun Control !
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
I like this kind of e-mail. American citizens defending themselves and their homes.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Dec 07 2009, 12:21PM
bkap wrote ...
This following story is a very good reason why we need to protect our 2nd A.
Women shoots and kills intruder, police 911 tape please listen to the whole tape.
[Click Here]
This following story is a very good reason why we need to protect our 2nd A.
Women shoots and kills intruder, police 911 tape please listen to the whole tape.
[Click Here]
Wow, that felt like an hour until "help" arrived. Excellent point Bruce and a sobering, sad tape.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Dec 07 2009, 12:55PM
The saying I hear a lot is " when you have seconds to act the police are minuets away".
And I'm not bashing the police when I repete that, it's a fact that they are not on every corner or everystreet in America, they have a lot to cover in their job and do the best they can, so if law-abiding citizens can help, no problem.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Dec 07 2009, 12:56PM
BG, sad story but good ending, all children in America should be taught to use a firearm in the proper way.
Re: Gun ownership
Stringfellow, Mon Dec 07 2009, 03:34PM
That email's been around a couple years... a little too cute to be true, but a nice anecdote to encourage proper training and use of guns.
///would love to watch a 9-year-old fire a 12-gauge nonetheless
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Dec 07 2009, 04:40PM
Stringfellow wrote ...
That email's been around a couple years... a little too cute to be true, but a nice anecdote to encourage proper training and use of guns.
///would love to watch a 9-year-old fire a 12-gauge nonetheless
That email's been around a couple years... a little too cute to be true, but a nice anecdote to encourage proper training and use of guns.
///would love to watch a 9-year-old fire a 12-gauge nonetheless
False per Snopes.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
MIKE, Mon Dec 07 2009, 05:46PM
Stringfellow wrote ...
That email's been around a couple years... a little too cute to be true, but a nice anecdote to encourage proper training and use of guns.
///would love to watch a 9-year-old fire a 12-gauge nonetheless
That email's been around a couple years... a little too cute to be true, but a nice anecdote to encourage proper training and use of guns.
///would love to watch a 9-year-old fire a 12-gauge nonetheless
I have been shooting guns since I was 7 and my first 12 gauge was at 10 years old. It kicked like hell but I shot a whole box that day. I shot a 10 and 8 gauge shotguns at 14 and that was what you would call kicks like a mule. Too bad that story is fake though, good things regarding kids are almost always fake.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Dec 08 2009, 03:43AM
Stringfellow
I was worried about that too and would not have posted it except with the previous post.
but it has happened, and happens almost daily.
a 12 gauge is not that bad once you have fired it the first time.
I wouldn't suggest it for the first shooting expierence
Saddest thing about the 911 call was if the cops could have been there sooner he would be alive today, but as it turned out she is alive today
you want to talk shotguns?
here is a few punt guns. used by market hunters. devestated the east coast flyways would bring down as many as 50 birds at a time. mounted on boats
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Dec 08 2009, 11:31AM
Ah the Swiss know what to do.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Tue Dec 08 2009, 12:35PM
The following is a great example of proper gun control:
Last week police were called to investigate an attempted armed robbery:
The 71-year-old retired Marine who opened fire on two robbers at a Plantation,FL, Subway shop late Wednesday, killing one and critically wounding the other, is described as John Lovell, a former helicopter pilot for two presidents. He doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, and he works out every day. Mr. Lovell was a man of action Wednesday night.
According to Plantation police, two masked gunmen came into the Subway at 1949 N. Pine Rd. just after 11 p.m. There was a lone diner, Mr. Lovell, who was finishing his meal. After robbing the cashier, the two men attempted to shove Mr. Lovell into a bathroom and rob him as well. They got his money, but then Mr. Lovell pulled his handgun and opened fire. He shot one of the thieves in the head and chest and the other in the head.
When police arrived, they found one of the men in the shop, K-9 Units found the other in the bushes of a nearby business. They also found cash strewn around the front of the sandwich shop according to Detective Robert Rettig of the Plantation Police Department.
Both men were taken to the Broward General Medical Center, where one, Donicio Arrindell, 22, of North Lauderdale died. The other, 21-year-old Frederick Gadson of Fort Lauderdale is in critical but stable condition.
A longtime friend of Lovell was not surprised to hear what happened. The friend said, ''He'd give you the shirt off his back, but he'd be mad as hell if someone tried to take the shirt off his back.''
Mr. Lovell was a pilot in the Marine Corps, flying former Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson..
He later worked as a pilot for Pan Am and Delta Airlines.
He is not expected to be charged authorities said. ''He was in fear for his life,'' Detective Rettig said, "These criminals ought to realize that most men in their 70's have military backgrounds and aren't intimidated by idiots."
Something tells me this old Marine wasn't 'in fear for his life', even though his life was definitely at risk. The only thing he could be charged with is participating in an unfair fight. One 71- year young Marine against two punks. Two head shots and one center body mass shot... Outstanding shooting! This is gun control! That'll teach them not to get between a Marine and his meal.
Florida law allows eligible citizens to carry a concealed weapon.
Don't you just love a story with a happy ending?
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Thu Dec 10 2009, 09:32AM
FYI, they just changed it today (FINALLY):
Target shooting is only allowed in designated sites - Areas with designated sites for target shooting
•Forest Road 1N09 East of Highway 330 - Open
•Forest Road 3N14 North of Highway 38 - Closed due to Butler 2 Fire
•Forest Road 2N02 East of Baldwin Lake Road - Open
•Forest Road 2N93 Lighting Gulch - Closed (Seasonal Winter road closure)
•Forest Road 5S07 North of Highway 74 - Open
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Dec 11 2009, 04:11PM
here is a new M-60 much improved
m-60new.wmvRe: Gun ownership
Oden, Sat Dec 12 2009, 09:26AM
This should be standard issue to everyone who is willing to put one in their gun safe. Where do I get in line?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Dec 12 2009, 09:31AM
Yea one word, WANT.
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sat Dec 12 2009, 09:32AM
bkap wrote ...
Yea one word, WANT.
Yea one word, WANT.
That would look mighty pretty mounted to the front of that new snow blower bkap!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Dec 12 2009, 09:56AM
, but wife read that and said, NO!Nice thought, maybe just on the front of my truck for going up and down the hill?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Dec 12 2009, 10:05AM
does anyone know how many rounds the old ones could fire before swapping barrels?
I am sure it was nothing like this. gunners were told to fire 6-9 round bursts
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Dec 13 2009, 08:12PM
is this sweet? or what?
being stuck with only 5, 3 most times us guys can only envy having 12
how would you like to go up against this guy?
berettashotgun.wmvRe: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Dec 22 2009, 11:42AM
Re: Gun ownership
Stringfellow, Tue Dec 22 2009, 01:11PM
Cool video bkap, that guy went through my yearly wages in ammunition in 3 minutes though. And that's not counting the RPGs
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Dec 22 2009, 02:59PM
How cool is that?? I would stand right next to that guy and fire my own.
I think I might like country music?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Dec 28 2009, 05:55AM
this has got to be the best one yet. I could almost afford to go plinking with this one. To bad this one came after Christmas
would probably work well against them Wascally Wabbits too
and to think it starts with a mere M-16
[Click Here]
am15-1.wmv am15-2.wmvRe: Gun ownership
bc, Mon Dec 28 2009, 07:43AM
Did anybody mention the Governator having signed the new ammo purchase rules? Thumb prints? Are they idiots! Next election I'm voting for Attila the Hun!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Dec 28 2009, 05:06PM
bc wrote ...
Did anybody mention the Governator having signed the new ammo purchase rules? Thumb prints? Are they idiots! Next election I'm voting for Attila the Hun!
Did anybody mention the Governator having signed the new ammo purchase rules? Thumb prints? Are they idiots! Next election I'm voting for Attila the Hun!
Hey, that's neat! And then they also charge you an extra 9.75% "sales tax" or something, right? Right on!
Well, at least they greatly limit the firearms that you can have - so I guess that you needn't buy as much ammo, so it all works out, right?
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Tue Dec 29 2009, 08:45AM
bkap wrote ...
Hahhahahaha. That's awesome!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Dec 29 2009, 02:39PM
Thanks Benny!
But on the real news front here is something ALL Americans need read, this is from the mayor of NY city, you know the Billionaire that wants all guns out of the hands of the little people (US) and only law enforcment or Military to be armed.
Really read this and please remember this is one of the most important rights we have in this country the other most important one is freedom of speech which will be lost as soon as they can take away our guns, and if you don't believe that, well we will hopefully not get/go there.
thanks
[Click Here] Oh yea it is a long read so kick back and have at it.
This is the Plan; [Click Here]
I also suggest you go to the calguns.net site and read in the "2nd Amend. Politics and Laws" section, this is a font of info on everything 2A related. And also a great site on how, what, which one info for guns and laws about them.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Jan 06 2010, 07:38AM
just got this from the NRA
Right-to-Carry Bill Scheduled to be Heard Next Week!
Please Contact the Members of the Assembly Public Safety Committee Today!
Assembly Bill 357 is scheduled to be heard by the Assembly Committee on Public Safety on Tuesday, January 12.
AB357, sponsored by Assembly Member Steve Knight (R-36), would create a “shall issue” concealed handgun permit system in California. Under current law, an applicant must show cause as to why they should be issued a permit to carry a concealed handgun for self-defense. AB357 would remove that stipulation and require sheriffs to issue the license if all other mandated criteria are satisfied.
Please contact the members of the Assembly Committee on Public Safety TODAY and respectfully urge them to support AB357. Contact information can be found below.
Assembly Member Jose Solorio (D-69) - Chair
(916) 319-2069
Assemblymember.solorio©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Curt Hagman (R-60) - Vice Chair
(916) 319-2060
Assemblymember.Hagman©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Warren T. Furutani (D-55)
(916) 319-2055
Assemblymember.Furutani©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Danny D. Gilmore (R-30)
(916) 319-2030
Assemblymember.Gilmore©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Jerry Hill (D-19)
(916) 319-2019
Assemblymember.Hill©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Fiona Ma (D-12)
(916) 319-2012
Assemblymember.Ma©assembly.ca.gov
Assembly Member Nancy Skinner (D-14)
(916) 319-2014
Assemblymember.Skinner©assembly.ca.gov
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Wed Jan 06 2010, 09:38AM
Did email ALL of them, thanks for posting.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jan 06 2010, 10:27AM
Ditto, always for our rights.
Re: Gun ownership
OldJoe, Wed Jan 06 2010, 06:11PM
I drafted my reply off line and pasted it in emails to each member of the committee. I noted the Orange County fiascos on the issue.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Mon Jan 11 2010, 02:47PM
Has anyone gone over to 2N02 (East of Baldwin Lake) to shoot? The forestry web site says that area is OPEN for shooting. I was wondering if it's passable this time of year and how far you have to drive in to get to a good shooting area??? Any help or info is appreciated.
Thanks,
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Mon Jan 11 2010, 02:59PM
Only tricky spot should be 'the puddle'. Or is the shooting area before you get there?
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Jan 11 2010, 04:16PM
That's where I go to shoot, but haven't been back, maybe will take a cruise tomorrow and report back!
Re: Gun ownership
dd, Mon Jan 11 2010, 05:02PM
So when is the next shooting day?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jan 12 2010, 06:34AM
lets set one! we need an outting, (yes MgJ can be therem
)Re: Gun ownership
Mtngoat John⭐, Tue Jan 12 2010, 06:38AM
Somehow I knew her question would result in that answer
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jan 12 2010, 06:47AM
and he's HOOKED! win win win!
A new shooter and wife have joined us.
Welcome aboared Mgj and Pinenut.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Jan 12 2010, 08:02AM
Some ice and mud on the road (2N02 ?)but not very deep. It is very bouncy though. The road down by the Mitsu plant is a little bit shorter and smoother (3N36?) Lets get together and do a friendly shooting event. I'll donate 500 rounds of .22 long towards a 50 and 100 yard competion.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Tue Jan 12 2010, 09:35AM
Just a quick comment on the Mitsu site. I went down there, for the first time, on a few saturdays ago. I was quite shocked to see how much CRAP people bring to shoot at. Computers, tv's, multitudes of glass, empty shells, etc. I really am surprised that the owner (if there is one) allows anyone to shoot there. I, for one, ALWAYS, pick up my stuff that I shoot at (plastic bottles, steel hubcaps, no glass, etc., as well as my shells. Am I the only one bugged by this? You may have well talked about this previously and if so, sorry.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Jan 12 2010, 11:49AM
Mtman, no you're not. lets have a clean-up and shoot there.
Only thing is unfortunately it won't last long but will be nicer.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Tue Jan 12 2010, 12:20PM
cleanup? I think it would take about 3 dump trucks, no?
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Thu Jan 14 2010, 05:29PM
Can I throw clay targets at the place off of the Mitsubishi Plant??? Does anyone know where I can go (I'm talking for free) and throw targets (and hit some of them :-)
It didn't look to me that there was room to throw targets on 2n02 e. of Baldwin???? Anyone know????
Thanks, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Jan 15 2010, 06:04AM
Rod yes, this place is large,
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Jan 15 2010, 11:23AM
My next .22 rifle?
am15-1.wmv am15-2.wmvRe: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Fri Jan 15 2010, 01:15PM
Going to go to the Mitsubishi plant shooting area tomorrow around 1 or 2 pm. Maybe I'll see some of the So Cal people there???
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Jan 15 2010, 04:38PM
not this weekend Rod I'm doing a quick turn around.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Jan 19 2010, 09:35PM
this one is kinda cool wait untill you see the results after you vote
Obama's new Attorney General, Eric Holder, has already said this is one of his major issues.
This takes literally 2 clicks to complete. Please vote on this gun issue question with USA Today. It will only take a few seconds of your time. Then pass the link on to all the pro gun folks you know. Hopefully these results will be published later this month. This upcoming year will become critical for gun owners with the Supreme Court's accepting the District of Columbia case against the right for individuals to bear arms.
Here's what you need to do:
First - vote on this one.
Second - launch it to other folks and have THEM vote - then we will see if the results get published.
The Question is:
"Does the Second Amendment give individuals the right to bear arms?"
Click on the link below and PLEASE vote Yes!
USATODAY.com - Quick Question
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jan 20 2010, 06:04AM
what link?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Jan 20 2010, 09:17AM
try this it didn't come with it for some reasoin sorry
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Wed Jan 20 2010, 09:44AM
97% YES !!!!!
Looks like alot of people are pro 2A
God Bless America
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Jan 20 2010, 10:05AM
makes you kind of wonder where the anti second are and how many there really are
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Jan 20 2010, 11:58AM
Done (YES).
5.4 Million total votes and 97% YES.
What does that say DC and CA. Stop the criminals from owning guns and leave us with some form of protection.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Jan 30 2010, 07:21AM
very good points.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Jan 30 2010, 02:53PM
your personal fire arm is your last line of defense. Often your only one.
A 911 call may catch your killer, but it is of little effect in defending you when seconds, or even minutes count.
And the number of guns in the hands of citizens prevents government from over stepping their bounds. more then they already have.
It is almost a fourth branch of government to have armed citizens
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Jan 30 2010, 02:59PM
Well, Well, Well…..
Gotta love this one. National media kept it under raps.
Only short article in local rag. Hyperlink enclosed.
This happened on AUGUST 24, 2009. Too slow in getting around as far as I'm concerned.
Anti-Gun Senator Shoots Intruder
[Click Here]
Long time Anti-Gun Advocate State Senator R.C. Soles, 74, shot one of two intruders at his home just outside Tabor City, N.C. About 5 p.m. Sunday, the prosecutor for the politician's home county said.
The victim, Kyle Blackburn, was taken to a South Carolina hospital, but the injuries were not reported to be life-threatening, according to Rex Gore, district attorney for Columbus, Bladen and Brunswick counties..
The State Bureau of Investigation and Columbus County Sheriff's Department are investigating the shooting, Gore said. Soles, who was not arrested, declined to discuss the incident Sunday evening.
"I am not in a position to talk to you," Soles said by telephone. "I'm right in the middle of an investigation."
Soles, a top-ranking Democrat and the longest-serving member of the legislature, already was the subject of an SBI investigation over sexual misconduct allegations with former male clients. (FHW - Now, that sounds more like a liberal to me).
The Senator, who has made a career of being against gun ownership for the general public, didn't hesitate to defend himself with his own gun when he believed he was in immediate danger and he was the victim.
In typical hypocritical liberal fashion, the "Do As I Say And Not As I Do" Anti-Gun Activist Lawmaker picked up his gun and took action in what apparently was a self-defense shooting. Why hypocritical you may ask? It is because his long legislative record shows that the actions that he took to protect his family, his own response to a dangerous life threatening situation, are actions that he feels ordinary citizens should not have if they were faced with an identical situation.
It has prompted some to ask if the Senator believes his life and personal safety is more valuable than yours or mine. But, this is to be expected from those who believe they can run our lives, raise our kids, and protect our families better than we can
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sat Jan 30 2010, 09:30PM
Plus, it appears his shooting skills are sorely lacking (only hit one, and the other's wound "not life threatening"). Eh, maybe that's just me.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 09 2010, 06:22AM
[Click Here]
Riverside County Sheriff Supports Repeal of AB962!
Sheriff Stan Sniff has officially come out in support of AB1663.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Tue Feb 09 2010, 07:15AM
Didn't know where to post this picture so I figured the gun nut thread was the place. We went shooting down by the mitsu plant and found almost all of the empty shot gun shells standing on end. At first we thought that some desert tweakers had nothing better to do but there were way to many shells for that to have happened. I figured that after the last storm there were puddles that floated the shells then dried up. Not complaining cause we used them as targets. Don't worry there are plenty left.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 09 2010, 11:05AM
colorfull!
but why did you leave them?
We reall need to do a cleanup here, just getting more people involved would be nice.
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Tue Feb 09 2010, 12:37PM
When the weather turns better I will be in for the cleanup.
Re: Gun ownership
Craig ⭐, Tue Feb 09 2010, 12:41PM
Lets hope that happens soon Oden!
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue Feb 09 2010, 03:38PM
Another homeowner protects his property.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 11 2010, 11:23AM
I thought this would put a smile on some of your faces. It certainly did mine.
Still don't know how they got pics of Bkap's gun safe??
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Feb 11 2010, 11:24AM
more
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Mon Feb 22 2010, 03:24PM
Visitors now can pack heat in any national park, provided they comply with the firearms laws of the park’s home state.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Feb 22 2010, 04:38PM
Ok first it was not my safe! really give me 100.00 and I'll prove it.
really I will.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 23 2010, 02:14PM
Ok this happened this morning around 9am, 100 rounds down range 15 yards, This piece of paper got me mad!
and to top it all off now I got to go clean my gun.
ah Hopps #9 a mans perfume
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Feb 23 2010, 05:12PM
If girls only knew the power oh hoppe's number 9 we wouldn't stand a chance
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Feb 23 2010, 05:42PM
you got that right BG!Re: Gun ownership
bc, Tue Feb 23 2010, 08:06PM
My wife loves the smell of Hoppe's!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Tue Feb 23 2010, 08:37PM
Sweets 7.62 is a real charmer as well. Just don't get it on you.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Tue Mar 02 2010, 10:28AM
'nuff said.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Mar 05 2010, 06:38AM
The good thing is I don't need any of those signs. It seems everyone in my neighborhood is armed.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 06 2010, 05:39PM
got a new dress for my DW CBOB.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Mar 11 2010, 09:02AM
This has got to be the worse offense this idiotic administration has tried to impose on us to date.
Who was it that said they havent tried to grab our guns????
Dear Concerned American,
With willing one-world accomplices in Washington, D.C., gun-grabbers around the globe believe they have it made.
In fact, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton just announced the Obama Administration would be working hand in glove with the UN to pass a new “Small Arms Treaty.”
This is Congressman Paul Broun from Georgia.
I’m writing you to make sure American citizens are prepared to oppose this assault on our national sovereignty and right to keep and bear arms.
Disguised as legislation to help in the fight against “terrorism,” “insurgency” and “international crime syndicates,” the UN’s Small Arms Treaty is nothing more than a massive, GLOBAL gun control scheme.
Ultimately, the UN’s Small Arms Treaty is designed to register, ban and CONFISCATE firearms owned by private citizens like YOU.
The National Association for Gun Rights has a Firearms Sovereignty Survey ready for you to complete, but I want you to understand just how dangerous this global gun ban is. Please bear with me for a moment.
So far, the gun-grabbers have successfully kept the exact wording of their new scheme under wraps.
But looking at previous versions of the UN’s Small Arms Treaty, you and I can get a good idea of what’s likely in the works.
If passed by the UN and ratified by the U.S. Senate, the UN’s Small Arms Treaty would almost certainly FORCE national governments to:
*** Enact tougher licensing requirements, making law-abiding citizens cut through even more bureaucratic red tape just to own a firearm legally;
*** CONFISCATE and DESTROY ALL “unauthorized” civilian firearms (all firearms owned by the government are excluded, of course);
*** BAN the trade, sale and private ownership of ALL semi-automatic weapons;
*** Create an INTERNATIONAL gun registry, setting the stage for full-scale gun CONFISCATION.
I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that this is NOT a fight we can afford to lose.
Ever since its founding almost 65 years ago, the United Nations has been hell-bent on bringing the United States to its knees.
To the petty dictators and one-worlders who control the UN, the U.S. isn’t a “shining city on a hill” -- it’s an affront to their grand totalitarian designs for the globe.
These anti-gun globalists know that so long as Americans remain free to make our own decisions without being bossed around by big government bureaucrats, they’ll NEVER be able to seize the worldwide oppressive power they crave.
And the UN’s apologists also know the most effective way to finally strip you and me of ALL our freedoms would be to DESTROY our gun rights.
That’s why I’ve decided to stand with the National Association for Gun Rights in their opposition to this assault on our Constitution!
The truth is, there’s no time to waste.
You and I have to be prepared for this fight to move FAST.
The fact is, the last thing the gun-grabbers at the UN and in Washington, D.C., want is for you and me to have time to react and mobilize gun owners to defeat this radical legislation.
They’ve made that mistake before, and we’ve made them pay, defeating EVERY attempt to ram the “Treaty on Small Arms” into law since the mid-1990s.
But this time, time won’t be on our side.
In fact, we’re likely to only have a few days or weeks to defeat the treaty.
Worse, there’s no longer a pro-gun Senate to kill ratification of the treaty.
There’s no longer a President in the White House who has stated opposition to the treaty.
And you and I know good and well how Germany, Great Britain, France, Communist China or the rest of the anti-gun members of the United Nations are going to vote.
So our ONE AND ONLY CHANCE of stopping the UN’s Small Arms Treaty is during the ratification process in the U.S. Senate.
As you know, it takes 67 Senate votes to ratify a treaty.
So rounding up 34 votes to kill this thing should be easy, right?
Unfortunately, that couldn’t be further from the truth.
First, you know just as well as I do how few Senators are truly “pro-gun.”
Second, even with the partisan rancor in Washington, D.C., many Senators get “queasy” about killing treaties for fear of “embarrassing” the President -- especially with “international prestige” at stake.
They look at ratifying treaties much like approving Presidents’ Supreme Court nominees.
And remember how many Senators turned their back on us and voted to confirm anti-gun Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor?
A dozen more only voted against Sotomayor after receiving massive grassroots pressure from the folks back home.
So if we’re going to defeat the UN’s Small Arms Treaty we have to turn the heat up on the U.S. Senate now before it’s too late!
Do you believe the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Second Amendment are the supreme law of the land?
Do you believe any attempt by the United Nations to subvert or supersede your Constitutional rights must be opposed?
If you said “Yes” to these questions, please sign the survey the National Association for Gun Rights has prepared for you.
Your survey will put you squarely on the record AGAINST the UN’s Small Arms Treaty.
Along with your signed survey, I hope you’ll send a generous contribution of $250, $100, $50 or $35 to help finance this battle.
With your generous contribution, the National Association for Gun Rights will immediately begin contacting Second Amendment supporters to turn up the heat on targeted U.S. Senators.
Direct mail. Phones. E-mail. Blogs. Billboards. Guest editorials. Press conferences. Hard-hitting newspaper, radio and TV ads. The whole nine yards.
Of course, if NAGR can raise enough resources, their goal is to expand this full program to ALL of their target states.
But that’s not going to be cheap, and we may not have much time.
In fact, if we’re going to defeat the UN’s so-called “Small Arms Treaty,” we have to start NOW!
So please put yourself on record AGAINST the UN’s “Small Arms Treaty” by signing NAGR’s Firearms Sovereignty Survey.
And if you possibly can, please agree to make a contribution of $250, $100, $50 or $35.
Every dollar counts in this fight.
Thank you in advance for contributing you time and money towards defending our Second Amendment rights.
For Freedom,
Dr. Paul Broun, M.D.
U.S. Congressman (R-GA)
P.S. The Obama Administration just announced they would be working hand in glove with the UN to pass a new GLOBAL, “Small Arms Treaty.”
That’s why its vital you and I fight back IMMEDIATELY.
Please return your Firearms Sovereignty Survey and put yourself squarely on the record AGAINST ratification of the UN’s Small Arms Treaty.
And if you can, please make a generous contribution of $250, $100, $50 or $35 right away!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Mar 14 2010, 08:06AM
I wonder how many of us "law abiding" citizens will give up our firearms if the government decides to criminalize their possession?
For some reason, I suspect that there would be a huge rise in home burglaries and the theft of firearms if that should happen.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 14 2010, 08:10AM
I use to have guns but there was a terrible boating accdent.. it was on the news, I'll post a picture later.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Mar 14 2010, 09:15AM
Bruce's dog ate all my guns. I don't have them any longer.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sun Mar 14 2010, 01:33PM
Sometime check out the marketplace 'gun makers' in third world countries. I've always been amazed at what they accomplish with simple tools. A friend once said that as long as he has his basic machine tools, he'll not be disarmed.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Mar 14 2010, 04:26PM
bkap wrote ...
I use to have guns but there was a terrible boating accdent.. it was on the news, I'll post a picture later.
I use to have guns but there was a terrible boating accdent.. it was on the news, I'll post a picture later.
The number of tragic boating accidents is astounding. I even lost a few firearms that I hadn't even purchased yet.
Now THAT is tragic...
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Mar 14 2010, 04:29PM
bkap wrote ...
got a new dress for my DW CBOB.
got a new dress for my DW CBOB.
Looking very, very nice. You had better send it here, it doesn't appear to be on the California Legal List.
Nobody will see it as I can carry concealed here...
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 14 2010, 05:12PM
Here's the news story it was on TV after it happened...... bummer.
I was in NY visiting and well
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 14 2010, 05:29PM
Luna wrote ...
Looking very, very nice. You had better send it here, it doesn't appear to be on the California Legal List.
Nobody will see it as I can carry concealed here...
bkap wrote ...
got a new dress for my DW CBOB.
got a new dress for my DW CBOB.
Looking very, very nice. You had better send it here, it doesn't appear to be on the California Legal List.
Nobody will see it as I can carry concealed here...
Bwhahahaha it is!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Mar 14 2010, 06:58PM
bkap wrote ...
Bwhahahaha it is!
Luna wrote ...
Looking very, very nice. You had better send it here, it doesn't appear to be on the California Legal List.
Nobody will see it as I can carry concealed here...
bkap wrote ...
got a new dress for my DW CBOB.
got a new dress for my DW CBOB.
Looking very, very nice. You had better send it here, it doesn't appear to be on the California Legal List.
Nobody will see it as I can carry concealed here...
Bwhahahaha it is!
Nancy got pissed at Bro'Bama and refused to work on that stinkin' "WealthCare" bill for another weekend, the revised gun list should be online by morning.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Mar 15 2010, 09:41AM
What If Guns Were Treated Like Cars
1. You could get a simple license from the State for a nominal fee and only have to take a test that any idiot could pass. You'd only have to renew it every 10 years for 40 years and maybe retake the test if you move out of state.
2. You could kill and injure people with your gun while drunk and still have your lawyer get your gun back because you need it for work.
3. You'd have half the tax burden of the county and State dedicated to improving the shooting ranges and facilities. The public agrees this is never good enough to suit them and with all the gun owners from California moving in, the range capacity will never catch up. Lines at the range are always shown on TV with the newsies deploring the crowding.
4. You could carry in any State at any time because carry and possession of your
gun is honored nationwide and is considered a basic American civil right.
5. You would see commercials on TV pushing the newest, latest guns which you could lease for just $25 per month subject to the fine print.
6. You could finance a fancier gun than you can really afford by taking a 5 year loan with approved credit.
7. You would have a gun safe built into every house. In the upscale houses you would have 3 gun safes. Inexpensive houses and mobile homes would just have a gun rack by the door.
8. You'd have gun storage lockers at the shopping mall in which to store your rifle while shopping. This in order to free your arms for packages. The convenience of the shopper is paramount.
9. You could buy ammunition at the 7-11. Full-service station means they'll reload your magazines for you.
10. The news would stop reporting gun accidents unless more than 10 children were killed at one time. Onesy-twosey would only be notable in small towns or if Princess Di's bodyguard shot her while aiming at paparazzi.
11. If the price of ammunition rose 20% the Federal Government would release war reserves of ammo to bring the price back down to the consumer's comfort level. Ammo would carry a 50% tax to finance public shooting ranges. Teapot Dome scandal would have been about a lead mine.
12. We'd teach gunsmithing in vocational-education programs.
13. Every 16 year old would be looking forward to the day when he could take the family revolver to school. The rich kids would get a high-capacity semi-auto pistol on their 16th birthday and endanger everyone when they learn to use it in public.
14. High schools would have large gun lockers to store student's arms while they attend classes. Administrators would try to charge for the service to discourage teen-age gun carrying to school.
15. Schools would have shooter's education classes to make sure the kids could pass the test. They would show gory films of gunshot wounds. The squeamish would throw up.
16. Old people who can hardly see would still be permitted to shoot in public because to disarm them would be to damage their self-esteem. Families would wring their hands over holes in the walls and ceiling. Occasionally an oldster would fire into a schoolyard when they mistake the trigger for the safety. Legislators would refrain from criticizing because of the AARP's influence.
17. Congress would be debating alternative weapons systems for people who can't afford their own guns.
18. There would be such a thing as "public weapons" for the masses.
19. Congress would be subsidizing weapons for people too limited in means to afford their own.
20. Congress would be willing to float a loan to Colt's in order to ensure the survival of an American company against unfair foreign competition. (Think "Chrysler")
21. We, except for Ralph Nader, would dismiss 40,000 deaths and 500,000 injuries per year as "the price of freedom."
22. You would have MADS. Mothers Against Drunk Shooters (instead of HCI). MADS would conduct a campaign of public education instead of trying to use the force of government to prohibit irresponsible drinking and shooting.
23. You could rent a gun at any airport if you are over 25 and have a credit card.
24. You would have the fringe-greenies advocating bows and arrows because they think gunsmoke is damaging the environment. Al Gore would write a book about the damaging effects of gunsmoke. Al Gore would also claim to have been a handloader before his sister died in a powder fire.
25. You'd have huge outcry in the Press and Congress over our dependence on cheap, imported, foreign ammunition.
26. Ted Kennedy would have shot Mary Jo Kopekne instead. Ted would be a few thousand dollars richer (bullet:$0.25 vs car:$3000) Ted would stop carrying his own gun and instead, hire bodyguards to carry fully-automatic weapons under their coats for him.
27. You'd have businesses like "Jiffy Gun-Clean" to make life convenient. But you'd always worry that they might not have gotten the magazine fully seated afterwards.
28. You'd have "Classic Gun Events" with parades on public roads as everyone with such a classic carries it for all the public to see.
29. You'd have huge eyesores where piles of guns are left to rust in the open at "Gun Junk Yards". They would charge you outrageous prices to go out back and pick off a hammer or sear which is probably also worn out like the one you want to replace.
30. There would be a booming business and debate about substituting non-OEM parts in the gun repair business.
31. You'd have TV news crews going under cover with hidden cameras to ferret out "unscrupulous gun smiths." This story would be "old reliable" and works every year.
32. The Japanese would be trying, and succeeding at taking over the market for efficient, reliable high-quality guns. The Koreans would be trying to sneak in at the low end of the market. The Germans would be selling premium brands based on better workmanship, longer life, and brand cachet. But their guns would require you to take it to a gunsmith every 3 months for a complete tear-down and dimensional inspection at outrageous labor rates. The Italians would paint their guns flaming red and they would have a reputation for being finicky. The State Department would be applying pressure to get Japan to allow more US-built guns into their country. The Japanese would resist the US by saying that Japanese shooters have extra-special safety requirements that only Japanese manufacturers can meet.
33. You'd have an entire section of the Saturday Coloradoan devoted to ads for new and used guns.
34. You'd have a pair of fun-loving gunsmiths on Public Radio doing a show on gun problems. They'd be named "Tap & Rack"
35. There would have been a terrible TV show back in the black & white days named "My Mother - The Gun" It starred Jerry Van Dyke and ran just one season.
36. Dean Jones would have made a series of stupid movies starring Herbie the Love-Gun. Herbie was an adorable anthropomorphized cheap German Saturday Night Special. Dean Jones would never show his face in public again after these movies.
37. Competition would be carried on TV all day on Saturdays. The Daytona 500 would be round-count instead of miles. There would be speed contests, endurance contests, and off-range marksmanship events. NASGUN would create big heroes in the South and extravagant marketing opportunities.
38. High-schools would paint up a gun in the colors of the opposition and charge $.25 for you to swing a sledge hammer at that gun during pep rallys.
39. John Elway would own half the gunstores in the Denver Metro area.
40. Wellington Webb's wife would be carrying the finest English Double shotgun money can buy while Wellington has body guards to carry his semi-auto pistols for him.
41. Back in the 1970's during the ammo crisis, Congress would have set a maximum cyclic rate for autos and semi autos in order to conserve ammo.
42. After Iraq was pushed out of Kuwait, the national cyclic rate was raised to something all semi-autos can be comfortable with.
43. The Coloradoan would be publishing the locations of range repair work every week to be sure no one would be inconvenienced.
44. The Beachboys would have released some songs about guns: "Spring little Cobray gettin' ready to strike..... Spring little Cobray with all your might....." "She's real fine my Wonder Nine, she's real fine my Won-der Nine." " Fun, fun, fun 'til Daddy takes her Kel-Tec away......"
45. Letters to editors would be written decrying that all those Soccer Moms are lugging .50 cal machine guns around town, wasting ammo and getting in everybody's way.
46. Letters to editors would be written responding that putting one's beginning driver son or daughter behind a .50 cal would mean that the writer's offspring would survive any conflict with lesser armed individuals.
47. Al Gore would claim he invented the .50cal cartridge and say he was sorry.
48. Cities would be experimenting with electric guns but would be surprised to find that people would step in front of them at the range because they were too quiet so no one knew the electric gun was there.
49. President Clinton would demand that electric gun manufacturers put a cowbell on each one to prevent senseless accidents.
50. The National Rifle Association would be reduced to selling travel insurance for your guns because the rest of society will have seen to it that there would be no chance that firearms would ever be banned.
51. A Howa would go full auto (DESPITE THEY ARE BOLT ACTION!), and massive recall ensues. The Government Gun-Czar will do everything to cause public panic and so they will trade-in their Howas for a (now Government-owned) S&W or Colts. The CEO of Howa and Legacy will have to attend congressional hearings, and apologize for bolt guns going full-auto.
51a. Oh, did I mention someone would keep the trigger depressed and compulsively reloads while calling their spouse on his bluetooth headset, and cops will have to use the bullhorn to tell him that if you stop reloading and keep your finger off the trigger, the gun will cease to fire. All these will be followed by news helicopters and watched by the millions on CNN and/or Fox.
52. ....and if you come home drunk; you old lady would make you sleep outside on your gun.
53. Every gun would come with a government mandated silencer just like a car comes with a catalectic converter.
54. Every Thursday night, the local TV news would show hidden camera
footage from a gunshop, and the anchors would be backslapping giddy
over the ridiculous things the store clerk said.
55. You could still get Earl Sheib to refinish your guns for $69.95 (except for reds, they are $79.95) plus any necessary rust removal and the filling in of any scratches and dents??????????????
56. Bianchi Cup winner would be on the front page of the local newspaper.
57. Everyone would have a Cowboy Action Shooting handle.
58. Full auto guns would be charged an "Ammo Guzzler Tax".
59. You would be required to spend thousands of dollars annually on "Gun Insurance".
60. Carrying a 22 would get you into the "Gun Pool Lane".
61. MTV launches new show: Pimp my Gun. They would bring in beat up guns to goofy gunsmiths and bling em up.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Mar 15 2010, 10:35AM
I'm all over number 11!!!
I do have one concern, the Toyota fire by wire system...
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Thu Mar 18 2010, 12:50PM
BBL Sportsmans Club ???????
Does anyone here belong to it? I havn't been able to access their web site for months. Just wondering what's going on with the place???
Their web site: [Click Here]
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Mar 19 2010, 12:00AM
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Mar 19 2010, 06:29AM
You just had to pour salt on the wound!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Mar 19 2010, 06:33AM
Luna, if you were a better shot you wouldn't need all those bullets.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Mar 19 2010, 12:59PM
Hey now, all those extra bullets are to lay down suppression fire, giving someone else the ability to out flank them and take them out with well aimed shots!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Mar 19 2010, 05:28PM
Luna wrote ...
You must have lots of targets to shoot at??
Lucky man.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Mar 19 2010, 10:36PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
You must have lots of targets to shoot at??
Lucky man.
You must have lots of targets to shoot at??
Lucky man.
Aw heck, that was just one little box of 100 for practice and fun. I try and grab 4-6 boxes every time I pass WallyWorld.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Mar 20 2010, 07:21AM
I am in the process of becoming a new gun owner. Just wondering where the best place, price wise, is, to buy ammunition.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 20 2010, 08:51AM
Socalman wrote ...
I am in the process of becoming a new gun owner. Just wondering where the best place, price wise, is, to buy ammunition.
I am in the process of becoming a new gun owner. Just wondering where the best place, price wise, is, to buy ammunition.
you're in Ca. the only thing harder to find here is a politician with a brain.You can check Wallyworld but thats hit or most likely miss, so look for a gun shop their price will be higher though, then there are on line sellers, some will still ship to Ca. others won't.
What calibur are you getting? 9mm is easier to find then 45, and 22 is some what OK
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Mar 20 2010, 08:56AM
Socalman wrote ...
I am in the process of becoming a new gun owner. Just wondering where the best place, price wise, is, to buy ammunition.
I am in the process of becoming a new gun owner. Just wondering where the best place, price wise, is, to buy ammunition.
Oregon.
No sales tax either.
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sat Mar 20 2010, 09:50AM
I buy all of my ammo online and reload for rifle, here are a few to try:
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
There are many others as well, just have to search around to find who has what and the best price. Good luck.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 20 2010, 09:52AM
I know... group buy!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sat Mar 20 2010, 10:32AM
Ammo has gotten very scarce since they started anticipating the coming of the Obama era.
Walmart was always the best choice for rim-fire and shotgun unless Big 5 and Turner's has the ammo that you looking for on sale. Lately, Walmart has started to limit the maximum amount of ammo that you can buy and their selection has also been very limited for rim-fire and center-fire ammo.
I have purchased online from Cheaper than Dirt and The Sportsman Guide when buying in lots of 500+. Of course, you have to factor in the shipping cost in their sale pricing.
As for gun shows, the past two years I have been to the L.A., Orange and San Diego shows only to be disappointed with the inflated pricing that the vendors were asking.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 20 2010, 12:19PM
[Click Here]
great price (for the times) and Ca. friendly
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Mar 20 2010, 12:43PM
I have have had a single shot .22 rifle since I was about 11. The last time I bought was many years ago at K-Mart and it was .22 shorts. I will be needing 9mm. I have wondered if Turners was a good place to buy. Also will be buys some 12 gauge shells. My son has an older rifle which I believe takes 7.62, but not sure about that.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 20 2010, 03:10PM
Turners is OK, some(most) of the sales people know nothing and will tell you FUD (all lies) so know what you want before you buy and know your price range.
click this to get their on line ad and see what they got this week. [Click Here]
Oh do not buy a S&W Sigma, not woth the money.
If you don't mind used you can get some excellent deals at most guns shops. Or I can steer you to a few places that have lists.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Sat Mar 20 2010, 03:37PM
The best price for shotgun shells is WalMart !!!
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sat Mar 20 2010, 04:40PM
I SOOoooo want an H&K.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun Mar 21 2010, 04:56PM
Ok, after a little research (very little) what would you suggest for home protection .38 .380 or 9mm or something else? In the hand of a small woman would you think a .223 would be sufficient?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Mar 21 2010, 06:24PM
I love my little .380 perfect for a woman in size . Also I have a 45 (military) would use it mostly to make noise Of course if it happened to hit someone it would do the job
9MM (about the same as .380) seemes to be a good choice due to ammunation being a standard and a good weapon. buy quality also extra mags,
When I can afford it I would like to get a mini-14
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sun Mar 21 2010, 07:32PM
Personally, for home protection you can't beat a 12 gauge or 20 gauge pump. Lots of noise, impact and hit percentage. Relatively inexpensive to purchase both weapon and ammo. Next, 1911 45 ACP.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Mar 21 2010, 07:39PM
.380 is better then nothing, but for home defense I'd go with a .357 minimum. You can shoot 38's in them so practice is cheaper this way, I know women that love a .45 so don’t sell your wife short, go to a range that rents and try out a bunch, or you buy the ammo and I’ll let her shoot some on mine, from a .22, .380, .38/.357, .45, or 9mm, there is also a .327 but it has a wicked good kick. I like it, my daughter not so much so she shoots lower power 32’s in hers.
Now if you take me up on my offer I’ll need to know if she wants to try semi-auto or revolver, I recommend revolver due to the ease of operation, load, close cylinder, aim and pull trigger.
Semi-auto is almost the same but you have to rack the slid in the to load a round in the chamber and some women (my kid) say it’s to hard to do………
PM me if interested.
.223 is a rifle round, like Oden said shootgun is a great way to go too.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Mar 21 2010, 08:44PM
Oden wrote ...
Personally, for home protection you can't beat a 12 gauge or 20 gauge pump. Lots of noise, impact and hit percentage. Relatively inexpensive to purchase both weapon and ammo...
Personally, for home protection you can't beat a 12 gauge or 20 gauge pump. Lots of noise, impact and hit percentage. Relatively inexpensive to purchase both weapon and ammo...
Yep! Less chance of hittin' neighbors too, if they are relatively close.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Mar 24 2010, 03:30AM
My vote also goes for the shotgun. From personal experience, the distinct sound of racking (chambering) a shell causes any dirt-bag to look for the nearest exit!
Now, if you actually would like to try to reduce the dirt-bag population a handgun in .357 magnum, .40 S&W or .45 ACP calibers would be my best choices.
As for recoil, not all .45 Auto are as intimidating as the original Colt Government 1911 Series XX. My wife prefers shooting my Glock Model 30 over both my S&W Sigma (9mm) and Walther PPKS (.380 Auto).
Before you purchase any firearm, might I suggest you try to get some friends or forum members to let you fire a few rounds through their firearms to find the best fit for you and your spouse.
Hint, hint, we just happen to in the process of trying to schedule a clean-up and shooting meet for the month of April. [Click Here]
You are more than welcome to come try out my Sigma , Glock and Mossberg 9200 12 gauge semi-auto shotgun.
Sorry no longer own a pump action shotgun, an in-law relieved me of my first gun collection while the Mrs. and I were on our honeymoon. Made the mistake of asking the person to watch our house and dogs while we were away and he hocked my guns for drugs!
I really miss my SKS, Mossberg 590 and S&W 659.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Mar 24 2010, 06:11AM
BTW, a .410 shotgun when outfitted with slugs almost has the same muzzle energy as .44 Magnum.
Load it with 00 Buckshot and you get to fire four (4) approximately .30 caliber sized pellets towards your intended target.
Can you say OUCH?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Mar 24 2010, 06:50AM
I always wanted to get a snake charmer 28 1/2 inch long. .410
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed Mar 24 2010, 12:37PM
Do they still make Thompson Contender? Did I spell it right?
Obviously I'm looking for the poop that Google doesn't know.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Mar 24 2010, 01:09PM
Yes and the range of what you can get/do is amazing!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Thu Mar 25 2010, 03:37AM
Back in the day when I lived in Florida, a family friend had a Class III license that allowed him to collect quite a few firearms that I drooled over. Aside from the fully automatic ones, I really wanted to get a hold of the "special purpose" versions shotguns that he owned. He had pump action, semi-auto and double barreled shotguns that were not much bigger than an 8" barreled revolver.
One could argue the practicality of these firearms till Obama finds his "real" birth certificate, again!
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Mar 25 2010, 08:59PM
My new question: Went shopping today at a gun store and I think I got a clerk who new quite a bit. He gave me some good background on the Mossberg and Remington 12ga. shotguns, then said it was pretty much personal preference. Comments from the peanut gallery?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Mar 25 2010, 09:39PM
Socalman
I don't think you ever explained why you were buying a gun?
Myself, I don't have much use for a shotgun. They are very good in your home but are a devastating weapon, and like all can go through walls. Keep in mind your families safety. If you use a lighter shot you can mitigate the damage a bit.
In most in the home cases I would be happy with a 22 semi pistol.
don't ignore having a good blade. Many times that might be a better weapon.
If you want it mostly for plinking I suggest you start with a 22 and work your way up. You will learn fast and if you go out with the group you will quickly decide on what you would like.
they all have a special area they are best at. Don't buy junk. A few minutes in a gun store and your eye should quickly pick up on quality.
But don't overlook the military if you are looking at a rifle. Lots of good stuff that may not look so good in that area.
grab somebody that knows their way around and go to a gun show.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Mar 26 2010, 05:15AM
Socalman,
Sorry for the length of my post, but here my .02 worth.
I would have to second BG's statement "I don't think you ever explained why you were buying a gun?".
If your primary reason is defense of your home then, I would again recommend the pump-action shotgun. The sound of chambering a round is universally known to dirt-bags and your chances of missing in a panicked situation are minimized.
As for which caliber to purchase, the .12 gauge is the most common, and therefore easiest to find on sale. The smaller .20 gauge and much smaller .410 are equally suited for the task.
Don't get me wrong any firearm in the hands of a reasonably proficient shooter is up to the task. In making your decision also factor in how much range time and ammo you are willing to invest. If your commitment will be minimal, and home defense is the reason for purchase, then the shotgun is your best bet!
No disrespect to BG but any handgun that you purchase would require you to greatly increase your investment into becoming a proficient shooter. Irrespective of its diminutive size, the .22 caliber is a very lethal round. That been said, its lethality is highly dependent on shot placement.
From my experience, if you add panic to the equation, your chances of hitting your target will be greatly diminished.
Another thing to ponder, if you do hit your target, do you want kill the SOB or do you just want to wound him so that he can challenge you in court?
I subscribe to the old saying "a dead man tells no tales".
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Mar 26 2010, 06:58AM
Yes! to what Rubi said. Practice, practice, practice! I like to go 2 times a week and when I miss a few times I can see it in my target. You need to shoot just so your mind gets motor skills and knows what to do with out thinking. Handgun or shotgun, this is true, you need to know what is behind your target, is it your kids room, outside wall, car, whatever. Think “If I miss where is the bullet going to stop”. This is the second lesson, the first is, a gun is ALWAYS loaded.
Another reason to practice is to learn the firearm you are using, I own more then one but the one I shoot the most is the one I will use for HD as I know it best.
Rubi, I was taught by a Police office to shoot, not to wound, one reason is you don’t want them to come back either in court or at night. I don’t know anyone that can place all their shots to wound not kill, that said I’ve heard stories of perps. getting multiple shots with a 45 and living.
So if you get one lets set up a weekly range practice time!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Mar 26 2010, 07:39AM
RubiCrawlerLJ wrote ...
Another thing to ponder, if you do hit your target, do you want kill the SOB or do you just want to wound him so that he can challenge you in court?
I subscribe to the old saying "a dead man tells no tales".
Another thing to ponder, if you do hit your target, do you want kill the SOB or do you just want to wound him so that he can challenge you in court?
I subscribe to the old saying "a dead man tells no tales".
THAT is one of the most important questions of all...
Using lethal force with a lethal weapon vs. wounding someone with a lethal weapon, and then having the dirtbag sue you in court...even if he loses, so do you in the costs to defend yourself.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Mar 26 2010, 09:14AM
Luna wrote ...
THAT is one of the most important questions of all...
Using lethal force with a lethal weapon vs. wounding someone with a lethal weapon, and then having the dirtbag sue you in court...even if he loses, so do you in the costs to defend yourself.
RubiCrawlerLJ wrote ...
Another thing to ponder, if you do hit your target, do you want kill the SOB or do you just want to wound him so that he can challenge you in court?
I subscribe to the old saying "a dead man tells no tales".
Another thing to ponder, if you do hit your target, do you want kill the SOB or do you just want to wound him so that he can challenge you in court?
I subscribe to the old saying "a dead man tells no tales".
THAT is one of the most important questions of all...
Using lethal force with a lethal weapon vs. wounding someone with a lethal weapon, and then having the dirtbag sue you in court...even if he loses, so do you in the costs to defend yourself.
As tough as it may sound, I agree with this statement.
IF I have to use a weapon to defend myself and my home, I'm shooting to KILL.
I hope I never have to do this, but if some criminal breaks into my home, I'm not going to give them a chance to hurt me. I'll yell that I'm armed and they have 3 seconds to leave my home. That's it.
After that, game on.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Fri Mar 26 2010, 09:48AM
About shotguns. In my opinion, the Remmington 870 pump, 12 or 20ga is the best gun for the money. You can find them on sale once in a while at Big 5 ( or with a rebate sometimes ). They are very nice guns, build great. The 20 ga is about 6.5 lbs ( 1 lb lighter than the 12ga ). Easy to handle. "Target" shells are ~ $5 for 25 ( at wally-world ). You can get a huge varity of shells for whatever you want to shoot. I'm going to be ( i think ) at the Mitsu Plant shoot-out on the 10th if anyne wants to try the 20ga 870. I got my new Target flinger HOLDER that my neighbor made for me (see pic) it fits into the receiver on the back of my truck :-)
Good luck, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Fri Mar 26 2010, 09:58AM
Could kick myself around the block for selling my 870 20 Modified years ago. BUT used the $ to get an Ithaca side by side 20, Skeet and Skeet; talk about fast handling and a dream to carry!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Mar 26 2010, 11:15AM
Okay, now I REALLY need to get into reloading...
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Mar 26 2010, 01:35PM
To answer the question, why are we interested in buying? First of all I think that if I don't exercise our 2nd amendment rights soon, I my not have the opportunity to do so.
Second, I would like to have something around for some home protection. Right now, where I am in my research I am leaning to a shotgun first, also thinking that I could use it for occasional hunting with my brother. The next part of the situation is handgun. I looked at a snub-nose .38 revolver, 5 shot for my wife, though the .22 could also be an option. For myself I am think a .357 since it will also hold the .38 as I understand.
Though I would not consider myself proficient with firearms, as a teen I shot quite a bit and can handle the weapon well enough to hit the center of the target quite a bit.
I am going to take the state firearms test next week.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Mar 26 2010, 01:42PM
Addendum to the above post and answers a question:
If someone is in my home without permission I have no problem to let them meet their maker. I don't believe in "shoot to wound" as according to a good friend of mine who taught shooting for the LAPD, when a cop shoots to wound he often ends up killed. The decision has to be made before you grab the weapon. Don't get me wrong, I am not going to shoot at any noise I might hear in my home. However once I determine it to be a bad guy I have no problems.
Re: Gun ownership
MtMan, Fri Mar 26 2010, 04:03PM
Socalman: I have a mossberg 12 guage pump that has an interchangable barrel. Normally the 18" barrel is on it for home defense. As far as the test, make sure you review the manual that prepares you for that test. Easy test (I scored 110%) but there is questions about the law that I would not have known other than in the manual. I believe you can download it somewhere. Maybe others here would know exactly where. Good luck.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Mar 26 2010, 04:59PM
I've only shot one (older) snub nose .38. It was very difficult to control and is really not good for anything over 20~40+ yards. Heck, I had trouble hitting targets 20~30 ft away and I can normally hit my targets.
I was not very impressed.
The 9mm Luna recently purchased looks nice. I like steel guns, like Baretta pistols. I've found them to be more reliable.
[Click Here]
Maybe you should visit the next shooting event near the Mitsubishi plant? You'll get to try a bunch of weapons first hand and see which ones you like.
I know you'll make the right choices for your needs.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Mar 26 2010, 05:01PM
Luna wrote ...
Okay, now I REALLY need to get into reloading...
Okay, now I REALLY need to get into reloading...
This should be my "front gate"
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Mar 26 2010, 05:58PM
Socalman,
Here is a link to CA Handgun Safety Certificate Program study guide.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Mar 26 2010, 06:20PM
I'll bring a sunbie for you to try, one in 38/357 and one in 9mm...................
lots of fun!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Mar 26 2010, 06:44PM
RubiCrawlerLJ wrote ...
Socalman,
Here is a link to CA Handgun Safety Certificate Program study guide.
[Click Here]
Socalman,
Here is a link to CA Handgun Safety Certificate Program study guide.
[Click Here]
OMG. that's more than what it takes to get a CHL (concealed handgun license) up here. The local Sheriff's office staff teaches a 3 hour course for $25...
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Mar 27 2010, 07:21AM
Thanks all! I picked up the gun safety test booklet at the gun shop I visited. I would say 90% of it would come under common sense.
I doubt I will be able to make the event at the Mitsu plant on the 10th. I am still recovering from the very severe sciatica and am just getting to the place I can walk again without a cane. Perhaps the next event I can make it.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Mar 27 2010, 07:24AM
Luna wrote ...
OMG. that's more than what it takes to get a CHL (concealed handgun license) up here. The local Sheriff's office staff teaches a 3 hour course for $25...
[Click Here]
a RubiCrawlerLJ wrote ...
Socalman,
Here is a link to CA Handgun Safety Certificate Program study guide.
[Click Here]
Socalman,
Here is a link to CA Handgun Safety Certificate Program study guide.
[Click Here]
OMG. that's more than what it takes to get a CHL (concealed handgun license) up here. The local Sheriff's office staff teaches a 3 hour course for $25...
[Click Here]
Maybe I should use our Big Bear address. My home is LA County and getting a concealed weapon permit is IMPOSSIBLE.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Mar 27 2010, 07:48AM
Get OFF my lawn!!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Mar 27 2010, 12:23PM
at what at least a buck a round for the M.G.'s???
gotta love Arizona
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Mar 27 2010, 01:02PM
Oh man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Mar 28 2010, 07:23AM
Socalman wrote ...
Maybe I should use our Big Bear address. My home is LA County and getting a concealed weapon permit is IMPOSSIBLE.
Maybe I should use our Big Bear address. My home is LA County and getting a concealed weapon permit is IMPOSSIBLE.
Trying to get one in CA is near impossible in most counties unless you can justify it by your profession.
I have worked for a local Sheriff's Dept for almost 19 years now, working alongside deputies, helping them babysit inmates and I still do not qualify for one in my department's eyes. Even though we occasionally receive threats, my co-workers and I that have applied for CCWs have always been denied by the last three Sheriff's administration.
Heck, we are no longer allowed to request for the confidentiality of our license plates.
There is always "open carry" if you are up with your gun laws, and are confident that you draw, load a magazine and chamber a round before the perp has his way with you and your firearm. Of course, you must be prepared to been stopped by LEOs that will ask you to demonstrate that the firearm is unloaded and that you are legally allowed to own a firearm while you are probably at gun point.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Apr 02 2010, 03:54PM
Took one more step to exercising my 2nd amendment rights today. I took the handgun safety test and passed with 100%. Hard to believe people miss more then 7 questions on it! I now have my permit to buy a handgun in the late great state of California.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Apr 02 2010, 10:50PM
now comes the decision to buy through a dealer, or private party not registered.
plus and minus to both sides
If you might want to get a carry permi get it registered.
If you are paranoid about them breaking your door down to take it away buy private party.
other downsides of not registering.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Apr 03 2010, 07:47AM
BG can NOT legally buy from a privet party, unless you go through a FFL for the deal.
I do it all the time so it can be done it's called a FTF (face to face) deal or PPT( Privet party transaction), all sales need to go this way (FFL). in ca.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Apr 03 2010, 01:34PM
leagle?....we don' need no stinken leagle
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sat Apr 03 2010, 01:35PM
bills grandson wrote ...
leagle?....we don' need no stinken leagle
leagle?....we don' need no stinken leagle
Hear, hear!!
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Apr 03 2010, 06:46PM
Just because certain high ranking government officials don't feel it is necessary to follow the law, I probably will. Is registration of handguns constitutional? I do not really know, though to be honest I lean to it being constitutional.
On the other hand, are sobriety checkpoints constitutional? I firmly believe they are a VIOLATION of the constitution, yet I am sort of glad they have been allowed to exist. As a musician I often worked gigs that ended at 1:00AM. I was usually on the road home between 1:45 and 2:30 AM and every single time I could spot severely impaired drivers.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Apr 03 2010, 07:18PM
I myself don't believe it is right, but till it is over-thrown in court I'll play their game
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Apr 03 2010, 09:32PM
It is probably smarter to register, at least one gun. But may be wiser not to.
If you lean towards paranoia, an unrefistered assault rifle and a 1,000 rounds of ammo hiden away can keep you warm at night.
My stuff is pretty generic and I will argue grandfathered in as most have been in the family forever.
The reason not to register is in the movie red dawn. A fear long before the movie came out. And mostly a fear of our own government if it were ever hijacked . Which of course could never happen, right?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Apr 04 2010, 03:28PM
BG, if you owned them before 2000, don't worry. no one knows.
Now if you go to sell them via a dealer there still will be no problem as you own them before the new law.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Apr 05 2010, 09:08PM
Just learned yesterday why I need to stock up on 2nd amendment goodies. Jack Bauer will not be around next year to protect us! In all seriousness, I think I have settled on the Mossberg 500 as the first shotgun. The weight factor, particularly in the hands of my wife is a major factor. Now, just to find the best buy on it. Will hit pawn shops this week, Turners in both Pasadena & West Covina. Does Big 5 still carry guns in California?
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Apr 05 2010, 10:15PM
My son has had a Bulgarian made 7.62 semi for years. He has 42 rounds in stock. I just ordered 4 boxes, each a different brand, from an online source. After placing the order I began to wonder, do you think 20 rounds is enough to judge the quality of the product? We intend to order "an ample supply" if they seem to work.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:31AM
Yes, Big 5 still sells guns in CA.
Right now they have a Remington Security 12 gauge shotgun on sale for $369.99. I've seen it go for $319.99 with a $50.00 Remington mail-in rebate recently but who knows when another rebate will be offered by the manufacturer. [Click Here]
Link to Turner's Outdoorsman weekly ad: [Click Here]
Link to Turner's Outdoorsman spring flyer: [Click Here]
Another source for gun sales is Davidson's Gallery of Guns [Click Here] and Gunbroker [Click Here].
Davidson's offers you the ability to see the prices of independent gun dealer based on your zip code while Gunbroker allows you to shop national dealers and private parties that will still sell to and deliver firearms to CA through the FFL dealer of your choice.
BTW, Turner's will do the transfer for private party sales for less than $50 dollars now that you have your certificate.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 06 2010, 07:02AM
I was going to pass on any comment about big 5 and transfers, but just got done reading some horror storys about them, I would look for a gun shop for transfers, and "by law" they are only allowed to charge you $35.00 dollars for a PPT/FTF transfer, thats $10. + $25. dros fee. It pays to call around to shops to find out their fees as some do charge more.
I have a FFL friend in Apple Valley that will do it for $35. He is also a Sheriff and always has good deals on handguns and rifles,
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Apr 06 2010, 02:03PM
THE
GETTYSBURG
ADDRESS
Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth
on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and
dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing
whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so
dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-
field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of
that field as a final resting-place for those who here gave
their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether
fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate…we cannot
consecrate…we cannot hallow…this ground. The brave men,
living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it
far above our poor power to add or detract. The world
will little note nor long remember what we say here, but
it can never forget what they did here. It is for us, the
living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished
work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly
advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the
great task remaining before us…that from these honored
dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which
they gave the last full measure of devotion; that we here
highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain;
that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of
freedom; and that government of the people, by the people,
for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
November 19, 1863
Re: Gun ownership
, Tue Apr 06 2010, 02:09PM
Go to Constitutional Amendments
THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION
--------------------- ----------------------------------- ------------------------
(See Note 1)
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Article. I.
Section 1.
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
Section. 2.
Clause 1: The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.
Clause 2: No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.
Clause 3: Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. (See Note 2) The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.
Clause 4: When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.
Clause 5: The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
Section. 3.
Clause 1: The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, (See Note 3) for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.
Clause 2: Immediately after they shall be assembled in Consequence of the first Election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three Classes. The Seats of the Senators of the first Class shall be vacated at the Expiration of the second Year, of the second Class at the Expiration of the fourth Year, and of the third Class at the Expiration of the sixth Year, so that one third may be chosen every second Year; and if Vacancies happen by Resignation, or otherwise, during the Recess of the Legislature of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary Appointments until the next Meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such Vacancies. (See Note 4)
Clause 3: No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.
Clause 4: The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
Clause 5: The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States.
Clause 6: The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
Clause 7: Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
Section. 4.
Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
Clause 2: The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, (See Note 5) unless they shall by Law appoint a different Day.
Section. 5.
Clause 1: Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller Number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.
Clause 2: Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member.
Clause 3: Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their Judgment require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the Desire of one fifth of those Present, be entered on the Journal.
Clause 4: Neither House, during the Session of Congress, shall, without the Consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other Place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting.
Section. 6.
Clause 1: The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. (See Note 6) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, beprivileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
Clause 2: No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.
Section. 7.
Clause 1: All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.
Clause 2: Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.
Clause 3: Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.
Section. 8.
Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Section. 9.
Clause 1: The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
Clause 2: The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
Clause 3: No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Clause 4: No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken. (See Note 7)
Clause 5: No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
Clause 6: No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
Clause 7: No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
Clause 8: No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
Section. 10.
Clause 1: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
Clause 2: No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.
Clause 3: No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
Article. II.
Section. 1.
Clause 1: The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows
Clause 2: Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
Clause 3: The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President. (See Note 8)
Clause 4: The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
Clause 5: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
Clause 6: In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, (See Note 9) the Same shall devolve on the VicePresident, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
Clause 7: The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.
Clause 8: Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Section. 2.
Clause 1: The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
Clause 2: He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
Clause 3: The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.
Section. 3.
He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.
Section. 4.
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Article. III.
Section. 1.
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.
Section. 2.
Clause 1: The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;--between a State and Citizens of another State; (See Note 10)--between Citizens of different States, --between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.
Clause 2: In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.
Clause 3: The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.
Section. 3.
Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
Clause 2: The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
Article. IV.
Section. 1.
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Section. 2.
Clause 1: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
Clause 2: A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.
Clause 3: No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due. (See Note 11)
Section. 3.
Clause 1: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
Clause 2: The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
Section. 4.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
Article. VI.
Clause 1: All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
Clause 2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Article. VII.
The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.
done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
GO WASHINGTON--Presidt. and deputy from Virginia
[Signed also by the deputies of twelve States.]
Delaware
Geo: Read
Gunning Bedford jun
John Dickinson
Richard Bassett
Jaco: Broom
Maryland
James MCHenry
Dan of ST ThoS. Jenifer
DanL Carroll.
Virginia
John Blair--
James Madison Jr.
North Carolina
WM Blount
RichD. Dobbs Spaight.
Hu Williamson
South Carolina
J. Rutledge
Charles 1ACotesworth Pinckney
Charles Pinckney
Pierce Butler.
Georgia
William Few
Abr Baldwin
New Hampshire
John Langdon
Nicholas Gilman
Massachusetts
Nathaniel Gorham
Rufus King
Connecticut
WM. SamL. Johnson
Roger Sherman
New York
Alexander Hamilton
New Jersey
Wil: Livingston
David Brearley.
WM. Paterson.
Jona: Dayton
Pennsylvania
B Franklin
Thomas Mifflin
RobT Morris
Geo. Clymer
ThoS. FitzSimons
Jared Ingersoll
James Wilson.
Gouv Morris
Attest William Jackson Secretary
NOTES
Note 1: This text of the Constitution follows the engrossed copy signed by Gen. Washington and the deputies from 12 States. The small superior figures preceding the paragraphs designate Clauses, and were not in the original and have no reference to footnotes.
The Constitution was adopted by a convention of the States on September 17, 1787, and was subsequently ratified by the several States, on the following dates: Delaware, December 7, 1787; Pennsylvania, December 12, 1787; New Jersey, December 18, 1787; Georgia, January 2, 1788; Connecticut, January 9, 1788; Massachusetts, February 6, 1788; Maryland, April 28, 1788; South Carolina, May 23, 1788; New Hampshire, June 21, 1788.
Ratification was completed on June 21, 1788.
The Constitution was subsequently ratified by Virginia, June 25, 1788; New York, July 26, 1788; North Carolina, November 21, 1789; Rhode Island, May 29, 1790; and Vermont, January 10, 1791.
In May 1785, a committee of Congress made a report recommending an alteration in the Articles of Confederation, but no action was taken on it, and it was left to the State Legislatures to proceed in the matter. In January 1786, the Legislature of Virginia passed a resolution providing for the appointment of five commissioners, who, or any three of them, should meet such commissioners as might be appointed in the other States of the Union, at a time and place to be agreed upon, to take into consideration the trade of the United States; to consider how far a uniform system in their commercial regulations may be necessary to their common interest and their permanent harmony; and to report to the several States such an act, relative to this great object, as, when ratified by them, will enable the United States in Congress effectually to provide for the same. The Virginia commissioners, after some correspondence, fixed the first Monday in September as the time, and the city of Annapolis as the place for the meeting, but only four other States were represented, viz: Delaware, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania; the commissioners appointed by Massachusetts, New Hampshire, North Carolina, and Rhode Island failed to attend. Under the circumstances of so partial a representation, the commissioners present agreed upon a report, (drawn by Mr. Hamilton, of New York,) expressing their unanimous conviction that it might essentially tend to advance the interests of the Union if the States by which they were respectively delegated would concur, and use their endeavors to procure the concurrence of the other States, in the appointment of commissioners to meet at Philadelphia on the Second Monday of May following, to take into consideration the situation of the United States; to devise such further provisions as should appear to them necessary to render the Constitution of the Federal Government adequate to the exigencies of the Union; and to report such an act for that purpose to the United States in Congress assembled as, when agreed to by them and afterwards confirmed by the Legislatures of every State, would effectually provide for the same.
Congress, on the 21st of February, 1787, adopted a resolution in favor of a convention, and the Legislatures of those States which had not already done so (with the exception of Rhode Island) promptly appointed delegates. On the 25th of May, seven States having convened, George Washington, of Virginia, was unanimously elected President, and the consideration of the proposed constitution was commenced. On the 17th of September, 1787, the Constitution as engrossed and agreed upon was signed by all the members present, except Mr. Gerry of Massachusetts, and Messrs. Mason and Randolph, of Virginia. The president of the convention transmitted it to Congress, with a resolution stating how the proposed Federal Government should be put in operation, and an explanatory letter. Congress, on the 28th of September, 1787, directed the Constitution so framed, with the resolutions and letter concerning the same, to "be transmitted to the several Legislatures in order to be submitted to a convention of delegates chosen in each State by the people thereof, in conformity to the resolves of the convention."
On the 4th of March, 1789, the day which had been fixed for commencing the operations of Government under the new Constitution, it had been ratified by the conventions chosen in each State to consider it, as follows: Delaware, December 7, 1787; Pennsylvania, December 12, 1787; New Jersey, December 18, 1787; Georgia, January 2, 1788; Connecticut, January 9, 1788; Massachusetts, February 6, 1788; Maryland, April 28, 1788; South Carolina, May 23, 1788; New Hampshire, June 21, 1788; Virginia, June 25, 1788; and New York, July 26, 1788.
The President informed Congress, on the 28th of January, 1790, that North Carolina had ratified the Constitution November 21, 1789; and he informed Congress on the 1st of June, 1790, that Rhode Island had ratified the Constitution May 29, 1790. Vermont, in convention, ratified the Constitution January 10, 1791, and was, by an act of Congress approved February 18, 1791, "received and admitted into this Union as a new and entire member of the United States."
Note 2: The part of this Clause relating to the mode of apportionment of representatives among the several States has been affected by Section 2 of amendment XIV, and as to taxes on incomes without apportionment by amendment XVI.
Note 3: This Clause has been affected by Clause 1 of amendment XVII.
Note 4: This Clause has been affected by Clause 2 of amendment XVIII.
Note 5: This Clause has been affected by amendment XX.
Note 6: This Clause has been affected by amendment XXVII.
Note 7: This Clause has been affected by amendment XVI.
Note 8: This Clause has been superseded by amendment XII.
Note 9: This Clause has been affected by amendment XXV.
Note 10: This Clause has been affected by amendment XI.
Note 11: This Clause has been affected by amendment XIII.
This information has been compiled from the U.S. Code. The U.S. Code is published by the Law Revision Counsel of the U.S. House of Representatives.
Updated September 20, 2004
--------------------------- ----------------------------------- ------------------
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Re: Gun ownership
bc, Tue Apr 06 2010, 02:12PM
My great grandfather, as an older man with grown children, got his rifle, mounted up, and joined the Union forces to go free the slaves, which they did. I'm only half "white". Our family has a history of defending this country, all the way back to the original settlers and up to and including my offspring. I'm getting extremely tired of people who think I, or any of my many relatives, owe them something.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:02PM
wow Brandon supporting the 2a rights of Americans.
un-believable!!!!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:11PM
bkap wrote ...
wow Brandon supporting the 2a rights of Americans.
un-believable!!!!!!!
wow Brandon supporting the 2a rights of Americans.
un-believable!!!!!!!
You forgot to congratulate him on his first two posts without name calling or denigrating someone because of their religion.
Hooray Brandon on a job well done!!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:28PM
oh yea, that too.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:30PM
I don't know exactly where we are going with this thread. but.....
While looking up my family a few years ago I ran across this picture.
It was titled Knickerbocker reunion at Devil's den, little round top, Gettysburg.
Nothing else was said but I asumed they all fought for the north With the 'boys from Pennsylvania. But it is entirely possible that the dark suits were northern, and the lighter suits a bit seperated, but together were fo the Sout.
And how many more were there that didn't make it?
Fought almost in the backyard of where my Grandfather was born a few years later.
sort of a civil war baby boomer
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:49PM
Ah BG, wish you c/would write it all down, my familys history in this country started in the 1890's with my grandfarther landing at Ellis island
Re: Gun ownership
Winkie, Tue Apr 06 2010, 03:56PM
Awesome picture BG. Incredible history.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Apr 06 2010, 04:48PM
actualy I know little about any civil war history. It is not mentioned in any letters I have. There were a lot of family in Pennsylvania, 2 branches of the family. (we were the poor ones). Only one other family member was talked about having gone to war and that was WW2.
My moms brothers, cousins etc. all seved WW2 in the Pacific for the most part (navy). I think they have served in about every war this country has been involved in.
And her family goes way back.to the early settelers. She has a prettyy good list of names, but I haven't got to that side much.
I think if we all did some digging we would find some very interesting people
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 06 2010, 04:57PM
I bet you could BG!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Apr 06 2010, 08:02PM
perhap's digging was the wrong word to use to "find some very interesting people"
(very rare emote)Re: Gun ownership
Deb Doodah, Tue Apr 06 2010, 08:05PM
My family geneology has been done by a number of folks in the family. It is a lot of fun to look through. I had relatives that arrived on the Mayflower, some that were on either side of the Boston Tea Party, and William Bradford who was the first governor of the Mayflower Compact. And, Calvin Coolidge some where in the mix. This is all on my Mom's side.
Now, my dad's side came from Ireland during the Potato famine and were dirt farmers in Kansas. I haven't seen all the new information my dad has found but he has gone back to nobleman and the like way back when.
If you ever get a chance, you can look at Geneology.com and get lots of information.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Apr 06 2010, 08:34PM
when I first started looking around I found where someone had my immediate family listed wife, kids, etc. To this day I haven't found who went to that trouble Not that many people would have had the information on that and would bother.
Gets scarey as you go further back. If you go back10 generations or so it seems there is a link that could connect us all.
Re: Gun ownership
Winkie, Wed Apr 07 2010, 08:02AM
guncontrol.wmvThere are those whom would benefit from gun control and their rights need to be protected!
(has sound)
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Apr 07 2010, 08:31AM
WTF ?
Sorry He-is-RisenWink with all the name changes I thought 3B posted that video.
I am really truly sorry on so many levels
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Apr 07 2010, 08:40AM
BG,
Wink, yes they love "victim zones" they may get hurt if people could have guns.
Re: Gun ownership
Winkie, Wed Apr 07 2010, 12:52PM
Sorry if it was a repeat. I just got this one today in my email.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Apr 07 2010, 01:30PM
ya know, some of us forget what we had for breakfast, I'm just sayin'
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Apr 09 2010, 08:24AM
Amazing Slow Motion Bullet Impact
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue Apr 13 2010, 06:42AM
As I move into the realm of exercising my 2nd amendment rights I have another question for the more experienced gun owners out there. I am doing everything to the letter of the law (even if I believe that the law is unconstitutional). I am researching handguns for personal protection. Obviously a firearm sitting at home will not do my wife any good if she is threatened. So now the question of the ability to carry a concealed weapon. She is not going to get a gun with a 6 inch barrel into or out of a purse very easily. I know you can find a .357 with a 2 inch barrel but that may not be the best choice. I am thinking that something in the area of a 3 inch would be good choice. Comments?
Re: Gun ownership
Deb Doodah, Tue Apr 13 2010, 07:02AM
Socalman wrote ...
As I move into the realm of exercising my 2nd amendment rights I have another question for the more experienced gun owners out there. I am doing everything to the letter of the law (even if I believe that the law is unconstitutional). I am researching handguns for personal protection. Obviously a firearm sitting at home will not do my wife any good if she is threatened. So now the question of the ability to carry a concealed weapon. She is not going to get a gun with a 6 inch barrel into or out of a purse very easily. I know you can find a .357 with a 2 inch barrel but that may not be the best choice. I am thinking that something in the area of a 3 inch would be good choice. Comments?
As I move into the realm of exercising my 2nd amendment rights I have another question for the more experienced gun owners out there. I am doing everything to the letter of the law (even if I believe that the law is unconstitutional). I am researching handguns for personal protection. Obviously a firearm sitting at home will not do my wife any good if she is threatened. So now the question of the ability to carry a concealed weapon. She is not going to get a gun with a 6 inch barrel into or out of a purse very easily. I know you can find a .357 with a 2 inch barrel but that may not be the best choice. I am thinking that something in the area of a 3 inch would be good choice. Comments?
Stun Gun! I have 2. One I keep in my purse and the other I keep in my desk. Which reminds me, time to recharge. They are inexpensive, make a lot of noise, and are legal to carry (except on an airplane). They will do the job in a pinch and it gives you enough time to get out of harms way.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue Apr 13 2010, 07:02AM
If, and I do mean IF, she can (and you too) get a CCW, for her a .380 is a good choice for carry in a purse, but for stopping power a 3" is a great choice in a 38/357, more kick but if needed your adrenalin will be pumping so it's good.
In san berdo it is easier to get your ccw but still a good wait, I hear it is a year to get. I'll be looking in to it soon.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed Apr 14 2010, 08:23AM
Found what appears to be a good buy on a Mossberg 500a. Big Five for $269.00 good through this Sunday.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Apr 15 2010, 11:06PM
I will be putting my money down tomorrow on a Mossberg 500a. This will act as our home defense weapon that hopefully will never be needed.
While I have some shooting experience, my wife has none at all. I figure to burn up a fair number of shells as we both work with the gun. I can find a very good buy on smaller birdshot shells. I am thinking this is the way to go at first. I want my wife to be able to load up and shoot accurately twice in a short time period. My goal is to get 4 shots off very quickly in minimal time. Any problem with using #7 or #8 at 1180 fps for the learning experience?
I intend to keep it ready for use with #4 buckshot with a velocity of 1500+ fps. Your input greatly appreciated.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Apr 16 2010, 05:54AM
Your choices for practice are fine to get your spouse accustomed to the weapon. I would suggest that you also let her get accustomed to whatever rounds you decide to keep the 500 loaded with.
#4 and even #6 are not bad choices for home defense loads, even if the perp. is wearing a heavy jacket, they will do the job.
Below is a chart that lists the sizes of the individual projectiles and their count per ounce.
Below is a link to Hornady's buckshot sizing.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Apr 16 2010, 07:33AM
Thanks for the reply! I have been doing a good deal of internet reading, however I do not know what or whom to trust. You know, in all my years of education I never heard this subject mentioned!
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Fri Apr 16 2010, 10:56AM
SoCalMan, if you go to Wal_Mart and buy the "Target" rounds they are around $24 for 100 shells of 12ga. They don't have the kick so they are great for learning. They still will go around 1200fps, just won't travel as far. If you ever want to go shooting over near the Mistubishi plant let me know, I would be happy to show you shotgun saftey/practice.
Good luck, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Apr 16 2010, 05:25PM
Rod, after my 10 day waiting period is up, I may give you a call. Why is it called a 10 day period when it is really 11?
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Apr 16 2010, 05:38PM
Socalman wrote ...
Rod, after my 10 day waiting period is up, I may give you a call. Why is it called a 10 day period when it is really 11?
Rod, after my 10 day waiting period is up, I may give you a call. Why is it called a 10 day period when it is really 11?
10 days for a shotgun?
Heck, in OreGUN we don't even have a waiting period for handguns, nor do you need a handgun safety certificate, just photo ID that proves that you are a resident of the state, do the instant background check, pay for it and take it home.
But then our stores usually have a wide selection of AR-15s behind the counter as well, available to take home today...
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Fri Apr 16 2010, 05:55PM
Luna wrote ...
10 days for a shotgun?
Heck, in OreGUN we don't even have a waiting period for handguns, nor do you need a handgun safety certificate, just photo ID that proves that you are a resident of the state, do the instant background check, pay for it and take it home.
But then our stores usually have a wide selection of AR-15s behind the counter as well, available to take home today...
Socalman wrote ...
Rod, after my 10 day waiting period is up, I may give you a call. Why is it called a 10 day period when it is really 11?
Rod, after my 10 day waiting period is up, I may give you a call. Why is it called a 10 day period when it is really 11?
10 days for a shotgun?
Heck, in OreGUN we don't even have a waiting period for handguns, nor do you need a handgun safety certificate, just photo ID that proves that you are a resident of the state, do the instant background check, pay for it and take it home.
But then our stores usually have a wide selection of AR-15s behind the counter as well, available to take home today...
Nice!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:16PM
Socalman wrote ...
Rod, after my 10 day waiting period is up, I may give you a call. Why is it called a 10 day period when it is really 11?
Rod, after my 10 day waiting period is up, I may give you a call. Why is it called a 10 day period when it is really 11?
if you really wanted to push the issue they would have to give it to you at the end of ten -24 hour days, just make sure you got there after your 240 hours are up, not 239H 58 min.
I use to bust the chops of my FFL when he changed it to 11 days but he said nobody knows how to count so 1 extra day to keep the DOJ of his back. I still got mine on the 10th day, I just watched the time.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:21PM
Oden wrote ...
Nice!
Nice!
Almost TOO nice when you see something that you WANT...
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:32PM
Luna wrote ...
Almost TOO nice when you see something that you WANT...
Oden wrote ...
Nice!
Nice!
Almost TOO nice when you see something that you WANT...
THAT would be my problem. "I'll take that and 2,000 rounds please, hurry!"
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:40PM
Oden wrote ...
THAT would be my problem. "I'll take that and 2,000 rounds please, hurry!"
Luna wrote ...
Almost TOO nice when you see something that you WANT...
Oden wrote ...
Nice!
Nice!
Almost TOO nice when you see something that you WANT...
THAT would be my problem. "I'll take that and 2,000 rounds please, hurry!"
Obviously you know the drill... "Keep shopping honey..."
And I also have a neighbor RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET who is selling an AR - I keep trying to avoid him until I'm good and sure that he has "re-homed" that boy...
Uuugh!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:43PM
Luna wrote ...
Obviously you know the drill... "Keep shopping honey..."
And I also have a neighbor RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET who is selling an AR - I keep trying to avoid him until I'm good and sure that he has "re-homed" that boy...
Uuugh!
Oden wrote ...
THAT would be my problem. "I'll take that and 2,000 rounds please, hurry!"
Luna wrote ...
Almost TOO nice when you see something that you WANT...
Oden wrote ...
Nice!
Nice!
Almost TOO nice when you see something that you WANT...
THAT would be my problem. "I'll take that and 2,000 rounds please, hurry!"
Obviously you know the drill... "Keep shopping honey..."
And I also have a neighbor RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET who is selling an AR - I keep trying to avoid him until I'm good and sure that he has "re-homed" that boy...
Uuugh!
Yeah, I want one of those too, but don't want to deal with the top-loading issue.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:49PM
Ca. gun laws suck!!!!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Fri Apr 16 2010, 06:56PM
bkap wrote ...
Ca. gun laws suck!!!!!!!
Ca. gun laws suck!!!!!!!
Yes they do x 2!
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Fri Apr 16 2010, 10:21PM
The gun laws hear in Az aren't to tough to deal with. We do not need a concealed weapon permit to carry a concealed weapon. need a hand gun, walk in a buy it, an walk out with it. BSF
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sat Apr 17 2010, 06:05AM
Those of us that live in the People's Socialist Republic of Mexifornia AKA California already know our gun laws suck, stop pouring liquid Drano on the wound.
Seriously, I have never understood why after you purchase your first firearm, you still have to wait the 10 days for each subsequent firearm purchase.
Are they saying it takes them that long to process your paperwork because they can no longer use the "cool off period" excuse for the 10 day delay.
I know, I know, quit my bitching and move to a more Constitution friendly state!
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Apr 17 2010, 03:05PM
Another question about ammo for 12 gauge. AS i look online, I see the following: 12ga 2 3/4 1.5oz #8. I understand all the numbers except the oz. Is that the total weight of the shot load? Once again, what load would you suggest for my wife to first shoot? I don't want her to have her first 12ga shot put her on her a$$. I am guessing a 2 3/4 #8 or 9 with the slowest muzzle velocity?
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Apr 18 2010, 07:10AM
Your right, the "oz." number is the the total weight of the shot in a shotshell.
As for light recoil shotshells, there are some specialized shotshells available but they are harder to find and considerably more expensive them the standard target load shotshells. Below are some examples:
Remington [Click Here]
Winchester [Click Here]
I would look for the combination of the lightest load and lowest velocity (FPS) available and pick up a slip-on recoil pad. Butler Creek [Click Here], Limb Saver [Click Here] and Pachmyr [Click Here] have slip-on models for your Mossberg 500.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Apr 18 2010, 09:00PM
BSF sent me this link. I have heard of 2 gauge but never seen one.
I have fired the 45-70 and it is a cannon, but the shell looks like a 22 compared to this.
The 45-70 moves so slow that you can see it throw pine needles in the air if fired along the ground but can almost blow a tree apart with it's punch. I tore a 2 foot square hole in the back of a wood boat after hitting the keel
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Apr 22 2010, 10:59PM
I have been searching for what I believe are good prices on 12 gauge ammo. I think this is a good site, cheaperthandirt.com Of course you need the www in front of it. I ordered several different boxes of light loads. Any one else have experience with this online site?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Apr 23 2010, 04:07AM
if your still looging for a shotgun, you can't go wrong with this one.
great for upland game birds
I guess it would work O.K. in home protection also
[Click Here]
seriously this is one bill we have to stop from passage. I would hope it would be thrown out on constitutional grounds Immediatly
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Deb Doodah, Fri Apr 23 2010, 05:27AM
Had a friend suggest a website for ammo and thought I would share. [Click Here]
Not sure about their prices, but take a look and see if they have anything you need
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Apr 23 2010, 04:40PM
[quote]
if your still looging for a shotgun, you can't go wrong with this one.
great for upland game birds
I guess it would work O.K. in home protection also
How would it work on Big Bear squirrels that are eating my wife's flowers?
Actually I am waiting for my 11 day waiting period to be over and I pick up my Mossberg 500a.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Apr 23 2010, 04:55PM
bills grandson wrote ...
seriously this is one bill we have to stop from passage. I would hope it would be thrown out on constitutional grounds Immediatly
[Click Here]
seriously this is one bill we have to stop from passage. I would hope it would be thrown out on constitutional grounds Immediatly
[Click Here]
I would think it should be overturned but the article says that 4 other states have passed such laws already. NO mention in the article if any contistitutional challenges are pending.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Apr 23 2010, 07:03PM
Elderly Woman Takes on Burglar [Click Here]
...and the police reload her gun!
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sat Apr 24 2010, 02:46AM
I'm in love!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Apr 24 2010, 07:26AM
YES MAM!!!
This is why people need to have a gun to protect themselfs and use them!!
Thank you Officers for reloading it for her.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Apr 24 2010, 08:11AM
I will pick up my Mossberg 12ga. on Wednesday. I have ordered 6 different boxes of shells and they should arrive early in the week. I have hearing and vision protection. I think all I will need are cleaning supplies. I am seeking your input, Should I just get a complete kit? Buy the supplies individually? Any brands you suggest? Any brands or items to avoid?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Apr 24 2010, 08:28AM
Socalman wrote ...
I will pick up my Mossberg 12ga. on Wednesday. I have ordered 6 different boxes of shells and they should arrive early in the week. I have hearing and vision protection. I think all I will need are cleaning supplies. I am seeking your input, Should I just get a complete kit? Buy the supplies individually? Any brands you suggest? Any brands or items to avoid?
I will pick up my Mossberg 12ga. on Wednesday. I have ordered 6 different boxes of shells and they should arrive early in the week. I have hearing and vision protection. I think all I will need are cleaning supplies. I am seeking your input, Should I just get a complete kit? Buy the supplies individually? Any brands you suggest? Any brands or items to avoid?
1st Hopps #9 great stuff, do it outside as your boss, ie wife, may not like the smell,
and get a kit for shotguns, that has a swab, jag, copper bore brush, and patches for a 12 gauge. That should get you going, you'll add more as you go on.Re: Gun ownership
bc, Sat Apr 24 2010, 11:21AM
Here's an old Indian trick: When cleaning a shotgun, crumple up some newspaper and push it through the bore (always breach to muzzle when cleaning) using the cleaning rod. This pushes most/all of the loose detritus out. Then proceed with the usual patches and Hoppe's process.
PS My wife loves the smell of Hoppe's.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Apr 25 2010, 06:10AM
Those officers need to receive a commendation for reloading her gun!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Apr 25 2010, 06:20AM
Pick up my new Glock 21SF on Thursday @ 11:54 AM.
Brand new with three (3) 10 round magazines for $464.20 plus DROS and tax.
Now I need to schedule another shoot date to break it in.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed Apr 28 2010, 09:53PM
I picked up my Mossberg today. Also went to Turners and bought all the cleaning supplies. A nice box from Natchez arrived and I now have 180 little things to put in the gun to make it go boom. Also a nice pair of PINK hearing protectors for the wife!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Apr 29 2010, 07:11AM
For the wife........ OK we belive you
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Apr 29 2010, 08:33AM
Hey, I am very heavy in my shoes and I don't own loafers!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat May 01 2010, 05:07PM
CCW customer stops robbery; [Click Here]
and anotherone; [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat May 01 2010, 05:46PM
"Put di money innah di bag. Always smoke weed. Get high."
And that with a Wal*Mart bag over his head.
F'ing genius!!! It should have worked - I don't see how it possibly could have gone rong!
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat May 01 2010, 09:19PM
I agree Luna, seemed like the perfect crime planned by jeenis....jeenyus.....jeanyus, yeah dats it.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun May 02 2010, 04:13PM
Went shooting this afternoon and put about 100 rounds through the XDm 9. Decided to cycle a few rounds of my self-defense ammo to make sure that it runs through the gun okay and make sure that there aren't no surprises if the need ever arises...
I had two different kinds, one of 'em was +P+ and let me tell ya a little something, you know when ya fire them lil' babies...
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon May 03 2010, 09:29PM
Planning on breaking in the new Mossberg on Saturday at Burro Canyon. Any special points on breaking in a new shotgun? My son is going to bring his SKS and about 80 rounds for fun.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue May 04 2010, 05:55PM
Socalman wrote ...
Planning on breaking in the new Mossberg on Saturday at Burro Canyon. Any special points on breaking in a new shotgun? My son is going to bring his SKS and about 80 rounds for fun.
Planning on breaking in the new Mossberg on Saturday at Burro Canyon. Any special points on breaking in a new shotgun? My son is going to bring his SKS and about 80 rounds for fun.
Bring water, hats, chairs and remember to be safe at all times..
Have a blast.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue May 04 2010, 07:04PM
also the end with the big hole in it points down range
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue May 04 2010, 07:18PM
oh yea, ^ what he said
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed May 05 2010, 01:33PM
BGS, wouldn't that mean you pull the trigger? I always thought you pushed it away. Glad ya warned me.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 05 2010, 02:19PM
to do that right you have to take off your shoe and use a toe
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed May 05 2010, 03:12PM
Wholly WOW!
This is some fine shooting for ya!
[Click Here]
Hotshot sniper in one-and-a-half mile double kill
A BRITISH Army sniper has set a new sharpshooting distance record by killing two Taliban machinegunners in Afghanistan from more than a mile away.
Craig Harrison, a member of the Household Cavalry, killed the insurgents with consecutive shots — even though they were 3,000ft beyond the most effective range of his rifle.
“The first round hit a machinegunner in the stomach and killed him outright,” said Harrison, a Corporal of Horse. “He went straight down and didn’t move.
“The second insurgent grabbed the weapon and turned as my second shot hit him in the side. He went down, too. They were both dead.”...
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed May 05 2010, 04:48PM
Most folks, even very experienced shooters, have no idea all that's involved in that kind of shot. A lot of guessing right is involved; but it's highly educated guessing.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 05 2010, 06:39PM
just some of the things he would have had to figure in where to aim the bullet is that it will fall the same distance in those three seconds as it would had he dropped it. Add in if he was shooting uphill or downhill, the density of the air, possible wind. at that range it could blow different directions during it's flight. Also at what is beyond the reasonable distance of that round it is kind of like throwing a baseball a long way. It will have added fall as it loses power also the normal flight of a bullet is not constant. At different points it may be above or below the straight line just due to it'snature. ( in basic to qualify as as expert you have yo hit at least 37 out of 40 shots on a target the size of a man from about groin up. from distances of 50 to 300 meters with iron sights. I seem to remember longer distances with the m-14. There is also a limited time foreach shot at 50 meters you have to aim into the dirt to hit the target. at the longer range you would have to aim over the target. There are two spots where the bullet will be at the exact spot you aim. everywhere else it is higher or lower. For these fairly short ranges it is fairly easy
most misses during qualifying seemed to be on the 50 meter target
to have even hit the men at all was amazing but to be probably 6 inches low from where he wanted to hit them was better yet. At that distance with a good spotter and the right background he could have wasted a round aiming at something away from the men where he could see the strike he could adjust and have the second kill shot on the way before the first struck. Neither would have had heard the round that killed them even if there were no fighting going on.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri May 07 2010, 08:43PM
CLEANING QUESTION
Way back in the middle of the last century I was taught by my dad and the guys at Camp Bluff Lake (yep, the same one) that you need to clean your gun after every time you use it. I was reading my Mossberg owner's manual tonight and it says "...thorough cleaning of your firearm after every 200 rounds."
Is cleaning of less importance on a shotgun then a rifle? Is it that metallurgy and the propellants are less corrosive these days.
I have always been a person who changed motor oil every 3,000 miles. My last three cars have had 5000 and 7,000 miles in their suggested service schedules supposedly due to better metals and oils. I still change the car oil around 3500 miles.
What is the story on the gun cleaning?
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri May 07 2010, 09:51PM
I think that they meant after every 200 rounds fired and/or prior to storing the weapon, that it should be cleaned.
I had friends that shot in pistol and rifle match that ran the bore brush and a jag/patch through their weapons after every course.
Then again, they hand loaded their match ammo and had their barrels cryogenicaly treated to improve accuracy too.
Aside from the corrosive primers and shellac or lacquer used in cheap ammo, any residue left in the bore, muzzle and action acts as an absorbent for condensation to wreak havoc on your weapon.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri May 07 2010, 10:15PM
the first day I had my ruger 357 single six we took it out to the east end of Baldwin and put 2 boxes through it. Back then I don't know anyone who used ear protection. besides spraying lead out between the cylinder and barrel hitting those narby and firing after dark and seeing the flame belching out It took me a long time to clean it up. Today I would clean it during the shoot.
We went to ronardo's afterwards and I couldn't hear a thing for the loud ringing. It lasted several days. It was an ausome revolver back then. I don't think they even had a 44 mag. then or I would have bought that. Much to heavy for practicle work. I think if I buy another it will be a 9mm
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri May 07 2010, 10:18PM
this is a big one guys they are constantly trying to shut us down. please contact your representative, and maybe a few extra
Bill to Outlaw Open Carry to be Considered on Wednesday, May 12
Please Contact the Members of the Assembly Appropriations Committee Today!
On Wednesday, May 12, the Assembly Appropriations Committee will consider Assembly Bill 1934.
AB1934 is a blatant attack on the self-defense rights of law-abiding Californians. Simply put, this legislation would outlaw the open carrying of a handgun for self-defense.
Please contact the members of the Assembly Appropriations Committee TODAY and strongly voice your opposition to AB1934. Contact information can be found below. Also, please contact your Assembly Member in opposition to this bill. Their contact information can be found here.
Assemblymember Felipe Fuentes - Chair (D-39)
(916) 319-2039
Assemblymember.Fuentes©assembly.ca.gov
Assemblymember Connie Conway - Vice Chair (R-34)
(916) 319-2034
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Assemblymember Tom Ammiano (D-13)
(916) 319-2013
Assemblymember.Ammiano©assembly.ca.gov
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(916) 319-2051
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Assemblymember Nancy Skinner (D-14)
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Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat May 08 2010, 01:47PM
My Mossberg lost its virginity today. I put 21 shells of various size shot, including 1 round of OO buck and my son fired off about a dozen too. She is all nice and clean, lubricated and ready for the next action. We also fired 100 rounds from his SLR 7.62. That thing is pretty darn accurate, we were hitting the target at 200 yards without a scope.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sat May 08 2010, 10:17PM
Where did she loose her virginity? Mitsubishi/Cushenbury, Arrastre #1 or #2 or ?
If you went to either the Cushenbury or Arrastre shooting sites, how bad were the roads leading up to the shooting areas?
I am planning a family shooting outing to one of these sites and I have not been able to find the time to scout the roads. Two of our troop do not have 4X4 or high clearance vehicles so any info on their condition would be greatly appreciated.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun May 09 2010, 08:06AM
RubiJ, we were shooting at Burro Canyon, which is north of Azusa. I am at my home dth. Burro Canyon is a shooting club facility about 10 miles up the road from Azusa. They have 4 areas that are designated for hand gun, rifle, shotgun and I'm not sure what the other one was. Benches and tables etc. Actually a nice place and a short drive for me. The only drawback is the $10 fee. ( Heading up today because the wife wants Mother's Day dinner in Big Bear.)
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Mon May 10 2010, 03:07AM
Thanks, Socalman, I was hoping that Burro Canyon was a Big Bear shooting site that only the locals knew about.
Don't know how long the Burro Canyon site has been around but I shoot a site in the Azusa area that had a dedicated 300 yd range back for members only in the early 80's, maybe it's the same site.
Re: Gun ownership
skypros, Mon May 10 2010, 07:07AM
New Gun show coming to the History Channel
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed May 12 2010, 02:18PM
RubyJ, the range you shot at in the 80's may have been the San Gabriel Valley Gun Club. It was open to non-members, took my son up there once when he was pretty small. It was closed down a few years ago because some developer built homes that could have been in the line of fire. The owners knew when they bought but they won and the gun club closed. It is infamous for being the range where Sirhan Sirhan practiced the day before assassinating Robert F. Kennedy.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed May 12 2010, 05:15PM
I remember there was a rang that was quite a way up and in a narrow canyon. Don't remember if you drove in or had to walk. I don't remember very much parking on the road It was above where the roads split off but I don't remembr on which fork it was
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed May 12 2010, 08:42PM
I used to shoot in Burro Canyon in the 60's and early 70's. There wasn't any "range" there then. Hiking way up that canyon led to some good hunting spots, but a lot of really steep and hard to navigate terrain.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat May 15 2010, 06:23PM
Anyone here into reloading 12 ga. shotgun shells? I would be happy to donate my used 2 3/4" shells. Send me a PM if you want them. First answer gets them.
Re: Gun ownership
Deb Doodah, Sat May 15 2010, 08:31PM
The boys went to the Sportsmans Club today to do a little target shooting. They said it was nice and only $8. Just in case anyone is interested.
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Sun May 16 2010, 06:59PM
Debbie Dooooo wrote ...
The boys went to the Sportsmans Club today to do a little target shooting. They said it was nice and only $8. Just in case anyone is interested.
The boys went to the Sportsmans Club today to do a little target shooting. They said it was nice and only $8. Just in case anyone is interested.
If you become a member, the price is only $5
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Mon May 17 2010, 10:56PM
Stoped at the local gun store the other day to pick up some amo, an while I was their I asked about some exploding targets. For $20 bucks I got enough Tannerite to make a dozen. pretty neat stuff makes a hella of a bang. check it out, go to google an put in tannerite or exploding targets. you can have it mail ordered. BSF
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Tue May 18 2010, 06:52AM
that stuff is so cool! and it's legal too! it will not go bang unless hit with enough force so if you drop it no bang.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue May 18 2010, 01:40PM
Sounds like fun!
Re: Gun ownership
TIREGUY, Tue May 18 2010, 02:00PM
I haven't read all of the 79 previous pages. But I must comment.
Cars are deadly weapons. They kill people everyday (or should I say people kill people with them). Does that warrant taking them away from the general law abiding legal citizens of our country? No.
Proper training is a must for owning a gun. Just like driving a car. You should be able to own and carry guns with the proper training.
If you make owning a gun illegal then the only people armed will be cops and criminals. If criminals know that the general public is unarmed then that will embolden them. If a criminal knows that any one of these guys standing here in the 7/11 they are about to rob then it just might be a deterrent.
Cops and law abiding citizens need to work together. The criminals are the bad element not the weapons.
I was just out in Arizona over the weekend. I was surprised to find that now in AZ you can carry a loaded concealed weapon. NO PERMIT NEEDED. Ak and VT also have followed suit with this.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun May 23 2010, 10:57AM
working on it, wait.....
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun May 23 2010, 11:04AM
Ok let's try this again.
Gun safty is very important to me and 99.999999% of gun owners.
Please if you own a gun teach your family how to safly handle them. remember a gun is always loaded and should be handled as such, to always point it in a safe direction and to know what is behind what you are going to shoot at.
Be safe out there and lets enjoy the sports of target shooting and hunting.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon May 24 2010, 06:33PM
Anyone have any experience with the .327 federal? In the reading I've done it seems to fall between the 9mm and .357 in stopping power with much less recoil then the .357. For practice you can also use the regular .32 cartridge. The one down side I see is that at the present time only 3 makers for the ammo.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon May 24 2010, 06:36PM
Yes I own 2 well my daughter took control of one so I guess I have one now.
I love it!
She uses .32 mags in hers and i use full power .327 magnums in mine.
If you want to try it out let me know.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue May 25 2010, 10:54PM
I am sure the gun owners here know that come 2011 our laws regarding ammo sales will change and not for the better. I have been ordering from an online service (Cheaperthandirt.com) and they now have a notice that as of Jan. 2011 they will not ship to California.
I am beginning to look for 38 ammo to use in the 357 (haven't bought it yet, still seeking best price) and would like input from more knowledgeable people here about various brands and loads for practice and home defense. I will probably use 357 for home defense or possibly +P loads.
Next question, what is 38 S & W and can it be used in a 357?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue May 25 2010, 11:24PM
38 ammo can be fired in 357. 357 ammo cannot be fired in 38
S & W stands for Smith & Wesson.
Not sure what exactly you are asking about. Ammunition?, or a pistol?
In most peoples mind 38 referes to the old 2 inch revolver that cops used to carry untill they began to switch to semi automatics
I think today if I were looking I would buy either a 9mm, or a 45 Glock or a similar quality automatic. S&W has always stood for quality
In my .380 I have a mixed load of hollowp oint and reuglar lead. would probably mix in teflon if I had them. Armor piercing would be nice if it were available ? but .380 would be a little light.
It is a little tough to switch ammo on the fly so better in my mind to put everything on target hoping one will sink in
hollow points will really ruin their day. There are all kinds of things to do to ammo to increase mortality. mercury, dum-dum's. All not needed as much as in the old days as they sell ammo for almost any use today
on your shotgun an old trick was to cut most of the way through the shell near the wad to allow the entirefrot half of the shell to leave the barrell to make a tighter pattern, or even enter the tarket befor emitting pellets. But you can also buy slugs for the shotgun
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Wed May 26 2010, 07:36AM
S&W .38 revolver is similar in size to a 9mm but different case .38 specials (longer brass case) can be shot in a .357 .380 is for semi-automatics and then there is a regular .38 that is used in older guns that is short or long.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed May 26 2010, 08:12AM
I have been buying from two online places;
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
If you look online on these two sites you can find different sales on .38's, also you can find different "in stock" all the time. They don't have bad prices if you look. Also, they send me $10 coupons all the time.
Little known fact; if you are desperate for a box of 38's, the Butcher Block that is in Lucerne Valley on the main road has a few boxes once in a while (they sell ammo). A few weeks ago I bought a box there and it was $21 (which is a few dollars high but in case you are desperate, and no shipping).
I always keep my eyes open for .38s and I will post here if I see a great deal that is in stock.
Good luck ! Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed May 26 2010, 09:03AM
Also it has been planted in my head (scary) that a road trip to AZ, or NV is an alternative to the high price of ammo and a away around the law that is not yet in effect, and if we go to AZ we can show them our support for their wanting to enforce the Federal law!
So if we were to pool our money we could save on gas, food and ammo and get away from the
all we need is a plan.Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed May 26 2010, 09:33AM
bkap wrote ...
Also it has been planted in my head (scary) that a road trip to AZ, or NV is an alternative to the high price of ammo and a away around the law that is not yet in effect, and if we go to AZ we can show them our support for their wanting to enforce the Federal law!
So if we were to pool our money we could save on gas, food and ammo and get away from thewifes (opps did not say that out loud!!!) all we need is a plan.
Also it has been planted in my head (scary) that a road trip to AZ, or NV is an alternative to the high price of ammo and a away around the law that is not yet in effect, and if we go to AZ we can show them our support for their wanting to enforce the Federal law!
So if we were to pool our money we could save on gas, food and ammo and get away from the
all we need is a plan.Hey, you know what? I can do all of that right here, cozy at home in OryGUN, no sales tax either.
C'mon up and visit for a while, its all the rage! Buy some ammo while you are here and I'll show you a great time!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed May 26 2010, 09:48AM
Luny, if you were closer I'd have said we got a place to crash and bud to go use some of the ammo with.
but, AZ is like 3 hours away and you're a day to get there and we want instant gratification. Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed May 26 2010, 10:40AM
I go to Az. 2 or 3 times a year to visit my dad and some friends. I'll let everyone know when I go next (won't be for several months). Thanks for the good suggestion there !
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed May 26 2010, 10:48AM
Here is a great site with great info on everything about guns and ammo !!!
[Click Here]
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed May 26 2010, 12:14PM
Good site Rod, but remember it is writen by shooters who may stretch the truth
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed May 26 2010, 01:16PM
True, but don't forget shooters are like fisherman
S T R E T C H I N G . . . . . . . . . .
:-) Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed May 26 2010, 01:17PM
80-Year-Old Chicago Man Kills Armed Home Invader
An 80-year-old Chicago man shot and killed an armed man who broke into his two-story house in a pre-dawn home invasion Wednesday on the city's West Side.
At about 5:20 a.m., the homeowner and his wife, also in her 80s, discovered the intruder entering their home by a back door. In a struggle at their doorstep, the intruder fired his revolver but was struck in the chest and died of his wound, police said.
"It's a good thing they had a gun, or they might be dead," said Curtis Thompson, who lives next door to the couple, the Chicago Sun-Times reported.
Neighbors described the elderly couple, who both walk with canes, as pillars of the community in Garfield Park, where home invasions have been all too frequent.
Their neighbor, Shaquite Johnson, told MyFoxChicago that the two are "heroes" for fighting off the attacker — and that the shooting means there is "one less criminal" walking the streets.
"They don't bother no one, so why would anyone do that to them?" she said.
Relatives of the couple told the Sun Times that the man is an Army veteran, his wife a former nurse. Police said neither the man nor the woman was injured in the attack.
The assailant, who was described by police as being in his 30s, was found slumped on the back doorstep of the couple's house, removed four hours after the shooting, the Sun Times reported.
No charges have been filed against the homeowner, but Chicago currently has a statute outlawing the possession of handguns. Its legality is currently being decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.
A high-profile Chicago attorney has already stepped forward offering to represent the man pro bono if he faces charges for possessing a weapon.
"Self defense isn't just a right, it's a duty," said attorney Joel Brodsky. "If this man is prosecuted for saving his own life it's not just a travesty, it's justice turned inside out."
Its crazy that the guy would probably be DEAD if he didn't break the unconstitutional, unAMERICAN law prohibiting him from possessing a handgun in his own home.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu May 27 2010, 08:52AM
bills grandson wrote ...
38 ammo can be fired in 357. 357 ammo cannot be fired in 38
S & W stands for Smith & Wesson.
Not sure what exactly you are asking about. Ammunition?, or a pistol?
38 ammo can be fired in 357. 357 ammo cannot be fired in 38
S & W stands for Smith & Wesson.
Not sure what exactly you are asking about. Ammunition?, or a pistol?
I suppose I should have been more clear. My question was about .38 ammunition. I plan on buying the 357 revolver but use the 38 ammo for practice. What brand or line within the brand has been the best value. A box of 50 that sells for $10 might sound good but if you have 8 duds it certainly isn't a good deal.
the other point I was trying to make is that purchasing of ammo will be much more difficult in Calif. in 2011, so why not stock up now?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu May 27 2010, 09:32AM
SoCal, every time i stock up i go shooting, so my stock gets low!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu May 27 2010, 09:48AM
most ammo I have ever bought has been good quality.
The only exception has been in 22 caliber. I have learned to buy the best name I could.
. I would shoot mostly 357 so you can get used to it. At least at first
You might find someone who reloads.
We ran into some guys at cactus flats and I bought some shells for my 357 from them. I am careful to keep some around. I have no idea what they put in those things but it is like a cannon with them. Could be c-4 for all I know. but it sure packs a punch
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu May 27 2010, 08:01PM
got an email from a friend who's wife works in the LA DA's office, she sent him this;
Just letting my friends know.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun May 30 2010, 05:18PM
Is there shotgun shooting at the BBVSportsman's Club? I am not into skeet, just want to check on some various loads with Mr. Mossberg. Plan to go over at 10 AM Monday.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue Jun 01 2010, 02:16PM
Went up to the BBV Sportsman's club range yesterday. It appears to be pretty good. Target lines at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. No shotgun shooting except for trap and I was not prepared for trap as I had a wide variety of loads with me so I did not shoot. Covered benches for shooting and a small store to buy ammo that is not overpriced for Cali retail. The supply is somewhat limited but the most common ammo is there. The cost to shoot if you are a member is $5, 8 if you are a non-member. A year's membership is $35.00 and allows you to take a family member for the club price. I will return when I have either me old .22 single shot or a new revolver to work with. Also NO STEEL CORE AMMO ALLOWED per the US Forest Service.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Tue Jun 01 2010, 02:30PM
Socalman, if you ask them they will let you shoot (test out) a few rounds of shotgun in between the trap shooting. I've done it and I've seen a few others do it. Just tell them you want to test out your shotgun and a few rounds, they are pretty nice there.
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Tue Jun 01 2010, 10:39PM
Okay, I know the .22 is not a good choice for self defense/home protection. However, if one ONLY has the .22 around what round should be loaded? Should it be the round with the greatest weight or highest speed? If you look at many .45 loads the the speed is often in the area of 850fps but that is one large piece of metal that stops the attacker. I have seen some 22LR with a weight of 65 gr versus the typical low 30's weights.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 02 2010, 06:54AM
HP is the best round and a 22 is better then nothing, for one reason it has light recoil so you can get moree shots off on target faster.
And remember a 22 can kill so don't discount it as a HD round
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed Jun 02 2010, 10:37AM
I like these:
CCI "Stinger" 32-gr. or Remington "Yellow Jacket" 33-gr. hollowpoints
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 02 2010, 11:58AM
Yes CCI is good, and they have a higher power one too, 1600 fps, they are great!! with a little kick
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Jun 02 2010, 12:47PM
22's are a lethal round. if you have the right pistol can be silenced to just a whisper. Choice of many low man powered teams to silence the enemy quickly and quietly. Suffice it to say that a round in the head will bounce around much easier then a larger round that may go through and do less damage.
professional killers use them for the same reason
don't over analize things. When it comes down to it all the numbers go out the window and it becomes very simple.
it all comes down to
They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue"
Isn't that just like a censored (italian)? Brings a knife to a gun fight."
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Wed Jun 02 2010, 01:41PM
I love my 22s. Easy to shoot. Fun. Good plinkers.
Never hope I need to use one in a "situation". I still like 9mm though... and the Russian canon.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Jun 02 2010, 02:34PM
I think that CCI now call them "segmented hollow points", these rounds break up into three seperate parts causing a lot of internal damage.
Back when they were known as "Quik Shoks" (?) I made the mistake of shooting a ground squirrel with them from Ruger 10/22 and let's just say that the squirrel's head had seen better days!
I can only imagine what two or three well placed shots would do to a perp.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Jun 02 2010, 04:47PM
Do any of y'alls like Nosler boolits? Well...they had a MAJOR malfunction at their plant here in Bend this afternoon...
Fire, explosion reported at Nosler in Bend
Bend Police and fire officials are on the scene of a fire and explosion at Nosler Inc. A company official said no one was hurt, and all employees are accounted for. Police are asking people to avoid the area surrounding the company, at 107 S.W. Columbia St.
The fire started around 2:15 p.m.
No further details are available at this time.
Amazing that nobody was hurt!!!
Click to Enlarge.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Jun 02 2010, 04:51PM
BEND, Ore. -- An explosion and fire rocked a portion of the Nosler Inc. bullet manufacturing plant in southwest Bend Wednesday afternoon, prompting evacuation and closure of streets in the area; despite a blast felt for several blocks, all 100 workers apparently were accounted for.
The fire was reported initially as a smoke report shortly after 2 p.m. at the facility at 107 SW Columbia St., which was evacuated. By 2:15 p.m., there were reports that an explosion had destroyed part of the building. But by 3 p.m., reports from the scene were that all workers on scene at the time of the blast had been accounted for.
A company spokesman said he was told that around 2 p.m., work was under way in the ballistics tunnel, a testing area for ammunition, when there was a flash, followed moments later by a massive explosion.
Fire crews were reporting no flames visible and that all were out of the plant, though one person reportedly suffered smoke inhalation and a thorough search was planned, to be sure all got out.
Bend Fire did a personnel callback to ensure adequate staffing and called in Redmond Fire for mutual aid to cover a station with an ambulance.
About 100 people work in the Nosler facility, a company founded in the late 1940s by John Nosler. Witnesses said there was a flash in the ballistics-testing tunnel area of the facility, and everybody apparently got out before the blast hit.
One nearby resident described the blast as like "feeling a bomb inside your house." After her house shook violently, she looked out to see a huge plume of orange smoke that she couldn't see through.
Barb Gonzalez at first thought it was an earthquake, when her house was jolted by the blast. "This one felt like a 5.5 (magnitude) jolt", said the survivor of the 1994 Northridge quake. Her second thought was an explosion.
Bella Blackney recounted: "All of a sudden the house shakes, and the glass is rumbling in all the windows, visibly - all the glass shook. Really intense. For a second I thought a bomb went off."
Bend Fire called in a special operations team to go through the rubble, which apparently buried at least one evacuated worker's car in debris.
People several blocks away said the explosion rattled their office windows.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 02 2010, 05:46PM
Holly cow!
I wonder if it was a build up of unburnt powder in the test tunnel? At the indoor range I use DTH every now and then there would be a small flash fire on the floor of the range from the unburnt powder.
Re: Gun ownership
bc, Wed Jun 02 2010, 05:52PM
Are there still CCI Mini-Mags?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 02 2010, 05:53PM
yes, the "shorts" are great plinkers
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Jun 03 2010, 05:34PM
get involved 2 alerts from NRA on California laws
one to register rifles/ And the no open carry law is moving quickly.
call, write letter's and vote
Long Gun Registration One Step Closer to Law in California
Your State Senator Needs to Hear Your Opposition to
This and Two Other Anti-Gun Bills Immediately!
Today, Thursday, June 3, the California Assembly passed Assembly Bill 1810 and Assembly Bill 2223. Both bills now join Assembly Bill 1934 in the Senate.
AB1810 was passed by a 42-29 vote. In short, this bill would establish a registration system, similar to the one currently in place for handguns, for all newly-acquired long guns. Under AB1810, the make, model and serial number of the firearm as well as the identifying information of the purchaser would be recorded and kept on file by the California Attorney General's office.
If AB1810 were enacted, violent criminals would continue doing what they do now - obtain firearms through illegal means. This bill would not decrease crime but will rather have disastrous effects on the already financially unstable Golden State. AB1810 would impose additional burdens on California's taxpayers to maintain the registration system as well as on the state's licensed firearms dealers, small businesses who already deal with extensive business requirements.
One simply needs to look at Canada, a nation with draconian firearms registration, to see the results - billions in cumulative administrative costs, annual cost overruns, no clear substantiation of public safety benefits, unjust prosecution, and a bureaucratic complexity that daunts those willing to comply. Ironically, California is considering a new registration scheme as Canada is considering doing away with its system.
AB2223, passed by a vote of 46-28, would outlaw the use of lead shot when shooting or hunting in state-run wildlife management areas. There is no scientific evidence justifying this proposed ban. It is intended only to discourage hunting in California and that is why the Humane Society of the United States is in full support.
Simply put, AB1934 would outlaw the open carrying of a handgun for self-defense. This bill is a blatant attack on the self-defense rights of law-abiding Californians. It is a knee-jerk reaction by anti-gun legislators to punish citizens for engaging in the legal act of openly carrying an unloaded handgun. In reality, the open carrying of firearms by law-abiding citizens is forced by California's unfair concealed carry law, which allows some citizens from some counties to receive a permit to carry, while their neighbors in the next county are denied that basic right for political, not public safety, reasons.
These bills are very serious threats to the rights of California's law-abiding gun owners and must be defeated. Please contact your State Senator NOW and urge them to oppose AB1810, AB2223, and AB1934. Contact information can be found [Click Here]
Bill to Outlaw Open Carry Passes Assembly, Heads to Senate
Please Contact Your State Senator Today!
Yesterday, Tuesday, June 1, the California Assembly passed Assembly Bill 1934 by a vote of 41-25. AB1934 now heads to Senate for consideration.
Simply put, AB1934 would outlaw the open carrying of a handgun for self-defense. This bill is a blatant attack on the self-defense rights of law-abiding Californians.
AB1934 is a knee-jerk reaction by anti-gun legislators to punish citizens for engaging in the legal act of openly carrying an unloaded handgun. In reality, the open carrying of firearms by law-abiding citizens is forced by California's unfair concealed carry law, which allows some citizens from some counties to receive a permit to carry, while their neighbors in the next county are denied that basic right for political, not public safety, reasons.
Please contact your State Senator TODAY and respectfully urge them to oppose AB1934. Contact information for your Assembly Member can be found
.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Jun 04 2010, 04:08AM
Its time to hold a rally on Sacramento with all participants holding pitchforks, buckets of tar and bags of feathers to tell these "Adam Henrys" how we feel about their performance!
What are doing do next, outlaw pitchforks, tar and feathers!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Jun 04 2010, 06:58AM
The strange thing is they can't do anything to save themselves if there ever was a revolution.
I heard a story a long time ago that in a civil unrest (revolution) everyone armed themselves with what they could. Down to a spoon. With that spoon and the few real weapons you went into battle. As it goes on you find a better weapon and pass the spoon to someone with nothing. Weapons become available as time goes on.
It is impossible that the "masters" can defend themselves once the balance has tipped.
The concern is what happens after the revolution?
In today's world I don't think we could survive it.
Election day is next Tuesday. the ballot makes a lot more sense then the bullet.
I will sit down with over an inch of material to make my choices today.
I have put it off so long I will have to carry it to a voting site instead of the mail.
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Mon Jun 07 2010, 09:22AM
Thought you guys would enjoy this picture of the latest motorcycle seat in Texas.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Sat Jun 12 2010, 08:48AM
Anyone want to go to the range (Big Bear) today and shoot some trap ??? I havn't been there yet this year. I'm going in around 10am today ! Let me know.....
Rod
Follow up: Went and had a great time. shot 3 rounds, 18, 9, 19 ... don't know what happened the 2nd round, I think I was intimidated by a big-bosomed woman (@) (@) that was hitting almost all of the clays. Go figure.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sat Jun 12 2010, 10:49AM
wish I could make it but to far.
You guys might look into joining the sportsmans club. It used to be a really good thing. I think it has lost a lot of members over the years. They did a lot of projects to help wildlife over the years, and threw a great picnic every year.
Chuck Thomas would donate the meat from his hunts. It was always a great time. They gave out fishing trophy's for the biggest fish caught. I won two on year for Bass, and Bluegill
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Jun 12 2010, 04:04PM
I have been thinking about joining the Sportsman's Club when I get up at the end of the month. My brother was a member while he was living in BBC.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Jun 12 2010, 04:59PM
Socalman, I will be joining too, then I won't have to drive down to the BLM on the weekends unless there is a lot of us going.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed Jun 16 2010, 04:31PM
Anyone have experience with the Taurus 625? It is also called the "Tracker" It is a 7 shot .357. I know Taurus had some problems in the past, but from what I have read they are doing a great job recently. I am considering this firearm with a 4 inch barrel. Apparently the recoil is barely noticed with regular 38's and is still quite mild with .38+P.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 16 2010, 04:59PM
Nope but I have an 8 shot S&W 357, still kicks but is nice to shoot.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Wed Jun 16 2010, 06:03PM
I have a 7 shot S&W with a 6" barrel, it has a small kick, but is very comfortable and accurate, or maybe it's me
A lot of fun to shoot!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 16 2010, 07:59PM
sounds like we need to get together and pistol wip some paper.....................
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Jun 16 2010, 08:55PM
I have a 19+1 shot Springfield...
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Jun 17 2010, 06:59AM
as*Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Jun 17 2010, 07:36AM
I won't be up the hill again until the end of the month. I leave tomorrow for some concerts in D.C., returning the 24th. Probably during the week to start some paint prep work. Would love to do some shooting.
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Thu Jun 17 2010, 05:29PM
The best of all worlds: Marine's, Golf and Guns. [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Jun 19 2010, 07:21PM
want want want WANT!
[Click Here]
WickedLasers Unveils "Lightsaber" Powerful Enough to Set People on Fire
Jason Mick (Blog) - June 10, 2010 3:23 PM
WickedLasers Spyder III Pro Arctic Laser (Source: WickedLasers)
The product comes with a warning that the weapons-grade laser can burn and/or blind people or animals. (Source: WickedLasers)
The laser retails for a mere $200 an is perhaps a good self-defense tool in urban areas. (Source: WickedLasers)It goes without saying that this product is not safe for children
With recent advances in lasers, many have fantasized about creating "real life lightsabers". Many military commanders have fantasized about creating portable blasters along the lines of those portrayed in fictional workers like Star Trek and Star Wars. The Spyder III Pro Arctic laser from WickedLasers can be seen perhaps as the culmination of those efforts and perhaps the first consumer laser weapon.
The laser is built with a diode from Casio's new mercury-free Green Slim projectors which ironically have a somewhat blue tint. The laser is rated at 1 watt of power and retails for a mere $200 USD.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Jun 19 2010, 07:23PM
Going to the sportsmans club tomorrow with my daughter for some shooting anyone else going?
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Sat Jun 19 2010, 07:51PM
BKAP, what time you going???
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 20 2010, 09:30AM
hey rod, were going around 10:30 be there about 1-2 hours
Hope to see you there.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 20 2010, 05:24PM
Targets from today, me on left daughter on right.
Spent good time with her!
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Sun Jun 20 2010, 06:26PM
Bkap, I forgot you were there.... I was sooting trap there around 11-12:30 and forgot to look for you. It was a nice day. Maybe next time we can hook up.
Later, Rod
Re: Gun ownership
Mtngoat John⭐, Sun Jun 20 2010, 09:15PM
bkap wrote ...
Targets from today, me on left daughter on right.
Spent good time with her!
Targets from today, me on left daughter on right.
Spent good time with her!
Unfortunately Bkap is dyslexic, good shooting H.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Jun 21 2010, 06:43AM
Mtn.goat John wrote ...
Unfortunately Bkap is dyslexic, good shooting H.
bkap wrote ...
Targets from today, me on left daughter on right.
Spent good time with her!
Targets from today, me on left daughter on right.
Spent good time with her!
Unfortunately Bkap is dyslexic, good shooting H.
I thought that H. was just putting them through the same hole over and over...but Bruce had to make a new hole for every bullet.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:15AM
yea thats right You, I can't hit the same hole twice!!!! Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:20AM
bkap wrote ...
yea thats right You, I can't hit the same hole twice!!!!
yea thats right You, I can't hit the same hole twice!!!! Sheesh, if you're shooting a bad guy, don't you WANT to make fresh new holes?
Awesome shootin' Bruce! We'll get H. with the program soon enuff...
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:21AM
Practice is all she needs, and with time will improve.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:25AM
bkap wrote ...
Practice is all she needs, and with time will improve.
Practice is all she needs, and with time will improve.
No doubt! She can probably out shoot me.
I was just joking that she needs to learn to punch new holes instead of reusing the same bullet holes over and over...
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:31AM
come on down and we'll go out shooting!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Jun 21 2010, 07:41AM
bkap wrote ...
come on down and we'll go out shooting!
come on down and we'll go out shooting!
My gun isn't legal in Commiefornia, silly! C'mon up here and we'll have more fun! We have a great shooting area about 10 mins. from the house.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Jun 22 2010, 10:20PM
California’s Long Gun Registration Bill
Scheduled for a Hearing on Tuesday, June 29
Please Contact the Members of the Senate Public Safety Committee Today!
Assembly Bill 1810 is scheduled to be considered by the Senate Public Safety Committee on Tuesday, June 29.
AB1810 would establish a registration system, similar to the one currently in place for handguns, for all newly-acquired long guns. Under AB1810, the make, model and serial number of the firearm as well as the identifying information of the purchaser would be recorded and kept on file by the California Attorney General’s office.
If AB1810 were enacted, violent criminals would continue doing what they do now – obtain firearms through illegal means. This bill would not decrease crime but will rather have disastrous effects on the already financially unstable Golden State. AB1810 would impose additional burdens on California’s taxpayers to maintain the registration system as well as on the state’s licensed firearms dealers, small businesses who already deal with extensive business requirements.
One simply needs to look at Canada, a nation with draconian firearms registration, to see the results – billions in cumulative administrative costs, annual cost overruns, no clear substantiation of public safety benefits, unjust prosecution, and a bureaucratic complexity that daunts those willing to comply. Ironically, California is considering a new registration scheme as Canada is considering doing away with its system.
Please contact the members of the Senate Public Safety Committee TODAY and strongly voice your opposition to AB1810. Contact information can be found below.
SENATE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE:
State Senator Mark Leno (Chair)
(916) 651-4003
senator.leno©senate.ca.gov
State Senator Dave Cogdill (Vice-Chair)
(916) 651-4014
State Senator Gilbert Cedillo
(916) 651-4022
State Senator Loni Hancock
(916) 651-4009
State Senator Robert Huff
(916) 651-4029
State Senator Darrell Steinberg
(916) 651-4006
State Senator Roderick Wright
(916) 651-4025
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed Jun 23 2010, 01:27PM
I think bkap may have been shooting from 7 yards and the daughter from 50! I agree, fresh holes in bad guys are good, but with the proper placement on shot #1, why waste ammo?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Jun 23 2010, 06:52PM
OK socal! I say you show up there and we have a shoot out!! loser buys the soda!!
Re: Gun ownership
Mtngoat John⭐, Wed Jun 23 2010, 07:23PM
Socalman wrote ...
I think bkap may have been shooting from 7 yards and the daughter from 50! I agree, fresh holes in bad guys are good, but with the proper placement on shot #1, why waste ammo?
I think bkap may have been shooting from 7 yards and the daughter from 50! I agree, fresh holes in bad guys are good, but with the proper placement on shot #1, why waste ammo?
Seven yards? Heck, I've seen him miss from seven feet.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Jun 23 2010, 09:51PM
Keep in mind that most gunfights occur at a range of zero to seven FEET.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Jun 24 2010, 07:00AM
you really want to get in on this MGJ? we have a video of you, remember........
and ....
Oh and I've hit seven feet before, people are just so slow to lift them
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Jun 26 2010, 08:19AM
I am about ready to put my $$ down for a Taurus Tracker .357 with 4" barrel. I would like the same thing in S & W but it is another $150.00. I can see and feel a slight difference (fit, finish, smoothness of trigger & extractor) between the two. When I compared to the Ruger GP 357 the differences just were not evident. The Ruger is about $60 more. From what I have read, Taurus HAD problems in quality some years back but they have been solved. Feedback from the folks here would be appreciated.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Jun 26 2010, 08:55AM
Taurus is ok but one of the best is the S&W if you want to shoot a 686 S&W let me know, or a few other mdls of S&W, Ruger is built like a tank and will not break, a nice trigger job and it is a great deal for the money, as long as you are not buying a Rossi you are doing good, Rossi is only good for tossing in the ocean in my book.
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Sat Jun 26 2010, 10:49AM
Spend the extra money and buy the Smith or Ruger (I'd buy Ruger, but thats just me:)
Taurus just makes copies of everyone elses guns.
They're quality is better than in the past, but I like the real versions, not copies.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Jun 26 2010, 11:22PM
No doubt in my mind the S&W is the best. I felt it was a toss up on the Ruger and Taurus. One aspect of the Taurus I liked over the Ruger was the orange on the front sight, though I suppose I could always use some nail polish. The grip on the Taurus is quite different but I am ambivalent about that, though some reviewers loved the Taurus grip.
On the S&W the trigger was smoother and lighter then either the Ruger or Taurus. In single action the Taurus needed less weight to pull the trigger while in double action I felt it was a little heavier.
If only I could have all 3 guns for a few days and run about 100 rounds through each! Like I said, the S&W seemed the better gun over all, but I am not that sure it was $150 better. Decisions, decisions!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Jun 27 2010, 09:55AM
Anyone notice this in the news??
[Click Here]
My two cents on the previous discussion : Sturdy, strong and METAL. I don't like graphite or composite weapons (for Pistols). I like solid, all metal weapons because they can take a beating and keep on clicking. Well, maybe that should be "capping"
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 27 2010, 12:07PM
Saldana needs to be voted out, she has made an issue of a non-issue. And when talking about it she sounds like she is very uninformed about gun laws.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Jun 27 2010, 07:15PM
EDITORIAL: Gun grabbers treat criminals as victims
Groups appalled at use of concealed firearms in self-defense
The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the Violence Policy Center (VPC) are peddling the notion that concealed-handgun permit holders are a danger to society. Last month, the center released a report claiming that in the past three years, 166 people were killed by holders of concealed-weapon permits. A closer look at the evidence suggests that many of the so-called victims of gun violence were criminals. Because more than 6 million Americans hold permits, it is important to set the record straight.
As one of the most populous states with a right-to-carry law, Florida has the most concealed-handgun permits. Between Oct. 1, 1987, and May 31, the state issued them to 1.8 million individuals. So far, just 167 permits have been revoked over any type of firearms-related violation. Most of those involved trivial, nonviolent infractions. To put that figure into perspective, the annual revocation rate is a minuscule 0.00017 percent, with just three revocations since January 2008. More people are killed every year by falling vending machines than by holders of a concealed-weapon permit.
You wouldn't know that from the rhetoric of the gun-control groups, which portray Florida as a dangerous place to live because of its laws. According to the VPC report, the Sunshine State accounted for 17 of the 96 "killer" permit holders nationwide, far more than any other state.
A recent Fox News investigation shot holes in the study. No charges were ever brought in seven of the Florida cases. One case clearly did not involve a permit holder - the person was, in fact, charged with illegally carrying a concealed handgun. Two cases that are still pending apparently involved self-defense, with one local newspaper account suggesting that the permit holder had a "strong case" to show that he had acted properly. Another case involved the accidental discharge of a firearm. The gun grabbers score all of these incidents as kills, but at least nine of them are examples of right-to-carry laws being used by permit holders to protect themselves and their families.
Three cases did result in "convictions," but they hardly represent clear-cut examples. One involved an accidental discharge and a conviction for involuntary manslaughter. In another case, a convicted felon sparked the incident by confronting the permit holder. According to the prosecutor, the permit holder "was in some way defending himself during an escalating altercation between the men caught on the security video" and that, "People can look at that tape and interpret it two or three different ways." His conviction rested on the question of whether he had done enough to avoid the confrontation.
The Brady Campaign and the Violence Policy Center show their desperation by twisting legitimate examples of self-defense into crimes. The simple fact is that most gun owners are law-abiding citizens. Suggesting that burglars, rapists and other hardened criminals are "victims" of permit holders is a stretch, even for these groups. The real statistics show that America is a safer place thanks to more of its citizens having a right to protect themselves and their families.
© Copyright 2010 The Washington Times, LLC. Click here for reprint permission.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Jun 28 2010, 07:44AM
Supreme Court issued it's decision today on the our rights to keep and own guns. The decision was 5 to 4 in support of our constitutional rights.
This should put many of the anti-gun people to rest with regards to their proposed laws to prevent our rights.
Weeeeeeeee.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Jun 28 2010, 07:47AM
thats good but we still have Californis after us on several cases
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 28 2010, 08:19AM
only the begining, now more work to remove dumb laws
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 28 2010, 10:06AM
this is in response to those that claim guns kill more people then anything else, as a side note unlawfully owned guns (by those that should not have them such as criminals) kill more people then guns owned by law abiding people, and the laws on the books only keep law-abiding citizens from owning guns.
Those law-abiding gun owners have saved many lives by defending themselves and others.
I hope with the ruling handed down today that more will be interested in defending themselves and what they own.
this is just on accidental deaths not drive bys, or planed murder, those will be higher of course.
Firearms are involved in 0.5% of accidental deaths nationally, compared to motor vehicles (37%), poisoning (22%), falls (17%), suffocation (5%), drowning (2.9%), fires (2.5%), medical mistakes (1.7%), environmental factors (1.3%), and pedal cycles (0.7%). Among children: motor vehicles (41%), suffocation (21%), drowning (15%), fires (8%), pedal cycles (2%), poisoning (2%), falls (1.9%), environmental factors (1.5%), firearms (1.1%) and medical mistakes (1%).
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jun 28 2010, 10:19AM
Comments from various boards;
This is the best time in the world to be a Cop or any Law Enforcement Officer. My entire family is made up of Police Officers, and report after report comes out that municipalities, counties, and states, that extend gun ownership and the 2nd Amendment Rights have a DRAMATIC DECREASE in the crime rate.
People need to realize that the Criminals will always have guns, whether they are legal or illegal. (Its just another law the criminals will break!)
When you extend the 2nd Amendment to the Law Abiding Citizens, the crime rate always drops and the criminals will always avoid the gun-toting conservative and target the ignorant peace happy commie liberal.
Enjoy your rights America! Get your CCW Permit Today!
Of *COURSE* the drafters of the US Constitution desired to explicitly give out rights often denied in the 18th Century, especially
the right of Governments to have Armies!!
So they made a Law that the Government shall not deprive the Government of the Right to an Army.
Sure. What an idiotic argument. A Militia is a band of citizens, armed, and with the purpose of guaranteeing FREEDOM. An Army is armed and obedient to the will of their Bosses. Pol Pot had an Army. Adolf Hitler had an Army. Neither had an individual right to keep and bear arms.
The Bill of Rights is intended to apply to individual Americans.
My concern is with the four justices who dissented. Citizens having weapons formed militias to defeat the British. Bearing arms has always been a man’s right! The 2d Amendment was codified to reaffirm that right so no government could confiscate our weapons.
“An Armed Society is a Polite society”
… Hmm … I wonder why?
And this from someone that clearly does not understand what it means;
No offense, but the Constitution was written during a time where everyone felt they had to protect themselves from each other, in order to survive.
It was also written during a time when America was starting to fight for independence from the British in 1812.
If you think Racist violence is alive today, try differentiating between a British Citizen and an American Citizen.
Everyone was gun happy back then, and it eventually started a war between nations, obviously, and 75 years later, it started another war between each other, i.e. Civil War.
The word “live”, was derogatory back then, as it was more common practice to “survive” from each other.
We need to learn from the past, and well, Grow Up and Evolve.
Today, we had built our protection through education, WITHOUT GUNS. It’s been a rough road to build this protection, but so far it works.
People do not need to live in fear within their own neighborhoods anymore.
The Constitution was written to preserve that fear.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Jun 28 2010, 07:15PM
Bmatheny wrote ...
Supreme Court issued it's decision today on the our rights to keep and own guns. The decision was 5 to 4 in support of our constitutional rights.
This should put many of the anti-gun people to rest with regards to their proposed laws to prevent our rights.
Weeeeeeeee.
Supreme Court issued it's decision today on the our rights to keep and own guns. The decision was 5 to 4 in support of our constitutional rights.
This should put many of the anti-gun people to rest with regards to their proposed laws to prevent our rights.
Weeeeeeeee.
I am happy for the victory but it is downright frightening that 4 members of the US Supreme Court voted to allow Chicago to VIOLATE the Constitution of the United States.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Jun 28 2010, 07:36PM
I know it should not be a concern. But is there politics involved where some may vote no that they may do to keep it close on purpose?
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Jun 30 2010, 03:13AM
bkap wrote ...
Comments from various boards;
...
And this from someone that clearly does not understand what it means;
No offense, but the Constitution was written during a time where everyone felt they had to protect themselves from each other, in order to survive.
It was also written during a time when America was starting to fight for independence from the British in 1812.
If you think Racist violence is alive today, try differentiating between a British Citizen and an American Citizen.
Everyone was gun happy back then, and it eventually started a war between nations, obviously, and 75 years later, it started another war between each other, i.e. Civil War.
The word “live”, was derogatory back then, as it was more common practice to “survive” from each other.
We need to learn from the past, and well, Grow Up and Evolve.
Today, we had built our protection through education, WITHOUT GUNS. It’s been a rough road to build this protection, but so far it works.
People do not need to live in fear within their own neighborhoods anymore.
The Constitution was written to preserve that fear.
Comments from various boards;
...
And this from someone that clearly does not understand what it means;
No offense, but the Constitution was written during a time where everyone felt they had to protect themselves from each other, in order to survive.
It was also written during a time when America was starting to fight for independence from the British in 1812.
If you think Racist violence is alive today, try differentiating between a British Citizen and an American Citizen.
Everyone was gun happy back then, and it eventually started a war between nations, obviously, and 75 years later, it started another war between each other, i.e. Civil War.
The word “live”, was derogatory back then, as it was more common practice to “survive” from each other.
We need to learn from the past, and well, Grow Up and Evolve.
Today, we had built our protection through education, WITHOUT GUNS. It’s been a rough road to build this protection, but so far it works.
People do not need to live in fear within their own neighborhoods anymore.
The Constitution was written to preserve that fear.
Unfortunately over my 19+ years of working alongside LEOs, I have run in to way too many LEOs and DAs that express a similar sentiment.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Jul 01 2010, 05:40PM
Mayor Daley of Chicago has proposed the nation's most restrictive gun law ever. Some people will never quit. Here is a link to an article on Yahoo news. It may not be active after a day or two.
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Jul 01 2010, 06:09PM
I can't believe there still is a Mayor Daley. Seems like he has been around forever.
These laws are so stupid. There are plenty of laws on the books already. Just inforce them. and leave everyone else alone.
I think I could agree with a class before owning a weapon. Of course those who have been in military should be excluded since they have been trained.
maybe a test of laws and rights could be given to everyone .
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Wed Jul 07 2010, 09:26AM
Leaving in 5 minutes to go shoot trap across from the Mitsubishi plant if anyone wants to bring a shotgun and try it out I'll be there for a while.....
Rod
9:26am Wed. 7/7/2010
Re: Gun ownership
STAXX, Sun Jul 11 2010, 09:09PM
I almost hit a bear on rt38 comin' up the hill about two weeks ago.
Thinking I might need one of these babies:
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Jul 11 2010, 09:48PM
mgh wrote ...
I almost hit a bear on rt38 comin' up the hill about two weeks ago.
Thinking I might need one of these babies:
[Click Here]
I almost hit a bear on rt38 comin' up the hill about two weeks ago.
Thinking I might need one of these babies:
[Click Here]
Wait, Mr. Bear...lemme dig out my kit and open the pretty yeller box...now I gotta fine the *%$#@ ammo! You're still waiting, right, Mr. Bear? Just another min...
IF it were to ever happen, it would probably be more like this...
[Click Here]
Twig snap alerts dog-walker to charging grizzly
For Soldotna fishing guide Greg Brush, the rare and precious finally arrived -- a summer day off between king and silver salmon seasons.
It was Aug. 2, a little after 11 a.m., when he headed down Dirks Lake Road, a quarter-mile from his home, taking three dogs for some exercise in preparation for hunting season. Brush talked to his animals as they walked past homes on one- to five-acre lots.
The slightest noise -- a twig snapping -- prompted Brush to glance over his shoulder. Less than 20 yards away, a brown bear was charging, "ears back, head low and motorin' full speed.
"Came with zero warning," Brush said. "No woof, no popping of the teeth, no standing up, nothing like what you think."
Brush said he wears a pistol on his walks because bears have chased his dogs in the past.
He drew a Ruger .454 Casull revolver. There was no time to aim, barely time to squeeze the trigger. He's not sure whether he got off two shots or three, but one proved fatal.
"Total luck shot," he said.
"It doesn't get any closer. He slid by me on his chin when I shot him," Brush said. "I was backpedaling as fast as I could. I wasn't even aiming. I tripped over my own feet as I pulled the trigger."
He estimated that the animal weighed 900-plus pounds, and was 15 to 20 years old. It had grass packed in its molars and little fat on its bones.
"It was starving to death and saw an opportunity," Brush said.
The encounter left the fishing guide, in his words, "a wreck -- dry heaving and hyperventilating, with some abdominal cramping."
It also left him with a problem. After state troopers came out to check the bear and determine that the shooting was legitimately in defense of life and property, Brush had to deal with the carcass. The law requires a shooter to skin the animal or take it to a taxidermist.
"So here I am with my wife and with a 10-foot brown bear on the edge of the road."
With the help of four men, he dragged it into a tilt-bed trailer and took it to Soldotna taxidermist Kenny Jones.
A couple of hours later, he returned to the taxidermist to pick up the carcass and deliver it to the dump.
"I never ever thought it would happen to me. It's always some other (guy), right? It totally wiped me out . . . by far the most emotion I have ever felt at once."
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Jul 12 2010, 06:49AM
met with Socalman and let him try some of my toys, I missed the target more then he did,
but had a great time meeting him and talking about guns and family. Hope to do it again soon Re: Gun ownership
Mtngoat John⭐, Mon Jul 12 2010, 07:11AM
bkap wrote ...
OK socal! I say you show up there and we have a shoot out!! loser buys the soda!!
OK socal! I say you show up there and we have a shoot out!! loser buys the soda!!
So, how much soda did socal drink
Re: Gun ownership
STAXX, Mon Jul 12 2010, 09:53AM
Luna.. Thanks cool story! I do hike evenings and alone, with Chloe,
[Click Here] (Bear bait)
I thought law was no gun carrying on federal forest land.
Guess it was just National Parks, and that changed this year:
[Click Here]
Could swear that I've seen signs at trail heads showing the no guns symbol...?
Maybe that was Sequoia / Kings Canyon before the change.
Can I bring a shotgun with me while cutting wood?
Also, would I need a CCW to carry a handgun, or just wear it exposed?
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Jul 12 2010, 10:10AM
Bkap is not being completely truthful, after he did sight adjustment he was nailing that target!
I found the .327 to be a very sweet gun. It would be perfect to train my wife with it using plain old .32. Then have the .327 Fed. magnum loaded for home defense.
One of the items that has caused me to shy away from the .327 is ammo availability, though since Friday night and Sat. morning I checked a number of online sources and could get a decent stock in the home in a few days.
Item #2 with the .327 is availability of the gun. Right now a .327 is made by Taurus, S&W, Reuger and Charter Arms, though only 2 models of the Reuger and one S&W are on the Calif. list of allowed guns. However I know of a store that had the .327 in stock last Wed. I may visit them later this week and take it off their inventory.
Since the gun is now being made by 4 companies that I know of, I think it may stay around. Perhaps the parent company of Federal will allow some other manufacturers to produce the .327 round and that would really be great.
My thanks to bkap, I enjoyed meeting you, and meeting some of your arsenal!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Mon Jul 12 2010, 10:24AM
mgh wrote ...
Luna.. Thanks cool story! I do hike evenings and alone, with Chloe,
[Click Here] (Bear bait)
I thought law was no gun carrying on federal forest land.
Guess it was just National Parks, and that changed this year:
[Click Here]
Could swear that I've seen signs at trail heads showing the no guns symbol...?
Maybe that was Sequoia / Kings Canyon before the change.
Can I bring a shotgun with me while cutting wood?
Also, would I need a CCW to carry a handgun, or just wear it exposed?
Luna.. Thanks cool story! I do hike evenings and alone, with Chloe,
[Click Here] (Bear bait)
I thought law was no gun carrying on federal forest land.
Guess it was just National Parks, and that changed this year:
[Click Here]
Could swear that I've seen signs at trail heads showing the no guns symbol...?
Maybe that was Sequoia / Kings Canyon before the change.
Can I bring a shotgun with me while cutting wood?
Also, would I need a CCW to carry a handgun, or just wear it exposed?
Handgunlaw.us : [Click Here]
California Page from there: [Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
STAXX, Mon Jul 12 2010, 11:36AM
RTFM!
I hate it when that happens.
;-)
Thanks for the links.
peace
mgh
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Jul 16 2010, 08:59AM
I take my Glock Model 30 (.45 ACP) anytime I am in the backcountry. I am one of those that is more apprehensive of the two legged critters that I may encounter than the four legged ones! I also subscribe to "better tried by twelve than carried by six" theory!
My family and I know that a .45 ACP will not stop a bear but we hope that it buys the family some time to get out of harms way and I hope and pray that they are far enough away that they will not be able to see Dad use the last of the ten rounds on himself when the bear has started to maul and eat him!
I would prefer a 12 gauge outfitted with a combination of 3" slugs and 00 buckshot to deal with bears but it just isn't easily concealable unless you buy a SRB (Short Barreled Rifle) or illegally modify one of your own.
I'm already taking my chances by breaking the law while carrying concealed where "open carry" is not permissible, I don't need to compound the criminal offense by pissing off ATF as well!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Wed Aug 04 2010, 12:48AM
Hey Bkap...
Tightening up them groups a little... 19 rounds at 21 feet. Looks like three of 'em kinda got away from me - looks like a flinch problem, no?
BTW, that 10 circle is 2" across.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Aug 05 2010, 08:25AM
Looks good, what were you shooting?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Aug 05 2010, 09:05AM
paper targets.......
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Aug 05 2010, 09:05AM
Socalman wrote ...
Looks good, what were you shooting?
Looks good, what were you shooting?
Springfield XDm-9, WWB (9mm, 115gr FMJ), my standard, semi-affordable practice ammo until I start reloading.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Thu Aug 05 2010, 09:06AM
bkap wrote ...
paper targets.......
paper targets.......
Rong, that's a cardboard box. The target just happened to get in the way.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Thu Aug 05 2010, 02:08PM
Way to go Luna. Next time toss out a golf ball and see if you can hit it.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Aug 06 2010, 06:58AM
A question regarding buying:
I have been shopping for my first handgun and have settled on the Ruger SP 101 in .327. (Thanks BKAP!) I have found one in a "local" shop. I can shop online and find it cheaper but once I factor shipping and the dealer fee for handling it, will it be cheaper? Do all shops charge the same fee to receive a gun or is it a free market there?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Aug 06 2010, 07:04AM
socal, ask before you commit about there fees they will be different from on shop to another, good choice, now remember I change the springs in mine so the one you buy will have stiffer springs in it. My trigger was lighter then the factory will be.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Aug 06 2010, 07:05AM
and if you want help changing them I'm here to help ya.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Aug 06 2010, 07:43AM
Bmatheny wrote ...
Way to go Luna. Next time toss out a golf ball and see if you can hit it.
Way to go Luna. Next time toss out a golf ball and see if you can hit it.
Do you have a bat that I can borrow?
I did some "moving, stop, draw, aim & fire 2-3 rounds" as the next step - as I have been mostly working on consistent trigger pulls up to this point.
Boy, that's a whole new story! Its almost like starting all over again.
I have some DVDs by Clint Smith (Thunder Ranch) that are really, really excellent. He is also practically a neighbor - they were mailed to me from my own zip code with a handwritten note from him. His facility, Thunder Ranch, where he also has a home, is about 60 miles from here.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Fri Aug 06 2010, 08:39AM
I'll be off the mountain for the weekend, maybe I'll do some gun shopping!
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Aug 06 2010, 09:14AM
Benny (N6BWX) wrote ...
I'll be off the mountain for the weekend, maybe I'll do some gun shopping!
I'll be off the mountain for the weekend, maybe I'll do some gun shopping!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Aug 06 2010, 12:59PM
game time;
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Aug 06 2010, 02:31PM
Uh Ohhhh! That's TOOO fun!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 05:32PM
That game's a hoot. Purchased a new 9mm dtl over the weekend, can't wait to shoot it. Will report back when I get it, the reviews on the model I bought are impeccable.
Re: Gun ownership
Craig ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 06:05PM
Picture please?
Benny (N6BWX) wrote ...
That game's a hoot. Purchased a new 9mm dtl over the weekend, can't wait to shoot it. Will report back when I get it, the reviews on the model I bought are impeccable.
That game's a hoot. Purchased a new 9mm dtl over the weekend, can't wait to shoot it. Will report back when I get it, the reviews on the model I bought are impeccable.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 06:13PM
Craig (KJ6BCM) wrote ...
Picture please?
Picture please?
Benny (N6BWX) wrote ...
That game's a hoot. Purchased a new 9mm dtl over the weekend, can't wait to shoot it. Will report back when I get it, the reviews on the model I bought are impeccable.
That game's a hoot. Purchased a new 9mm dtl over the weekend, can't wait to shoot it. Will report back when I get it, the reviews on the model I bought are impeccable.
Ok, here's one of my sister and I...
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Aug 08 2010, 06:30PM
Benny (N6BWX) wrote ...
Purchased a new 9mm dtl over the weekend, can't wait to shoot it. Will report back when I get it, the reviews on the model I bought are impeccable.
Purchased a new 9mm dtl over the weekend, can't wait to shoot it. Will report back when I get it, the reviews on the model I bought are impeccable.
Congrats!
dtl? What's that or what exactly didja buy?
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Aug 08 2010, 06:30PM
Great Benny, it's going to be a long 10 days! Let me know if/when you want to go shoot!
sportsman club or mitsu plant.
Re: Gun ownership
Craig ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 06:51PM
Is that a 5 caliber sister or a 10 caliber sister?
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Sun Aug 08 2010, 07:06PM
bkap wrote ...
Great Benny, it's going to be a long 10 days! Let me know if/when you want to go shoot!
sportsman club or mitsu plant.
Great Benny, it's going to be a long 10 days! Let me know if/when you want to go shoot!
sportsman club or mitsu plant.
Naw, I have a lot going on next couple of weeks, it'll come fast... It's the new Ruger SR9, looks really clean, has a nice solid feel, it's just like the Glock 17, was a toss up between the two, Ruger happened to be on sale.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Aug 08 2010, 07:39PM
Craig (KJ6BCM) wrote ...
Is that a 5 caliber sister or a 10 caliber sister?
Is that a 5 caliber sister or a 10 caliber sister?
Hitting on Benny's sister?
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Aug 09 2010, 07:06AM
Benny, did you get it at Turner's? I had seen the same gun there last week and nearly went for it.
Re: Gun ownership
Benny ⭐, Mon Aug 09 2010, 08:23AM
Socalman wrote ...
Benny, did you get it at Turner's? I had seen the same gun there last week and nearly went for it.
Benny, did you get it at Turner's? I had seen the same gun there last week and nearly went for it.
Yes.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Mon Aug 09 2010, 08:33AM
nice looking pistola.
how much?
Re: Gun ownership
Igott Mit Uns, Tue Aug 10 2010, 10:29PM
YES YES YES i believe every home in america should have at least 1 gun per room.imagine the drop in crime.who would want to break in when they know there is a great chance of death.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Wed Aug 11 2010, 10:16AM
to those who think we are nuts talking about guns so much here are a few places to look.
I got to thinking about a pepper box. My only expierence was with a 357 4 barrel derringer a friend had.
I have been kicking around a "volley" gun idea that would be very simple but devestating. If I ever build it I will let one of you shoot it the first time if you want?
[Click Here]
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Aug 12 2010, 08:44AM
I know you've seen this before, but it is good to keep it in your mind about what the 2A is for and it is not Duck hunting.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Aug 12 2010, 10:08AM
some think the solution is to ban guns.
It would not have stopped this from happening. And like this woman says. If there had been a gun or two being carried this incident would not have gone the way it did
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Aug 16 2010, 07:38AM
"An armed society is a polite society." I do not know the origin of this quote but I believe it to be true. Keep in mind that the criminal and people bent on doing such things can ALWAYS get their hands on guns and without a 10 day waiting period.
I recall reading an article in the LA Times a few years ago about a particular gang member who would made a business of RENTING guns for crimes.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Wed Aug 18 2010, 06:14AM
Does anyone make the .22 short these days? My old single shot, bolt action .22 rifle could shoot those along with the .22 L and .22 LR. I have looked at several of the online sites and can't find any source of the short.
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Wed Aug 18 2010, 07:03AM
Turners has them sometimes and if you can get the bullets with no copper jacket they make less noise than a BB gun.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Aug 18 2010, 07:05AM
I have see them at wallyworld all the time.
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Wed Aug 18 2010, 10:29PM
SoCalman: I am not trying to change your mind as to weapon of choice. I totally believe in firearms. an unarmed society will soon become slaves. a weapon for the house is a must. a person that goes out an buys a weapon that has never even shot a weapon an plans to carry it for protection needs to consider, are you ready to kill someone by accident or on purpose??? BSF
Re: Gun ownership
PUFF, Thu Aug 19 2010, 07:23AM
Jeweler Shoots 2 Robbery Suspects, 1 Dies
Updated: Thursday, 19 Aug 2010, 7:12 AM PDT
Published : Thursday, 19 Aug 2010, 7:12 AM PDT
Text Story by:
Associated Press
Posted by: Dennis Lovelace
Los Angeles - A Southern California jewelry store owner shot two of four robbery suspects, killing one of them, after they invaded his Wilmington business.
Los Angeles police Officer Karen Rayner says four men tried to rob Rios Jewelry on Wednesday evening and the store owner opened fire. One man is dead, another is hospitalized in critical condition and a third was arrested.
The fourth suspect fled and has eluded capture.
Detective Gus Villanueva says the Wilmington Town Square shopping area was busy with shoppers at the time of the attempted robbery.
The store owner wasn't hurt.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Thu Aug 19 2010, 07:44AM
BSF wrote ...
SoCalman: I am not trying to change your mind as to weapon of choice. I totally believe in firearms. an unarmed society will soon become slaves. a weapon for the house is a must. a person that goes out an buys a weapon that has never even shot a weapon an plans to carry it for protection needs to consider, are you ready to kill someone by accident or on purpose??? BSF
SoCalman: I am not trying to change your mind as to weapon of choice. I totally believe in firearms. an unarmed society will soon become slaves. a weapon for the house is a must. a person that goes out an buys a weapon that has never even shot a weapon an plans to carry it for protection needs to consider, are you ready to kill someone by accident or on purpose??? BSF
I would not use a .22 for home/self defense! The whole idea of the .22 short was for messing with the little varmints. Right now the primary HD weapon is a Mossberg 590 with #1 buckshot, loaded and ready to go. All I have to do is grab the gun and rack the pump. We also have an AK-47 clone of high quality. Several 10 round mags are loaded with 7.62X39 JHP and ready for action. I am searching for a .327 federal magnum. That will be a fine gun for the wife to handle. Start her out on little .32 ammo and work up to the .327 magnum loads.
Am I prepared to take a life? I am more concerned about civil unrest then an intruder.
I have given thought to applying for a concealed carry permit, but since I am a resident of LA County the odds of my getting one are slim and none. The majority of CC permits in LA County have gone to residents of Beverly Hills and Palos Verdes. Go figure, crime in those areas is pretty low.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Aug 19 2010, 08:04AM
while I am dead set against killing tree rats. What I used for ground squirells and gophers was my 357. Shooting 38's I removed most of the powder which gave you a heavy slug that did not carry and was very quiet
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Thu Aug 19 2010, 09:16PM
Socalman wrote ...
Does anyone make the .22 short these days? My old single shot, bolt action .22 rifle could shoot those along with the .22 L and .22 LR. I have looked at several of the online sites and can't find any source of the short.
Does anyone make the .22 short these days? My old single shot, bolt action .22 rifle could shoot those along with the .22 L and .22 LR. I have looked at several of the online sites and can't find any source of the short.
My Lake Elsinore Walmart carries them!
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Thu Aug 19 2010, 09:25PM
Socalman: As I said my interest is not in your weapon of choice. I was trying to get you to think about the results when someone dies either by accident or on purpose, its not plesant for either the family of the deceased or the individual that pulled the trigger. several of my friends have killed others in the military, they were well trained an doing a job for their country. I know a few of you that use SoCal have friends like mine an a high persentage suffered from the demons of their past from occasionally to almost every night. In almost every case its from killing the enemy an some from almost being killed or tortured I only have a couple of friends left from that group, one is realitively ok the other one lives on drugs furnished by the VA. since you have plans to obtain a CCW for yourself an possibly as you indicated your wife also, just give it some serious thaught. The many of the others on socal have been handling guns since they were kids. I am just trying to get you to think this out carefully. guns are an exelent form of recreation as well as for self defense. bsf
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Thu Aug 19 2010, 09:55PM
Socalman, you might want to give these a try, [Click Here].
If they are anything like there the original Colibri in .22 Short, they will be perfect for rodent control. The original Colibri were no louder than my old Crosman CO2 powered .22 pellet clip repeater and very accurate out of old H&R 9 shot 4" revolver.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Aug 20 2010, 07:21AM
BSF wrote ...
Socalman: As I said my interest is not in your weapon of choice. I was trying to get you to think about the results when someone dies either by accident or on purpose, its not plesant for either the family of the deceased or the individual that pulled the trigger. several of my friends have killed others in the military, they were well trained an doing a job for their country. I know a few of you that use SoCal have friends like mine an a high persentage suffered from the demons of their past from occasionally to almost every night. In almost every case its from killing the enemy an some from almost being killed or tortured I only have a couple of friends left from that group, one is realitively ok the other one lives on drugs furnished by the VA. since you have plans to obtain a CCW for yourself an possibly as you indicated your wife also, just give it some serious thaught. The many of the others on socal have been handling guns since they were kids. I am just trying to get you to think this out carefully. guns are an exelent form of recreation as well as for self defense. bsf
Socalman: As I said my interest is not in your weapon of choice. I was trying to get you to think about the results when someone dies either by accident or on purpose, its not plesant for either the family of the deceased or the individual that pulled the trigger. several of my friends have killed others in the military, they were well trained an doing a job for their country. I know a few of you that use SoCal have friends like mine an a high persentage suffered from the demons of their past from occasionally to almost every night. In almost every case its from killing the enemy an some from almost being killed or tortured I only have a couple of friends left from that group, one is realitively ok the other one lives on drugs furnished by the VA. since you have plans to obtain a CCW for yourself an possibly as you indicated your wife also, just give it some serious thaught. The many of the others on socal have been handling guns since they were kids. I am just trying to get you to think this out carefully. guns are an exelent form of recreation as well as for self defense. bsf
Well stated. I believe all gun owners "fear" this side of the responsibility of owning a gun. But I also believe "if push came to shove", many of us would decide it is better to be able to protect myself and my family than to become a "statistic of violence".
My Father hated guns, until the time he felt he needed one. He was in the AirForce and is fully capable of handling guns. He just thought they were not needed as he grew up (which is probably true for where he grew up and the time). But a number of years back, as he was working in South Central LA, he came to me and asked if he could have one of my guns for protection. Of course I said YES.
As they saying goes, it's better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Aug 20 2010, 08:42AM
I hate fire extinguishers, they stub my toes, I hate spare tires they take up room in the trunk, I hate band-aids they take up space in the med cabinet.
But if i ever need them i will use them and be glad i have them.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Fri Aug 20 2010, 09:14AM
I fear having to defend myself against an unwarranted civil suit brought by a surviving scumbag or his family more than anything else.
But that is the price that one must risk paying versus potentially becoming a statistic.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Aug 20 2010, 09:49AM
Luna wrote ...
I fear having to defend myself against an unwarranted civil suit brought by a surviving scumbag or his family more than anything else.
But that is the price that one must risk paying versus potentially becoming a statistic.
I fear having to defend myself against an unwarranted civil suit brought by a surviving scumbag or his family more than anything else.
But that is the price that one must risk paying versus potentially becoming a statistic.
AMEN!
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Fri Aug 20 2010, 06:28PM
RubiCrawlerLJ wrote ...
AMEN!
Luna wrote ...
I fear having to defend myself against an unwarranted civil suit brought by a surviving scumbag or his family more than anything else.
But that is the price that one must risk paying versus potentially becoming a statistic.
I fear having to defend myself against an unwarranted civil suit brought by a surviving scumbag or his family more than anything else.
But that is the price that one must risk paying versus potentially becoming a statistic.
AMEN!
One survivor, one story.
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Fri Aug 20 2010, 10:24PM
Their is no question about self defense, everyone is entitled to protect themselves an their loved ones. I grew up with guns, all of my children grew up with guns, some have purchased their wepons of choice one only has a gun because I gave it to her, we are now teaching the grandchildren how to shoot.in my opinion 22s are for plinking,practice an shooting an ocasional varment. my personal choice of carry is a 45 auto. BSF
Re: Gun ownership
Barnett, Wed Aug 25 2010, 07:59AM
I can't beleive y'all kept this thread alive for 93 pages. I guess when you're talking about your God given rights, we all have alot to say... Here's a story you might enjoy...
Sometimes I practice "Open Carry" especially when I know that I'll be in a crappy neighborhood.
Last spring I was looking for a Tea Party event to attend on Tax Day. I have a beautiful Gasden flag that I like to wave. I settled on the rally at San Bernardino City Hall. If you know the area, it is decidedly a crappy neighborhood, so I took the trusty Beretta with me. Besides feeling safer, I was making a political statement that day anyway.
When I arrived, I strapped on my pistol, unfurled my flag, and joined the crowd. I met, and had conversations with lots of people. Nobody even mentioned the gun on my hip.
After awhile I was approached by a young Deputy Sheriff.
He said " Excuse me sir, I see that you are carrying a weapon"
"Yes sir" I smiled at him and waved my flag some more.
"uh... Why are you carrying the weapon sir?"
"Well sir, I came out here today to excercise my rights, I reckon I'll excercise all of them"
"Uh... Okay... Do you have a permit for that gun?
"Sir, I am openly carrying my weapon in plain view in accordance with the law, Do I NEED to have a permit?"
"uh... Oh well, I guess not...
I smiled at him and waved my flag some more.
"uh... excuse me, do you have some ID?"
"Deputy, Have I given you reasonable suspicion to believe that I have committed any crimes?"
"Uh... well no, I guess not."
"Then do I NEED to show you my ID?
"uh... well no."
"Sir, would you like to inspect my weapon to make sure that it's unloaded? the law allows you to do that".
"uh... yes... right".
He took my Berretta from its' holster, racked the slide, inspected the weapon, and returned it to my holster.
"Thank you Deputy"
"Okay... but you're not carrying any ammunition right?"
"Well yes sir I am, I have two fully loaded magazines right here on my other hip, just in case I need to fire my weapon".
"uh... well... okay then..."
"Have a nice day Deputy."
"uh... you too sir".
As he walked away scratching his head, the guy I'd been talking to earlier who witnessed the conversation laughed and asked me if that was some sort of Jedi Mind Trick...
The thing is, we all must know our rights, and not be afraid to exercise them regularly. If the Deputy doesn't know my rights, or thinks that I don't know mine, he might violate them, or talk me into giving them up freely. Be proactive, and NEVER EVER give up a single right. The jails are full of people who talked their way into the cell.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Aug 25 2010, 08:26AM
You got that right Bob.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Thu Aug 26 2010, 09:12PM
Barnett wrote ...
I can't beleive y'all kept this thread alive for 93 pages. I guess when you're talking about your God given rights, we all have alot to say... Here's a story you might enjoy...
Sometimes I practice "Open Carry" especially when I know that I'll be in a crappy neighborhood.
Last spring I was looking for a Tea Party event to attend on Tax Day. I have a beautiful Gasden flag that I like to wave. I settled on the rally at San Bernardino City Hall. If you know the area, it is decidedly a crappy neighborhood, so I took the trusty Beretta with me. Besides feeling safer, I was making a political statement that day anyway.
When I arrived, I strapped on my pistol, unfurled my flag, and joined the crowd. I met, and had conversations with lots of people. Nobody even mentioned the gun on my hip.
After awhile I was approached by a young Deputy Sheriff.
He said " Excuse me sir, I see that you are carrying a weapon"
"Yes sir" I smiled at him and waved my flag some more.
"uh... Why are you carrying the weapon sir?"
"Well sir, I came out here today to excercise my rights, I reckon I'll excercise all of them"
"Uh... Okay... Do you have a permit for that gun?
"Sir, I am openly carrying my weapon in plain view in accordance with the law, Do I NEED to have a permit?"
"uh... Oh well, I guess not...
I smiled at him and waved my flag some more.
"uh... excuse me, do you have some ID?"
"Deputy, Have I given you reasonable suspicion to believe that I have committed any crimes?"
"Uh... well no, I guess not."
"Then do I NEED to show you my ID?
"uh... well no."
"Sir, would you like to inspect my weapon to make sure that it's unloaded? the law allows you to do that".
"uh... yes... right".
He took my Berretta from its' holster, racked the slide, inspected the weapon, and returned it to my holster.
"Thank you Deputy"
"Okay... but you're not carrying any ammunition right?"
"Well yes sir I am, I have two fully loaded magazines right here on my other hip, just in case I need to fire my weapon".
"uh... well... okay then..."
"Have a nice day Deputy."
"uh... you too sir".
As he walked away scratching his head, the guy I'd been talking to earlier who witnessed the conversation laughed and asked me if that was some sort of Jedi Mind Trick...
The thing is, we all must know our rights, and not be afraid to exercise them regularly. If the Deputy doesn't know my rights, or thinks that I don't know mine, he might violate them, or talk me into giving them up freely. Be proactive, and NEVER EVER give up a single right. The jails are full of people who talked their way into the cell.
I can't beleive y'all kept this thread alive for 93 pages. I guess when you're talking about your God given rights, we all have alot to say... Here's a story you might enjoy...
Sometimes I practice "Open Carry" especially when I know that I'll be in a crappy neighborhood.
Last spring I was looking for a Tea Party event to attend on Tax Day. I have a beautiful Gasden flag that I like to wave. I settled on the rally at San Bernardino City Hall. If you know the area, it is decidedly a crappy neighborhood, so I took the trusty Beretta with me. Besides feeling safer, I was making a political statement that day anyway.
When I arrived, I strapped on my pistol, unfurled my flag, and joined the crowd. I met, and had conversations with lots of people. Nobody even mentioned the gun on my hip.
After awhile I was approached by a young Deputy Sheriff.
He said " Excuse me sir, I see that you are carrying a weapon"
"Yes sir" I smiled at him and waved my flag some more.
"uh... Why are you carrying the weapon sir?"
"Well sir, I came out here today to excercise my rights, I reckon I'll excercise all of them"
"Uh... Okay... Do you have a permit for that gun?
"Sir, I am openly carrying my weapon in plain view in accordance with the law, Do I NEED to have a permit?"
"uh... Oh well, I guess not...
I smiled at him and waved my flag some more.
"uh... excuse me, do you have some ID?"
"Deputy, Have I given you reasonable suspicion to believe that I have committed any crimes?"
"Uh... well no, I guess not."
"Then do I NEED to show you my ID?
"uh... well no."
"Sir, would you like to inspect my weapon to make sure that it's unloaded? the law allows you to do that".
"uh... yes... right".
He took my Berretta from its' holster, racked the slide, inspected the weapon, and returned it to my holster.
"Thank you Deputy"
"Okay... but you're not carrying any ammunition right?"
"Well yes sir I am, I have two fully loaded magazines right here on my other hip, just in case I need to fire my weapon".
"uh... well... okay then..."
"Have a nice day Deputy."
"uh... you too sir".
As he walked away scratching his head, the guy I'd been talking to earlier who witnessed the conversation laughed and asked me if that was some sort of Jedi Mind Trick...
The thing is, we all must know our rights, and not be afraid to exercise them regularly. If the Deputy doesn't know my rights, or thinks that I don't know mine, he might violate them, or talk me into giving them up freely. Be proactive, and NEVER EVER give up a single right. The jails are full of people who talked their way into the cell.
I am surprised he didn't ask you for ID to confirm you weren't a convicted felon and/or to confirm your firearm was registered to you. Of course, that's assuming he ran the serial number to begin with....and we all know what happens when we assume.
Re: Gun ownership
Barnett, Fri Aug 27 2010, 02:03PM
A cop can demand your ID, or check the serial numbers if he has "reasonable suspition" that you have comitted a crime. Barring that, he can request that you give up those rights all day... aint' going to happen....
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Fri Aug 27 2010, 03:20PM
By you simply exercising your right to "open carry" gives any peace officer enough reaason to detain you, confirm your firearm is not loaded (per 12031 PC) and confirm your identity as the registered owner of said firearm.
As far as openly carrying in a "decidely crappy neighborhood" of San Bernardino as you said is an unwise decision in my opinion.
Do you really think some hardcore gang banger is going to care if you have a firearm on your hip? They are not as stupid as you might think, and some actually know the law. Some might know you can't have that thing loaded and decide to screw with you on purpose, with their loaded and concealed firearms. I highly doubt you can put a loaded magazine in your weapon when they have a gun stuck in your face. It's like taking a knife to a gun fight.
But then again, what do I know. It's just my opinion. You know what they say about opinions. They are just like buttholes: Everyone has one and they all stink!! My time in L.E. and having been in an OIS probably doesn't mean much to most people.
I say get a CCW so you can (legally) carry a loaded, concealed firearm, so you can have the element of surprise.
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Aug 27 2010, 03:25PM
seems to me in that situation you might get away with it. But I think I would have to have a lawyer tied to me to tick off a cop. It is easy to find a reason to ask for ID. I would think they could always ask for ID but you do have an interesting argument if it went any farther.
I am sure you look like somebody that is a suspect in something or other
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Aug 27 2010, 06:21PM
rolncode2892 makes a good point, going into a bad neighborhood with an empty sidearm is inviting harassment from LEOs and worse from the dirt bags that you are trying to protect yourself from.
Your example reminds me of the debacle that took place after 1992's Hurricane Andrew hit South Florida and the news media found it pertinent to inform the public that the National Guard was patrolling their ravaged neighborhoods with fully automatic weapons minus ammunition due to a logistical hang up. It only took a day for the dirt bags to start robbing the Guardsmen of their M-16's.
Re: Gun ownership
rolncode2892, Fri Aug 27 2010, 08:59PM
RubiCrawlerLJ wrote ...
rolncode2892 makes a good point, going into a bad neighborhood with an empty sidearm is inviting harassment from LEOs and worse from the dirt bags that you are trying to protect yourself from.
Your example reminds me of the debacle that took place after 1992's Hurricane Andrew hit South Florida and the news media found it pertinent to inform the public that the National Guard was patrolling their ravaged neighborhoods with fully automatic weapons minus ammunition due to a logistical hang up. It only took a day for the dirt bags to start robbing the Guardsmen of their M-16's.
rolncode2892 makes a good point, going into a bad neighborhood with an empty sidearm is inviting harassment from LEOs and worse from the dirt bags that you are trying to protect yourself from.
Your example reminds me of the debacle that took place after 1992's Hurricane Andrew hit South Florida and the news media found it pertinent to inform the public that the National Guard was patrolling their ravaged neighborhoods with fully automatic weapons minus ammunition due to a logistical hang up. It only took a day for the dirt bags to start robbing the Guardsmen of their M-16's.
OOOPPPSSS!!!! I can hear the news media sounding like Steve Erkel, "Did I do that?!"
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Mon Aug 30 2010, 09:53PM
YEP.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Sep 02 2010, 12:25PM
Chuck tells it like it is, register to VOTE~
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Barnett, Thu Sep 02 2010, 09:45PM
The cops can ask for ID, but you are not obliged to show it to them without reasonable suspition. Exercising you open carry rights does not constitute reasonable suspition. They are allowed to inspect the weapon only to insure that it is unloaded in compliance with the law.
As far as getting acosted by a dirtbag, It could happen the way you say, I can draw and lock and load in about 1.5 seconds. The dirtbag better shoot straight.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Sep 03 2010, 05:55AM
Barnett wrote ...
The cops can ask for ID, but you are not obliged to show it to them without reasonable suspition. Exercising you open carry rights does not constitute reasonable suspition. They are allowed to inspect the weapon only to insure that it is unloaded in compliance with the law.
As far as getting acosted by a dirtbag, It could happen the way you say, I can draw and lock and load in about 1.5 seconds. The dirtbag better shoot straight.
The cops can ask for ID, but you are not obliged to show it to them without reasonable suspition. Exercising you open carry rights does not constitute reasonable suspition. They are allowed to inspect the weapon only to insure that it is unloaded in compliance with the law.
As far as getting acosted by a dirtbag, It could happen the way you say, I can draw and lock and load in about 1.5 seconds. The dirtbag better shoot straight.
Unfortunately Barnett, not everyone that "open carries" is that proficient with their firearm! Hell, even some of my LEO co-workers are not that proficient and they get monthly training and range time.
Sometimes I think that the public will be better served if they just carried nightsticks based on the results of the LEO involved shooting investigations. Based on these reports, when multiple officers are involved, tens of rounds are fired and their intended target(s) gets hit at an average ratio of 1:5! That folks is just downright scary!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Fri Sep 03 2010, 08:49AM
RubiCrawlerLJ wrote ...
Unfortunately Barnett, not everyone that "open carries" is that proficient with their firearm! Hell, even some of my LEO co-workers are not that proficient and they get monthly training and range time.
Sometimes I think that the public will be better served if they just carried nightsticks based on the results of the LEO involved shooting investigations. Based on these reports, when multiple officers are involved, tens of rounds are fired and their intended target(s) gets hit at an average ratio of 1:5! That folks is just downright scary!
Barnett wrote ...
The cops can ask for ID, but you are not obliged to show it to them without reasonable suspition. Exercising you open carry rights does not constitute reasonable suspition. They are allowed to inspect the weapon only to insure that it is unloaded in compliance with the law.
As far as getting acosted by a dirtbag, It could happen the way you say, I can draw and lock and load in about 1.5 seconds. The dirtbag better shoot straight.
The cops can ask for ID, but you are not obliged to show it to them without reasonable suspition. Exercising you open carry rights does not constitute reasonable suspition. They are allowed to inspect the weapon only to insure that it is unloaded in compliance with the law.
As far as getting acosted by a dirtbag, It could happen the way you say, I can draw and lock and load in about 1.5 seconds. The dirtbag better shoot straight.
Unfortunately Barnett, not everyone that "open carries" is that proficient with their firearm! Hell, even some of my LEO co-workers are not that proficient and they get monthly training and range time.
Sometimes I think that the public will be better served if they just carried nightsticks based on the results of the LEO involved shooting investigations. Based on these reports, when multiple officers are involved, tens of rounds are fired and their intended target(s) gets hit at an average ratio of 1:5! That folks is just downright scary!
Sounds like me shooting at golfballs. 1 in 5 shots would be considered GREAT.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Sep 03 2010, 09:55AM
Bmatheny wrote ...
Sounds like me shooting at golfballs. 1 in 5 shots would be considered GREAT.
Sounds like me shooting at golfballs. 1 in 5 shots would be considered GREAT.
I hear you, but your golf balls are not in front of innocent bystanders!
Our investigators hate having to track down all the missed shots and fill out the subsequent damaged property reports. Not because they are lazy, it is because it is downright embarrassing!
Thankfully, most of the time its just property damage and not injured or dead bystanders that we have to contend with!
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Fri Sep 03 2010, 04:16PM
RubiCrawlerLJ wrote ...
I hear you, but your golf balls are not in front of innocent bystanders!
Our investigators hate having to track down all the missed shots and fill out the subsequent damaged property reports. Not because they are lazy, it is because it is downright embarrassing!
Thankfully, most of the time its just property damage and not injured or dead bystanders that we have to contend with!
Bmatheny wrote ...
Sounds like me shooting at golfballs. 1 in 5 shots would be considered GREAT.
Sounds like me shooting at golfballs. 1 in 5 shots would be considered GREAT.
I hear you, but your golf balls are not in front of innocent bystanders!
Our investigators hate having to track down all the missed shots and fill out the subsequent damaged property reports. Not because they are lazy, it is because it is downright embarrassing!
Thankfully, most of the time its just property damage and not injured or dead bystanders that we have to contend with!
An old friend of mine was with LAPD Metro Div. for many years. One night we sat around and he related some stories of how those guys have to track down every single shot. RCJ, if you have to do that kind of work my sympathy.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Sep 04 2010, 10:21AM
Boner!
Re: Gun ownership
Sunni (KK6UDF), Sat Sep 04 2010, 01:30PM
Absolutely, positively, no doubt about it, YES!!!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sat Sep 04 2010, 03:31PM
Luna wrote ...
Boner!
Boner!
Why is that bear pissing on that trout?? Is that an Oregon thing?
BTW, I would probably be there 3 times a month.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Sat Sep 04 2010, 04:08PM
An Oregon "thing" would be the trout blowing the bear :-)
I'm just sayin
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Sep 04 2010, 04:46PM
Rod the Photog wrote ...
An Oregon "thing" would be the trout blowing the bear :-)
I'm just sayin
An Oregon "thing" would be the trout blowing the bear :-)
I'm just sayin
Damn straight!
We prefer that the local wildlife get a few freebies rather than The People get royally bent by the rulers...and still have a $20 BILLION deficit. Enjoying that 8.75% sales tax?
Just sayin'...
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sat Sep 04 2010, 05:42PM
OK...so I am going to send in my membership to NRA. It seems to include a membership rag as part of the membership. Anyone give me your take on AMERICAN RIFLEMAN; AMERICAN HUNTER; AMERICA'S FIRST FREEDOM. What is the difference among the mags? The title tells a little but not much!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Sep 04 2010, 06:03PM
AMERICAN RIFLEMAN
nuff said
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sat Sep 04 2010, 07:22PM
I prefer Gun Owners of America [Click Here] over Wayne LaPierre's NRA.
Like the Republicans, they too have sold their soul to the political machine and lost sight of their mission.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Sep 04 2010, 08:05PM
Rubie, he's looking for the free issue not spending anymore$$$
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sat Sep 04 2010, 08:07PM
On another note, we talked before about air(pellet) guns, well I'm going to pull the trigger and get one, In the lead is the Gamo whisper, any comments on good/bad..
Re: Gun ownership
BSF, Sat Sep 04 2010, 08:38PM
Pelit guns leave a lot to be desired, unless your shootin in the back yard or into a log in the fireplace, BSF
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Sat Sep 04 2010, 08:56PM
Luna wrote ...
Boner!
Boner!
That is the coolest sign ever! Guns, ammo, fishing tackle and ADULT BEVERAGES! Not to mention a bear having relations with a trout! Awesome!
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sat Sep 04 2010, 09:12PM
I am partial to Gamo and RWS/Diana airguns since I grew up hunting rabbits, doves and quail with them in Spain.
That being said, I owned my share of airguns from Beeman, Crosman, Daisy, Gamo and Diana over the years, unless their craftsmanship and accuracy has changed drastically over the past few years, you cannot go wrong by choosing a Gamo airgun.
I have to ask, have you shoot a >1,000 fps break open barrel airgun before? If not you may be surprised by its recoil and report.
Do report back and let us know how well the suppressor works on the Whisper.
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sat Sep 04 2010, 09:17PM
Oden wrote ...
That is the coolest sign ever! Guns, ammo, fishing tackle and ADULT BEVERAGES! Not to mention a bear having relations with a trout! Awesome!
Luna wrote ...
Boner!
Boner!
That is the coolest sign ever! Guns, ammo, fishing tackle and ADULT BEVERAGES! Not to mention a bear having relations with a trout! Awesome!
The store is only 28 miles from home!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Sep 05 2010, 04:07AM
maybe hooters should buy them out and roll them into theretheme. Can't think of much else a guy would want.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Sep 05 2010, 07:51AM
Luna wrote ...
The store is only 28 miles from home!
Oden wrote ...
That is the coolest sign ever! Guns, ammo, fishing tackle and ADULT BEVERAGES! Not to mention a bear having relations with a trout! Awesome!
Luna wrote ...
Boner!
Boner!
That is the coolest sign ever! Guns, ammo, fishing tackle and ADULT BEVERAGES! Not to mention a bear having relations with a trout! Awesome!
The store is only 28 miles from home!
and lunny has a date with a fish.......................
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Sep 05 2010, 08:05AM
bkap wrote ...
and lunny has a date with a fish.......................
and lunny has a date with a fish.......................
Watch it... I'll remember carp like that the next time you want something..like after your whacked out new ammo law goes into effect...
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun Sep 05 2010, 04:13PM
Carp? ....as in Fish?
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Sun Sep 05 2010, 04:15PM
bkap wrote ...
On another note, we talked before about air(pellet) guns, well I'm going to pull the trigger and get one, In the lead is the Gamo whisper, any comments on good/bad..
On another note, we talked before about air(pellet) guns, well I'm going to pull the trigger and get one, In the lead is the Gamo whisper, any comments on good/bad..
If it is the one I was reading about recently, good choice! 1,320 fps will teach the squirrels a lesson!
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Mon Sep 06 2010, 01:23PM
Has anybody gone to the BBV Sportsman's club this weekend?
I went today and they were closed.
Usually they're open on monday when we have three day holiday weekends.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Mon Sep 06 2010, 01:33PM
It's all volunteer. So it may be that an authorized person was not available on a holiday weekend.
Re: Gun ownership
Mtngoat John⭐, Mon Sep 06 2010, 02:30PM
Pretty sure that is where Oden went Saturday.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Mon Sep 06 2010, 02:53PM
Oh was going to go with family but slept in, sorry it was closed.
Re: Gun ownership
Rod the Photog, Mon Sep 06 2010, 03:01PM
I went Saturday and it was open. Got there right at 10am and then shot a few rounds of trap.
Rod
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Mon Sep 06 2010, 05:24PM
I thought I'd wait till monday so there would be less of a crowd.
Oh Well, I'll be there next weekend.
Re: Gun ownership
Socalman, Mon Sep 06 2010, 05:41PM
Odd....I could hear someone shooting this am. I figured it was was from the club and the atmospheric conditions just allowed it to carry as sometimes happens. Forest land is about a block away so it could have been someone shooting there,
Re: Gun ownership
Oden, Mon Sep 06 2010, 06:13PM
I spoke to them Saturday morning about Monday (yes they are usually open), and Sterling told me they would be closed Monday due to not having enough staff available to man the range. It takes 3-4 people now to operate because so many people are using it, which is good. But the staff is limited and they would like to spend time with their families as well. I completely understand where they are coming from.
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Tue Sep 07 2010, 04:44PM
Interesting reading....
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Tue Sep 07 2010, 07:13PM
there was also a bill to require registration of long guns that was left to die.
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Thu Sep 09 2010, 05:33PM
see more Very Demotivational
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Fri Sep 10 2010, 12:50PM
I wonder if bacon grease is as hard to remove from a firearm as cosmoline?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Sep 10 2010, 01:47PM
why would you want to?
stops rust.
Might even smell as good as hoppes
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Sep 17 2010, 09:06AM
I think it's time for one of these events!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Sep 17 2010, 10:33AM
funny
but I cringed when he placed the anvil on another anvil with gunpowder in between. Not the brightest thing to do
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Fri Sep 17 2010, 01:11PM
73-year-old collars intruder at Spartanburg home
By Gary Glancy
gary.glancy©shj.com
Published: Monday, June 28, 2010 at 3:15 a.m.
You don't tug on Superman's cape; you don't spit into the wind. You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger, and you don't mess around with ... Ken.
That's the lesson an intruder learned Saturday when 73-year-old Ken Easler surprised the unwanted visitor. Easler had just returned to the rural home he owns with his wife, Dot, on Jones Road near Converse around 11 a.m. Saturday.
When Easler walked through his unlocked front door, he heard someone upstairs and knew it wasn't Dot, whom he had just left at the Hub City Farmers Market, where she was selling fresh produce from the couple's farm.
Easler immediately went for his 9mm Ruger P85 handgun, loaded a round into it and went to the stairwell near the front door, where Easler said the intruder was sneaking down — until he saw the gun.
“When I jacked that round in the chamber, he sat down and was holding onto the rail,” Easler said. “I know he was scared.
“I told him, ‘You do anything sudden, you're liable to end up dead.' ”
The man complied, and Easler held him at gunpoint in a bathroom off the kitchen until deputies from the Spartanburg County Sheriff's Office arrived about 10 minutes later.
Douglas Michael Nickerson, 24, of 1530 Old Pacolet Road, Spartanburg, was arrested on the scene and charged with second-degree burglary, non-violent, and petit larceny, value less than $2,000. He remained in jail Sunday night in lieu of $7,500 bond.
Easler said he's glad he wasn't forced to shoot Nickerson, but he hopes his actions will lead to a conviction that will keep Nickerson off the streets. It is the 11th arrest for Nickerson in the past two and a half years, with charges ranging from criminal domestic violence to trespassing to drug possession, according to online jail records. Nickerson also was charged with second-degree burglary — in addition to driving under suspension and reckless driving — in November.
“This ain't the first time he's come inside somebody's house,” Easler said. “If they don't send this guy to jail, the next guy may not be as tough as I am, and he could hurt somebody.”
Sheriff Chuck Wright said Sunday night that while he was not familiar with the case, he was proud of Easler when told what Easler had done.
”That's why we have (guns), to protect ourselves with,” Wright said. “I don't have any issues with what that gentleman did. I think he did a good job. ... That's the reason why good, honest citizens have a right to bear arms.”
Staying calm
It all started like any typical Saturday, with Dot Easler arriving at the farmers' market around 7 a.m. and Ken working on the farm, which sits on the couple's 13-acre property, just down the hill from where Ken grew up. Ken Easler left the home around 9:30 or so to deliver an order of 10 dozen ears of corn to the market.
After returning to gather two baskets of green tomatoes, Easler went inside the home to get a drink when he made the unpleasant discovery.
“Thank God (Nickerson) wasn't armed,” Dot Easler said. “If he had been armed, I think Ken would have shot him.”
Her husband said Nickerson, as he was sneaking down the stairs and saw Easler with the gun, told him, “Don't shoot me; I just had to go to the bathroom.”
“If he had been bigger and more intimidating,” Easler said, “I probably would have shot him on the stairs, but I stayed calm and didn't get nervous or anything.”
Easler knows how to handle a gun. He began as a youngster when he hunted in the area. In later years, the Easlers traveled extensively for Dot's wholesale fabric business, often carrying lots of cash, so both of them had permits to carry a firearm for personal protection.
“I'm a good shot,” Dot said with a chuckle.
Taking control
So is her husband, who said he ordered Nickerson first into the dining room to ask Nickerson if anyone was with him. When Nickerson assured Easler there wasn't — Easler said he promised Nickerson he'd shoot both of them if Nickerson was lying — Easler told Nickerson to move into the kitchen where Easler would use the phone to call 911.
“I told him, ‘If you make a wrong move, you're dead — I'm going to shoot you,' ” Easler said.
Easler said he then made Nickerson go into a small bathroom off the kitchen — about 6 or 7 feet from where Easler was standing — so that he could keep an eye on Nickerson. Easler added that Nickerson pretended like he was going to start crying, then began breathing heavily like he was hyperventilating. He also made a request, Easler said.
“If you just let me go, I'll never do this again,” Easler said Nickerson told him. “And I said, ‘You become a man when you decided to come into this house.' ”
Easler said that while he was kept on the phone by a 911 dispatcher until deputies arrived, Nickerson told him he had been staying at the Motel 6 on Jones Road but was thrown out, so he walked toward the Easlers' home and stopped to use the bathroom.
According to an incident report, deputies found two rolls of 50 one-dollar bills in Nickerson's pants pocket when they arrested him. Easler said he keeps rolls of dollar bills in a downstairs cabinet.
Dot Easler commended the dispatcher for keeping her husband on the phone so the situation could remain calm until deputies arrived.
”I told them I was all right,” Easler said, “but in a second, the situation could change. I was prepared to shoot (Nickerson), but I'm glad I didn't have to shoot him.”
When deputies did arrive, the report states, they found Nickerson lying on the bathroom floor, and they ordered Easler to put down his gun.
While the situation was ultimately resolved without incident, the Easlers say they're thankful no one was hurt.
Dot Easler said someone could have just as easily manhandled a man her husband's age, but the gun saved him in this instance.
“We've got to stand up for ourselves,” said Ken Easler, who later added, “(Nickerson) became 110 percent cooperative when he was looking at that gun.”
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Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Sep 19 2010, 05:09AM
OK I'll be the first to ask it, knowing how our courts and penal system treat repeat offenders why give them another chance to victimize someone else if you are well within your rights to eradicate society of this scourge?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Thu Sep 30 2010, 11:52PM
got this in an email.
It is not a slam dunk but this is something "they" are trying to do to us. Keep an eye on these idiots and make sure your candidates are pro guns.... hell pro constitution.
Subject: Look what's on the 2010 tax return
Verified true on Snopes [Click Here]
Gun owners.... Look what's on the 2010 tax return....
If you have a gun, I hope it isn't registered!
It begins... More Freedom gone.... The right to protect yourself and your family gone! Now ALL GUNS must be listed on your next (2010) tax return!
Senate Bill SB-2099 will require us to put on our 2009 1040 federal tax form all guns that you have or own. It will require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun. This bill was introduced on February 24, 2009, by the Obama staff. BUT, this bill will only become public knowledge 30 days after the new law becomes effective! This is an amendment to the Internal Revenue Act of 1986. This means that the Finance Committee has passed this without the Senate voting on it at all. Trust Obama? You must be kidding!
The full text of the IRS admsntment is on the U.S.Senate homepage: [Click Here]. You can find the bill by doing a search by the bill number, SB-2099. You know who to call; I strongly suggest you do.
Please send a copy of this e-mail to every gun owner you know.
Text of H.R.45 as Introduced in House: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009: [Click Here]
Obama's Congress is now starting on the firearms confiscation bill. If it passes, gun owners will become criminals if you don't fully comply.
It has begun... Whatever Obama's "Secret Master Plan" is... This is just the 'tip of the iceberg!'
Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because the government is trying to fly it under the radar as a 'minor' IRS revision, and, as usual, the 'political' lawmakers did not read this bill before signing and approving it!
To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Goggle HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.
Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless: 1) It is registered 2) You are fingerprinted 3) You supply a current Driver's License 4) You supply your Social Security number 5) You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing. Each update change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25. Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.
There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18. They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 years in prison.
If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this.. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in your family pass this along. This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it.
This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not..
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress) " rel=nofollow [Click Here] :
H.R.45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress [Click Here]
H.R. 45: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (GovTrack.us) [Click Here]
Please..... Copy and send this out to EVERYONE in the USA , whether you support the Right to Bear Arms or are for gun control. We all should have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE!
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Oct 01 2010, 07:58AM
gee It's not even faux news. So it must be true
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Bookworm, Fri Oct 01 2010, 10:58AM
see more Political Pictures
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Fri Oct 01 2010, 11:16AM
when It first came on screen I thought it was a dumb spot to be throwing grenades. Good thing it was not a frag. Maybe that was the lesson to be learned?
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Oct 03 2010, 07:55AM
some think this is fake
looks real to me.
Only I wouldn't think it would peel so much
elmer fudds would just swell up
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
bills grandson, Sun Oct 03 2010, 08:27AM
interesting site with county closures, and hunting areas. As well as gun laws
[Click Here]
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Oct 03 2010, 08:38AM
bills grandson wrote ...
interesting site with county closures, and hunting areas. As well as gun laws
[Click Here]
interesting site with county closures, and hunting areas. As well as gun laws
[Click Here]
well that just s_cks!
Thanks BG
Re: Gun ownership
BigBearSteve, Sun Oct 03 2010, 09:22AM
Read ordinance 22.0113.... Throwing of Missiles.
And 22.0114.... the penalty
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Sun Oct 03 2010, 05:45PM
Found Elsewhere:
From "Sarge"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
Sarge is a honest, law abiding citizen as you all know. But even such a impecable person as he can run afowl of the law at times.
It happened like this:
In the City of Denver, Colorado where Sarge lives, they have some really stupid laws. Anti-gun laws if you may. One says a person can not carry a firearm in his car for self defense.
Not only is this allowed by the United States Constitution but also by the State of Colorado Constitution. But Denver has always thought they were above the laws. So the time came when a officer of Denver Police stopped Sarge on a routine holiday stop. And saw a gun. Not just one gun but 3 guns. And he promply arrested Sarge and confiscated his guns. A week later Sarge arrived at the court house with his lawyer and the judge was forced to return the guns and drop the charges.
So far so good.
If you have never had your self in a situation like this then you do not realize what you have to go through to get your own property back. That should have never been taken in the first case.
First you have to get a copy of the Judges decision, (you pay for it too) then you have to go to the Police Headquarters and fill out forms. You must have copies of who you are, (notorized yet) your birth certificate, your drivers license and probably a letter from your mother and a priest too. All this takes about 4 hours. Most of it sitting and waiting for some one to decide to sign the papers and release the property. (you can't even dare leave to put quarters in the parking meter)
Finally your name is called and you go to the property room and turn over all the forms including the release form. From here on out it becomes ridiculous. In the room is a little 'dumb waiter' like elevator. The police clerk pushed the button and slowly the elevator creaks up from the basement. Then they put the forms in the basket and pushes the button again. Slowly slowly it goes out of sight. (yes we are talking in modern times, like the year 2001.)
After you wait about another hour the little elevator slowly comes up from the depths and on it was Sarge's metal box with the three pistols inside. Sarge reaches out for his property and the Officer in charge says "NO".
"NO?" what do you mean NO?" says Sarge.
"You can't carry that gun box full of guns out of here, it would be carrying a concealed weapon." the Officer states.
"WHAT?" shrieks Sarge. "Well how in the hell am I going to get these guns to my car, then?"
"Now calm down Mr. Sarge, here is what you must carry the guns out of the building and to your vehical with." replies the Officer
And he hands the stupefied Sarge a paper sack that has printed on it
FIREARMS IN HERE
Yes that is right.
Sarge just stands there staring at the sack in amazement.
"You want me to take my guns out of this locked metal box and put them in this paper sack that says
FIREARMS IN HERE?"
And this is safer than carrying the guns to my car in a locked steel box?" asks Sarge.
"Civilization as we know it is doomed," intones Sarge as he unlocks the metal box and transfers the three pistols to the paper sack.
"Now I am totally legal, right?" asks Sarge.
"Thank you for breaking the law in our city," says the Officer and holds the door open for Sarge. "Please come back"
Sarge walks out the front door and down the sidewalk feeling like a fool carrying a paper sack that says Firearms in Here.
POOF! and a little guy is sitting on Sarge's shoulder. Sarge peeks out of the corner of his eye and sees the red outfit, long pointy tail, horns and evil grin.
"HEH HEH HEH" chuckles the little devil, "go ahead Sarge and do it"
"Do what?" says Sarge
"Don't give me that 'do what' business, I am the devil, I know what you are thinking. Go ahead, do it." he grins.
POOF! Oh Oh, Sarge looks over at his other shoulder and sure enough there is a little woman wearing white, beautiful brown hair with a gold ring on her head and little wings.
"AND IT LOOKS JUST LIKE TIGGS"
'"NO Sarge don't do it!" says the little angel.
Damn! it is Tiggs! I'd know that voice anywhere.
"Don't do it Sarge, Lt. Linda will be so mad, she will whopp you!"
said the little Tiggs Angel.
"Sarge what is there to worry," says the Devil, "Linda is a little woman and she can't hit very hard." "I will keep her busy with temptations and she will never know." he slyly spoke.
"You go messing with Lt. Linda and I will knock you right off my shoulder into 10 miles of rush hour traffic you little SOB," Sarge shouts.
"Sorry, I didn't mean that, but what is there to worry about. You got the law on your side." he sneers
"No Sarge, don't do it. It will break Linda's heart when she hears about it on the TV, scare her to death, it will!" says Tiggs Angel. And if she finds out you did it she will shoot you with her .38 too!" pouts Tiggs Angel.
"Ha! devil you forgot about her .38, she will shoot us both."
says Sarge.
POOF! And the devil is gone.
"Sarge, you are not going to do it are you?" begs a petulant Tiggs Angel.
Sarge smiles and holds the paper sack up high as he walks down the street. Ahh, he see's a lady coming toward him. She has a severe hairdo, wears a man's type suit and is carrying a briefcase, Perfect! She has just got to be a Liberated woman and probably a lawyer to boot. Maybe even a Democrat!
"GOOD AFTERNOON, I HAVE GUNS IN HERE!"
Sarge thrusts the paper sack with it's message easily seen into her face.
"AHHHHHHH!" She screams and runs across the street, letting out little shrieks, losing one high heel and doing a strange little hop, clump hop, clump as she runs away.
A smiling Sarge continues onward. "HELLO I HAVE GUNS IN HERE!" He anounces to the next person coming up the sidewalk. That little business man looking mouse dives for the nearest door.
"HELLO, HOW ARE YOU, I HAVE GUNS IN HERE!"
echos down the street as Sarge marches his merry way. From the roof tops it must have looked like Sarge had a magic wand in his hand. As he advanced the wave of people split and rolled across the street on both sides like the wake on the stern of a heavy cruiser.
By the time he had made it two blocks he also had picked up a couple of guys in MossyOak camo that were making bids for the three guns. Sarge explained what he was doing, and the two gunowners laughed and decided to join the parade. Soon they were spread out ahead, shouting, "That guy has some guns!"
It took two trips around the block where the truck was parked before the sirens finally began to sound. Also from the direction of the Police Headquarters came the sound of running flat feet.
In Denver's traffic the cops on foot had the advantage and the officer from the front desk reached Sarge first.
"Hello Officer, I have guns in here, see it says so right on this sack." Sarge announced.
The Officer slid to a stop and stared at the sack, then looked at Sarge. "OH you again!" he declaired. "What are you doing threatening people with a gun?"
"I am not threatening anyone, see the staples you put on the sack are still here." " I am just telling everyone, that in this wonderful country of ours a citizen can walk down the street with a gun in a sack and be entirely legal." said Sarge.
"I can walk down the street with my guns in this sack and be entirely legal can't I? You told me so, didn't you?" This is the sack you gave me to carry my guns down the street and be perfectly legal, irregardless of the fact that it says right here in large letters
FIREARMS IN HERE
"Isn't that right Officer?"
The officer shook his head and slapped his forehead. "Why me," he groaned.
"I am right, aren't I, Officer?"
"Officer, you look a little peaked, maybe you should get outside more often." Sarge offered.
"Where is your car, sir?" asked the Officer.
"Oh, my White Elephant is right over there, sir." volunteered Sarge.
"White Elephant?" asked the Officer.
"Yes my White Elephant, you know that is what my boys call my White Ford, Econoline, Van, why I remember the day I brought the White Elephant home, the boys were so happy like the first time they shot the neighbors dog, and they............"SHUT UP!""
"Yes sir." said Sarge
"That is your vehicle over there?"
"Yes sir." said Sarge
Grabbing Sarge by the arm the Officer escorted him to the truck.
"Oh heck Officer, the meter ran out and I don't have any coins, you wouldn't have.......
The coins were feed into the slot by 4 officers all trying to be the first one to help.
"Thank you men, you are a honor to your profession." says Sarge as he drives away.
POOF!... "Chicken," The little red guy sneers at Sarge, "you blew it, you had something going, I personally know that if you had held out for 5 more minutes channel 4 News would have been here"
Sarge reaches for the little pest's neck and
POOF!
Sarge the nice guy.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Oct 03 2010, 05:55PM
Re: Gun ownership
Luna, Tue Oct 05 2010, 09:25PM
"If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective."
- Ted Nugent
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Oct 06 2010, 07:23AM
spoons and forks make people fat, ask Rossie O'donnel
Re: Gun ownership
Craig ⭐, Wed Oct 06 2010, 07:48AM
Who needs a spoon and a fork for this?
<---------------------------- --
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Wed Oct 06 2010, 07:52AM
DD w Onion!!!!!!Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Wed Oct 06 2010, 09:44PM
My Brother-in-law just ordered a Mossberg 100 ATR Night Train 2 (.308). Since he does not own a gun safe I get to store it in my gun safe along with his SKS and Mosin-Nagant 1891/30.
I guess I won't need to buy a sniper rifle after all.
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Thu Oct 07 2010, 07:16AM
!t1 !t2Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Oct 10 2010, 08:06AM
YES. I believe it is our duty to be prepared for any nightmare that may happen. We should have learned this from our history classes in 3rd grade.
And for all my friends out there....
Welcome to the bi-annual Machine Gun Shoot at Knob Creek Gun Range in Kentucky
[Click Here]
I wanna go!!
Re: Gun ownership
Bmatheny, Sun Oct 10 2010, 08:08AM
This looks like way too much fun.
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Oct 10 2010, 08:48AM
That would be an extremely fun but very expensive outing!
Re: Gun ownership
Ernest T. Bass, Sun Oct 10 2010, 08:56AM
most of thse guys reload, but man-o-man I'd love to go!!!!
Re: Gun ownership
airattackimages, Sun Oct 10 2010, 05:23PM
Wow, I didn't know Mossberg was into anything except scatterguns. Nice! Whats the reputation on their rifles?
Re: Gun ownership
RubiCrawlerLJ, Sun Oct 10 2010, 10:47PM
airattackimages wrote ...
Wow, I didn't know Mossberg was into anything except scatterguns. Nice! Whats the reputation on their rifles?
Wow, I didn't know Mossberg was into anything except scatterguns. Nice! Whats the reputation on their rifles?
The online forums give the ATR line above average reviews, the Barska 6-24 X 50 scope that they equip the Night Train 2 with on the other hand gets pretty poor reviews. Give me a month or two and I will post how it fares.
Right of the bat I can tell you that I wish that it came with a detachable box magazine and better sling mounts. The sling mounts are part of the synthetic stock and they seem pretty flimsy. I would have also preferred a Hogue Overmold stock instead of a plain synthetic stock but heck, it's my Brother-in-law's not mine!
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